[kupan787]

I am looking for the best router that plays nice with P2P. Currently we have the WRT54G, and if all three of us have bittorrent open, the router gets hammered with too many connections, and slows down to an unusable mess. I have the dd-wrt firmware patched onto it, and have followed the suggestions to increase the number of connections to 4096, but if just 800-1000 connections have been opened, then the router becomes unusable (and as such, so does our network).

Anyone have any experiences with other routers? I am willing to spend a couple of hundred on a better router (something above cheap consumer, but below expensive corporate). It doesn't need wireless capability (I have an AirPort AP for that), just needs to do routing, and do it well.

[ghporter]

If you're using the WRT54G with DD-WRT firmware, then you have probably the best P2P setup available; you might be able to get a little better performance with a WRT54GS and the appropriate third party firmware, but that's about it.. The hardware available is not able to deal with the humongous number of connections torrenting requires. In other words, your usage is beyond what can be handled by any consumer-level hardware. I don't think "a couple of hundred" is going to get what you need; more like "a couple of thousand." There simply isn't a level between consumer and full-out professional hardware, which is what you appear to need.

[kupan787]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

If you're using the WRT54G with DD-WRT firmware, then you have probably the best P2P setup available; you might be able to get a little better performance with a WRT54GS and the appropriate third party firmware, but that's about it.. The hardware available is not able to deal with the humongous number of connections torrenting requires. In other words, your usage is beyond what can be handled by any consumer-level hardware. I don't think "a couple of hundred" is going to get what you need; more like "a couple of thousand." There simply isn't a level between consumer and full-out professional hardware, which is what you appear to need.

When searching google, I came across someone recommending this:

PROVANTAGE: Cisco CISCO871-K9 Cisco 871 Dual Ethernet Security Router

Priced at $400, that would be doable for me. It looks like it has 128MB DRAM installed, and 24MB of flash, so that right there is way better than the 54G. And I have read a few reports that the memory is the issue when it comes to P2P on the consumer routers (many connections filling up the tables, filling up the RAM). I am guessing that this would fit better into my setup.

Anyone here have any experience setting up Cisco stuff? The router is listed as "small business grade", so I am hoping that it wont take a network admin to figure it out. I have, what I feel, is above average network skills (Comp Sci major, having taken 1 networking course).

[ghporter]

Here's Cisco's data sheet for the 871. It looks like it IS closer to "consumer" level than I thought. Interesting. You're right about the memory issues with consumer routers handling so many connections; moving up to a more professional device may get you what you want.

It appears that this particular device is managed very much like a consumer router. From experience, a business-class Cisco device would be beyond THIS computer scientist's ability without Cisco-specific training.

[kupan787]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Here's Cisco's data sheet for the 871. It looks like it IS closer to "consumer" level than I thought. Interesting. You're right about the memory issues with consumer routers handling so many connections; moving up to a more professional device may get you what you want.

It appears that this particular device is managed very much like a consumer router. From experience, a business-class Cisco device would be beyond THIS computer scientist's ability without Cisco-specific training.

Well, I need to think about things a bit, but if I take the plunge I will report back how it preforms.

[ghporter]

Great! There are no doubt a lot of people who have more elaborate networks than mine (one router, a switch, and a wireless access point, plus a networked drive), and it seems that a truly complex network would benefit from more professional hardware. I look forward to hearing what you do.

[Tomchu]

Um ...

How do you know that it's the router, and not simply your Internet connection that you're raping? I know that when I have 3 torrents going, my Internet crawls to an unusable mess -- regardless of what hardware I've got doing NAT.

Speaking of which ... the best solution IMO is a home-built PC (anything Pentium II and above with 128 MB of RAM and two decent NICs will do) + FreeBSD + pf. It'll rock a Linksys any day in terms of NAT performance.

[kupan787]

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

Um ...

How do you know that it's the router, and not simply your Internet connection that you're raping? I know that when I have 3 torrents going, my Internet crawls to an unusable mess -- regardless of what hardware I've got doing NAT.

Because, I couldn't even log into the router, it would just time out. Pinging the router was off the chart, with dropped packets left and right. If it was just my internet, the internal network (and my router) wouldn't be affected like that. Further, once I got into the router, I could see that the load on it was between 1.7 and 2.0...way way above what it should be.

Originally Posted by Tomchu 

Speaking of which ... the best solution IMO is a home-built PC (anything Pentium II and above with 128 MB of RAM and two decent NICs will do) + FreeBSD + pf. It'll rock a Linksys any day in terms of NAT performance.

And it is a whole lot louder and bigger. I'd probably spend just close to $400 building a custom, small and quiet PC, along with a switch (cause 2 nics alone wont be enough) for use as 'a router'. Or I can buy the $400 router I found from Cisco.

[Shuraiken]

Using WRT54, im a newbie in this forum but used to work for linksys.
have you tried to upgrade the firmware and open additional ports?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by kupan787 

Because, I couldn't even log into the router, it would just time out. Pinging the router was off the chart, with dropped packets left and right. If it was just my internet, the internal network (and my router) wouldn't be affected like that. Further, once I got into the router, I could see that the load on it was between 1.7 and 2.0...way way above what it should be.

Did you plug DIRECTLY into a LAN port on the router? After that, did you go to Network Preferences for your built-in ethernet and click on "renew DHCP lease"? Those two steps are 100% crucial. If you didn't renew the lease, your ethernet connection would be using its own, self-assigned, completely incompatible IP address and could NEVER connect to the router. Renewing the lease puts the ethernet connection on the same network as the router and allows you to connect.

Originally Posted by kupan787 

And it is a whole lot louder and bigger. I'd probably spend just close to $400 building a custom, small and quiet PC, along with a switch (cause 2 nics alone wont be enough) for use as 'a router'. Or I can buy the $400 router I found from Cisco.

I'd agree that a purpose-built PC running one of the router-specific flavors of Linux would be the "ideal" for this sort of thing---if I was putting it in an actual wiring closet with great air conditioning and proper cabling throughout the facility. I doubt that's the case though. The Cicso small business router you mentioned IS a very good choice for this because it's small, probably silent, and easy to manage (particularly for a Cicso router-you don't need a certification to manage this one).

[kupan787]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Did you plug DIRECTLY into a LAN port on the router? After that, did you go to Network Preferences for your built-in ethernet and click on "renew DHCP lease"? Those two steps are 100% crucial. If you didn't renew the lease, your ethernet connection would be using its own, self-assigned, completely incompatible IP address and could NEVER connect to the router. Renewing the lease puts the ethernet connection on the same network as the router and allows you to connect.

I did try this. And I was able to connect to the router, intermittently, and very slowly. Plus, seeing the router with a load of around 2, told me it was not my computer at all.

Originally Posted by ghporter 

I'd agree that a purpose-built PC running one of the router-specific flavors of Linux would be the "ideal" for this sort of thing---if I was putting it in an actual wiring closet with great air conditioning and proper cabling throughout the facility. I doubt that's the case though. The Cicso small business router you mentioned IS a very good choice for this because it's small, probably silent, and easy to manage (particularly for a Cicso router-you don't need a certification to manage this one).

Agreed. If I had the money, time, and space for it, a small custom quiet PC would be ideal. The problem is I live in a small 3 bedroom apartment, and have no place to put a "computer router". At some point, when I move to a house, I would love to wire the whole place up for gigabit, stick a computer to act as my router, and throw another computer on the network as a NAS (using something like freenas.org). One can dream

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by kupan787 

I did try this. And I was able to connect to the router, intermittently, and very slowly. Plus, seeing the router with a load of around 2, told me it was not my computer at all.

This shows all the signs of a bad router or bad cable; if all your cables are dependable then your router is goobered (sorry for the technical term). The FIRST thing to do is the old "long reset" where you unplug power from the router, hold down the reset button, plug it back in and wait AT LEAST 30 seconds until the power light goes steady. This restores the box to factory settings, and may fix it. Or not. Maybe the ports are just bad-it happens-or the box has been too warm for too long. Try the reset and see if it helps.

[kupan787]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

This shows all the signs of a bad router or bad cable; if all your cables are dependable then your router is goobered (sorry for the technical term). The FIRST thing to do is the old "long reset" where you unplug power from the router, hold down the reset button, plug it back in and wait AT LEAST 30 seconds until the power light goes steady. This restores the box to factory settings, and may fix it. Or not. Maybe the ports are just bad-it happens-or the box has been too warm for too long. Try the reset and see if it helps.

Not to be rude, but I think you may have forgotten our earlier conversation. This only happens when there is heavy bittorenting going on (3 users, going full force). 99% of the time, my router works and acts fine. I know the router is a ok, and so are my cables.

[ghporter]

Yes I did forget that. Lots of things going on you know. Finals, etc.

Anyway, beyond the fact that your problem ONLY happens when you're doing really heavy downloads, is there anything else at all that seems to cause the problem? If not, you're apparently simply running into the box's limitations. My fix would be to either cut down on the torrenting or find a higher-grade router. Sorry, but SOHO-level hardware just isn't built for what you seem to demand from your router.

[kupan787]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

Yes I did forget that. Lots of things going on you know. Finals, etc.

Anyway, beyond the fact that your problem ONLY happens when you're doing really heavy downloads, is there anything else at all that seems to cause the problem? If not, you're apparently simply running into the box's limitations. My fix would be to either cut down on the torrenting or find a higher-grade router. Sorry, but SOHO-level hardware just isn't built for what you seem to demand from your router.

Hence my question about new routers ;-)

I think the Cisco I found will handle things. It looks like a good "middle ground" (above consumer, below business grade).

[Hans M Aus]

Thanks for the interesting observation about the router's table (RAM) filling up.
This might be the problem in our SOHO network with a D-Link DI 707p, 4 iMacs (OSX 10.4.8), and 1 HP Printer. The network hangs sporadically when the fourth iMac is in the network.

D-Link (Deutschland) GmbH states that the maximum NAT connections is:

1024 for the DI-707P H/W:Bx and
2048 for the DI-707P H/W:C1.

Does a small network use that many connections?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Hans M Aus 

Thanks for the interesting observation about the router's table (RAM) filling up.
This might be the problem in our SOHO network with a D-Link DI 707p, 4 iMacs (OSX 10.4.8), and 1 HP Printer. The network hangs sporadically when the fourth iMac is in the network.

D-Link (Deutschland) GmbH states that the maximum NAT connections is:

1024 for the DI-707P H/W:Bx and
2048 for the DI-707P H/W:C1.

Does a small network use that many connections?

It can. Sometimes your browser will be running 10 or more connections that you're not actively aware of; my Firefox installation includes Forecast Fox, which can have as many as 5 (or more) connections all by itself. If you have more than one tab active you have at least that number of connections active. It adds up.

[Hans M Aus]

How many connections does the Cisco 871 allow?
A quick search through the specifications listed above, didn't reveal any information on the maximum table entries.

[kupan787]

Originally Posted by Hans M Aus 

How many connections does the Cisco 871 allow?
A quick search through the specifications listed above, didn't reveal any information on the maximum table entries.

I am not sure, but it will be a lot more than a consumer home router. The Cisco comes standard with 256MB of memory, where as most home routers have around 16MB. The Cisco is built for more than home, but less than full on business. It appears to sit nicely in the "mid" range segment.