[saman]

Am I right in my assumption that there is no way of removing apple's (highly) ineffective dock from the dock (apart from making it smaller and hiding it?)?

I haven't come across anything on the net but I might be missing something obvious..

[besson3c]

Originally posted by saman:
Am I right in my assumption that there is no way of removing apple's (highly) ineffective dock from the dock (apart from making it smaller and hiding it?)?

I haven't come across anything on the net but I might be missing something obvious..

Even if you could, it might not be a good idea. Many apps interact with the dock, the dock provides important feedback.

Why do you want to get rid of the dock?

[djohnson]

How do you plan on removing the dock from the dock? You could always delete the Dock program.......(i dont suggest this btw)

[spiky_dog]

just put it on the side of your screen, remove all but the most highly used apps from it, and use launchbar:

http://www.obdev.at/products/launchbar/index.html

[ManOfSteal]

Originally posted by djohnson:
How do you plan on removing the dock from the dock?

I'm glad you said it, because I was definitely thinking it...

[Superchicken]

Would you prefer a task bar? Perhaps with START written on it?

[Xeo]

If you're new to the Dock, give it a chance.

[porieux]

cmd-opt-d will hide it then u can ignore it

[saman]

superchicken: no, I do NOT prefer a taskbar with START written on it, and IMHO these kind of statements are not very productive, nor helpful. Are you trying to give yourself an ego-boost or what?

In fact, I love almost everything about the Panther OS - I even think that the dock is lovely and its magnification is a great solution to display a lot of different buttons, but it really is more eye-candy to me and does not offer a good solution to a power-user, who needs to run many different applications, needs to categorise them, needs a place to put folders and documents and be able to quickly retrieve them, etc.

In fact, I agree whole-heartedly with each of the nine points that Bruce Tognazzini raises about the dock:

http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html

I have given drag thing a try and I LOVE it! much more effective than the dock bar...

[storer]

you sound like a very friendly, patient and reasonable person, saman.

What you really need to understand, which I'm sure you will, seeing as though you are so friendly, patient and reasonable, is that MacNN is FULL of egotistical pricks, like myself and SuperChicken, whom you have so friendlily, patiently and reasonably pointed out.

You'll fit in well.
You'll learn to take a joke later. Most people here just like a joke.

what I don't understand, is why you don't just hide the dock. it can't get in your way then wen you are trying to work. and if you are a "power-user," how come you don't have a big enough monitor and high enough resolution to keep it out of the way?

[drive-thru]

saman: if you want to be able to access and store documents you're working on, you can make a folder in Documents called 'Current' or something (make as many as you want) and then put them in the right-hand part of the dock. Right-click or click&hold these folders and they will spring up (like the Start menu) so you can access them. You can also drag things to these folders, although they don't do the spring-loaded thing .

If you want to categorise your apps then you can sort them by type in the dock, I have mine listed from left to right, IM clients, Music, Email, Web apps, Print apps, Office, Video editing, Utilities. If you use your computer enough to classify yourself as a power-user you know where your apps are. There was a way of making little spacers for the dock, can't remember if it's a separate app or just a trick with icons.

Alternatively, you can make a folder (inside the Applications folder) called Design (or whatever way you classify the apps you use) and drag aliases of the apps you want to that folder. Make different folders for different types of apps, give them different icons (or make your own) and put them in the right-hand part of the dock - giving you a pop-up menu of classified apps.

There are different ways to use the dock depending on how you work. Personally I have all the apps I regularly use in the dock and my home & apps folders on the right.You can hide the dock if you have a small screen or don't like it always being on screen. If I didn't want to use the dock I would hide it at the bottom so I never accidentally moused over it, but you can put it on the left or right side.

[Toyin]

The problem with the dock (IMHO) is that if you're using it for a lot of things it requires too much customization.

For example if you want to use it for a large number of folders, you really need to customize the appearance of the folders to be able to open the right one each time.

As a launcher it works great for a limited number of applications but what happens when the application you need isn't in the dock? Sure you can put your Applications folder in the dock and use that as a a launcher, but that's not very fast when you have over 150 applications.

As an application switcher the dock is pretty sweet and it gives great feedback as to what's running. but now with apple-tab bezel, I find the dock redundant. So what's one to do?

My solution was initially Launchbar and now Quicksilver. If you haven't tried these applications you really should. Any document, application, or folder is several keystrokes away. For example to launch Safari, I press command + space bar (to activate the application), then start typing 's','a','f' then 'enter'. Both programs narrow your choices the more you type and also learn from your previous behaviors. So now I only need to activate Quicksilver, type 's' then 'enter' to launch safari, 'i','t', for iTunes, 'm' for mail, 'f', 'i', for Firefox, 'd','o', 'c' for Documents folder...etc. If you can type at all, this is the fastest way to get around your hard drive. Give it a try. Quicksilver is freeware. Visually stunning with a highly customizable interface, but a little slower than Launchbar which is shareware. IMHO a bit smarter than Quicksilver and faster.

[MindFad]

It would be cool if Apple could add an alternative way to minimize windows, without them going to the Dock. That way, there wouldn't be much use for the Dock. Maybe bring back the titlebar collapse? It might be good for folks like you, anyway. I would personally still use the dock; I find it very useful.

[drainyoo]

I personally think you are nuts if you think the dock is useless. Its seamless integration makes life so much easier. Sometimes it seems like people need to find reasons to complain. Some people are just never happen. But in the end, it is your opinion. More power to ya bro. OSX without a dock wouldnt be OSX.

[MacGorilla]

I remember for a while, I really disliked the Dock and wished there was an option to turn it off but I got used to it. In the few times I use Mac OS 9 these days I'll find myself mousing to the bottom of the screen to see what apps I have open.

[saman]

To see what apps are open, for me nothing can beat cmd+tab! :-) oh, and expos� is great for that as well!

I certainly gave the dock a chance - I bought my lovely PB over a month ago and has been using it since then every day for many hours... I really like how the dock looks like and I think it's great for showing off your OS, but when it gets to serious work, it just can't keep up with dedicated program like launchbar or Dragthing....

well, I have now hidden the dock and put it at the bottom where I can ignore it..


thanks - I appreciate everyone's comments on this thread!

[Landos Mustache]

Personally I think the Dock is the best thing about the interface of OSX. I love it and it works great.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by saman:
superchicken: no, I do NOT prefer a taskbar with START written on it, and IMHO these kind of statements are not very productive, nor helpful. Are you trying to give yourself an ego-boost or what?

In fact, I love almost everything about the Panther OS - I even think that the dock is lovely and its magnification is a great solution to display a lot of different buttons, but it really is more eye-candy to me and does not offer a good solution to a power-user, who needs to run many different applications, needs to categorise them, needs a place to put folders and documents and be able to quickly retrieve them, etc.

In fact, I agree whole-heartedly with each of the nine points that Bruce Tognazzini raises about the dock:

http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html

I have given drag thing a try and I LOVE it! much more effective than the dock bar...

Bite me.
For a power user, you write a lousy power user post. If you want to start accusing other people of ego boosting try and stay humble yourself. I've known few power users who felt a need to call OS X Panther OS, or Windows XP, XP OS. If you're gona go trying to state that the dock is not good enough for you because you're much more of a power user than the rest of us, at least have a clue what you're talking about.
That said, I'm a mildly power user. I do a lot of graphics work, focusing mainly on web dev. I currently have 23 apps in my dock on a 12 inch screen running at 1024/768. Plus my Apps folder and trash can.
If you want a place to store documents and what not, try your home folder. Or even put the home folder in your dock and right/ctrl click it for a menu so you can access everything in your HD.

Either learn to take a joke or shut up. Humility on a forum at least until people have a clue who you are, and whether you have a clue what you're talking about is a really good thing.

Just to give you a hand, in the future when discussing anything technical, never question Moki, or Eug (and a few others) you will look like an ass monkey.

[Earth Mk. II]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Bite me.

Chill. The guy doesn't like the dock. so what?

Personally, I use it, but only so currently running applications can show various status info (but not bouncing - some people like it.... I don't). I also have it pinned to the right of the screen and on the bottom (trash can is always in the lower right hand corner of the screen).

You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept that it's there and probably won't be going away anytime soon. Using an application like DragThing, Launchbar, or QuickSilver is a good start though.

[Superchicken]

Originally posted by Earth Mk. II:
Chill. The guy doesn't like the dock. so what?

Personally, I use it, but only so currently running applications can show various status info (but not bouncing - some people like it.... I don't). I also have it pinned to the right of the screen and on the bottom (trash can is always in the lower right hand corner of the screen).

You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept that it's there and probably won't be going away anytime soon. Using an application like DragThing, Launchbar, or QuickSilver is a good start though.

People projecting irritate me.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
People projecting irritate me.

Your response was completely uncalled for. Don't get so worked up.

[Turnpike]

Yeah, for me the dock just shows what is open. I use quicksilver for all my application launching needs, and generally the recent documents menu has the documents I want quick access to... although things that are in progress I usually leave on the desktop (unless it is something larger, like a web site... in which case the folder for the site is on the desktop)

[storer]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
People projecting irritate me.

Did you read mine then? It was partly sarcastic, so no offence saman.

[aaanorton]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Bite me.

Originally posted by Superchicken:
People projecting irritate me.

I don't think Jesus would like this kind of talk, Superchicken. You should know better.

[storer]

Jesus was a superchicken.

[saman]

hey superchicken, with the written medium it's often difficult to tell whether somebody is just pulling a joke or trying to be a smartass. anyway, let's keep this board nice and friendly!

thanks for your suggestions on how to improve my Panther Operating Device 10 (dang, this just disqualified me of being a power user... I'll try to learn the lingo better...)

[David Lee]

"My solution was initially Launchbar and now Quicksilver. If you haven't tried these applications you really should. Any document, application, or folder is several keystrokes away. For example to launch Safari, I press command + space bar"" to quote someone's post above...
This suggestion probably works, I haven't tried any of these applications, but there is a problem here, or rather, depending on the keyboard layout, a conflict. I use a Japanese/English system, living as I do in Japan. The Japanese keyboard uses the command + spacebar keys to switch between English and Japanese input. Other languages may use this key combination also, I really don't know, but I wonder how these application handle that conflict.

[Toyin]

Originally posted by David Lee:
"My solution was initially Launchbar and now Quicksilver. If you haven't tried these applications you really should. Any document, application, or folder is several keystrokes away. For example to launch Safari, I press command + space bar"" to quote someone's post above...
This suggestion probably works, I haven't tried any of these applications, but there is a problem here, or rather, depending on the keyboard layout, a conflict. I use a Japanese/English system, living as I do in Japan. The Japanese keyboard uses the command + spacebar keys to switch between English and Japanese input. Other languages may use this key combination also, I really don't know, but I wonder how these application handle that conflict.

Quicksilver let's you customize the action command. I believe the default is option + spacebar, I've just grown so used to cmd + space bar that I changed it.

[ApeInTheShell]

Well since this is the fourth release of Mac OS X I would say the dock is going to be here for awhile. If you have 150+ applications I think you want to go the Mac OS 9 route and place folders on the desktop. This will add more clutter but you won't need to use the Dock.

Another option is the terminal which some say is faster at performing tasks than the GUI.

I am curious that with the spotlight feature whether we will need the Finder and if this will omit the dock eventually. Just curious.

Personally, I think the dock brings the user interface together more than the Apple Menu did.

[theolein]

Originally posted by saman:
To see what apps are open, for me nothing can beat cmd+tab! :-) oh, and expos� is great for that as well!

I certainly gave the dock a chance - I bought my lovely PB over a month ago and has been using it since then every day for many hours... I really like how the dock looks like and I think it's great for showing off your OS, but when it gets to serious work, it just can't keep up with dedicated program like launchbar or Dragthing....

well, I have now hidden the dock and put it at the bottom where I can ignore it..


thanks - I appreciate everyone's comments on this thread!

This is probably a stupid question, but have you tried DragThing? It offers what you seem to need as far as I can see (easy and efficient storage of documents and applications).

[stephenh]

if you delete or just rename the dock it won't start.

[jocker]

Originally posted by stephenh:
if you delete or just rename the dock it won't start.

That's not very good advice!! Because then Expose won't work, and how would you minimise windows (ok I suppose the windowshade haxie would do it).

[Graymalkin]

Originally posted by Toyin:
Sure you can put your Applications folder in the dock and use that as a a launcher, but that's not very fast when you have over 150 applications.

Once upon a time we were all novice MacOS users. For a number of years now MacOS has supported what are known as Aliases. Aliases are files that point to other files. What is nice about aliases is they will find files they point to even if the file has moved from its original location, they're also quite small and Finder can quickly display them and their icons even when there's a large number of them in a folder.

Aliases can be used to make a very nice and organized menu in the Dock that displays quickly.

• Open up the folder ~/Library/Favorites and delete the alias to ~/Documents.
• Open up /Applications and create some aliases to your programs in the Favorites folder. To do this quickly hold down Command + Option while dragging the application icons to the Favorites folder, doing so will automatically make the dragged items into aliases.
• Drag your Favorites folder to the Dock.

You can arrange your aliases by their type or by some pattern that you use them in. I personally keep all applications of a certain class (Media, Internet, Productivity) grouped together. You can also drag web links or network locations to this folder to have them at the ready. In order to get a nice clean menu from this item on the Dock you can either click and hold the cursor on it or control + click (right click) it.

If you want to become an even more savvy Mac user you can use an AppleScript to launch groups of applications to use often. Sa for example you often run Mail, iCal, and Address Book when you're doing some correspondence with friends, coworkers, or clients.

Code:
tell application "Address Book" to activate
tell application "iCal" to activate
tell application "Mail" to activate

It is a simple enough script but when run will launch those applications in order if they're not already open. If you save the script as a "Run Only" application it will launch those apps and quite itself when it is all finished. If you want to get fancier you can have the script select a mailbox or group of contacts to select when the applications open.

[Krusty]

I've actually come to like the dock quite bit after figuring out how to customize it to my taste. Its great for:
1) droplet applications -- which are always accessible when in the dock.(drop zip, dropjpeg, printer, etc.)
2) Custom folder views -- as described above, you can quickly make a hierarchical folder structures using aliases and then drag its containing folder into the dock. Alternately, I just make subfolder groupings in my Applications folder and drag it to the dock .. enough so that I'm not required to scroll when its subfolders pop up.
3) Its very easy to change what icon is displayed for a folder. For example, my folder of network location shortcuts looks like a network globe rather than a folder (and of course the Applications folder has the big "A" on it). In fact, I have no generic looking folders in my dock ... they're all unique and very easily identified without "scrubbing".
4) Grouping similar types of apps in the dock helps

Honestly, it took a while to get my head around all of the different ways I could make the dock work better. But now that I know these tricks, the dock has become completely sufficient for handling large numbers of apps and browsing folders. If I need to find anything that isn't readily accessible in a dock pop-up folder, I just browse the volume like back in OS 9 days. To each his own, I suppose ... but the dock works just fine for me.

[Toyin]

Originally posted by Graymalkin:
Once upon a time we were all novice MacOS users. For a number of years now MacOS has supported what are known as Aliases. Aliases are files that point to other files. What is nice about aliases is they will find files they point to even if the file has moved from its original location, they're also quite small and Finder can quickly display them and their icons even when there's a large number of them in a folder.

Aliases can be used to make a very nice and organized menu in the Dock that displays quickly.

• Open up the folder ~/Library/Favorites and delete the alias to ~/Documents.
• Open up /Applications and create some aliases to your programs in the Favorites folder. To do this quickly hold down Command + Option while dragging the application icons to the Favorites folder, doing so will automatically make the dragged items into aliases.
• Drag your Favorites folder to the Dock.

You can arrange your aliases by their type or by some pattern that you use them in. I personally keep all applications of a certain class (Media, Internet, Productivity) grouped together. You can also drag web links or network locations to this folder to have them at the ready. In order to get a nice clean menu from this item on the Dock you can either click and hold the cursor on it or control + click (right click) it.

If you want to become an even more savvy Mac user you can use an AppleScript to launch groups of applications to use often. Sa for example you often run Mail, iCal, and Address Book when you're doing some correspondence with friends, coworkers, or clients.

Code:
tell application "Address Book" to activate
tell application "iCal" to activate
tell application "Mail" to activate

It is a simple enough script but when run will launch those applications in order if they're not already open. If you save the script as a "Run Only" application it will launch those apps and quite itself when it is all finished. If you want to get fancier you can have the script select a mailbox or group of contacts to select when the applications open.

Who do you think you're talking to? I've been using Apple's since the Apple ][ plus, AND I've been using OSX as my primary OS since the public beta. Yes you can use aliases and organize them into pretty little folders in your dock. In fact this was my method of launching applications from the Public Beta until 10.2. I've used this method and from experience I can tell you it still takes time to organize the aliases and it still takes a fraction of second for that pop up menu to display. Once the menu is displayed it still takes a few seconds to navigate to the application you want.

As for applescript, yes I use them as well. I have a fair number of documents that I keep on an encrypted disk image. I use applescript to mount the drive and then launch the application and document after I've entered in the password. Guess what? It's still faster for me to type a few keys in Quicksilver then it is for me right click a folder in the dock and then select the appropriate script.

Don't mock people you don't know and don't make light of solutions other people use. I've used the dock, I've used the methods you describe, and I can tell you if you have even rudimentary skills on a keyboard, Quicksilver (or Launchbar) is so much faster. Most people who use these apps think so, and Apple definitely thinks so, hence their direction with Spotlight.

[fisherKing]

i haven't seen my dock in months...
i use dockblock; puts an icon in the menubar with a dropdown of open apps.

allows me to use the fullscreen on my 12" pb (with apps like photoshop, logic, reason).

it's not perfect...occasionally i have to quit it in activity monitor; and you have to enable the dock to change your desktop picture, for example.

but i would not work without it.

try it out.

the dock is a drag, it takes up deskspace (and when you hide it, it's a nuisance when it pops up everytime you work near that part of the screen).

but...to each his (or her) own!

[Toyin]

I also forgot to mention Tiger launch which reads your Applications folder and creates a drop down menu from the menubar. This show only the applications, no folders and you can select which applications you want displayed. This is easier to maintain then aliases. I found it to be as fast as the aliases method, but slower than Quicksilver and Launchbar.

[Boondoggle]

I love my Dock almost as much as my ....

well, nevermind.

[Boondoggle]

The previous post was ment to be humorous

[Spliff]

Originally posted by Superchicken:
People projecting irritate me.

Chicken,

Give it a rest. You started it by mouthing off to Saman. Your initial comment was out of line. Save it for the Lounge.

[Graymalkin]

Originally posted by Toyin:
Who do you think you're talking to?

Obviously someone who needs some Prozac. You made an inane comment about sticking the /Applications folder directly on the Dock, that is hardly indicitive of someone who knows what they're doing. If you want to thump your chest over what a bad-ass power user you are do so somewhere else as I'm not interested.

I've used this method and from experience I can tell you it still takes time to organize the aliases and it still takes a fraction of second for that pop up menu to display. Once the menu is displayed it still takes a few seconds to navigate to the application you want.

On noes a few seconds! Come on, Quicksilver is nice but it is possible to navigate visually using the Dock. If you had bothered paying attention instead of becoming indignant you would have realized that is what I was saying. It takes a fraction of a second for Quicksilver to pop up just like it does a directory listing on a folder in the Dock. Neither way is necessarily superior than the other, if you're mostly using a mouse or tablet and you have to switch to using your keyboard to open something Quicksilver is not going to be the quickest of all methods to navigate.

Guess what? It's still faster for me to type a few keys in Quicksilver then it is for me right click a folder in the dock and then select the appropriate script.

Again, Quicksilver/LaunchBar are great if your hands are on the keyboard and at the ready to type in a command. If you're drawing on a tablet or doing something else it is probably quicker to just use the mouse to navigate. Depending on the situation and the user the different methods of navigating have their advantages.

[Toyin]

Originally posted by Graymalkin:
Obviously someone who needs some Prozac. You made an inane comment about sticking the /Applications folder directly on the Dock, that is hardly indicitive of someone who knows what they're doing. If you want to thump your chest over what a bad-ass power user you are do so somewhere else as I'm not interested.

Originally posted by Graymalkin:

On noes a few seconds! Come on, Quicksilver is nice but it is possible to navigate visually using the Dock. If you had bothered paying attention instead of becoming indignant you would have realized that is what I was saying. It takes a fraction of a second for Quicksilver to pop up just like it does a directory listing on a folder in the Dock. Neither way is necessarily superior than the other, if you're mostly using a mouse or tablet and you have to switch to using your keyboard to open something Quicksilver is not going to be the quickest of all methods to navigate.

I never got indignant. The insults, saracasm, and rude behavior was started and continued by you. I use a tablet and even then, I find it faster to use the typing method. Several reasons why:

1) You know exactly where the keys on the keyboard are so switching to the keyboard takes no time to hit cmd (or option) + Space bar and start typing (unless the keyboard isn't accessible)
2) If you know what you're looking for, you don't have to go through a menu to select an item. This is what I found to be the most time consuming portion. Scrolling or mousing through a lot of items takes time even if you know exactly where the application is on the menu. And let's be honest if you only have a few items in your pop up menu you may as well place the items on your desktop and use expose to get to them, or just put them in the dock.
3) You can launch a specific document, skipping the step of launching an application then opening the document, or locating the document then double clicking it. This amounts to a lot more than a few seconds here or there. Also In Launchbar, searches keep up with my typing, while there is a slight lag in Quicksilver.

The topic title is, "so we'll live with the dock". I'm simply trying to give the original user alternatives to the dock and I managed to do it without insulting anyone or getting personal.

This is my last response to you Graymalkin. Have a good day.

[storer]

Originally posted by fisherKing:
i haven't seen my dock in months...
i use dockblock; puts an icon in the menubar with a dropdown of open apps.
but...to each his (or her) own!

so that dockblock is like the os 9 thing.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Graymalkin:
You made an inane comment about sticking the /Applications folder directly on the Dock, that is hardly indicitive of someone who knows what they're doing.

??

Works wonderfully for me.

[MacMcMacintosh]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
??

Works wonderfully for me.

Me too

[drive-thru]

Originally posted by moonmonkey:
??

Works wonderfully for me.

Same here.
Although I have 46 apps in my dock, so anything I have to go to the applications folder for isn't used regularly.