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boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 02:11 PM

I would like the opions of people who have owned or just used a 12" G4 powerbook. I am looking at picking one up as a second laptop. My wife who does graphic design is more likely to use the MBP that we have, so I figured I would buy myself something small that I can just screw around with and use for wireless internet. Would I be better off spending the extra cash and picking up a C2D macbook? I think I can find a decent 12" PB on ebay for around 600-700 and the macbooks that I would want is around 1100. Let me know what you guys think.

peeb · Apr 23, 2007, 02:26 PM

It's a great machine, and has a dedicated graphics card, which the mb lacks. Depends what you need it for whether the mb is worth the extra money.

shabbasuraj · Apr 23, 2007, 02:51 PM

12" is an awesome machine. Form factor was excellent.

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 02:53 PM

Pretty much all I would use it for is messing around the internet, and just basic everyday use. I "might" put CS2 on it just incase my wife wants a smaller laptop to take along somewhere instead of the 15" MBP we have. I think it could handle it, but probably only one or two programs at once. The MBP with 1 GB ram already gets taxed pretty good with photoshop, illustrator, and indesign open.

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by shabbasuraj

12" is an awesome machine. Form factor was excellent.

Yeah, but will be it an awesome machine to keep using for years to come? I dont want something that within a year or so is completely worthless. Would that be the case here or do they have staying power. I know a guy at my work that STILL uses a Pismo for his main laptop.

shabbasuraj · Apr 23, 2007, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by boss99er

Yeah, but will be it an awesome machine to keep using for years to come? .

Any computer goes obselete. This is a fact.

However, the 12" PB was the top of the line for many years in the Apple lineup.. so whether or not it will be useful to you for years to come all depends on what you intend on doing with it.

Only you know the answer.

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 03:15 PM

Oh yeah, I know that computers become obselete. Here is our full computer lineup as of now. I have my old 400 mhz powermac sawtooth, she has a 800mhz imac, and our newest is the 15" 2.16 MBP with 256 graphics card. So, I know about obselete...after using that sawtooth for so long. Thing is....I still use it though. It works perfectly fine for sitting down and looking around the internet. It might not be the fastest, but I have let that thing run for 30-40 days straight and it hasnt crashed more times that I can count on my hands since I have owned it. How bothersome is the 12" screen? For those of you that have used it, does it seem really too small, or dont you notice the smaller size too much?

peeb · Apr 23, 2007, 03:16 PM

It will certainly not be obsolete in a year. However, you are buying, in the best case, an 18month old machine that is not made any more. I would estimate that, if you are using it for internet, light office, and a bit of light CS, it should be usable for at least 2-3 years. Don't kid yourself that it will be a speed demon when compared to more modern machines.

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 03:20 PM

Yeah, i'm not expecting a speed demon. Its just that for what I use a computer for, the MBP is way better suited to be my wifes main machine. And for myself, I just wanna play. I know plenty about how computers work and how fast they go out of date, I work in IT for a design firm....mostly macs here. When I go home, I dont really want to do any work on a computer, I just want to cruise the internet and maybe listen to some music on it while sitting on the couch.

peeb · Apr 23, 2007, 03:24 PM

Sounds like the PB12 would suit you well.

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 03:42 PM

Yeah, it sounds like it might. I just wish I could use one before I buy one. Thats the problem with ebay and stuff like that. I actually want to try a machine out before I buy it.

Aron Peterson · 02:45 PM

I skinned mine in leather

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 03:55 PM

Ha ha, NICE!!! So you have one of your own? How do you like it? What are your thoughts on it for every day usage. If you read what I wrote before, I just want something I can kick back on the couch and use for internet and itunes and that sort of thing. Does the small screen bother you?

Aron Peterson · Apr 23, 2007, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by boss99er

Ha ha, NICE!!! So you have one of your own? How do you like it? What are your thoughts on it for every day usage. If you read what I wrote before, I just want something I can kick back on the couch and use for internet and itunes and that sort of thing. Does the small screen bother you?

The 12" is the model I have used the longest. I've had it since January 2005 and it has gotten nippier with each OS update. I don't know what it will be like in a year's time but it is faster now than when I bought it.

Form factor is perfect. It has that perfect balance of weight and dimensions so that it sits perfectly on your lap. It's also the most portable and durable Mac I've used with the most solid keyboard.

The screen size is good (I went from a 17" model to this!). Exposé made cluttered windows a thing of the past no matter what the size of the screen is. Battery life is very good too.

However, regardless of how good it is it's 2007 and Leopard is around the corner. Unless you can find a perfectly working 12" PowerBook for an exceptionally low price, I'd still go for a MacBook Pro because it might be hard to justify buying a G4 today when for only a few hundred more you can pick up an dual-core Intel.

It really depends on how cheap you can get a 12" PB for. Make sure it is in perfect working order too. Test everything when buying a machine that could be up to 2 years old.

bearcatrp · Apr 23, 2007, 04:06 PM

I just sold my 12 inch powerbook. Hated to but needed the cash to help pay for my mac pro. I loved that little thing. Best laptop I have ever owned. Very portable. Not the speediest around but for surfing the net and some games, worked great. I never had a problem with mine but have heard others with rev A had problems. Apple is stupid for not making another 12 inch but have heard rumors of an ultra portable. Hope its around a 10 inch. If you can get one, go for it. BTW, Yellow dog linux ran great on it to.
Randy

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 04:14 PM

What are the known problems with the PB12? Anything to look for or ask about?

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 04:21 PM

Will the PB12 be able to run leopard? What are the requirements supposed to be for that? Also, how upgradeable are they? I know they are limited to 1.25GB ram, but what else? How about HD's and processors?

rach · Apr 23, 2007, 04:29 PM

If you are after a small laptop maybe the iBook last revison 12 inch maybe a good one to consider as well. The last rev iBook has a better graphic card in it than the one in the PB although the PB does have a larger VRAM the iBook has a superior faster card.

If your hooked though on the design of the PB go for it.
These tests are interesting, if you put in a faster drive in the iBook it would equal the speeds of the PB HD.
PowerBook & iBook Performance

mfbernstein · Apr 23, 2007, 04:30 PM

12" PB will definitely be able to run Leopard. So far, the Leopard beta will run on anything with Firewire and a G4 or higher (and it's quite possible that a small subset of G3s will be added for the final version).

Daystar offers a processor upgrade to the 12" PB (an model actually), that'll get you to 1.67GHZ. Hard drive is currently limited to 160GB (largest shipping 2.5" ATA drive, but that will likely increase.

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 04:42 PM

Whoa, so you can buy a 1.67 GHz upgrade for these things? Are the upgrades reliable? I remember when Sonnet started making 1.8Ghz upgrades for the G4 powermacs they sucked. They were always crashing and stuff like that. Can they handle a 7200 160 GB hd? I suppose I could find this stuff out by researching, but hey, it seems people like to talk about these little buggers.

Jens Peter · Apr 23, 2007, 04:53 PM

I have a 12" powerbook from febuary '05, and it's a great machine! Now, I use it for web, email, itunes and my photos without any problems. No problems so far. I hope to be using this machine in a year from now, unless Apple unveils a 12" mpb or somethin like that. But then I'm sure I'll still keep the powerbook around

Aron Peterson · Apr 23, 2007, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by boss99er

Whoa, so you can buy a 1.67 GHz upgrade for these things? Are the upgrades reliable?

There's a 2Ghz upgrade for the 15 and 17 inch models. I'm holding out for that or faster because I'm keeping my 12 until it dies even when I get a new Mac.

peeb · Apr 23, 2007, 05:14 PM

Where?

Aron Peterson · Apr 23, 2007, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by peeb

Where?

Daystar. Read Barefeats' benchmarks.

http://www.barefeats.com/pbcd.html

peeb · Apr 23, 2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

Daystar. Read Barefeats' benchmarks.

MacBook Pro 2.0 versus PowerBook, iMac Core Duo, and Power Mac

Wow. 400USD though, it's hard to see that that is really a cost effective way to go - seems like that money would be better spent in the 'save for an mbp fund'.

boss99er · Apr 23, 2007, 05:37 PM

Yeah, I was kinda thinking that myself. I can see spending around 6-700 for the actual computer, but putting another 400 into it seems overkill.

Aron Peterson · Apr 23, 2007, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by boss99er

Yeah, I was kinda thinking that myself. I can see spending around 6-700 for the actual computer, but putting another 400 into it seems overkill.

If you're after a PowerBook (any model) don't pay a penny over 35-40% of the original retail price. Stick to your guns on that otherwise buy a newer computer.

Sub · Apr 23, 2007, 08:05 PM

The 12" was My favorite mac, I have a G5 now, and use the 12" only a little bit when I travel, I am trying to take care of it, because I don't think apple is going to put out anything like it anytime soon. The size of it was amazing, the first thing I noticed was how well hidden the hinge for the LCD was, and how it doesn't show all those holes for screws on it like it's competition. I also loved how the ports were accessable without turning the computer around and searching around the LCD to find it, and I love how the speakers are hidden behind it, but allow sound to flow to you, like the macbooks.

praterkeith · Apr 23, 2007, 08:33 PM

I use a 12 incher for my main computer now and I will not get anything else until a 12" mbp comes out. And if that never happens, then it will be 2046 and I will still be using Tiger on my 12" pb...
OK maybe thats a little out there, I'm just sayin' I love mine!

imitchellg5 · Apr 23, 2007, 09:35 PM

They are great for portability. I have a 867 MHz 12" with 640 Mb of RAM. It's a great machine. I would highly recommend it. It's not my main computer due to the small screen size, but it's great for trips.

ginoledesma · Apr 24, 2007, 03:34 AM

I loved my PowerBook G4 12". By far best Mac portable I've had (iBook G4 and MacBook 2GHz). While the MacBook is a screamer, I miss the portability and durability of the PB G4 12". I'm hoping Apple makes a lighter and smaller model one of these days...

The PB G4 12" can run most, if not all, of the software I need (I do programming/systems admin/networking mostly). It also has most of the features I'd need (burn DVDs, edit short videos, photos, etc). Only weakpoint in the long-run I suppose would be video-playback (especially with more and more videos being offered in higher-res/more demanding codecs.)

boss99er · Apr 24, 2007, 10:50 AM

Arrrrgh, this is a tough call. I cant decide to spend the extra cash and buy a blackbook, or spend half of that and buy a PB12. This is going to be one of those long decisions. I can at least go try out a macbook, I cant just try out a PB12.

Aron Peterson · Apr 24, 2007, 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by boss99er

Arrrrgh, this is a tough call. I cant decide to spend the extra cash and buy a blackbook, or spend half of that and buy a PB12. This is going to be one of those long decisions. I can at least go try out a macbook, I cant just try out a PB12.

Buy the PB12 if you can get it for half the price of the BlacBook.

Buy the BlacBook if you need the CPU power.

Macola · 10:59 AM

My 12" PB was the best laptop I've owned, as far as the overall design and form factor goes. I kept waiting for Apple to release an Intel equivalent. I ended up buying a MacBook, which I also like, but it's just not the same.

That said, I wouldn't spend $700 on a used PB, when you can get a refurb MacBook for under $900.

boss99er · Apr 24, 2007, 11:12 AM

Yeah, thats true that I can get a pretty cheap macbook. I really dont like the white though. If I got one, I would want the black...thats just me being picky though. I still dont know what I will do. If I could get my hands on a PB12 and actually try it out...it might be a different story.

mfbernstein · Apr 24, 2007, 12:39 PM

Never understood why the PB12 was so much more popular than the 12" G4 iBook. The difference for the last generation is .3 lbs, an aluminum case, .17GHZ, and a marginally better video card. Otherwise, they're effectively the same machine (except the iBook seems to have a sturdier case, and better wireless reception, not to mention a higher RAM ceiling).

amazing · Apr 24, 2007, 12:42 PM

Apple Store refurbs has the 1.5 ghz 12" Combo for $1100, and the 15. ghz 12" Superdrive for $1200. Pretty steep, considering that they have a 1.83 C2D Macbook Combo for $950.

You may not like white, but you can always put stickers on it! I've got stickers on my 12" 1.33,

PS: no way would I go for a used 12" when you can get a refurb Macbook for $950, which will have a one-year warranty, built-in isight, plus it's much faster. The only drawback is if you really, really hate glossy screens.

Aron Peterson · Apr 24, 2007, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by mfbernstein

Never understood why the PB12 was so much more popular than the 12" G4 iBook. The difference for the last generation is .3 lbs, an aluminum case, .17GHZ, and a marginally better video card. Otherwise, they're effectively the same machine (except the iBook seems to have a sturdier case, and better wireless reception, not to mention a higher RAM ceiling).

The PB had a brighter screen, more solid build quality, better keyboard and, I think, faster system bus. The keyboard is the real difference. It's remarkably solid compared to the other PBs and the plastic tackiness of the iBook's keyboard.

Aron Peterson · Apr 24, 2007, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by amazing

Apple Store refurbs has the 1.5 ghz 12" Combo for $1100, and the 15. ghz 12" Superdrive for $1200.

Those prices are criminal. If they're going to be so steep they should beef up all the specs - HDD, CPU, RAM.

cwosigns · Apr 24, 2007, 12:58 PM

I've had two 12" PowerBooks (867 MHz and 1.5 GHz) and they both were excellent computers. Build quality was great; I never had any issues at all.

mfbernstein · Apr 24, 2007, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

The PB had a brighter screen, more solid build quality, better keyboard and, I think, faster system bus. The keyboard is the real difference. It's remarkably solid compared to the other PBs and the plastic tackiness of the iBook's keyboard.

I don't agree about the build quality: aluminum case takes scratches very easily. Bus is faster, you're right (167MHZ vs. 133MHZ). I never saw much of a difference screenwise. Keyboard is a question of personal preference, I guess.

The only reason to get a refurb. PB 12" instead of a used one is for the warranty. Doubt Apple will drop prices on them again (and the eBay prices for the PB 12" are going insane).

12" MBP, where are you?

OSUwarch · Apr 24, 2007, 01:09 PM

I have a rev D 12 pb and I love it. Great form factor, rock solid computer that has never caused me any trouble. My wife has a 1 month old 2.0 ghz core 2 duo macbook. Here are a few of my observations.

-Macbook is noticeable bigger than the pb. I know it has a 1 inch bigger screan but it looks a feels big compared to my pb.
-The macbook is noticeably warmer on my lap compared to my pb. Everything I can find is this is normal, but my pb is a true laptop.
-Hard to complain about how the pb looks. My wife liked the white macbook but I would have to get the black as well. This means your looking at $600-700 for the pb and 1500 for the macbook
-Keyboard on the macbook is not even close to the pb. I love the pb keyboard. In my opinion its the best on any laptop. It has great feel and response for a touch typist.

If it were me I would spend say 550-650 for a 12 pb (preferable rev D)upgrade the ram and enjoy. I think we are going to be waiting quite some time for an ultra portable mac or a 12" mbp. I won't carry around one of those 15" or 17" behemoths. Hope this helps best of luck.

boss99er · Apr 24, 2007, 02:07 PM

How do I know what revision they are. Was there a serial number range I should look for?

iREZ · Apr 24, 2007, 03:13 PM

everytime i see a 12" powerbook, i get a lil choked up seeing how i miss my 12" pb soooo much. it was way more portable than the mbp i have now, if only they had given it some balls with a decent gpu and a slightly higher resolution.

i think the 12" is still a great computer and will hold up for 'screw around' purposes quite well.

rev a: 867mhz
rev b: 1ghz
rev c: 1.33ghz
rev d: 1.5

boss99er · Apr 24, 2007, 04:00 PM

So any 1.33 or 1.5 will be ok to buy......assuming everything else is in line? I really wish I could find someone close by to try out before I try buying one. The macbook for only 950 is looking pretty tempting though...even though its just that plain white.

Flagheimer · Apr 24, 2007, 04:28 PM

I LOVE my 12" PB! I've had it ever since 2004 when I was in High School, now I'm in college and it's my primary computer -- all of my college stuff is in this puppy, along with music files, pictures, and the like... Just a few weeks ago, the HD was dying, so I went and replaced it -- I don't want to let this thing go!

SierraDragon · Apr 24, 2007, 04:33 PM

For your stated needs the PB is a better choice. When you exceed the performance capability of a 12" PB then step up to a MBP rather than the much lesser MB.

-Allen Wicks

iREZ · Apr 24, 2007, 06:48 PM

i disaggree...the mb is a far superior computer than the 12". the 12" form factor i just too damn awesome though, i loved it and will never love another computer as much, my friends used to call it my child.

cwosigns · Apr 24, 2007, 07:17 PM

Why not look for a used MacBook on Craigslist? I just sold my old one for $800 and it was in great shape. Also, you get the benefit of dealing locally and avoiding shipping/eBay costs.

fisherKing · Apr 24, 2007, 07:29 PM

i went from a 1.33g 12" to my current, a 1.5g 12"; i chose this over a mbp (at least for now).
one thing: the heat is much less on the newer machine (and for me, i moved up to an 80g hd, and a superdrive).

this is my fave mac ever. i can push it pretty hard (i run logic & reason together on it); i know the newer macs are more powerful, but i love the form factor, and carry it everywhere...