Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Hardware - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Mac Notebooks > Purchase question: PowerBook/iBook 12"

Purchase question: PowerBook/iBook 12"
Thread Tools
William Shaw
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Durham, NC, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 31, 2004, 12:46 PM
 
Hello all,

I'm buying a new laptop for graduate school, probably within the next two weeks. I'm upgrading from pretty old hardware (G4/400 PowerBook and G3/266 desktop). What follows is my current line of reasoning on both the 12" iBook ($1182 [edu] with 60GB/Combo/AE/Bluetooth) and the 12" PowerBook ($1399 with the same), the two laptops I'm interested in.

1. I used the 1.33GHz 12" PowerBook in the Durham, NC Apple Store today, and its display looks MUCH brighter than that of the 12" iBook. (Side note: last week, I wasn't impressed with the 12" TFT, but I realized today that I had been using a previous-gen model then--why does Apple leave these on display?) Am I just imagining that the PowerBook display is brighter, or have others had the same experience? Brighter is definitely better and easier to read, so there's a plus for the 12".

2. The CPU/memory speed increases are nice, but ultimately of small importance. I will probably waste a good bit of time in GarageBand ;-), but otherwise, I'm mostly going to write a lot of papers and take class notes.

3. The first 12" PBG4 was notorious for heat problems. I've read reports from users that subsequent models have fixed these issues, but I'm still somewhat skeptical. Anbody have a serious heat problem with this machine?

4. The iBook's battery life is longer. Apple says 6 hours and 5 hours for the iBook/PB12, respectively, so the actual figures are probably 5 and 4. This is semi-important; there seem to be abundant power outlets in the library here (UNC Chapel Hill). Still, a small iBook advantage.

5. I'm unsure which machine will prove more durable in the long run. I know the iBook is designed with ruggedness in mind, but the 12" PowerBook isn't exactly an eggshell, either, and I take very good care of my machines. I'm also wary of iBook G4 "wake-from-sleep bug" reports, and of course, the widespread G3 logic board problems. Does anyone share my perception that the iBook line is more prone to experience these sorts of issues in the long term? I need this machine to be useful for at least five years, however obsolete it may become.

6. The PowerBook's mini-DVI out and audio line in ports are a small advantage. I'll probably buy an external TFT display within the next year, and monitor spanning would be vastly preferable to mirroring. I would likely use the line-level audio input if I had it.

Sorry to go on and on, but this is a huge deal for me--I don't have a lot of money, so I want to make a rational, informed decision and end up with a notebook that will last a long time. Am I overlooking anything? What have I missed when thinking about these two machines, and what would you do in my situation? I really appreciate any feedback, especially from current-gen 12" iBook/PB owners.

Thanks a lot,
Will
     
psk-ele
Forum Regular
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dayton, OH
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 31, 2004, 01:39 PM
 
I think I may be able to help out...

1.) Yes, the 12" PB screen is brighter (I have my GFs 12" 1GHz iBook and my 12" 1.33GHz PB here side by side)

2.)There is a 330 MHz proc difference and a 33MHz bus speed difference, but I've played with both, and for what you are doing, you won't notice the difference that much.

3.)I haven't really cranked up the 12" PB yet, but the heat problem isn't as bad (I had a 867MHz 12" PB and hot is the apt name). The heat seems to be more evenly distributed and while localized on the left palm rest, still is much more tolerable and cooler running that those Rev. A 12" PB

4.)Without a doubt the iBook's battery life will be better!! You have a faster proc. and bus speed and you have a brighter LCD. Even in power savings mode, you are going to see at least 1hr of real-time difference. I vouche for the iBook on this one, even my 14" 933MHz iBook would get around 6 hrs with just MS Word open.

5.)Durability is something I can't help you out with. I'm very protective of my Apple, so I don't really get a chance to see how they will hold up under extreme conditions. As far as the "wake from sleep" bug on the iBook G4's, I've owned one and my GF has another and I can honestly say we have yet to experience that bug.

6.) DVI-out is excellent, but you can get plenty of cheaper LCD's that utilize VGA-out too. If you use the spanning hack (I don't know the address, but someone on this forum will more than gladly help you out on that) you can use two monitors. If you are set on using the audio-in line, and using an external monitor for spanning, then I say 12" PB.

Well, I hope this helps a bit!! No matter which laptop you choose, they will both last you a long time!! Good luck in Graduate School!!!
"When people say that Macs suck, that
means they have never used
them.....trust me...."
     
crunked
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Toronto
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 31, 2004, 03:52 PM
 
Originally posted by psk-ele:
I think I may be able to help out...

1.) Yes, the 12" PB screen is brighter (I have my GFs 12" 1GHz iBook and my 12" 1.33GHz PB here side by side)

2.)There is a 330 MHz proc difference and a 33MHz bus speed difference, but I've played with both, and for what you are doing, you won't notice the difference that much.

3.)I haven't really cranked up the 12" PB yet, but the heat problem isn't as bad (I had a 867MHz 12" PB and hot is the apt name). The heat seems to be more evenly distributed and while localized on the left palm rest, still is much more tolerable and cooler running that those Rev. A 12" PB

4.)Without a doubt the iBook's battery life will be better!! You have a faster proc. and bus speed and you have a brighter LCD. Even in power savings mode, you are going to see at least 1hr of real-time difference. I vouche for the iBook on this one, even my 14" 933MHz iBook would get around 6 hrs with just MS Word open.

5.)Durability is something I can't help you out with. I'm very protective of my Apple, so I don't really get a chance to see how they will hold up under extreme conditions. As far as the "wake from sleep" bug on the iBook G4's, I've owned one and my GF has another and I can honestly say we have yet to experience that bug.

6.) DVI-out is excellent, but you can get plenty of cheaper LCD's that utilize VGA-out too. If you use the spanning hack (I don't know the address, but someone on this forum will more than gladly help you out on that) you can use two monitors. If you are set on using the audio-in line, and using an external monitor for spanning, then I say 12" PB.

Well, I hope this helps a bit!! No matter which laptop you choose, they will both last you a long time!! Good luck in Graduate School!!!
Can you or someone post a picture of the 12" ibook and powerbook side by side so I can see the difference between the lcd brightness?
     
HasanDaddy
Forum Regular
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Pasadena, Cally
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Jul 31, 2004, 10:04 PM
 
The battery life on the 12" PB is EXCELLENT

a solid 5 hours or so!

The 12" is also smaller and much more portable

As far as screens go, the iBook may be just a 'bit' brighter --- but overall, I found them to be the same, from what I recall

if you can afford it, I would go with the 12"

better bus, better size, same battery life, and DVI is HUGE
"Government is not the solution, its the problem" --- Ronald Reagan
     
turbodub_6
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Jul 2004
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 1, 2004, 12:00 AM
 
Okay, I hope I can help you out a little, as I also thought long and hard about my ibook or pb purchase and it sounds like we're looking for the same things; mostly writing papers, emails and web browsing with occasional iLife use.

1) I've heard that the pb screen (in rev. C's) is brighter than ibook screens, but I wasn't able to tell any difference until I saw them side by side. If they were more than 5 feet apart, I couldn't tell the difference unless I was looking for it. I agree that brightness is a good thing, and that ultimately made me decide to go for a 12" over a 14" ibook. Anyways, the point is, I don't think that brightness will be an issue if you go with the 12" ibook or pb. Even though the 12" pb is brighter, the 12" ibook is still great, and I don't think you'll long for a brighter display.

2) I agree that the processor/memory speed increase of the pb won't really be noticeable for what we're doing, but faster is always better. I think you'll notice a slight difference when it comes to Garageband/iLife stuff, but nothing huge.

3) I can't say too much about this issue, since I won't get my laptop for a couple days still. But, from what I've seen/heard (at stores and over forums and such), the new pb's aren't bad at all with heat. Yes, they get warmer than room temp, but not hot. Especially for the relatively light use that we'll be giving it, I don't think heat is an issue. I can say this though, my old ibook G3 never ever got warm. I heard that the G4 ibooks get warmer than the G3's, but general concensus seems that the ibook runs cooler than the pb.

4) Yes, the ibook battery will last longer than the pb's. This was an issue for me too, as I HATE laptops with short battery life. I don't quite see the point in buying something portable that has to be tethered down. However, the battery lives of the pb and the ibook are great, and either one should be fine. I figure this; if I'm going to the library, knowing that I have a major paper to write that will take me close to 4-5 hours, I'm going to be bringing my power adapter whether I have an ibook or a pb.

5) I've heard a lot of people say that the ibook is more "rugged" than the pb. A lot of the time though, I think people are referring to scratches, and cosmetic issues. I don't care if my pb has scratches and dents as long as it still does its job. Having said that, I don't really think that a fall or bump or whatever will cause the pb to break, but the ibook would survive. Also, especially if you take good care of your stuff, I really don't think the pb will get damaged or anything, I've heard it can take quite a lickin' too.

6) I can't say anything about line-in, but I know that DVI-out is a great feature of the pb, but if you really want it, you can hack the ibook to do spanning as well.

Okay, I hope that helps a bit, now I'll tell you what I did. After months of agonizing, I ordered my 12" pb a few days ago. I did this for a few reasons. First, I, like you, want this laptop to last me a long long time. I know that it will be "out of date" long before I get rid of it, so I think the best computer now will obviously last longer. One big issue for me was the release of Tiger. You probably know that Core Image, used by Tiger, supports the pb's graphics card, but not the ibooks. I know this isn't exactly a huge deal, because the ibook will still run Tiger great, I'm sure. What really bothered me was the idea of buying a brand new laptop that would be unable to fully utilize software that will be available a year from now. I'm worried that it would be a slippery slope from there.

So, I really hope I helped you because I know the indecision you are going through, and how much it sucks to be in between things without a solution. Let me know if you need anymore help.

Oh, by the way, if you're really tight for cash, another factor is that Applecare for ibooks is considerably cheaper than it is for pb's. I think the margin is about $100.

Alright, good luck with you're decision, I'm sure you'll be happy with whatever you decide.

Cheers

Roger
     
cSurfr
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 4, 2004, 11:08 PM
 
I happen to own a Rev. C 12" and must say that i'm quite happy with it. My wife wanted an ibook for the obvious reasons of price. I was set on the PB for these main reasons. 1) Video RAM. 64mb in the Powerbook vs 32mb in the iBook. If you enable monitor spanning on the ibook, you're only gonna get 16mb for each screen. Not too exciting. 2) DVI (especially since the new apple displays are dvi, this is great to have). and 3. Built in everything. Bluetooth, Airport Extreme, etc. You don't have to wait for a BTO machine to arrive a week or so later. It's ready to go right out of the box. I've had all 3 revisions of the 12" Powerbook, and I must say that the C is by far the best as far as build quality, and heat are concerned. My fan does kick on, but then again, it's a laptop and that's where I use it most. In the bed surfing the net or writing, or on the couch while watching the news. No need to sit at a desk any longer. Either way you will enjoy your purchase, but for me, aluminum was the only way to go.

cs
     
skelotar
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Heaven
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 5, 2004, 12:08 AM
 
Just get the PowerBook and call it a day. You say you're going to have this laptop for quite some time, spend a little extra now and the difference in money over 5 years will be negligable[sp].
     
wuzup101
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2003
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 5, 2004, 06:21 AM
 
IMHO go for the PowerBook. Like the other said, spend a bit more cash now, and have a machine that your happy with for the next 5 years. I just purchased a new 15" Powerbook and I'm more than happy with apple's product. I've had the privlage of using a 12" iBook (my friends) and seeing a 12" iBook and 12" PB next to eachother (at the PSU computer store a while back) and they are both very nice machines. The PB is a smaller overall package that really packs a punch. Drop a 1gb stick of ram in there and you'll really have yourself a powerhouse machine that should last you some time. This 1.5ghz processor really feels as fast as my PC desktop (see sig). I really don't have any gripes about the speed or anything, and the 12" PB isn't far behind in that department! Go for it and enjoy grad school!
Mac: 15" 1.5ghz PB w/ 128mb vid, 5400rpm 80gb, combo drive, 2gb ram
Peripherals: 20gb 4g iPod, Canon i950, Canon S230 "elph", Canon LIDE30, Logitech MX510, Logitech z5500, M-Audio Sonica Theater, Samsung 191T
PC: AMD "barton" XP @ 2.3ghz, 1gb pc3200, 9800pro 128mb, 120gb WD-SE 120gb
Xbox: 1.6, modded with X3 xecuter, slayers evoX 2.6, WDSE 120gb HDD
     
William Shaw  (op)
Fresh-Faced Recruit
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Durham, NC, USA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Aug 5, 2004, 05:11 PM
 
Thanks to all for the good advice and sharing of personal experiences.

I bought a 12" PowerBook today (stock model, 60GB/Combo drive). One-word summary of my reaction: WOW. :-)

Really, what a great machine. Incredibly fast--compared to my antique G3 and G4/400, anyway. (I just popped in a 512MB DIMM from Ramjet for a total of 768MB, and man does this thing fly.) Great keyboard and bright, sharp display. Love the 8.6x10.9" lateral dimensions, the built-in wireless connectivity, and everything else so far. And I should note that I was surprised to find the mini-DVI -> VGA and mini-DVI -> DVI adapters included in the box. I don't think Apple mentions on the PB Web site that they are--pleasant surprise.

Through the years, I've owned a 540c, 3400c, iBook 366 indigo, and the Ti G4/400. This one is the best so far, though the truly great 540c gives some stiff competition :-).

Anyway, back to copying over my old data and turning the G3 into a file server. Thanks again to everyone who replied with info and insights about the 12" PB--it rocks!

-Will
     
   
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:02 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,