[Eug Wanker]

Adios Avie

Avadis "Avie" Tevanian, Apple Computer's Chief Technology Officer, is leaving the firm to "pursue other interests," the company confirmed Monday. Tevanian, who came to Apple in 1997 from his previous post working for Steve Jobs at NeXT, played a key role in developing Mac OS X, the company's widely adored operating system.

Although Apple wouldn't say what Tevanian's plans are, Vice President of Worldwide Corporate Communications Katie Cotton wrote in an e-mail that, "He plans to take some time off in the interim. He hasn't left yet, though. His last official day is March 31."

[Mastrap]

Nine years is a long time. Good luck with whatever he does next.

[SirCastor]

Yeah, here's to Avie, and all he's done for us.

[production_coordinator]

He is a genius... and it is going to be very difficult to fill his shoes.

I had the chance to hear him talk at Carnegie Mellon University...

[CharlesS]

Here's to Avie.

[turtle777]

That's bad news for Apple. Hope they find someone worthy to follow...

-t

[Big Mac]

Very bad news indeed. Never a good thing when a company loses a key genius. Perhaps he's disgruntled over the Intel switch.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Very bad news indeed. Never a good thing when a company loses a key genius. Perhaps he's disgruntled over the Intel switch.

Heh. Probably not, since NeXT was heavily into x86 before it was bought out by Apple. In fact, as we all know, NeXT was heavily into x86 after the buyout too, as OS X Intel.

[OldManMac]

Wonder what he did to upset Steve.

[Eug Wanker]

Maybe he just felt that with an AAPL stock price of $60 and his bazillion shares, he could semi-retire.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Nine years is a long time. Good luck with whatever he does next.

Here's my guess.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Very bad news indeed. Never a good thing when a company loses a key genius. Perhaps he's disgruntled over the Intel switch.

I'm sure that's it.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Adios Avie

Is that a typo (Adios instead of spanish Adiós) or do americans use 'Adios' without the accent mark over vowel as another legit way to see good bye?

[ism]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Is that a typo (Adios instead of spanish Adiós) or do americans use 'Adios' without the accent mark over vowel as another legit way to see good bye?

As a general rule native English speakers (for want of a better description) don't have a clue how to get any of the squiggly lines or dots that appear above letters (accented characters). That goes for me as well. And since we are lazy in languages in general, and can't be bothered to figure it out, that's what happens.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Is that a typo (Adios instead of spanish Adiós) or do americans use 'Adios' without the accent mark over vowel as another legit way to see good bye?

Adios is often used in English (without the accent).

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Is that a typo (Adios instead of spanish Adiós) or do americans use 'Adios' without the accent mark over vowel as another legit way to see good bye?

Those of us in the US dont' have those funky things on our keyboards, and aren't really interested in figuring out what combinations of keystrokes would make them show up.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Those of us in the US dont' have those funky things on our keyboards, and aren't really interested in figuring out what combinations of keystrokes would make them show up.

Was that sarcasm or a genuine declaration of ignorance among Americans?

cheers

W-Y

[production_coordinator]

He is older, rich, and WELL educated. He may simply be tired of the stress... and the major transition for Apple has happened, so now would be a good time.

[production_coordinator]

I'm an American, and I say the "ó" is just fine.

[wdlove]

Sad news. I wish Avie all the best. Maybe he just needs to some off to refresh.

[dav]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Is that a typo (Adios instead of spanish Adiós) or do americans use 'Adios' without the accent mark over vowel as another legit way to see good bye?

this close enough for ya... adio's

[Monique]

Or what did Steve to upset him? Steve can be a hard a.. to work for at times.

[Dark Helmet]

What has he done that is so great though?

I mean OSX's finder is a disaster, every Apple 1.0 release is the slowest thing on the planet I say smell ya later and bring in some fresh blood.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Those of us in the US dont' have those funky things on our keyboards, and aren't really interested in figuring out what combinations of keystrokes would make them show up.

Come on, this is a Mac board... agreed, on Windows it's a pain in the ass to type these things, but on the Mac... option-E, then type an 'o', makes an ó.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

Those of us in the US dont' have those funky things on our keyboards, and aren't really interested in figuring out what combinations of keystrokes would make them show up.

I hope you didn't get me wrong, I was just asking about it since even when there is a huge population that can understand and speak spanish in the US, I though you would preffer to use some french equivalent, something like "Adieu Avie". Reading it in spanish just surprised me.

Originally Posted by dav

this close enough for ya... adio's

haha sure, don't worry, even spaniards have a hell of a time to figure them out… I guess it was a better choice than 'Hasta la Vista'

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

What has he done that is so great though?

He was one of the inventors of Mach.

[Eug Wanker]

Oh, I had forgotten... Jon Rubinstein is leaving too tomorrow.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

He was one of the inventors of Mach.

Sorry I guess I missed that when they taught everyone that in grade one

I bow down to your nerdiness oh nerdy one

Either way, who cares. Someone else can do it.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Sorry I guess I missed that when they taught everyone that in grade one

I bow down to your nerdiness oh nerdy one

You need to hand in your Mac fanclub card NOW.

Mach is the precursor to NeXT's OS, which is the precursor to OS X.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

You need to hand in your Mac fanclub card NOW.

Mach is the precursor to NeXT's OS, which is the precursor to OS X.

Well I get that but Mach is just the very low level stuff.

When it comes to programmers they seem to be more of a dime a dozen as really anyone can be taught to program where creative talent is more something that you are born with and can be nurtured.

Everywhere I have worked in the past the programers are always replaceable and not paid or treated as well as the creative team.

Now obviously there are some programers that can take a creative approach to efficient coding but like I said I am not all that impressed with much of Apples software when it first comes out as it is slow as all hell. OSX, iMovie, Aperture and iPhoto are good examples.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well I get that but Mach is just the very low level stuff.

When it comes to programmers they seem to be more of a dime a dozen as really anyone can be taught to program where creative talent is more something that you are born with and can be nurtured.

Everywhere I have worked in the past the programers are always replaceable and not paid or treated as well as the creative team.

Now obviously there are some programers that can take a creative approach to efficient coding but like I said I am not all that impressed with much of Apples software when it first comes out as it is slow as all hell. OSX, iMovie, Aperture and iPhoto are good examples.

Your programmers don't oversee OS development at all, much less an OS they invented and managed through all the various iterations.

Your comparison has absolutely no meaning, and smacks of the attitude of a condescending artist to be honest. The loss of such a resource in Tevanian is a big deal. He's not just-another-programmer-writing-scripts-for-webpages.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Your programmers don't oversee OS development at all, much less an OS they invented and managed through all the various iterations.

Your comparison has absolutely no meaning, and smacks of the attitude of a condescending artist to be honest. The loss of such a resource in Tevanian is a big deal. He's not just-another-programmer-writing-scripts-for-webpages.

I've been working with programmers for 7 years full time and see that is how the upper management works with them. I also have programmer friends that say the same thing to me about pay, treatment and future opportunities.

How many years you been working with programmers or Apple for that matter to know better?

[Chuckit]

So because you work with lousy companies that don't recognize what a good programmer is worth, that means a good programmer is worthless? It sounds to me like you're talking out your ass. Naive corporate policies do not facts make.

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Either way, who cares. Someone else can do it.

Well, according to this philosophy, nobody needs to get paid more than, say, 20 000$ a year, we're all equal, after all? Nobody needs Leonardo Da Vinci, nobody needs Marie Curie, nobody needs Steve Jobs? (OK, far stretched comparaison) But you should recognize that some people changed the course of history, one way or another. Be it in physical science, biology, computing, arts, politics, etc

Obviously, you are not familiar with Mach or Avie himself, so it's hard for you to appreciate what he has done. He's not just a little programmer, he's the father of a new way of doing things, in his field of expertise. In fact, your subsequent statement explains it pretty well:

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

When it comes to programmers they seem to be more of a dime a dozen as really anyone can be taught to program where creative talent is more something that you are born with and can be nurtured.

Key words: creative talent. He's the programmer that made it so easy for "disposable", lower-ranking programmers to do their jobs easily and efficiently.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by FireWire

Obviously, you are not familiar with Mach or Avie himself, so it's hard for you to appreciate what he has done.

Really? What lead you on? Was it when I said in my first post "What has he done that is so great though?"

[Chuckit]

Exactly. People can use C without any creativity just like people can use Illustrator or Quark without any creativity, but that doesn't mean everyone is equal and exchangeable.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I've been working with programmers for 7 years full time and see that is how the upper management works with them. I also have programmer friends that say the same thing to me about pay, treatment and future opportunities.

How many years you been working with programmers or Apple for that matter to know better?

I have programmer friends in project leader and management positions in large computer software/hardware companies (although not Apple). They get paid VERY well and it's very easy for them to get jobs, because people with that type of knowledge and experience are always in high demand. When they look for jobs, the interested companies fly them out to their cities, put them up in nice hotels, and wine and dine them. If they move from Canada to the US for the job, these companies will pay for all of their moving expenses, and assign a lawyer and others to handle all of their immigration and financial issues associated with the move.

Tevanian is obviously not low-end programmer grunt. It's the grunts that get treated like crap, partially because the ones that don't stand out are easy to replace. Same goes for designers too. I'm sure you'd agree there are a lot of designers out there that simply aren't that good, and upper management would have no problem replacing them in a heartbeat.

[Dark Helmet]

Steve Jobs is irreplaceable. Avie is not.

What is the name of the guy they brought in from Be that helped with Spotlight?

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Really? What lead you on? Was it when I said in my first post "What has he done that is so great though?"

In part, in addition to

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

He was one of the inventors of Mach.

Sorry I guess I missed that when they taught everyone that in grade one. [...] Either way, who cares?

If you think that Mach could have been written by any Joe Somebody, you need to read more information

Originally Posted by "Dark Helmet

Steve Jobs is irreplaceable. Avie is not.

They are both replaceable, in theory, but things would be different, very different (and probably not in a good way). Jobs gets credited for many things, but Avie is always not too far behind him, he just happens to be the "guy in the back". Jobs is the frontman that everybody recognizes. Avie is the other Steve of this era, if you will.

[Dark Helmet]

Just look how the press is handling it. It was news for a day, no stories about his history, no wondering who will replace him, no real questions as to why he is leaving.

If he is so great why do so few care?

Answer this. Other who was responsible for programming Apples home grown apps?

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Just look how the press is handling it. It was news for a day, no stories about his history, no wondering who will replace him, no real questions as to why he is leaving.

If he is so great why do so few care?

Because outsiders, people who are not familiar or interested in this field, don't care. He chose to live a quiet life, away from the limelight. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people who still don't know who Steve Jobs is, or wouldn't care if he left. News outlet have to screen what information will catch reader's (or viewer's) interest. He's not the President, just an engineer, after all! Two days of coverage would seem a little excessive, with all respects due.

[Dark Helmet]

Again, who is responsible for Apples 1st party apps?

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Again, who is responsible for Apples 1st party apps?

I don't understand what you mean/where you are going. The "1st party apps" wouldn't even run without Avie's work. He put down the foundations which support the house, if you want. The pavement under the cars.

[Edit] Anyway, I'm not comfortable with the way this thread is going. I see it more as an "obituary", a farewell thread for the "gone". Diminishing his work or achievements seems a little inappropriate, while I understand your original questioning.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by FireWire

I don't understand what you mean/where you are going. The "1st party apps" wouldn't even run without Avie's work. He put down the foundations which support the house, if you want. The pavement under the cars.

Yes yes yes. Mach is wonderful, fine.

My question for the 4th time is WHO is responsible for the development programming in the following apps:

1) ilife apps
2) Final Cut
3) Aperture
4) OSX 10.0

[FireWire]

We don't know. There are many people involved in those applications and operating system. And since some companies used to "steal" or lure employees away from Apple, the latter got into the habit of hiding who is responsible for what. Notice there is no longer a list of programmers in the "About this app" dialog box. Furthermore, I don't see how this is relevant to this thread, other than dropping names.

[Salty]

Probably not Avie!

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Yes yes yes. Mach is wonderful, fine.

My question for the 4th time is WHO is responsible for the development programming in the following apps:

1) ilife apps
2) Final Cut
3) Aperture
4) OSX 10.0

According to this page, it's a guy named Sina Tamaddon.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Person Man

According to this page, it's a guy named Sina Tamaddon.

He needs to quit. I mean iPhoto is at what version 6 and it is just now the speed of every other photo app out there?

Adobe threw out a lightroom beta in no time that was much faster than Aperture.

Avi in his role should have been more involved in this. His bio on Apples page says next to nothing of what he does at Apple and more about his history at next.

[FireWire]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

He needs to quit.

May we know how this is even remotely relevant to this thread? Why are you doing this? You don't need to derail this thread.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

His bio on Apples page says next to nothing of what he does at Apple and more about his history at next.

True. The same goes for the other persons mentioned on the Bios page. Apple's fault, not his. Did you see Steve's page? Might as well fire him, he's doing nothing!

[Dark Helmet]

So other than Mach I don't understand what he does from day to day.