[SimpleLife]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
This is America. We mostly speak English here. Stop trying to change that fact.

As you said: mostly. You just found yourself outside of the "mostly".

[legacyb4]

Let's see; exclusion of immigrants based purely on their ability to speak a language or adopt to "local" customs...

<sarcasm> As a "recent" arrival to Canada, I say why not just take your idea one step further and kick all the folks who don't meet a certain economic level out of the province/country? After all, just think how much better off economically we'd all be if everyone around you was guaranteed to be making over C$40,000/year? I mean, wouldn't you rather drive through Richmond with its tax-paying Chinese signs than the East side with all the tax-dependent dopeheads? </sarcasm>

Originally posted by Athens:
Any one notice how many immigrants come here and never learn the ways of the land. Im sure this also applies to Americans in the south too. Im not so much worried about older generations that come here and never learn English, it�s the ones that come here, have kids here and there kids never learn a word of English. I also don�t mind signs in Chinese as long as there is English with it, but I do draw the line when entire neighborhoods get transformed into Chinese or Korean and you feel like a outsider in the city you grew up in.

Im all for immigration but I think its time to force English (French for Quebec) as a mandatory requirement before citizenship. And Immigrants that reply to this all upset and saying this is unfair or racist, at least you can read this and understand and reply there fore I am not talking about you.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Randman:
It's ironic that there are so many misspelled words and poor grammar in a thread complaining about people lacking strong communication skills in English.

Correction, no one said strong, I think I have said this a dozen times now, BASIC, enough to function.

[Cody Dawg]

BTW, I happen to love Vancouver. It's really nice there. The Asian restaurants there are REALLY great. Down here we have to go down to South Beach to China Grill to get good Chinese and sushi is the same - Miami Beach. There are a couple of okay places in Boca and a good one in Orlando called Rangetsu, but other than that they are far and few between.

[Athens]

Originally posted by ambush:
It's interesting to see no reply about my "it's all about mutual respect" post. Anyway that's the way I see it.

About Qu�bec: please don't say it'll never happen. You see, we lost by 0.3% last time and it was probably because of federal frauds. Please respect the numbers and don't say never.

� SimpleLife: je respecte enti�rement tes positions mais pour toi tu n'es qu'un "qu�b�cois mou", sans fiert� d'appartenance � la nation du Qu�bec. La loi 101 n'a pas sa place? �a para�t que tu ne vivais pas dans les ann�es 30-40-50 o� t'�tais toujours servis en Anglais. Les employ�s �taient des pauvres C-F mais les gros boss anglo-saxons les obligeaient � s'adresser � leur compatriotes en Anglais pour plaire � l'occupant. Je ne parle m�me pas de l'affichage commercial, etc. Franchement, la loi 101 c'est juste logique. J'la trouve m�me trop molle sur certains points comme la langue de l'�ducation. En tous cas.

The 30's, 40's, 50's are a long time ago, that counts is now not then. 50 years ago Black Americans had to sit in the back of a bus, couldnt drink from the same water as white people. Specially coming from a kid who cant vote yet. Its like the natives that cry about what was done to them 100 years ago, unless its a really old native that actually experieneced it I dont shed a tear, specailly when its a 20 year old that has never been through the horrors of a 100 years ago. Same with Quebec. WHats now is now.

[Athens]

Originally posted by legacyb4:
Let's see; exclusion of immigrants based purely on their ability to speak a language or adopt to "local" customs...

<sarcasm> As a "recent" arrival to Canada, I say why not just take your idea one step further and kick all the folks who don't meet a certain economic level out of the province/country? After all, just think how much better off economically we'd all be if everyone around you was guaranteed to be making over C$40,000/year? I mean, wouldn't you rather drive through Richmond with its tax-paying Chinese signs than the East side with all the tax-dependent dopeheads? </sarcasm>

I don't believe in kicking any one out or revoking whats already been given. We have to live with our mistakes, not make them pay for our mistakes, but we can start to correct our mistakes now.

Orginally posted by Cody Dowg:
BTW, I happen to love Vancouver. It's really nice there. The Asian restaurants there are REALLY great. Down here we have to go down to South Beach to China Grill to get good Chinese and sushi is the same - Miami Beach. There are a couple of okay places in Boca and a good one in Orlando called Rangetsu, but other than that they are far and few between.

I eat Chinese almost every week, I love it, always have. I also eat alot of greek and East Indian foods. If you are ever in Vancouver again I recommend No 9 in Richmond, its a 24 hour place that has everything.

[chris v]

All this is so much tilting at windmillls. The world always has, and always will change. Trying to halt the progression of time, or even wishing for it is the height of futility.

All we can, any of us, do is try to positively influence the world around us. Personally, I don't think that such activities should include infringing on the rights of others to live their lives the way they want to, but maybe I'm in the minority as far as that's concerned.

[SimpleLife]

Originally posted by chris v:
All this is so much tilting at windmillls. The world always has, and always will change. Trying to halt the progression of time, or even wishing for it is the height of futility.

All we can, any of us, do is try to positively influence the world around us. Personally, I don't think that such activities should include infringing on the rights of others to live their lives the way they want to(...)

...and as long as no one gets hurt.

[Athens]

Originally posted by chris v:
All this is so much tilting at windmillls. The world always has, and always will change. Trying to halt the progression of time, or even wishing for it is the height of futility.

All we can, any of us, do is try to positively influence the world around us. Personally, I don't think that such activities should include infringing on the rights of others to live their lives the way they want to, but maybe I'm in the minority as far as that's concerned.

Isnt that whats in conflict though, the way they want to live there lives, the way I want to live my lives. The difference is I didnt move myself into this, they moved themselfs into my life and are altering my way of life. What I don't understand is nothing is preventing them from living there way of life in there home country. To move here they should expect some things will be a little different, not change it to suit them but embrace our differences. Isnt that why they move, to have a new life some place new. Some rather just convert there new place.

[Spliffdaddy]

[chris v]

Originally posted by Athens:
Isnt that whats in conflict though, the way they want to live there lives, the way I want to live my lives. The difference is I didnt move myself into this, they moved themselfs into my life and are altering my way of life. What I don't understand is nothing is preventing them from living there way of life in there home country. To move here they should expect some things will be a little different, not change it to suit them but embrace our differences. Isnt that why they move, to have a new life some place new. Some rather just convert there new place.

Okay, bigot was harsh. I'm upgrading you to Crybaby.

[Athens]

Originally posted by chris v:
Okay, bigot was harsh. I'm upgrading you to Crybaby.

Thats rich coming from a lost again found again native.

[Buckaroo]

This is my number ONE complaint.







I am Sick of Illegal Aliens when they out number the Citizens.

Needless to say, I live in Los Angeles.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Buckaroo:
This is my number ONE complaint.







I am Sick of Illegal Aliens when they out number the Citizens.

Needless to say, I live in Los Angeles.

What I think is stupid, of course I think this is more a Canadian problem then a American problem is refugees that come here that lied and the government trys to deport them but they stay tangled in the court system for years never being deported costing that tax payer a heap of money, or worse the ones that are sent back sue the federal government over hurt feelings and win, that one really gets me.

Im glad we dont have as many Illegals up here, that would really just add to the other problems.

[chris v]

Originally posted by Athens:
Thats rich coming from a lost again found again native.

Have I suggested that all the white Albertans learn to speak Blackfeet? Things are the way they are. While I'd prefer one culture not get pushed aside in favor of another, sh*t happens. The history of the world is one long tale of one cutlure overtaking another. Sometimes it's by massacre, sometimes it's by Royal Fiat, and sometimes it's just by the slow progression of good old unencumbered time. Legislating against people living their lives as they see fit is certainly not the answer. Neither is whining about it on the internet.

[OldManMac]

[finboy]

Originally posted by Randman:
Funny. People in other countries say that about English-speaking expats.

And they would be RIGHT.

[Spliffdaddy]

There is no honor in coming to the US in order to take advantage of our country.

I see it too many times. They come here not because they love America and they wish to participate in its future. Nah. They come here in order to take advantage of the higher wages. If you ask them, almost none would say they want to be American citizens. Not as long as they're able to exploit our kind hearts - and dodge responsibility for the nation's future. They have no vested interest in America. They never give, they only take. They have a vested interest only in America's economy and in using our postal service as a makeshift supply-line to carry goods and dollars back to their home country. The place they plan to return to after they're through taking from America.

The only people that derserve to be here are the ones willing to do it legally. That includes mofos that were born here, as well.

carry on.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
There is no honor in coming to the US in order to take advantage of our country.

I see it too many times. They come here not because they love America and they wish to participate in its future. Nah. They come here in order to take advantage of the higher wages. If you ask them, almost none would say they want to be American citizens. Not as long as they're able to exploit our kind hearts - and dodge responsibility for the nation's future. They have no vested interest in America. They never give, they only take. They have a vested interest only in America's economy and in using our postal service as a makeshift supply-line to carry goods and dollars back to their home country. The place they plan to return to after they're through taking from America.

The only people that derserve to be here are the ones willing to do it legally. That includes mofos that were born here, as well.

carry on.

I don't agree with this at all. In my experience immigrants to the US are the true believers in the American dream. It's the slackers born here who seem to have the problem figuring out that you have to work to get ahead.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I don't agree with this at all. In my experience immigrants to the US are the true believers in the American dream. It's the slackers born here who seem to have the problem figuring out that you have to work to get ahead.

My experience differs greatly from yours, then.

Maybe it's where I live.

In North Carolina we have the largest Mexican population of *any* non-border state. Nearly all of them are here illegally, as evidenced by weighing known census data against real-world observation. Almost without exception, they are here to take advantage of our booming construction market...and send the proceeds back to their families in Mexico. Lines at the USPS are 75% Mexican while local demographics reflect their mix as just 10% of the population.

They have no compelling reason to become American citizens. Heck, that would only hinder and complicate their lives. They are driven by greed disguised as a virtue. Helping their families, while hurting ours.

"Ain't no Americans willing to pick fruit for $6 an hour.", they claim. That's why we need 'illegals' or aka the politically-correct 'migrant workers'.

I see things this way. If there were no illegals allowed to be employed in the US, then fruit-growers would have to pay a fair market wage for fruit-pickers. They might even have to pay $10 an hour. So what? Welcome to America, Sunkist. Nobody is willing to do blue collar work for $6 an hour - because it costs Americans more than that to live here legally.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure my government wouldn't bend over backwards to allow me to employ illegal aliens who have overstayed their visas AND sought employment - either of which is a violation. Just so I can cash in on some cheap labor.

Take a number and wait your turn. THEN you can come here and act a fool. Like the rest of us.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
My experience differs greatly from your, then.

Maybe it's where I live.

In North Carolina we have the largest Mexican population of *any* non-border state. Nearly all of them are here illegally, as evidenced by weighing known census data against real-world observation. Almost without exception, they here to take advantage of our booming construction market...and send the proceeds back to their families in Mexico.

They have no compelling reason to become American citizens. Heck, that would only hinder and complicate their lives. They are driven by greed disguised as a virtue. Helping their families, while hurting ours.

"Ain't no Americans willing to pick fruit for $6 an hour.", they claim. That's why we need 'illegals' or aka the politically-correct 'migrant workers'.

I see things this way. If there were no illegals allowed to be employed in the US, then fruit-growers would have to pay a fair market wage for fruit-pickers. They might even have to pay $10 an hour. So what? Welcome to America, Sunkist. Nobody is willing to do blue collar work for $6 an hour - because it costs Americans more than that to live here legally.

Anyways, I'm pretty sure my government wouldn't bend over backwards to allow me to employ illegal aliens who have overstayed their visas AND sought employment - either of which is a violation. Just so I can cash in on some cheap labor.

Take a number and wait your turn. THEN you can come here and act a fool. Like the rest of us.

Illegal immigrants =/= immigrants. Legal immigrants by and large come here intending to work and build futures for themselves and their families. You don't emigrate to the US in order to get a free handout and a short work week because we really don't offer either. What we do offer is a great deal of opportunity to those willing to work for it.

Really, the same thing applies even more so to illegal immigrants. By and large they don't get government benefits even if they would otherwise qualify, and they often work for below minimum wage. That means that the country as a whole is getting more productivity for less money. Of course, they don't pay taxes either, but a person at that economic level wouldn't pay income taxes anyway.

The reason why they do that is because there are more opportunities here than in their home countries. But, the odds are that this will in time become their home country, and the tendency is (whether we like it or not), those illegal workers eventually enter the legal economy. It's just a fact of life. But whether they are in the legal economy or the illegal one, they are still contributing to the economy as a whole. And also the tendency is that within a generation or two, those immigrants are as much Americans as any blue blooded Boston Brahmin with ancenstors on the Mayflower. In fact, in terms of attutudes about work and opportunity in the New World, today's immigrant is probably closer to the early immigrants to America than the Boston Brahmin would be. A lot of Americans seem to take things here for granted, but that isn't my experience among recent immigrants.

As for sending money home. That's always been a feature of American immigrant life. You can't stop people sending money to their families. The amount of money, though, is minuscule. If you are making $4 a hour, you can be pretty sure that most of it is going to living expenses right here in the US.

What is truly remarkable about America is that those immigrant families somehow seem to manage to climb up the social and economic ladder. We'd have a lot more problems with immigration if the illegal fruit pickers and yard workers of today had children who never advanced beyond fruit picking and yard work, but to an amazing degree, that isn't the case. Families afvance economically quite quickly, and the result is we don't have the same type of underclass that other countries with less of a tradition of immigration seem to suffer from. There are a lot of reasons for that, but among the biggest is surely that immigrants to America choose America precisely because they are ambitious -- if not for themselves, then at least for their kids. Therefore they seem to work hard, and take advantage of educational opportunities, often more enthusiastically than more established Americans. If you doubt that, go check out your local community college.

[Cody Dawg]

I see things this way. If there were no illegals allowed to be employed in the US, then fruit-growers would have to pay a fair market wage for fruit-pickers. They might even have to pay $10 an hour. So what? Welcome to America, Sunkist. Nobody is willing to do blue collar work for $6 an hour - because it costs Americans more than that to live here legally.

I agree with that, actually, and I'm a conservative. I think that we should pay LEGAL folks more money, pay more money for fruit or food, and deal with it. The problem is that people want something for nothing.

[SimeyTheLimey]

I love it. "Conservatives" arguing in favor of government regulation of the labor market place. That's what both the minimum wage and immigration labor controls are, you know.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Cody Dawg:
I agree with that, actually, and I'm a conservative. I think that we should pay LEGAL folks more money, pay more money for fruit or food, and deal with it. The problem is that people want something for nothing.

And if all those illegals were gone and we didn't have to pay for their social services, and if the government gives the money back to the people, that'd be sweet. I think some money returned to people that takes care of illegals would offset the cost of "expensive vegetables."
Of course, Mexico can give us 1 barrel of oil for every illegal alien every month. So maybe 15 million barrels from Mexico.

I favor option 1 better.

[chris v]

FWIW, I've known many immigrants from Mexico & points south. To a man, all of them, have been the hardest-working, most responsible people I've known. They for the most part have worked hard at learning English, and quite a few folks I've known have taken night classes trying to learn the language. Two of my best friends were here illegally at first, then went about the business of doing it the legal way, and are now both citizens, married, homeowners with beautiful children, good jobs, and 2.3 cars and pets. they're still two of the hardest-working people I know.

Of course, that's anecdotal. But lumping people together by race or nationality is what's commonly referred to as prejudice, or bigotry.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by chris v:
FWIW, I've known many immigrants from Mexico & points south. To a man, all of them, have been the hardest-working, most responsible people I've known. They for the most part have worked hard at learning English, and quite a few folks I've known have taken night classes trying to learn the language. Two of my best friends were here illegally at first, then went about the business of doing it the legal way, and are now both citizens, married, homeowners with beautiful children, good jobs, and 2.3 cars and pets. they're still two of the hardest-working people I know.

Of course, that's anecdotal. But lumping people together by race or nationality is what's commonly referred to as prejudice, or bigotry.

Nativist sentiment and paranoia is as old as America. A hundred years ago, we were being swamped by those terrible Irish and the Chinese. Before that, the Germans. And so on. Every group is convinced that it should be the last one to be allowed to live here, and that everyone after them will never integrate and become real hard working Americans. Yadda yadda. I have more confidence in the country than that.

[Spliffdaddy]

um, Simey, our illegals are making $40K yr in the construction trade. They share housing and transportation in order to be able to send more money out of the country.

They don't help our economy. They hurt it by dragging down the wages of already low-paying non-skilled jobs and by dragging down wages of some skilled jobs. They hurt it by funneling money out of the country, by not establishing any permanent residence, by being criminals for goshsakes.

They have no stake in Americas future. They won't be called to fight for the freedom they enjoyed. They won't even be required to waste productive time on jury duty.

There's no penalty for violating immigration laws. So having a legal immigration department is kinda pointless, dontcha think? Heck, just stroll on in, folks. We'll get ya hooked up with a drivers license and a library card while you overstay your visa by six years.

The only deterrent they face is a fine from their own government for leaving the country without permission and tax evasion. The Mexican government figured out a way to cash-in on the problem by simply waiting for Mexicans to return home - and fining them for leaving.

yay.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
um, Simey, our illegals are making $40K yr in the construction trade. They share housing and transportation in order to be able to send more money out of the country.

They don't help our economy. They hurt it by dragging down the wages of already low-paying non-skilled jobs and by dragging down wages of some skilled jobs. They hurt it by funneling money out of the country, by not establishing any permanent residence, by being criminals for goshsakes.

They have no stake in Americas future. They won't be called to fight for the freedom they enjoyed. They won't even be required to waste productive time on jury duty.

There's no penalty for violating immigration laws. So having a legal immigration department is kinda pointless, dontcha think? Heck, just stroll on in, folks. We'll get ya hooked up with a drivers license and a library card while you overstay your visa by six years.

The only deterrent they face is a fine from their own government for leaving the country without permission and tax evasion. The Mexican government figured out a way to cash-in on the problem by simply waiting for Mexicans to return home - and fining them for leaving.

yay.

There certainly are penalties for illegal immigration. The employer faces penalties for employing them. Tax evasion is also a crime regardless of immigration status, and you can go to jail for that. And of course immigrants can be deported.

What you are talking about is an enforcement problem. That's a problem at our end.

But I think in any case, you are blowing a small issue into a big one. I'm pretty sure most illegal immigrants aren't making anything close to 40k.

[itai195]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I don't agree with this at all. In my experience immigrants to the US are the true believers in the American dream. It's the slackers born here who seem to have the problem figuring out that you have to work to get ahead.

You're really hitting the nail on the head with every post in this thread (well this page, at least, since it's all I read).

I'd add that I have no problem with immigrants coming to this country and bringing much of their culture here. It would be a pretty boring place to live if we didn't constantly get to experience the contributions of people who came from around the world. Frankly it's kind of hypocritical to think otherwise... Unless one is a full-blooded indigenous American, one had ancestors who also immigrated here. They likely came for the same reasons many illegal aliens come here. They contributed to the culture. I can assure you that the pilgrims didn't celebrate St. Patrick's Day.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
There certainly are penalties for illegal immigration. The employer faces penalties for employing them. Tax evasion is also a crime regardless of immigration status, and you can go to jail for that. And of course immigrants can be deported.

What you are talking about is an enforcement problem. That's a problem at our end.

But I think in any case, you are blowing a small issue into a big one. I'm pretty sure most illegal immigrants aren't making anything close to 40k.

Shouldn't people who come in here illegally be deported. After all, the way the entered the country was illegal, right?

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
Shouldn't people who come in here illegally be deported. After all, the way the entered the country was illegal, right?

Of course they should, and employers who break the law by employing them under the table should be fined as well. But that isn't a reason to assume that all immigrants are illegal, or to make sweeping and inaccurate statements about immigrants in general.

The reason illegal immigration isn't policed more thoroughly is because the cost of doing so vastly exceeds the benefits. The fact is, immigration is a net benefit to the US. That includes a degree of illegal immigration (for the reasons I set out above).

[Athens]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
There is no honor in coming to the US in order to take advantage of our country.

I see it too many times. They come here not because they love America and they wish to participate in its future. Nah. They come here in order to take advantage of the higher wages. If you ask them, almost none would say they want to be American citizens. Not as long as they're able to exploit our kind hearts - and dodge responsibility for the nation's future. They have no vested interest in America. They never give, they only take. They have a vested interest only in America's economy and in using our postal service as a makeshift supply-line to carry goods and dollars back to their home country. The place they plan to return to after they're through taking from America.

The only people that derserve to be here are the ones willing to do it legally. That includes mofos that were born here, as well.

carry on.

You don't have to be a illegal to do that. You can do that legally. Problem I see in the US for illegals are the ones that work under the table, never pay taxes yet use services like health care. If there isn't enough workers paying taxes old americans that need pensions and stuff (assuming thats what its called there) wont have enough young workers contributing and the system wont have enough money, then hard working Americans that spent there life contributing get screwed over. For example here in Canada 50 years ago there was around 14 young workers contributing to UI, CPP and stuff for ever retired person drawing from it. Now its like 4 to 1. I imagine the numbers are similar in the US because we both had a massive baby boom generation. But then on top of that you have so many illegals that don't pay taxes or into these funds plus a crazy presedent wasting hundreds of billions I imagine its even alot worse.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Athens:
You don't have to be a illegal to do that. You can do that legally. Problem I see in the US for illegals are the ones that work under the table, never pay taxes yet use services like health care. If there isn't enough workers paying taxes old americans that need pensions and stuff (assuming thats what its called there) wont have enough young workers contributing and the system wont have enough money, then hard working Americans that spent there life contributing get screwed over. For example here in Canada 50 years ago there was around 14 young workers contributing to UI, CPP and stuff for ever retired person drawing from it. Now its like 4 to 1. I imagine the numbers are similar in the US because we both had a massive baby boom generation. But then on top of that you have so many illegals that don't pay taxes or into these funds plus a crazy presedent wasting hundreds of billions I imagine its even alot worse.

This is kind of a moot argument. Illegal immigrants don't pay into Social Security. But neither do they receive Social Security benefits.

[ambush]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This is kind of a moot argument. Illegal immigrants don't pay into Social Security. But neither do they receive Social Security benefits.

<hit&run>they still use the roads, drink water</hit&run>

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by ambush:
<hit&run>they still use the roads, drink water</hit&run>

Not good examples either. If they live here, they certainly pay rent to somebody. If so, they pay water rates and property taxes in their rent the same as any citizen or legal alien. They also buy goods in the stores and that means in most states they pay state sales taxes, which go toward things like roads, again, just like everyone else.

So even if they don't pay state and federal income taxes or payroll taxes, they do pay at least some taxes. Given the kinds of incomes illegals make, they probably by and large pay as much in taxes as they would if they were legal. Maybe more because they aren't eligible for earned income credit, which is a kind of reverse tax that allows the poor to get back more than they pay in -- but only if they are in the income tax system.

[Athens]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
This is kind of a moot argument. Illegal immigrants don't pay into Social Security. But neither do they receive Social Security benefits.

But they are taking a job away from some one who would be paying into it. If all the jobs become under the table with nothing going into Social Security or CPP, WC, and Medical then the system as a whole suffers because there isnt enough contributors for those that spent there lives working hard to get that when they retire. Takes 20 contributors for every reciever for the system to work. And with all the baby boomers retired or coming close to it the systems are already stretched

[Spliffdaddy]

Simey, your argument is disintegrating like a tire on a French-made airliner.

They don't pay rent to somebody because they live 12 deep in a one bedroom apartment - then commute to their illegal employment 12 deep in a mid-80's Chevy conversion van. Courtesy of a drivers license gained via LYING.

They absolutely DO make $40k/yr in a lot of circumstances - and pay no taxes - which DOES hurt the folks that are here legally.

Get past your mistaken assumption that illegals don't make any money. You're flatly wrong.

I don't doubt that they *will* collect Social Security. Are you gonna let 'em starve in their old age? Gonna ship 'em back to their home country AFTER they're old?

Give me a break, Simey. I've never seen you lose an argument so soundly as you are this one.

[Randman]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
They don't pay rent to somebody because they live 12 deep in a one bedroom apartment - then commute to their illegal employment 12 deep in a mid-80's Chevy conversion van. Courtesy of a drivers license gained via LYING.

Sure that all of them do that?

[Athens]

Originally posted by Randman:
Sure that all of them do that?

Ya think about it, they prob 12 deep a single hooker too, see every sector gets hurt lol

[OreoCookie]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I agree about the drivers license testing. It wouldn't be an issue except for the fact that pretty much 100% of the road signs are written in English. You NEED to be able to read English in order to operate a motor vehicle safely.

...

When I was doing my licence (somewhere in PA), the woman doing the test before me was Chinese and she brought someone to translate. This was perfectly ok, because it was stated explicitly in the rules that if someone cannot speak English (well enough), they were allowed to bring their own translator.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Randman:
Sure that all of them do that?

Actually, yes they do.

Stereotypes aren't stereotypes if they're true.

It's the same as saying all Mexicans breathe air.

[Randman]

Making over-generalised and downright silly comments only weakens your argument. I, for one, agreed with most of what you said until you started on the Chevy van analogies.
And I guess no Americans live in trailers either. And Charlotte doesn't have any drug trade.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Randman:
Making over-generalised and downright silly comments only weakens your argument. I, for one, agreed with most of what you said until you started on the Chevy van analogies.
And I guess no Americans live in trailers either. And Charlotte doesn't have any drug trade.

I stand corrected.

There are only as many Mexican illegals sharing apartments and transportation as there are black teens listening to rap music.

[Randman]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I stand corrected.

There are only as many Mexican illegals sharing apartments and transportation as their are black teens listening to rap music.

And all black teens listen to rap music, right?

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Randman:
And all black teens listen to rap music, right?

I didn't say that.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I didn't say that.

Just change ALL to Most then the problem is solved

[Spliffdaddy]

If I said most Mexicans are nice people - that would be a stereotype. Right?

Or is it only a stereotype when it's something negative?

Saying that most Mexican illegals in this area share apartments and transportation is absolutely true. Is it a bad thing to share apartments?

I'll leave that up to you to decide.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
If I said most Mexicans are nice people - that would be a stereotype. Right?

Or is it only a stereotype when it's something negative?

Saying that most Mexican illegals in this area share apartments and transportation is absolutely true. Is it a bad thing to share apartments?

I'll leave that up to you to decide.

Just be more politically correct, if most people in your area are Mexicans just say MOST PEOPLE IN THIS AREA SHARE APARTMENTS

[Spliffdaddy]

I'm so far from politically correct that it takes a bus, three layovers, and four international flights to get there.



(PS, I can't believe how easy it was for me to kick Simey's ass on this topic)

*Spliffdaddy pats himself on the back*

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Athens:
But they are taking a job away from some one who would be paying into it. If all the jobs become under the table with nothing going into Social Security or CPP, WC, and Medical then the system as a whole suffers because there isnt enough contributors for those that spent there lives working hard to get that when they retire. Takes 20 contributors for every reciever for the system to work. And with all the baby boomers retired or coming close to it the systems are already stretched

They aren't taking jobs away from people who would pay into it. The reason employers are willing to take the legal risk of hiring illegal workers is because they can't hire a legal worker at that price point. If there were legal alternative employees for the same cost, it wouldn't make rational sense to hire illegal workers and run the risk of being prosecuted.

As for these stereotypes Spliffy has about 12 to an apartment, and so on, he's talking about hardships that immigrants to this country have been willing to go through for as long as there has been immigration in this country. (And note, the distinction between legal and illegal immigration is only a little over a century old, before then, the government didn't regulate the issue). They are willing to suffer those hardships because they consider this land a land of opportunity. This is exactly what I was talking about when I said that immigrants embody the very spirit that built this country. It wasn't built by people panicing about Social Security benefits. It was built by people willing to work long hours to build for themselves and their families a better life than the one they left behind.

I'm surprised to find Spliffdaddy arguing with the unions and other protectionists in favor of government regulation of employment contracts. More surprised still that he is using the same kind of popularist scare tactics that I associate more with the Democrats. Next he's going to start railing about how "big business" is sending "well paying jobs offshore." Maybe he should support unionized construction sites? That would be one way to ensure that pay and conditions meets his minimum standards. They probably would police the industry more zealously than the government does. Assuming, of course, that his anecdote is common. Personally, I see more illegal immigrants in unskilled jobs like mowing lawns.

The fact is unemployment is at about 5.4% and falling. Less in states like the ones Spliffy lives in. Whether you like the fact or not, economically, illegal immigration fills an employment need at the bottom of the scale. Americans aren't being displaced by illegal immigrants. Legal workers wouldn't work those terms and conditions. It's because legal workers decline those terms and conditions (and government regulations forbid them) that employers are willing to turn to the black market. That's always what happens when government distorts the market with intrusive regulations.

And again, all immigrants are not illegal.