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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > What, Still Here? The General Election Punditry and Numbers Thread

What, Still Here? The General Election Punditry and Numbers Thread
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subego
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Aug 1, 2016, 10:12 PM
 
Hillary got bump.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 06:03 AM
 
I'm kinda having trouble believing it.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 06:04 AM
 
There ya go... numbers and punditry.

/thread
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm kinda having trouble believing it.
Did you seethe difference between the two conventions?
     
BadKosh
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Aug 2, 2016, 09:53 AM
 
interesting that the media didn't show her with any bump even 4 days later.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 10:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Did you seethe
I know some seethed.

Katy Perry > Chachi if that's what you mean.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 10:39 AM
 
Tone is what I mean.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 10:50 AM
 
Was it ultimately that different than any other set of conventions?

Those in power: we're awesome!
Those not in power: the sky is falling!
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 11:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Was it ultimately that different than any other set of conventions?
Yes?
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 11:24 AM
 
I shall defer to your ability to stomach more of these things than I have.

Much dull. So bores.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 11:31 AM
 
Huh? The only thing I watched between the two was Obamas speech. The tone was pretty clear from the news coverage.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 11:34 AM
 
I feel like it's not a stretch that Trumps convention was much more dire than average when he has no grasp of the facts, declares Mexicans rapists, says we're constantly losing economically, and that terrorists are infiltrating our country.

Maybe 2004 is comparable for you.
     
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Aug 2, 2016, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I'm kinda having trouble believing it.
They changed the poll by adding the 3rd parties. The blatant favoritism on display by the media is getting worse with each day, they're selling off every scrap of integrity they have to get Hillary in the White House. Every day they're looking more and more like the British and German rags.
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The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 02:26 PM
 
guis, I have a crazy thought. What if the polls are accurate? What if the conventions greatly distort the polls? What if they should be ignored because those effects tend to fade over time? What if they don't matter anyway because The election is still 100 days out and a lot can change from then? What if we wait to look at polls until they become statistically more relevant? What if, when we do, we ignore national polls because they are electorally irrelevant?

Crazy talk, but what do you expect from a leftist.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 02:42 PM
 
That would make for a boring numbers thread, no?
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:12 PM
 
Only til the time is ripe. In the meantime we can still do the punditry part, right?
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:14 PM
 
Let me also state I'm reacting somewhat to how it spiked on Silver's model. The national numbers aren't out there.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Only til the time is ripe.
Oh, it's ****in ripe alright.
     
Chongo
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
guis, I have a crazy thought. What if the polls are accurate? What if the conventions greatly distort the polls? What if they should be ignored because those effects tend to fade over time? What if they don't matter anyway because The election is still 100 days out and a lot can change from then? What if we wait to look at polls until they become statistically more relevant? What if, when we do, we ignore national polls because they are electorally irrelevant?

Crazy talk, but what do you expect from a leftist.
Or, it could be the "Bradley Effect" at work.
45/47
     
Snow-i
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Huh? The only thing I watched between the two was Obamas speech. The tone was pretty clear from the news coverage.
Wait, what?

You didn't watch coverage of either, but instead are making your judgement based on the tone of the news channels you're watching?. Holy shit dude. Talk about confirmation bias.
     
Snow-i
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
guis, I have a crazy thought. What if the polls are accurate? What if the conventions greatly distort the polls? What if they should be ignored because those effects tend to fade over time? What if they don't matter anyway because The election is still 100 days out and a lot can change from then? What if we wait to look at polls until they become statistically more relevant? What if, when we do, we ignore national polls because they are electorally irrelevant?

Crazy talk, but what do you expect from a leftist.
The polls are never right.

This analysis, has only ever been wrong once since 1912.
Trump Will Become President, Statistical Model Says | US News
Helmut Norpoth, a professor of political science at Stony Brook University, has developed a statistical model that predicts a 97 percent to 99 percent chance that Trump will win the 2016 presidential election if he wins the Republican nomination, The Blaze reports.
Norpoth's model has correctly predicted the outcome of every single presidential election since 1912 – save one, the election of 1960, which some believe was rigged. It uses a candidate’s performance in their party’s primary coupled with electoral cycle patterns to determine the likely outcome of the general election.
You'll definitely feel the tone of your preferred MSM channels change if this holds to be true again. I wonder what opinion/assumptions you'll draw from that. /snark.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Wait, what?

You didn't watch coverage of either, but instead are making your judgement based on the tone of the news channels you're watching?. Holy shit dude. Talk about confirmation bias.
Do you disagree that the RNC had a bleak message?

And I'll remind you, I don't watch the news.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
The polls are never right.

This analysis, has only ever been wrong once since 1912.
Trump Will Become President, Statistical Model Says | US News


You'll definitely feel the tone of your preferred MSM channels change if this holds to be true again. I wonder what opinion/assumptions you'll draw from that. /snark.
I have no idea if this is a real criticism hidden in sarcasm or something I'm supposed to shrug off and move on.
     
Snow-i
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
I have no idea if this is a real criticism hidden in sarcasm or something I'm supposed to shrug off and move on.
Just a light hearted jape - shrug and move .
     
Snow-i
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Aug 2, 2016, 03:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Do you disagree that the RNC had a bleak message?

And I'll remind you, I don't watch the news.
I think the RNC's message is a bit bleak - but I think that bleak message is more in line with reality than the DNC's "everything is great" message. I think the general voting public is wary of another 4 years of the status quo - where the economy hasn't really moved, ISIS remains a huge threat, attacks are popping up all over the world, and the racial divide larger than it's been in two decades or more.

Add in some DNC shenanigans and the Berners, and I'd say the DNC's habit of grossly understating the severity of these problems (including corruption) is coming ever more to the light.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 04:14 PM
 
I didn't see the DNC message as everything is great. I saw a message that things aren't as dire as portrayed and that we still need to help those that were left behind in the recovery. Voters not wanting the status quo isn't exactly insightful. The question is which direction they want things taken in.

I agree the DNC was more outwardly dysfunctional than the RNC.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 04:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Snow-i View Post
Just a light hearted jape - shrug and move .
So you don't believe the polls are never right?
     
Snow-i
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Aug 2, 2016, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
So you don't believe the polls are never right?
The second part was the jape (with the /snark after it), the top sentence stands true. The polls are almost always wrong.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 2, 2016, 04:50 PM
 
Well that's not a perspective I've heard before.
     
Chongo
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Aug 3, 2016, 06:09 AM
 
So, not learning from the past? Pence mentioned this in his remarks last night in Phoenix.
U.S. Sent Cash to Iran as Americans Were Freed - WSJ
45/47
     
Chongo
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Aug 3, 2016, 03:23 PM
 
Ok, hell has officially frozen over.
45/47
     
Snow-i
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Aug 3, 2016, 04:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Well that's not a perspective I've heard before.
It's relatively common knowledge that polls are wildly inaccurate up to and sometimes including eve-of-election.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...labels.svg.png

Here's a WSJ article that while relatively limited in scope, demonstrates my meaning.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 5, 2016, 01:56 PM
 


Owie.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Aug 6, 2016, 01:13 AM
 
The irony:

Trump is a Northern Liberal, pretending to be a Southern Conservative, while Hillary actually is a Southern Conservative, pretending to be a Northern Liberal. She doesn't actually give two sh*ts about the progressives, or their platforms, she's just using them to get elected, and Trump's doing the same with the Right. This election is about being played; people honestly believe a candidate's positions change just because they recently altered their rhetoric, but unfortunately for the voters that's not how these things actually work.
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The Final Dakar
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Aug 8, 2016, 02:10 PM
 
Freakomics had a decent podcast on how politicians would try to improve the system. A handful of politicians covering the spectrum interviewed.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 8, 2016, 02:17 PM
 


Owie. Owie. Owie.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 8, 2016, 02:57 PM
 
You prefer polls plus?
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 8, 2016, 03:09 PM
 
I don't really have a preference. I put up polls-only because that's what it defaults to.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 8, 2016, 03:27 PM
 
Oops, I misread that. Yeah, I prefer polls only after Nate Silvers "the party decides" punditry, but in practice I believe the two give nearly identical results creating a bit of "what's the point?" Factor.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 8, 2016, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
The irony:

Trump is a Northern Liberal, pretending to be a Southern Conservative, while Hillary actually is a Southern Conservative, pretending to be a Northern Liberal. She doesn't actually give two sh*ts about the progressives, or their platforms, she's just using them to get elected, and Trump's doing the same with the Right. This election is about being played; people honestly believe a candidate's positions change just because they recently altered their rhetoric, but unfortunately for the voters that's not how these things actually work.
Hillary Clinton is now a southern conservative. This election is amazing.
     
subego  (op)
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Aug 8, 2016, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Oops, I misread that. Yeah, I prefer polls only after Nate Silvers "the party decides" punditry, but in practice I believe the two give nearly identical results creating a bit of "what's the point?" Factor.
I'd say the polls-plus, which are about 75/25 now, are doing a decent job reflecting Hillary still has plenty of time to implode.
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 8, 2016, 04:27 PM
 
It's likely because it's not as influenced by polls, which are still drowning in the post convention bounce. Anyway the reliability accuracy is still shit for another 30 days or so.
( Last edited by The Final Dakar; Aug 8, 2016 at 08:41 PM. Reason: word choice)
     
Chongo
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Aug 8, 2016, 05:47 PM
 
45/47
     
besson3c
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Aug 8, 2016, 06:44 PM
 
Why are you so invested about making sure Hillary doesn't win if you are going to vote for Kodos, Chongo? Why not support a third-party candidate and promote that candidate?

I mean, you're questioning Nate Silver, who has a pretty good track record, and pretty much every poll in existence. Not that it matters, it's still August, there is a lot of fluff to come still, but comon...
     
Chongo
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Aug 8, 2016, 07:39 PM
 
I don't want her appointing judges to the SCOTUS or other federal courts, increasing funding to Planned Parethood, or repealing the Hyde and Helm amendments.

Yes, lots of on the way.

Here's a good example. Why does she need help going up a small set of stairs?


It's to the point that Hannity is doing a segment on his show tonight. I won't bother with the pics of the "what ever it is" on her tongue.

BTW, I've decided to write in Sarah Palin.
45/47
     
The Final Dakar
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Aug 8, 2016, 08:27 PM
 
So, who likes Trump's economic plan?
     
besson3c
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Aug 8, 2016, 08:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I don't want her appointing judges to the SCOTUS or other federal courts, increasing funding to Planned Parethood, or repealing the Hyde and Helm amendments.
You realize that defunding Planed Parenthood won't make abortion illegal? So you'd rather people seek their legal abortions elsewhere? And Trump has shown an ability to make reasonable judgement that would apply towards SCOTUS nominees? Do you think he knows that Judge Judy is not a real judge?

Here's a good example. Why does she need help going up a small set of stairs?
Better post that fluff picture again. You supported John McCain, no?

BTW, I've decided to write in Sarah Palin.
Seriously?
     
Chongo
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Aug 8, 2016, 08:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You realize that defunding Planed Parenthood won't make abortion illegal? So you'd rather people seek their legal abortions elsewhere? And Trump has shown an ability to make reasonable judgement that would apply towards SCOTUS nominees? Do you think he knows that Judge Judy is not a real judge?



Better post that fluff picture again. You supported John McCain, no?



Seriously?
Yep.

I'll take a pic and post it.

I don't want any more of my money going to Planned Parenthood.

McCain was shot out the sky and broke both legs when he landed in a lake in the middle of Hanoi. He was also tortured. And Hillary?

BTW Judge Judy is retire Manhattan family court judge.
45/47
     
besson3c
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Aug 8, 2016, 08:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
McCain was shot out the sky and broke both legs when he landed in a lake in the middle of Hanoi. He was also tortured. And Hillary?
What is your point? Because she is either injured or crippled she is unfit to serve, but McCain was fit to serve despite being really old because he paid his dues?

Seriously dude, it's August. Chill with the fluff.
     
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Aug 8, 2016, 08:52 PM
 
You're killing me Chongo, and as a good moral Catholic man you should be interested in not killing me.
     
 
 
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