[tasslehawf]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak 

Not really. We are paying more for the phone up front, since there are no contract discounts.

Bit I believe Apple is getting the majority profits on that so ATT gets the table scraps that would be the suscription plans. No idea for sure tho.

[tasslehawf]

Originally Posted by Phil333 

That's a flat out lie. There is a federal law that makes cell phone porting a mandatory and free option.

But not with a gophone you buy at 7eleven. If apple doesn't activate the phone in store then they may not be required to handle transfer numbers. I suspect if this is the case, you could buy the phone at an Apple store and take it to an ATT store to transfer your number.

[Nodnarb]

Originally Posted by Lava Lamp Freak 

Not really. We are paying more for the phone up front, since there are no contract discounts.

Does AT&T get any profit from iPhone sales? I thought Apple gets 100% of that profit (just like the iPod) PLUS a percentage of the monthly rate.

AT&T's incentive is to get a lot of people to switch to their network because they are the exclusive carrier for 2 years. And they make money on the plan, which is why I'm not expecting it to be super-low.

Edit: Didn't see the second page, was beaten to it.

[krove]

I'm definitely waiting in line, camping, whatever it takes to get one. I've never camped or waited in line for anything, but I think the iPhone is definitely worth it.

I'm curious as to what the ratio between the 4 GB and 8 GB models will be. I'm sure Apple knows that most of us early adopters are going to want that 8 GB. What about you guys? 4 or 8?

[Stogieman]

I'm going with with 8GB model.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Nodnarb 

Does AT&T get any profit from iPhone sales? I thought Apple gets 100% of that profit (just like the iPod) PLUS a percentage of the monthly rate.

I don't know if we have official word from either Apple or AT&T about the details of their relationship, but that sounds about right.

AT&T's incentive is to get a lot of people to switch to their network because they are the exclusive carrier for 2 years. And they make money on the plan, which is why I'm not expecting it to be super-low.

I read today that it's actually 5 years, which is pretty major.

[DigitalEl]

Originally Posted by krove

I'm sure Apple knows that most of us early adopters are going to want that 8 GB. What about you guys? 4 or 8?

8 GB here, too.

I've been tinkering w/my iTunes library trying to make it fit into the 6 GB I'll have available - saving room for OS X, photos and other miscellania.

It's really difficult to trim an 8.17 GB library down to an iPhone-friendly size... And I'm too anal for Auto Fill or other options like that. I don't know how those of you with the big libraries are gonna manage.

[icruise]

I've been using a shuffle quite a bit recently, so 8GB seems positively spacious. Of course, I have 200+ GB of videos and music, so even a normal iPod fits only a small subset.

[tasslehawf]

Right now I have a 20 gb 4th generation. It stays in my car full time because I use it to listen to some of my music but mostly audio books.

I'm not even sure if I'll use the iphone for music - maybe when I start to go back to the gym. But the music capability doesn't really interest me. I'm sure I can boil down to 4 or 5gb if I decide to go that route. I wish I had a good bluetooth system for my car - that Apple car stereo thing sounds like a really good idea to me. I'd like to see an aftermarket stereo from them.

[vln2]

Originally Posted by tasslehawf 

If apple doesn't activate the phone in store then they may not be required to handle transfer numbers. I suspect if this is the case, you could buy the phone at an Apple store and take it to an ATT store to transfer your number.

I specifically asked AT&T reps at their call center and at the AT&T store and was told that I can keep the old number.

To me the rate isssue only means higher data plans. Just think about it: Safari browser is going to load full web pages instead of simlified versions. That means more data downloads. Verizon requires data plans like Edge on all of its PDAs. So far with T-Mobile and AT&T you could have PDA and run it only on Wi-Fi. Perhaps now data plans will be required with all iPhones so you would not be able to decline it and the unlimited plan would be higher because it would use more data then on other phones.

I would get 8 GB as long as it is the same size as 4 Gig.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by vln2 

I would get 8 GB as long as it is the same size as 4 Gig.

Huh?

[icruise]

Same physical size, and yes they are.

[cSurfr]

Your phone number is linked to your SIM card. . . there is no reason why you couldn't keep your old number. GSM > CDMA.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by cSurfr 

Your phone number is linked to your SIM card. . . there is no reason why you couldn't keep your old number. GSM > CDMA.

If the SIM isn't replaceable/removable then would AT&T have to program the number?

[vln2]

Originally Posted by stevesnj 

If the SIM isn't replaceable/removable then would AT&T have to program the number?

In preparation for Friday I went with my wife to the AT&T store and we bought for her Nokia N75 which surprisingly truly shows most of the websites. Her old T-Mobile SIM card would not work with AT&T phones but they had a reader which was able to transfer her Contacts to her new AT&T SIM card.
So I guess old SIM cards are only good to transfer old data to new AT&T SIM cards and yes, all new phones including iPhone will need to be programmed with an old number in the store. Her new phone was able to receive calls under her old T-Mobile number within an hour.
It turned out to be worth to go to that store and setup new AT&T account now – we got $50 gas gift certificate (offered only until June 28th). On the 29th when I go and buy iPhone changing our plan to shared I will get another $20 gas gift certificate. That $70 will help offset costs of both phones.

I found out about the cost of unlimited iPhone data plan, as I expected it is not a bargain - $39.99/month.
I have seen both new carrying cases – one horizontal and one vertical made by Belkin. It is hard to say which one would work better. Horizontal one is more bulky but it is easier to get the iPhone out. Belkin’s case requires sliding the iPhone out all the way up vertically from the tight black leather case and that could scratch the device even though it has optical glass cover.

Opening time is 6pm, not AM. They will close the store early, reorganize it, receive the shipment and open the doors at 6pm.
That makes things worse for me because in the afternoon there will be huge line of people waiting. I guess we do not have a choice.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by vln2 

I found out about the cost of unlimited iPhone data plan, as I expected it is not a bargain - $39.99/month.

Do you think that's the official word from AT&T, or just a salesman's guess? So far we haven't been told the price.

Anyway, if it is $39.99, that's about what I expected.

[Nodnarb]

Most likely just a salesman's guess. The other day my dad came home and told me the AT&T guy told him it was $50/month and that it would be around and $80/month package for iPhone users. The AT&T guy was telling him as if it was 100% factual, but I know it had to just be his guess because if there was any word on the price, I'm sure it'd be all over the web.

[vln2]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Do you think that's the official word from AT&T, or just a salesman's guess? So far we haven't been told the price.

Anyway, if it is $39.99, that's about what I expected.

Hey, I have seen items I was not supposed to see and I think the rep had good information.

[DigitalEl]

Originally Posted by vln2

I found out about the cost of unlimited iPhone data plan, as I expected it is not a bargain - $39.99/month.

That is speculation, at best an educated guess. Nothing more, as the plan(s) have not yet been announced.

Originally Posted by vln2

I have seen both new carrying cases – one horizontal and one vertical made by Belkin. It is hard to say which one would work better. Horizontal one is more bulky but it is easier to get the iPhone out.

Good to see they're making good on the promise to have some accessories out for launch.

[Stogieman]

Speaking of accessories, do you think Apple will have the bluetooth headset ready for launch? I read somewhere that the headset had passed FCC approval just weeks ago. I'm still waiting for Apple to give us price.

Edit: I found the article.
iPhone headset sees last-minute FCC nod

[icruise]

I heard a price of $120 in one of the many iPhone articles I was reading, but I don't know how much stock to put into that. I believe it will be ready in time, though.

[GatorsFan]

[Cue music soundtrack]

No, that's not a roll of quarters in my pocket. I really am that excited over the dawning of "iDay" at my favorite super-sleek and sexy Apple store. When the doors open at 6 PM, I'll try to be the first to throw myself at the feet of a clerk and breathlessly beg him or her to accept my wheelbarrow of money. I fully plan to shriek loudly, and to cry unabashedly, when, at last, the iPhone is in my hot little hands.

If my real-life friends decide to vote me off the island, who cares? At least I'll have my iPhone, my sweetie, my precious. Smeegle would understand.

[vln2]

Apple Bluetooth will be available at least in some stores on June 29th.
I already have several headsets and the noise canceling is the most important feature. I would not buy any headset without it. I do not know if Apple’s Bluetooth headset has it.
The best headset in that regard is probably Jawbone but it is big. It filters most noise and people told me that they could hear me best on that one. It uses military technology and has a sensor sitting directly on your cheek and picking up vibrations as you speak. The thing then filters the surrounding noise from the actual voice.

Before that I loved Jabra JX10. It is small, sits in your ear and you can hear everything perfectly. Incoming sound is probably better then in Jawbone. Problem is that other people complained that they sometimes could not hear me – it is so short and the mic can not pick up what you are saying. I also have a decent Phillips but it picks up noise. Motorola headsets are the worse, it is just waist of money. I think Plantronics makes one long skinny model with voice canceling. I talked to some friends who use it and they love it.
Apple model looks good at the picture (sits inside the ear and extends out enough to pick up your voice). I have no idea if it has voice canceling, without it I would not waist my money on it. For the same price you can get a set with that feature. It also does not have a hear hook of any kind at the picture so I do not know how well it will stay without popping out when you least expect it.

[Drakino]

Originally Posted by vln2 

Her old T-Mobile SIM card would not work with AT&T phones but they had a reader which was able to transfer her Contacts to her new AT&T SIM card.
So I guess old SIM cards are only good to transfer old data to new AT&T SIM cards and yes, all new phones including iPhone will need to be programmed with an old number in the store. Her new phone was able to receive calls under her old T-Mobile number within an hour.

SIMs are locked to the carrier. Phones out of the box are typically also locked to the carrier. Phones can be unlocked to work on any carrier (and doing so is legal currently in the US via a DMCA exemption even if the provider won't do it). If you have an unlocked phone, a SIM from AT&T or T-Mobile would work in it, as well as one from Orange (UK) or any other GSM provider.

[vln2]

Originally Posted by Drakino 

SIMs are locked to the carrier. Phones out of the box are typically also locked to the carrier. Phones can be unlocked to work on any carrier (and doing so is legal currently in the US via a DMCA exemption even if the provider won't do it). If you have an unlocked phone, a SIM from AT&T or T-Mobile would work in it, as well as one from Orange (UK) or any other GSM provider.

Interesting... so theoretically unlocked iPhone let's could work with other carriers, at least unofficially. All we need is some skilled programmers with lots of time on their hands ready to mess up their new iPhone to prove that they can succeed.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by vln2 

Interesting... so theoretically unlocked iPhone let's could work with other carriers, at least unofficially. All we need is some skilled programmers with lots of time on their hands ready to mess up their new iPhone to prove that they can succeed.

But the iPhone would be crippled. Not sure to what extent, but for sure you wouldn't get Visual Voicemail. I would assume there are other things that wouldn't work as well. I just dont get why anyone would want to spend that much on an iPhone and not be able to use some of its great features.

[stevesnj]

Some pics of the setup for launch. The AT&T store is 200 feet from this Apple store so its a great backup to have the Apple Store so close just in case!!!



http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1423/...61cbcb.jpg?v=0

[venus62890]

I originally thought... YES. iPhone. MUST. HAVE. Then I thought about it, $599... sure it's an awesome device, but it could be so much more awesome. Edge is going to be too slow, just... too slow. Even with the Wi-Fi, most new routers are sold with built in WPA, which would make it impossible to simply just use the iPhone's internet off of a rouge wireless connection. If Apple says the multitouch typing is easy, I tend to not agree. Tactile feedback is almost a prerequisite for entering data. The satisfying click of a button allow us humans to know we can... HIT THE NEXT BUTTON. Apple could've designed a hell of a keypad, yet took the easy way out and made a touch screen that could accept more than one input, pfft. I'm not an iPhone hater, I just think it could be better. Especially the storage space. If you're going to do an iPod in a phone (that can play video especially) at least give it enough space to store the video. My music library is at least 4GB alone, which leaves no space left on the $499 model and half the space taken on the $599 model. I think as a rule most people use their iPod's as a backup medium, a place they can retrieve their music in the event their computer... dies. So the iPhone needs to be cheaper... more space, tactile feedback, and DEFINITELY 3G.

[DigitalEl]

Originally Posted by venus62890

Blah, blah, blah...

So the iPhone needs to be cheaper... more space, tactile feedback, and DEFINITELY 3G.

Welcome to February's arguments.

Do you have anything new to add?

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by DigitalEl 

Welcome to February's arguments.

Do you have anything new to add?

yeah when can i get one in shiitt brown?

[DigitalEl]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

yeah when can i get one in shiitt brown?

That'll come after the special edition Halo version for the bois and the Hello Kitty version for the grlz.

[amacboy]

I will!!

[cSurfr]

Originally Posted by vln2 

In preparation for Friday I went with my wife to the AT&T store and we bought for her Nokia N75 which surprisingly truly shows most of the websites. Her old T-Mobile SIM card would not work with AT&T phones but they had a reader which was able to transfer her Contacts to her new AT&T SIM card.
So I guess old SIM cards are only good to transfer old data to new AT&T SIM cards and yes, all new phones including iPhone will need to be programmed with an old number in the store. Her new phone was able to receive calls under her old T-Mobile number within an hour.
It turned out to be worth to go to that store and setup new AT&T account now – we got $50 gas gift certificate (offered only until June 28th). On the 29th when I go and buy iPhone changing our plan to shared I will get another $20 gas gift certificate. That $70 will help offset costs of both phones.

I found out about the cost of unlimited iPhone data plan, as I expected it is not a bargain - $39.99/month.
I have seen both new carrying cases – one horizontal and one vertical made by Belkin. It is hard to say which one would work better. Horizontal one is more bulky but it is easier to get the iPhone out. Belkin’s case requires sliding the iPhone out all the way up vertically from the tight black leather case and that could scratch the device even though it has optical glass cover.

Opening time is 6pm, not AM. They will close the store early, reorganize it, receive the shipment and open the doors at 6pm.
That makes things worse for me because in the afternoon there will be huge line of people waiting. I guess we do not have a choice.

You're right, and you're wrong. . . . First off, a T-Mobile sim will never work on the AT&T Network, so the only thing they would be able to do is move the contacts over. Secondly, Apple has said that the iphone has a sim tray, meaning the sim is removable. . . so no programming is required. Is it so hard for people to really understand that the sim contains all of your network and phone info? GSM phones have NEVER needed programming. That is the reason why GSM is the world standard and CDMA never really took off. People like the ability to buy any unlocked GSM phone they want, put their sim card in and take off. The iphone will be the exact same way.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by cSurfr 

... Apple has said that the iphone has a sim tray, meaning the sim is removable. . . so no programming is required.

where did you hear this from Apple? Is it in any of the specs Apple has made public?

[vln2]

Originally Posted by venus62890 

I originally thought... YES. iPhone. MUST. HAVE. Then I thought about it, $599...
If Apple says the multitouch typing is easy, I tend to not agree. Tactile feedback is almost a prerequisite for entering data. The satisfying click of a button allow us humans to know we can... HIT THE NEXT BUTTON. Apple could've designed a hell of a keypad, yet took the easy way out and made a touch screen that could accept more than one input.... So the iPhone needs to be cheaper... more space, tactile feedback, and DEFINITELY 3G.

First of all I agree that we all are going to be cheated by having to spend $600 on the old Edge technology while Apple is going to sell 3G in Europe.
Does it mean that Apple cares more about European market? Yes, they just know that Europeans are not stupid and would not go for Edge while we will buy whatever Apple cares to give us.
What makes me mad is that the European 3G iPhone may not work here so people in America will have to upgrade (say big $$$) to new 3G iPhone (another round on ingenuous marketing) probably next year. I will try the Edge and if it does not live to my expectations I will drop it as long as they let me. I got used to using Wi-Fi only at home and work on T-Mobile and learned to use other people Access Points everywhere else. Too bad that Mini NetStumbler will not work on iPhone.

As far as the keyboard thing I think your argument is laughable. I’ve been using PDAs for 8 years now and I use virtual keyboard with the stylus faster and more accurate then anyone can type with even full QUERTY PDA keyboard. Just get used to it. I find typing on regular cell phone unbearable. I have never used attachable keyboard on my T-Mobile HP IPAQ. You will have plenty of external keyboards working with iPhone if you really want it, not to mention soon to be released keyboards which will project light and you could type on any flat surface. Personal advise – get used to the stylus. I rarely mistype things that way unless I am driving on the expressway.

Memory … yes, we should be able to add some sort of SD to iPhone. But Apple knows that we want more memory so they want us to pay lot of money for 8 Gig model. At some point iPhone may have to add some sort of SD slot if the marked catches up and they feel pressured to do so. This is not the time and they can dictate whatever they want. All Apple’s faithful will just line up anyway and find money to buy the new revelation. I just hope I will not be regretting this move next week.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by vln2 

First of all I agree that we all are going to be cheated by having to spend $600 on the old Edge technology while Apple is going to sell 3G in Europe.
Does it mean that Apple cares more about European market? Yes, they just know that Europeans are not stupid and would not go for Edge while we will buy whatever Apple cares to give us.

That's just plain ignorant. Apple has stated many times why they chose EDGE for this version of the iPhone. Its a completely reasonable argument by Apple. I don't see why anyone would think Apple is trying to screw Americans over because Apple cares more for European market. Apple is indifferent to the markets.

If you don't know why Apple chose EDGE for this version, go look it up.

[venus62890]

So the point of the stylus. I agree with that, but the multitouch on an iPhone... needs an actual human finger. The matrix that allows it to recognize the finger is done differently then pressure sensitivity with a normal touch screen, it requires more push, and a stylus would be putting a lot of extra pressure on the screen, not to mention completely obliterating the whole need for multitouch. I have a Nintendo DS and text entering couldn't be easier with a stylus, so sure, they could've done an iPhone more suited to use a stylus, or they could've done some cool pseudo tactile touch screen. A company is only as strong as it's customers wallets are full, we shouldn't have to buy something because were compelled to, it's happened time and time again, 1G Apple products don't normally make the cut. For all those Apple faithful who take the $499/$599 leap... have fun, and make sure to complain. It'll be you who whine about what the iPhone is lacking, and in turn make it into a hell of a cell phone.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by venus62890 

I have a Nintendo DS and text entering couldn't be easier with a stylus, so sure, they could've done an iPhone more suited to use a stylus, or they could've done some cool pseudo tactile touch screen.

Yeah, they could've done that. And it would've ended up just like every other phone. Having used a bevy of PDAs that use styli (and yes, the DS) I'm very glad that the iPhone doesn't use one. Although I obviously haven't used the iPhone yet, it seems like a paradigm shift similar to what happened when computers went from command lines to mouse-based GUIs. The stylus is basically just a replacement for a mouse, and when you have one, software designers always seem to fall back on metaphors that work on a desktop computer (drop-down menus, scroll bars, check boxes, etc) instead of really thinking about what might be appropriate for a mobile device.

Like the old command line-based computer interface, stylus-based interfaces force the user to adapt to the device's way of doing things. (The ultimate example of this was the Palm Pilot, which actually had the user learn a new alphabet just to enter text!) The iPhone is doing the opposite. They started with the most basic pointing device we have -- the finger -- and designed the entire OS around it. In other words, the device has been made to suit people, not the other way around.

[vln2]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Yeah, they could've done that. And it would've ended up just like every other phone. Having used a bevy of PDAs that use styli (and yes, the DS) I'm very glad that the iPhone doesn't use one. Although I obviously haven't used the iPhone yet, it seems like a paradigm shift similar to what happened when computers went from command lines to mouse-based GUIs. The stylus is basically just a replacement for a mouse, and when you have one, software designers always seem to fall back on metaphors that work on a desktop computer (drop-down menus, scroll bars, check boxes, etc) instead of really thinking about what might be appropriate for a mobile device.

Yes... multitouch. I would like to see how the screen will look after running sweaty fingers all over it, especially now during the summer. I always tried to avoid touching my PDA screen with fingers because of the smudges. I hope Apple comes up with a liquid cleaner kit and extra space in the pouch for that. Too bad I already ordered the horizontal case and couple cheap clear plastic covers from Amazon.
We bought a cute flip Nokia N75 with great looking screen for my wife at AT&T sore. Just after couple days it is hard to see through the layer of "stuff" on top of it. Yet we did not even run our fingers through it. Another interesting thing about Nokia: I was sold on it after pulling a typical news website which looked like on a good PDA or a computer.
It turns out it runs Symbian S60 OS and Nokia Web Browser which uses elements of Apple software, same one which powers Safari on iPhone. More advanced version of that browser is used by Nokia N95 which is even more expensive then iPhone at around $695.

Yes, I am used to the stylus for typing on PDA but I guess I am trainable. For typing on iPhone I guess I will have to grow longer left corner of my right thumb to provide more of a “point”. Perhaps that will be a solution for those of us blessed with sizable finger endings. Those letter keys on the virtual keyboard did not look large enough for my fingers if I would have to use them for typing on iPhone. I was thinking of using stylus for that purpose but perhaps I can “nail” the solution to that problem.

I started using my wife’s old phone and if the lines on Friday are ridiculous I will happily wait for your first reactions.

[Phil333]

To above poster, apparently the screen does get smudges but using a shirt they come off quite easily.

[Brian Live]

Originally Posted by krove 

I'm definitely waiting in line, camping, whatever it takes to get one. I've never camped or waited in line for anything, but I think the iPhone is definitely worth it.

I'm curious as to what the ratio between the 4 GB and 8 GB models will be. I'm sure Apple knows that most of us early adopters are going to want that 8 GB. What about you guys? 4 or 8?

I would prefer the 4GB and save a $100. Both are way too small for my iTunes collection, so it will used primarily for "travel music" on a plane, etc. The iPod portion is just gravy to me.

[vln2]

Originally Posted by Phil333 

To above poster, apparently the screen does get smudges but using a shirt they come off quite easily.

I tried your method with my new 8 Gig iPhone and most of the smudges are gone but now the greasy film is there.
After using iPhone though I have to say that it has surpassed my expectations. Typing is a problem and it will take some time to get used to it. So far just too many mistakes.
Edge is really slow but it runs great on WiFi.
Google map is great, did not even know that they have updated the satellite pictures of our house.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Although I obviously haven't used the iPhone yet, it seems like a paradigm shift similar to what happened when computers went from command lines to mouse-based GUIs.

Paradigm shift? I was using my fingers to enter text on my Palm Pilot back in '99.

Originally Posted by icruise 

(The ultimate example of this was the Palm Pilot, which actually had the user learn a new alphabet just to enter text!) The iPhone is doing the opposite. They started with the most basic pointing device we have -- the finger -- and designed the entire OS around it. In other words, the device has been made to suit people, not the other way around.

Not entirely true. The Palm Pilot's alphabet wasn't completely "new", but rather a modification of an already learned language. The iPhone also requires some learning, as evidenced by those saying they haven't yet mastered it's keyboard/alphabet.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Paradigm shift? I was using my fingers to enter text on my Palm Pilot back in '99.

Don't you mean your fingernails? The paradigm shift part is that the UI on the iPhone is made for your fingers, and the Palm OS definitely was not. Plus, the screens on normal PDAs require the use of a stylus (or fingernail), so you can't just tap the screen like you can with the iPhone.

Not entirely true. The Palm Pilot's alphabet wasn't completely "new", but rather a modification of an already learned language. The iPhone also requires some learning, as evidenced by those saying they haven't yet mastered it's keyboard/alphabet.

True, it's more like learning shorthand. And I got fairly good at it after a while, but I never liked it. I'm already very good with the iPhone keyboard. It's not so much practice that you need as the ability to trust the iPhone's auto-correction software. Once you do that, it works surprisingly well.