[Leonard]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:

Power Mac single single-core G5 970FX 2.0 GHz - $1499 <-- Could be clocked higher, or get the 970GX
Power Mac single dual-core G5 970MP 2.2 GHz - $1999
Power Mac single dual-core G5 970MP 2.5 GHz - $2499
Power Mac single dual-core G5 970MP 3.0 GHz - $2999 <-- Optimistic
Power Mac double double G5 970MP 2.5 GHz - $3499 <-- Optimistic, and may not exist if the 3.0 is available.
Power Mac double double G5 970MP 3.0 GHz - $3999 <-- Optimistic

Too many configurations. Apple likes to keep it simple and stick with 3-4 configs. Dual core Power Macs are not going to cost that much more. In fact the current Power Macs are over-priced.

Power Mac single dual-core G5 970MP 2.2 GHz - $1599
Power Mac dual dual-core G5 970MP 2.2 GHz - $2099
Power Mac dual dual-core G5 970MP 2.6 GHz - $2599
Power Mac dual dual-core G5 970MP 3.0 GHz - $3099

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Leonard:
Too many configurations. Apple likes to keep it simple and stick with 3-4 configs.

PowerBook models

Dual core Power Macs are not going to cost that much more. In fact the current Power Macs are over-priced.

Power Mac single dual-core G5 970MP 2.2 GHz - $1599
Power Mac dual dual-core G5 970MP 2.2 GHz - $2099
Power Mac dual dual-core G5 970MP 2.6 GHz - $2599
Power Mac dual dual-core G5 970MP 3.0 GHz - $3099

Heh. And I thought I was optimistic. 3 quad models, for only $100 more than the current duals, despite getting a huge clock speed jump? Not a chance in h3ll.

I agree that my list is a bit big though. I don't expect to see the 2.5 GHz double double. Assuming the top speed of the 970MP is 3 GHz (and that's an optimistic assumption), then I really only expect one double double, at 3 GHz.

It'd be nice to see a price drop of $100 for the duals though. eg. Single dual core 970MP 2.5 GHz for $2399.

[Simon]

No dual duals. Three configs, not one more.

970FX (or GX), 2.0 GHz, $1599
970MP, 2.2GHz, $2399
970MP, 2.6GHz, $2899

And everybody on this board will be leaving the platform.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
No dual duals. Three configs, not one more.

970FX (or GX), 2.0 GHz, $1599
970MP, 2.2GHz, $2399
970MP, 2.6GHz, $2899

And everybody on this board will be leaving the platform.

Wow. Uber pessimist. No quads, and a miniscule 100 MHz boost at the top end.

BTW, the refurb store has every current iMac G5 model, every current Power Mac G5 model, and every current iBook model for sale. Hmmm...

[The Ancient One]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Why? Just wondering, cuz while I'd want to get PCIe too, but in real practical terms it's not a huge issue at this point performance-wise at this point even for Core Image/Core Video (although it is a bit of an issue).

Mind you, it could be a more significant issue in 2 years time, when cards are faster, and fast 3rd party AGP video cards for Mac are harder to find.

Precisely. I expect to get 4-5 years out of a new machine and then another 4-5 on my wife's desk for word processing, email and web surfing. I like to keep my upgrade options open - I added a USB 2.0 card to my dual 800 not too long ago.

[U n i o n 0015]

All I know is that it's about time Apple updated the PowerMacs. I was keen on getting a dual 2.0, but since I can wait, I will. I'm just hoping that the revisions that (hopefully) come in time for WWDC are good ones and not place holders like the newest PowerBook revisions were.

Anyone else notice that Apple dropped the 6600GT from the Power Mac BTO?

[MORT A POTTY]

Originally posted by U n i o n 0015:
All I know is that it's about time Apple updated the PowerMacs. I was keen on getting a dual 2.0, but since I can wait, I will. I'm just hoping that the revisions that (hopefully) come in time for WWDC are good ones and not place holders like the newest PowerBook revisions were.

Anyone else notice that Apple dropped the 6600GT from the Power Mac BTO?

dropped the 6800GT, you mean? yeah, they did this a while back.

[Eug Wanker]

Somebody at Ars posted that the lecturer on high performance computing seminar said that when the G5 970FX came out, yields were only 15%, but now they're closer to 90%. Given all the complaints Apple made about IBM about the iMac, Power Mac, and Xserve delays, I can believe that initial 15% number. And we now know that there are no such delays on 2.5 GHz Power Macs or 2.3 GHz Xserves.

If that 80-90% statement is true, that bodes very well for relatively high GHz dual-core G5 970MP chips.

Maybe this will finally come true...



...well, except for the 12 months part.

[Krypton]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:



...well, except for the 12 months part.

It says "onths" silly; Jobs' own unit of time, just under 1.5 years.

[BZ]

Ahem...

BZ

[Krypton]

Originally posted by BZ:
Ahem...

BZ

Steve has a magic trumpet, so that he blows in place of his chips.

[Eug Wanker]

Heheh. The rumours are coming out of the woodwork.


From Think Secret/AppleNova forums:

I can't say anything about ETA, but based on discussions with some contacts in the industry, I've got a pretty clear picture of the next Powermacs. The CPU will indeed by the 970mp, and it will debut in a twin dual-core iteration in at least one of the Powermacs. The case is basically the same but the grill is new. No word on video card options, but apparently this thing holds a TON of RAM.


MacRumors Page 2:

The ambitious report claims that the new machines will include the rumored 970MP starting at 2GHz, alongside 2.5GHz and 3.0GHz models. The first Blu-ray drives (Apple adopts Blu-Ray) are expected to make their debut in the top-end model.

Under the hood support for Hypertransport 2.0, PCI-Express, and a new Audio IC is reported. Memory support will be boosted to 32GB of RAM in the high end models with availability of 4GB DDR modules.

While G5 PowerBooks are not expected, a higher resolution "PowerBook HD" is expected to be debuted at NAB as well. The new model is expected to simply boost the resolution of the current 17" PowerBook and offer the ATI Mobility Radeon 9800.


And remember...

[BZ]

Eug, you are digging really deep when you head to the Think Secret forums. Wow.

BZ

[Simon]

Originally posted by BZ:
Eug, you are digging really deep when you head to the Think Secret forums. Wow.

People do unbelievable stuff when they get desperate enough...

[BZ]

Originally posted by Simon:
People do unbelievable stuff when they get desperate enough...

Yup.

Off I go.

BZ

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
People do unbelievable stuff when they get desperate enough...

Desperate for what?

Nah, I'm just a geek.

[BZ]

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=5256

For those of you who want to play along at home (or work).

BZ

[U n i o n 0015]

Man, I hope so. I wanted to get a dual 2.5GHz, but what's the point if something that blows it out of the water is a few months away? My only hope is that it costs roughly the same.

[osxisfun]

http://forums.applenova.com/showthread.php?t=5256

holy cow. oceleot's post is amazing!

[Eug Wanker]

For the record, I think that MacRumors Page 2 post is utter bull.

The AppleNova post is vague enough to be more believable, but of course, it's the first and only post of a n00b there. So basically, I don't have much faith in that post either. However, even if it's just made up, I wouldn't be surprised if it's relatively close to the real truth.

ie. I do believe that dual-core MP is coming though and I also do believe dual dual-core quads are coming, too. Furthermore, I can believe the high yield statements (mentioned earlier in this thread) for IBM's current G5 chips.

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by U n i o n 0015:
Man, I hope so. I wanted to get a dual 2.5GHz, but what's the point if something that blows it out of the water is a few months away? My only hope is that it costs roughly the same.

Sell it, buy a new one!

[CIA]

Think we might see 802.11n finally appear in these new quads also? Apple says it's the year of HD, and moving video around using 802.11n is possible. With bluetooth 2.0 in the new powerbooks. I wouldn't be supprised to see "Airport Extreme 2" or whatever they decide to call it.

[Leonard]

So if you take those rumors and divide them by 4 add in a bucket of salt... we come out with Power Mac G5's based on the 970MP, with Hypertransport 2.0 (that's definitely been ready for awhile), with PCI-Express in the high-end model.

[MORT A POTTY]

Originally posted by Leonard:
So if you take those rumors and divide them by 4 add in a bucket of salt... we come out with Power Mac G5's based on the 970MP, with Hypertransport 2.0 (that's definitely been ready for awhile), with PCI-Express in the high-end model.

actually, that pretty much sums up the rumors anyway...I dunno why divide by 4...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Leonard:
So if you take those rumors and divide them by 4 add in a bucket of salt... we come out with Power Mac G5's based on the 970MP, with Hypertransport 2.0 (that's definitely been ready for awhile), with PCI-Express in the high-end model.

Yeah, the rumours are pretty simple:

1) 970MP <-- evidence exists
2) Quad Mac <-- evidence exists
3) PCIe <-- purely a guess
4) DDR2 <-- purely a guess
5) Etc.

BTW, I think if they do go PCIe, it will be across the line (except for maybe the lowest end model).

Oh and I don't know what you mean by "divide them by 4" either.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Yeah, the rumours are pretty simple:

1) 970MP <-- evidence exists

Evidence exists that IBM is trying to build and ship it. No evidence exists that Apple has it running in a PowerMac or that they are planning on selling that model.

2) Quad Mac <-- evidence exists

Evidence exists that Apple has software with a GUI showing possibly 4 CPU cores. However, this software is used for hardware testing/debugging. There is evidence that suggests Apple is testing 4 core hardware; there is no evidence that they plan on selling any.

I'm not saying this won't happen, and actually it's likely that it will happen sometime in the future, but IMHO you are just plain jumping the gun when you suggest that it's evidence for imminent releases. Maybe you should go take a cold shower or something.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
Evidence exists that IBM is trying to build and ship it.

So you agree then.

No evidence exists that Apple has it running in a PowerMac

Apple's CHUD tools directly refer to that chip, by name.

"MONster.nib/keyedobjects.nib:879:71755:YPPC 970MP"

(Interestingly, this reference was quickly deleted from the CHUD tools as soon as all the web sites picked up on it.)

or that they are planning on selling that model.

True of course, but that's the same with all pre-release rumours.

Evidence exists that Apple has software with a GUI showing possibly 4 CPU cores.

However, this software is used for hardware testing/debugging. There is evidence that suggests Apple is testing 4 core hardware

So you agree then.

there is no evidence that they plan on selling any.

True of course, but that's the same with all pre-release rumours.

I'm not saying this won't happen, and actually it's likely that it will happen sometime in the future

So you agree then.

but you are just plain jumping the gun when you suggest that it's evidence for imminent releases.

The post didn't actually say they were imminent. In fact, while I think the 970MP chip release IS imminent (ie. next few months), I'm not convinced the quad is imminent. However, I do think it makes sense that Apple will introduce a quad sooner rather than later, especially since Tiger 10.4 (with its finer-grained locking) is supposedly being announced very soon (today?).

Maybe you should go take a cold shower or something.

Hey, this is a pre-release rumour thread after all. And after all that, it seems you agreed with my "evidence exists" comments anyway. So I'll repeat the summary:

Yeah, the rumours are pretty simple:

1) 970MP <-- evidence exists
2) Quad Mac <-- evidence exists
3) PCIe <-- purely a guess
4) DDR2 <-- purely a guess
5) Etc.

[Simon]

Interesting cover-up IBM is trying to pull off:

Our apologies!
The original version of this article contained an erroneous
reference to a "970GX." We apologize for any confusion this
may have caused.
--Editors

Nice try.

[MORT A POTTY]

yeah, like anyone believes that...

[macaddict0001]

Oh, I can think of some people dumb enough to believe that.

[Eug Wanker]

I had emailed the guy when his article came out, and he claimed that he himself had never seen a 970GX.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
he claimed that he himself had never seen a 970GX.

Of course not. Then again, no human being has seen an electron before either.

[PB2K]

[quote](I don't doubt there are some quads in Cupertino, but that doesn't mean they will be for sale).[/qoute]

do you think we can get into that building and nick that machine, and some other prototypes? if it fails we might have to do some time but if we succeed we will be the most envied members in the mac community for years to come

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by Simon:
Interesting cover-up IBM is trying to pull off:



Nice try.

Heh, when this story surfaced some time ago, it was even more interesting. The issue was under discussion in Apple Insider and in a first attempt to cover the thing, IBM had put a warning about an "erroneous reference to the "970GX"". AI picked up of course the detail and little after the final statement about an "erroneous reference to a "970GX" was in place. It was only a matter of hours, I don't remember how many. Of course no one is reading silly rumor forums like AI .

[blackwind]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PB2K:

(I don't doubt there are some quads in Cupertino, but that doesn't mean they will be for sale).[/qoute]

do you think we can get into that building and nick that machine, and some other prototypes? if it fails we might have to do some time but if we succeed we will be the most envied members in the mac community for years to come

Intel is going to be releasing dual-core "Pentium D" processors (based off of two Prescott Pentium 4 cores) at roughly the same price point as current Pentium 4's later this month. If Apple doesn't release quad-core Power Macs, low-end PC's will once again be able to match Apple's top-end as in the worst of the G4 days.

When AMD releases dual-core Opterons later this year, Apple would lose its price/performance competitiveness that its top-end has had for the past little while, unless Apple also throws out quad-core Power Macs (or at very least one quad-core Power Mac model).

As such, Apple must release quad-core Power Macs once they have a sufficient quantity of them for a release.

[Eug Wanker]

It will be interesting to see what the power specs are of the 970MP, and its rated speeds.

Apple and IBM now confirm that the original single-core 130 nm G5 970 was over 100 Watts at 2.0 GHz.

[hmurchison2001]

Originally posted by blackwind:
Intel is going to be releasing dual-core "Pentium D" processors (based off of two Prescott Pentium 4 cores) at roughly the same price point as current Pentium 4's later this month. If Apple doesn't release quad-core Power Macs, low-end PC's will once again be able to match Apple's top-end as in the worst of the G4 days.

When AMD releases dual-core Opterons later this year, Apple would lose its price/performance competitiveness that its top-end has had for the past little while, unless Apple also throws out quad-core Power Macs (or at very least one quad-core Power Mac model).

As such, Apple must release quad-core Power Macs once they have a sufficient quantity of them for a release.

Your post seems to be based on the supposition that

Pentium 4= Dual G5 performance.

http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html

says otherwise. If the G5 is competitive already then I don't expect a dual core Pentium to do much damage. I also don't think that Windows multitasks as well as OSX which will get even better with Tiger's fine grain locking.

Powermac performance is fine. Tiger will make it even better and we're going to see faster cpus in a matter of weeks.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
It will be interesting to see what the power specs are of the 970MP, and its rated speeds.

Apple and IBM now confirm that the original single-core 130 nm G5 970 was over 100 Watts at 2.0 GHz.

well that explains the fans....

no G5 for me until the power rate gets to 75-80watts

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
well that explains the fans....

no G5 for me until the power rate gets to 75-80watts

Apple claims the Xserve's G5 2.3 has a max power of 55 Watts. It seems that IBM has been able to get the power utilization way down. I suspect that today's G5 2.5 fits easily into your arbitrary power requirements.

BTW, the G5 2.3 power spec is what makes me hopeful about the dual-core 970MP coming out at higher than 2.5 GHz.

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Apple claims the Xserve's G5 2.3 has a max power of 55 Watts. It seems that IBM has been able to get the power utilization way down. I suspect that today's G5 2.5 fits easily into your arbitrary power requirements.

BTW, the G5 2.3 power spec is what makes me hopeful about the dual-core 970MP coming out at higher than 2.5 GHz.

excellent.

dual core me baby!

or maybe just a powerbook. I'm still on the fence..(might need mobility this summer.)

is it the 18th yet?

[U n i o n 0015]

Originally posted by osxisfun:


is it the 18th yet?

What happens on the 18th? NAB '05?

I hope new PowerMacs get announced before June...if not, that is a ridiculously long time to wait. It's just aggrevating to keep checking this thread every day and never hear any news. I want to buy my PM already, darnit!

[osxisfun]

Originally posted by U n i o n 0015:
What happens on the 18th? NAB '05?

I hope new PowerMacs get announced before June...if not, that is a ridiculously long time to wait. It's just aggrevating to keep checking this thread every day and never hear any news. I want to buy my PM already, darnit!

its the monday after the sunday NAB apple announcements....

if they announce new machines i would expect them there or then it will be a while IMO

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
its the monday after the sunday NAB apple announcements....

if they announce new machines i would expect them there or then it will be a while IMO

The April 17 event is The Production Value of HD:

To see the latest Apple technology, please join
Apple for a special presentation at NAB 2005.


There is also a special event for developers on the 20th at NAB:

Apple is inviting select members of the video and film developer community to join us for a special presentation on how to fully leverage Mac OS X "Tiger" and Apple’s hardware product line, and better integrate with Apple's professional applications.


I'm sure we'll see the new pro A/V applications at these events, but who knows what new hardware will be there.

[osxisfun]

uh oh.


amazon extened their rebates including the current G5s until the 26th.

no new macs?

Yah i know amazon does not know....or do they?

[Pierre B.]

Originally posted by osxisfun:

Yah i know amazon does not know....or do they?

I don't know, however I don't see why Apple would break the yearly update cycle for the G5 lines they seem to have adopted, especially now that we are only 2 months away from WWDC. Besides, releasing Tiger this or the next month, essentially prepares, in some sense, the way for new hardware in June.

[blackwind]

Originally posted by hmurchison2001:
Your post seems to be based on the supposition that

Pentium 4= Dual G5 performance.

http://www.barefeats.com/macvpc.html

says otherwise. If the G5 is competitive already then I don't expect a dual core Pentium to do much damage. I also don't think that Windows multitasks as well as OSX which will get even better with Tiger's fine grain locking.

Powermac performance is fine. Tiger will make it even better and we're going to see faster cpus in a matter of weeks.

No, I believe that a dual G5 is about equal to a dual Xeon (the closest approximation to a dual Pentium 4), at least in floating-point operations.

What the problem would be is when people will be able to get dual-core Pentium 4-based machines for $1000 or so (since Intel will not be raising prices for dual-core Pentium D's... rather they will lower single-core prices).

If Apple's Power Mac line does not have quad-core machines, how would one justify paying over $2000 for a dual-core Power Mac when a dual-core Pentium 4 would be that much cheaper?

That is why I am certain that Apple will release quad-core Power Macs as soon as they have built up enough supply for a launch.

[MORT A POTTY]

Originally posted by Pierre B.:
I don't know, however I don't see why Apple would break the yearly update cycle for the G5 lines they seem to have adopted, especially now that we are only 2 months away from WWDC. Besides, releasing Tiger this or the next month, essentially prepares, in some sense, the way for new hardware in June.

well, they don't exactly have a yearly cycle... they announce something, then six months later you can get it, then six months after that, they discontinue said product and announce a new one which will ship six months later.

[osxisfun]

they don't have yearly cycles.

check out the buyers guide at macrumors.com

its more like 6 or 7 months...


>e:
303 (Average = 176)

[MORT A POTTY]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
they don't have yearly cycles.

check out the buyers guide at macrumors.com

its more like 6 or 7 months...


>e:
303 (Average = 176)

that's G4s too, it was mentioned, G5

[osxisfun]

oh.

anyone else get the feeling that is NAB or June?