[nebben123]

Does Panther support the UDF format yet?

I have a Sony MVC-CD400 digital camera that writes to 80mm CD-Rs. Unfortunately, OS X can't read them because it still doesn't support UDF 2.0 (or at least that's my understanding) which is the standard format these discs use.

When I put the disc in, nothing happens. I don't get the "this disc is unrecognized format... etc" error... it spins up, acts like it's reading the disc, but it never shows up on my desktop or list of volumes. There used to be a tech info article about it, but I can't find it anymore... the solution was to download the photos over USB... but that's stupid. I bought this camera so I could use the damn CDs. USB is too slow and cumbersome compared to sticking a little CD in the drive.

This is really ridiculous. OS 9 can read them if you have the Adaptec UDF Volume Reader extension installed. And Windows XP has been able to read them since it came out. OS X is more than two years behind on this!

Someone PLEASE let me know if Panther supports this CD format yet!

[iJed]

No it doesn't look like UDF 2.0 is supported on Panther. From the man page on mount_udf:
UDF 1.50 is supported. UDF 2.0 and later is not.

I also tried an earlier version of Panther with a UDF 2 CD and it failed to mount. It worked perfectly on Windows XP.

[intastella]

What kind of CDs are in UDF 2 format? Commercial ones?

[rlmorel]

I really need to be able to read UDF formatted disks. I work in a Radiology department, and the Windows machines being used as workstations only write in UDF format. We have a significant number of Radiologists who use Macs, and would like to be able to read these disks natively.

Does anyone know of any freeware/shareware ANYWHERE that helps a Mac read these disks?

[Eug]

Mac OS X has always supported FAT32, UDF 1.0, and UDF 1.5 reads. It has never supported UDF 2.0, except with 3rd party drivers. The 3rd party drivers are meant for DVD-VR discs (ie. DVD-RW or DVD-RAM based standalone DVD recorders for home theatre systems), but I'm assuming it should work with UDF 2 CDs as well. You should ask them to make sure.

I work in a Radiology department, and the Windows machines being used as workstations only write in UDF format. We have a significant number of Radiologists who use Macs, and would like to be able to read these disks natively.

Which version of Windows? Which version of UDF?

[nebben123]

thanks eug. hopefully this will work.

although i still find it somewhat ridiculous that i now have to spend $25 on a 3rd party driver for udf 2.0. it can't be that hard... why doesn't apple just add udf 2.0 support to os x?

it's reasons like these that i understand why people use windows. at least it supports damn near everything. os x is hit-or-miss.

ben

[ZackS]

Originally posted by nebben123:
thanks eug. hopefully this will work.

although i still find it somewhat ridiculous that i now have to spend $25 on a 3rd party driver for udf 2.0. it can't be that hard... why doesn't apple just add udf 2.0 support to os x?

it's reasons like these that i understand why people use windows. at least it supports damn near everything. os x is hit-or-miss.

ben

What about HFS or HFS+?

[Eug Wanker]

thanks eug. hopefully this will work.

although i still find it somewhat ridiculous that i now have to spend $25 on a 3rd party driver for udf 2.0. it can't be that hard... why doesn't apple just add udf 2.0 support to os x?

it's reasons like these that i understand why people use windows. at least it supports damn near everything. os x is hit-or-miss.

ben

Yeah, I wouldn't mind having UDF 2.0 read support too, although UDF is best suited as a read/write format. For this purpose XP requires 3rd party drivers too.

But yeah, it's about time even just reads are supported, esp. considering it's becoming a popular format for standalone DVD recorders. If OS X could read UDF 2.0 and DVD player could understand DVD-VR, that would be perfect.

What about HFS or HFS+?

Mac OS X supports HFS+ read/write on DVD-RAM. I use it for file backup.

[WJMoore]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Mac OS X supports HFS+ read/write on DVD-RAM. I use it for file backup.

I think ZackS was referring to Windows not supporting HFS. You can add to that list pretty much all the UNIX filesystems too. Such as FFS and ext2/3.

[arekkusu]

Originally posted by Eug:
Mac OS X has always supported FAT32, UDF 1.0, and UDF 1.5 reads.

Except that it has a bug preventing reading any file larger than 1 gig from UDF (it treats my data DVD as a video DVD.) OS 9 works fine, too bad my AlBook can't boot it.

[Eug]

I think ZackS was referring to Windows not supporting HFS. You can add to that list pretty much all the UNIX filesystems too. Such as FFS and ext2/3.

I read/write HFS+ DVD-RAM disks on my Windows boxes. Of course I had to use 3rd party software: MacDrive.

Except that it has a bug preventing reading any file larger than 1 gig from UDF (it treats my data DVD as a video DVD.) OS 9 works fine, too bad my AlBook can't boot it.

Really? Didn't know about the 1 GB limitation. (I have never tried reading a file that big with UDF. The times I've used >1 GB files on the Mac it's been with HFS+.)

[jbhopper]

Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.softarch.com/us/press/PRRDVDXmac1aug19.html

[Sarc]

from Panther's (GM) man mount_udf:

BUGS
UDF 1.50 is supported. UDF 2.0 and later is not.

bad move apple, specially if that warning is in the "BUGS" section of the man page.

[mitchell_pgh]

ha ha... crap like this kills me...

Blame Apple for not supporting a NORMAL format... not the company that is using an unusual format...

[nebben123]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
ha ha... crap like this kills me...

Blame Apple for not supporting a NORMAL format... not the company that is using an unusual format...

This is not an ususual format. The Mavica CDs use the UDF 2.0 standard which OS X does not support. Did you even read this thread before you spouted off nonsense?

http://www.osta.org/specs/

http://www.softarch.com/us/products/UDFproductlist.html

[nebben123]

Originally posted by jbhopper:
Is this what you are looking for?

http://www.softarch.com/us/press/PRRDVDXmac1aug19.html

Yep. Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread. I bought ReadDVD today and for some reason I still can't read the CDs even though everything I've been able to find on the web indicates that the Mavica discs use UDF 2.0.

I called Software Architects and they had no idea why it isn't working. So I'm sending them some sample discs to check out. Hopefully they can make ReadDVD and the Mavica CDs work together.

I'll report back when I hear from them.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
ha ha... crap like this kills me...

Blame Apple for not supporting a NORMAL format... not the company that is using an unusual format...

UDF 2.0 is a format standard, and it was announced 5 years ago.

It is supported by the likes of Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba, Hitachi, Pioneer, Microsoft, etc.

My Panasonic DVD recorder (VCR replacement) uses UDF 2.0, as does my friend's Hitachi DVD camcorder.

[mitchell_pgh]

I think my point was that they should use a standard format (fat32, etc. etc.). Yes, OS X should have UDF 2.0 in it standard, but I think these people go out of their way to use unique formats.

Apple should place it in, but people like Sony should also take some of the blame for thinking that everyone in the world is on a Windows system.

Sorry for the rant... I didn't intend to sound like I was against UDF. More like I'm against people that don't consider multi-platforms when designing hardware.

PS: I can't stand the Sony MVC-CD400 or 500. They are returned to the store 60%+ of the time... even after I tell the people why they might not like them...

[Eug]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I think my point was that they should use a standard format (fat32, etc. etc.). Yes, OS X should have UDF 2.0 in it standard, but I think these people go out of their way to use unique formats.

Apple should place it in, but people like Sony should also take some of the blame for thinking that everyone in the world is on a Windows system.

Sorry for the rant... I didn't intend to sound like I was against UDF. More like I'm against people that don't consider multi-platforms when designing hardware.

PS: I can't stand the Sony MVC-CD400 or 500. They are returned to the store 60%+ of the time... even after I tell the people why they might not like them...

FAT32 is a Windows format.

UDF: "Short for Universal Disk Format, a universal vendor-independent file system for optical media designed for data interchange and portability, allowing an operating system to read, write and modify data stored on optical media that was created by another operating system."

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Eug:
FAT32 is a Windows format.

UDF: "Short for Universal Disk Format, a universal vendor-independent file system for optical media designed for data interchange and portability, allowing an operating system to read, write and modify data stored on optical media that was created by another operating system."

Yes, it's a windows format, but everyone can read it. Like MP3... It's not a "open and universal" format, but everyone can read it. I feel they should have selected something less OS specific. Many versions of Windows can't read the UDF 2.0 spec.

[nebben123]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Yes, it's a windows format, but everyone can read it. Like MP3... It's not a "open and universal" format, but everyone can read it. I feel they should have selected something less OS specific. Many versions of Windows can't read the UDF 2.0 spec.

No, it's NOT a Windows format. It's a universal standard for optical media. Sony probably used UDF because of the standard nature of it. Any system can support the format, it's not owned by Microsoft or any OS vendor.

Just because Apple is lazy and doesn't support UDF 2.0, doesn't mean it's a Microsoft format simply because Windows DOES support it. It just means that (ironically?) Microsoft is ahead of Apple in supporting this particular format standard specification.

Truthfully, I find it somewhat troubling that Apple does not support the full UDF spec since macs are supposed to be (SUPPOSED to be) the "multimedia" computer.

There are reasons that Sony selected UDF and not something else like fat32 as you seem to prefer. UDF is probably the only filesystem standard that something like a CD mavica can use, as it does what (i think) are called "packet writes" to the disc. This is how it is able to write a photo to the disc, and keep adding more photos during different sessions, without actually making a multisession disc. It uses the optical media more like a hard drive that what you think of as a standard CD-R only being able to write a disc once. I doubt an antiquated file system like fat32 could do this.

Believe me, the engineers at Sony know a lot more than any of us. I'm sure they made the best choice for compatibility. It's Apple's fault for not supporting the UDF 2.0 standard that has been out for years and is used and supported by almost every other DVD/CD device or computer/OS on the market.

Hell, Windows XP has supported reading of UDF 2.0 discs out of the box since it was released, what, 2 years ago? (or was it 3?)

Here we are with the 4th major revision of Mac OS X coming up, and UDF 2.0 STILL isn't supported!

"Digital Hub" my ass.

[mitchell_pgh]

When I said it's a Windows format... I was talking about Fat32... not UDF...