[RCT]

I agree completely with eggman, I'm in the same boat. The fact is, I'd be over the moon with a Mac Pro at the current config, and the only thing that stopped me buying one a few days ago was all the rumours about a new one 'tomorrow or the day after'.
I'm getting a new Mac Pro on Dec 1st no matter what. At current config it'll do what I want with bells on and I'll be ecstatic. It'll still be a million times better than my creaky old G4. If Apple announce a new one on Dec 2nd, so what? I doubt that the top Mac Pro will be included in the upgrade as its only a few months old: I suspect that an upgrade (if any) will be for the low-to-mid models. I also doubt that any new upgrade, even if announced, will be available in time for Xmas, and even if it does happen, it certainly won't be available here in the UK for a few months after that. I can't wait that long.

[zacharykrannert]

the end of the day is coming near and apple didn't release the new mac pro's that people have been hoping for today. i just want this damn thing before january. that's way too long of a wait.

[goMac]

I won't buy one of the current ones because they are waaaay overpriced. It's not as much an issue with me not liking the hardware.

[bballe336]

Originally Posted by stwf 

While I appreciate the informed views of the members of this forum, a quick check has the 'a new mac pro is around the corner' posts starting sometime in Mid-July. So it's clear no one really knows when the upgrade will occur.
Personally I'm using a early model G5 and have been dying to upgrade, but I'm hoping for a new form factor as much as new processors. The gigantic aluminum enclosures are a throwback to the G5's need for 7 fans or something. What I want is quad-core, awesome graphics card, RAM, and a huge HD in as small a package as possible.
I am space constrained so the thought of replacing my giant G5 enclosure with one equally large bu unnecessary is just too much...

Considering the parts inside the MP tower I'd have to say that it's very space efficient. Everything is packed in really well and there is no unused space. It's a pro machine, it's not meant to be cute and small, but rather to be the absolute fastest machine for it's application, and to do that you need the space that the current tower provides.

[goMac]

Here are some more benches on the 3800. The 3800 easily creams the 8600gt.

AMD Radeon HD 3800: ATI Strikes Back | Tom's Hardware

[mduell]

Originally Posted by RCT 

I doubt that the top Mac Pro will be included in the upgrade as its only a few months old: I suspect that an upgrade (if any) will be for the low-to-mid models. I also doubt that any new upgrade, even if announced, will be available in time for Xmas, and even if it does happen, it certainly won't be available here in the UK for a few months after that. I can't wait that long.

Expected CPU upgrades (based on Intel 1ku prices):
dual 2.0 -> quad 2.5
dual 2.66 -> quad 2.83
dual 3.0 -> quad 3.0
So there is a substantial performance increase in the low to mid range, but there is a substantial ($700) price drop for the quad 3.0 system.

The top end video card will also double in performance (possibly with a small price drop). RAM (base and max) will probably double, and HDD will see a marginal upgrade. All of that hardware should be available for shipment well before Xmas (if not immediately).

Originally Posted by goMac 

Here are some more benches on the 3800. The 3800 easily creams the 8600gt.

AMD Radeon HD 3800: ATI Strikes Back | Tom's Hardware

HD3870 is about 15% slower than 8800GT, despite being just 12% cheaper (which is only about 1% cheaper when you look at the whole system). HD3870 also draws about 5W more and needs twice as many slots.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mduell 

HD3870 is about 15% slower than 8800GT, despite being just 12% cheaper (which is only about 1% cheaper when you look at the whole system). HD3870 also draws about 5W more and needs twice as many slots.

The HD3870 is about 75% of the price of the 8800GT, but it's only 5%-10% slower. It's a great entry level card. I think though the 8800 GTX will be the high end option.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The HD3870 is about 75% of the price of the 8800GT, but it's only 5%-10% slower. It's a great entry level card. I think though the 8800 GTX will be the high end option.

8800GT MSRP is $200-250... I was being generous by comparing the $220 HD3870 MSRP to the high end of the scale. HD3870 is 25-35% slower than 8800GT in more demanding games (Oblivion, Crysis), but does catch up to just 5% slower in Quake Wars and 10% slower in UT3.

8800GTX is old, power hungry, and only a tad faster than 8800GT... I don't see Apple going for the GTX.

[cube-dude]

Originally Posted by Simon 

That was a quiet update - those are allowed to be on Thursdays. Loud and fancy MP updates still have to be on Tuesdays.

I am, reluctantly and sadly, becoming a believer.

Any consensus on November 20, or Macworld, or somewhere inbetween?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mduell 

8800GT MSRP is $200-250... I was being generous by comparing the $220 HD3870 MSRP to the high end of the scale. HD3870 is 25-35% slower than 8800GT in more demanding games (Oblivion, Crysis), but does catch up to just 5% slower in Quake Wars and 10% slower in UT3.

I'm not seeing GT's anywhere for $200-$250. The 8600's are $200-$250.

Originally Posted by mduell 

8800GTX is old, power hungry, and only a tad faster than 8800GT... I don't see Apple going for the GTX.

It benches better than the 8800GT, but I could see Apple maybe just going for the GT based on power requirements.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by cube-dude 

I am, reluctantly and sadly, becoming a believer.

Any consensus on November 20, or Macworld, or somewhere inbetween?

I think it has to be before Thanksgiving, which really only leaves the 20th.

[RCT]

I think it has to be before Thanksgiving, which really only leaves the 20th.

hehehe... my birthday's on the 20th. That would make a nice present, Mr Jobs.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RCT 

hehehe... my birthday's on the 20th. That would make a nice present, Mr Jobs.

On the other hand, if it doesn't come before Thanksgiving, that pretty much only leaves MacWorld. I highly doubt Apple will roll out a new modal during the Christmas shopping season.

[Reggie Fowler]

Of course i know technology is constantly changing. But the next MacPro update should be a Major one (not just a minor speed bump update). Therefore, those of us who purchase the new machine in December or January will be devastated if in by X-Mas 2008 Apple releases a total revision to the MacPro based on that new processor.

Normal in the industry are 'minor' updates every few months. But not major, followed by major!

[mduell]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm not seeing GT's anywhere for $200-$250. The 8600's are $200-$250.

Are we using the same currency? 8600GT is USD80 and 8600GTS is USD130 on the market right now, about half the price of the HD3850/3870. Even ClubMac sells the 8800GT (for PCs, not Macs) for $250.

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

Of course i know technology is constantly changing. But the next MacPro update should be a Major one (not just a minor speed bump update). Therefore, those of us who purchase the new machine in December or January will be devastated if in by X-Mas 2008 Apple releases a total revision to the MacPro based on that new processor.

Normal in the industry are 'minor' updates every few months. But not major, followed by major!

200...8?
Apple should be releasing Mac Pro updates every 6-9 months as Intel updates the Xeon line and nVidia/ATi update the graphics chips. That they've gone this long without and update or at least a price drop is crazy; shame they lump all the desktop Mac sales together in the public figures, I'd love to know how many they're actually selling.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Are we using the same currency? 8600GT is USD80 and 8600GTS is USD130 on the market right now, about half the price of the HD3850/3870. Even ClubMac sells the 8800GT (for PCs, not Macs) for $250.

That's the first 8800 I've seen for $250. I went on Pricewatch and New Egg and didn't see any 8800's below $270.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by stwf 

...a quick check has the 'a new mac pro is around the corner' posts starting sometime in Mid-July. So it's clear no one really knows when the upgrade will occur.

Correct, a new Mac Pro has been overdue for months. I do believe that those posts you read repeatedly also did say that no one really knows when the upgrade will occur.

Originally Posted by stwf 

...I'm hoping for a new form factor as much as new processors. The gigantic aluminum enclosures are a throwback to the G5's need for 7 fans or something. What I want is quad-core, awesome graphics card, RAM, and a huge HD in as small a package as possible.
I am space constrained so the thought of replacing my giant G5 enclosure with one equally large bu unnecessary is just too much...

I have the totally opposite opinion. I do not want any case redesign except as necessary to improve function, not form. IMO a versatile heavy duty heat tolerant case is exactly what I want for a high end MP. I do not want smaller, I want more power. Folks who want one hard drive and cute can buy iMacs and Minis. I will have 4 large hard drives, RAID card, at least 10 GB RAM and advanced graphics cards; for that I expect no less of a case than the excellent existing MP case - certainly not smaller.

-Allen Wicks

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

...those of us who purchase the new machine in December or January will be devastated if in by X-Mas 2008 Apple releases a total revision to the MacPro based on that new processor.

Sorry but tech marches on (a good thing). Folks who get devastated by processor upgrades like Harpertown to Nehalem in 8-12 months need to get over it. That is the way it is, and a good thing. Don't worry, Harpertown will not stop working when Nehalem is released.

-Allen Wicks

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I do not want any case redesign except as necessary to improve function, not form. IMO a versatile heavy duty heat tolerant case is exactly what I want for a high end MP. I do not want smaller, I want more power. Folks who want one hard drive and cute can buy iMacs and Minis. I will have 4 large hard drives, RAID card, at least 10 GB RAM and advanced graphics cards; for that I expect no less of a case than the excellent existing MP case - certainly not smaller.

-Allen Wicks

Amen. I would love the extra space achieved by miniaturization used not to make the case smaller, but to add an extra row of 4 hard drive bays— maxing the HDD capacity of the RAID card all in one machine. Two 15k Cheetah SAS drives in the second optical bay (one system, one apps), four 10k rpm WD raptors in RAID 0 as a scratch volume, four 1TB Seagate Barracudas in RAID 0 as a file storage volume. Fantasy Central.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

...Fantasy Central.

Nice fantasy though!

Note that even one more hard drive (5 total) would significantly improve RAID setup choices by allowing RAID 0+1 plus a non-RAID drive. Six or more drives would be even better.

-Allen Wicks

Edit: Just the fact that we are making such comments is commentary on where the world of graphics users is going. More and larger files, super strong processing such that data i/o becomes more critical.

[Laurence]

Does anyone know how much extra cost would it add to have a bootable hardware RAID 5 on the motherboard? I don't really know enough about the hardware details, but it seems odd that you can get $100 motherboards with hardware RAID on the PC side, but there are also RAID cards that cost in excess of $1000. I realize that the more expensive cards must be better, more reliable, etc or they wouldn't cost so much, but it also seems that almost every new PC motherboard comes with a basic hardware RAID setup. Any idea whether Apple might add such a feature in the next Mac Pro?

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Laurence 

Does anyone know how much extra cost would it add to have a bootable hardware RAID 5 on the motherboard? I don't really know enough about the hardware details, but it seems odd that you can get $100 motherboards with hardware RAID on the PC side, but there are also RAID cards that cost in excess of $1000. I realize that the more expensive cards must be better, more reliable, etc or they wouldn't cost so much, but it also seems that almost every new PC motherboard comes with a basic hardware RAID setup. Any idea whether Apple might add such a feature in the next Mac Pro?

Since Apple just very recently added the RAID card to CTO choices at $1000 cost I doubt if it will be a free component of the next MPs. It would be nice if the price fell a lot however. I will be buying one.

Note that software and third party hardware choices do exist for less money but performance varies widely (and wildly?). I have no insight into any particularly cost effective solution.

-Allen Wicks

[mduell]

Originally Posted by goMac 

That's the first 8800 I've seen for $250. I went on Pricewatch and New Egg and didn't see any 8800's below $270.

Indeed, they're hard to find. IIRC the nVidia CEO said he expected to see them at MSRP ($199-249) by Thanksgiving.

Originally Posted by Laurence 

Does anyone know how much extra cost would it add to have a bootable hardware RAID 5 on the motherboard? I don't really know enough about the hardware details, but it seems odd that you can get $100 motherboards with hardware RAID on the PC side, but there are also RAID cards that cost in excess of $1000. I realize that the more expensive cards must be better, more reliable, etc or they wouldn't cost so much, but it also seems that almost every new PC motherboard comes with a basic hardware RAID setup. Any idea whether Apple might add such a feature in the next Mac Pro?

The dirty little secret is that the RAID on a $100 motherboards is that it's not quite a complete hardware solution; it still relies on the CPU a lot, particularly for RAID5. 'Real' or 'full' hardware RAID5 cards have their own processor and start at about $500; Apple's isn't that bad of a deal given the integration it has.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by mduell 

The dirty little secret is that the RAID on a $100 motherboards is that it's not quite a complete hardware solution; it still relies on the CPU a lot, particularly for RAID5. 'Real' or 'full' hardware RAID5 cards have their own processor and start at about $500; Apple's isn't that bad of a deal given the integration it has.

Which is exactly why I think RAID could still be in the cards for the next Mac Pro. It would be good enough for Joe Six Pack Prosumer, but real professionals would probably still get the actual card.

[mduell]

Oh yea, I forgot to mention the Intel 631xESB/632xESB I/O Controller Hub in the Mac Pro supports those 'cheap' 0/1/0+1 RAID setups, but I'm not sure if the Mac Pro's logic board has the Intel RAID Technology Option ROM installed, and even if it does they don't currently expose the RAID setup interface.

[Reggie Fowler]

i just found out from a little birdie that they are planning on releasing the new machines Nov 29th.
Sweet!

[cube-dude]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

i just found out for a little birdie that they are planning on releasing the new machines Nov 29th.

This information might be suspect if the bird in question is a turkey looking for a Thanksgiving pardon. He'd say anything to make it through next week.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Reggie Fowler 

i just found out for a little birdie that they are planning on releasing the new machines Nov 29th.
Sweet!

Great... so I'd have to stall my developer's discount another week...

On the other hand, if I used my educator discount instead I could go to a real Apple store to pick up my machine.

[cube-dude]

Two clues? Here's what Amazon has to say about the 2 x 3 GHz Quad: Temporarily out of stock. Order now and we'll deliver when available. We'll e-mail you with an estimated delivery date as soon as we have more information.

Additionally, for this model as well as the 2 x 2.66 Ghz Dual there is a rebate that expires December 3 (a Monday).

This could point to a release of Tuesday, December 4, but - hey, at this rate - who knows! I'm still rooting for November 20.

[goMac]

Best Buy is also out of Mac Pros.

There won't be any release in December. The last time Apple released something in December was in 1995 and it was a monitor.

[misterdna]

Hey Allen, just curious what you do with your computer? That sounds like a pretty serious system! I'm amazed what I can do with Photoshop and FCP on a MacBook Pro, so I can't imagine the speed and power the system you describe would have.

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

I will have 4 large hard drives, RAID card, at least 10 GB RAM and advanced graphics cards

-Allen Wicks

[Bigfoot]

I'm just wondering how many pages this thread will be up to if they don't come out until January. Shall we start guessing now, like a "how many jelly beans in a jar" contest?

[stwf]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

Amen. I would love the extra space achieved by miniaturization used not to make the case smaller, but to add an extra row of 4 hard drive bays— maxing the HDD capacity of the RAID card all in one machine. Two 15k Cheetah SAS drives in the second optical bay (one system, one apps), four 10k rpm WD raptors in RAID 0 as a scratch volume, four 1TB Seagate Barracudas in RAID 0 as a file storage volume. Fantasy Central.

Well as a developer I have no need for all those hard drives. I doubt many people do. Isn't a 4 drive RAID 0 array for a scratch disk overkill? A separate drive for apps and the system? I can't imagine the system bus wouldn't bog down long before a subsystem like that would be needed.

I just want a blazing processor, tons of RAM and a video card that can drive 2 30" Cinema Displays. If a mini could drive a single Cinema Display a small external screen I'd already own one.

1 massive hard drive is enough. I prefer to keep my RAID array as a Firewire 800 external (RAID 1) as it makes it easier to pop in a new drive when I need to take a backup offsite. To me it seems like there is alot of room between the pro-only $20,000 monster you described and the red headed stepchild MacMini.

It may be time to split the pro line again, Bring back the Cube!!!

[ninahagen]

Originally Posted by stwf 

Well as a developer I have no need for all those hard drives. I doubt many people do.

Only the small percentage of pros doing heavy graphics work, 3-D rendering, and especially hard-core video folks. At Pixar, that would be a modest system.

Originally Posted by stwf 

Isn't a 4 drive RAID 0 array for a scratch disk overkill? A separate drive for apps and the system?

No, definitely not. RAID 0 allows massive upgrades in read/write time with each additional HD. And if you are working on 10+ hi def video frames in whatever editing app you use and several stills (like in a documetary sequence) at one time in CS3, and all are monster files, you need all the speed you can get + high capacity in the scratch.

Originally Posted by stwf 

I can't imagine the system bus wouldn't bog down long before a subsystem like that would be needed.

That is an interesting point. Could any of the veteran members speak to that?

Originally Posted by stwf 

1 massive hard drive is enough.

For you that may be, but for some it wouldn't, such as:

those with more than 1TB of data
those who want RAID without the slowdown of firewire
those who want to back up internally (also faster than firewire) with Carbon Copy Clone (not perfect, I know, but some do it)
those with more than 300GB of data who want to use a 15k SAS drive (the biggest is 300GB)

Originally Posted by stwf 

I prefer to keep my RAID array as a Firewire 800 external (RAID 1) as it makes it easier to pop in a new drive when I need to take a backup offsite.

How much data do you have?

Originally Posted by stwf 

To me it seems like there is alot of room between the pro-only $20,000 monster you described and the red headed stepchild MacMini.

It may be time to split the pro line again, Bring back the Cube!!!

Heavens yes, the most beautiful mac ever. Plus, what Apple could do with Penryn in that amount of space would be mind-bending.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ninahagen 

That is an interesting point. Could any of the veteran members speak to that?

CPU bus (per CPU): ~80 Gbps
RAM bus (per channel): ~40 Gbps
4 fast hard drives: ~3 Gbps on a good day
Not a totally accurate way of looking at it, but it shows the trend; disk is always the slowest part of the system. That's why big servers have hundred-odd disk arrays; they're after spindles on gigabytes.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by misterdna 

Hey Allen, just curious what you do with your computer? That sounds like a pretty serious system! I'm amazed what I can do with Photoshop and FCP on a MacBook Pro, so I can't imagine the speed and power the system you describe would have.

Like you I currently use a MBP and it works. I also use an old G4 tower that was Apple's best in its day. The G4 tower's power seemed infinite when I ordered it, but once delivered it was just a good working tool; one that turned out to have a 6 year life cycle.

Today I mostly use Aperture and the Adobe CS apps in a graphics plus DSLR capture (Nikon D2x) workflow. I consider 4 large hard drives, RAID card, at least 10 GB RAM and an advanced graphics card to be pretty basic, not huge, for pro graphics work going forward:

RAID (card $1000, drives $1000)
MPs are very powerful computers. Most MP graphics users who do not implement RAID solutions with a new MP are limited by their hard drives. 2 drives are the minimum necessary for RAID 0 and another 2 drives are necessary to achieve RAID 0+1. RAID 0+1 (real time redundancy) is a luxury that I may or may not implement but either way 4 drives are a minimum to even attempt to optimize i/o for the kind of performance that any new MP will provide. The RAID card makes the RAID stable and fast; exactly how much improvement over cheaper solutions I do not know.

Note that (IMO essential) going after the performance bottleneck of hard drive i/o using RAID 0 proportionally increases the likelihood of data-losing hard drive failure. E.g. a 2-drive RAID 0, while 2x as fast also is 2x as likely to fail, a 3-drive 3x as fast and 3x as likely to fail, etc. Hence RAID 0+1 and other additional-drive-requiring schemata follow as necessary evils once one starts freeing up data i/o bottlenecks using RAID 0.

RAM ($400)
Photoshop lags in usage of available RAM, but even so 8 GB has been beneficial on OS X boxes for years and 8-16 GB has recently been noted as advantageous by PS engineers. I consider RAM the most cost-effective performance improvement available, so with an 8 GB kit from OWC now down to ~$400 I will add at least a 4x2 GB kit to any new MP which will total to 10 GB RAM. I fully expect to increase that RAM amount as apps/OS evolve during the life of a new MP.

GRAPHICS CARD ($300)
After more than a decade of using Photoshop and the rest of the CS apps, Aperture has now become my most important app. Unlike Adobe's apps Apple's Aperture takes very good advantage of advanced graphics, so an advanced card should be on every Aperture user's needs list.

Note that someone mentioned "$20,000." The adds I list above are less than $3000 above the basic MP - and I use Apple prices. A careful buyer can double the hard drive setup for similar cost. IMO setups without those adds are suboptimal.

-Allen Wicks

[SierraDragon]

Apple's Black Friday sales event is a logical reason as to why new MPs are delayed; a last shot at clearing out inventory. Announcing new MPs right before a sales event would deflate said sales event.

-Allen Wicks

[musicforme]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Apple's Black Friday sales event is a logical reason as to why new MPs are delayed; a last shot at clearing out inventory. Announcing new MPs right before a sales event would deflate said sales event.

-Allen Wicks

I hope you're right. I'll finish my Fall semester next Wednesday which would work out well for me timing wise.

Thanks for all the thoughtful responses in the posts you make here.

[cube-dude]

Amazon, November 18:

Originally Posted by cube-dude 

Here's what Amazon has to say about the 2 x 3 GHz Quad: Temporarily out of stock. Order now and we'll deliver when available. We'll e-mail you with an estimated delivery date as soon as we have more information.

Amazon, tonight:

Availability: Usually ships within 3 to 5 weeks. This item will arrive after December 24.

U.S. Apple Store, tonight:

the usual 2-4 business days

[Bigfoot]

Originally Posted by cube-dude 

Amazon, tonight:
Availability: Usually ships within 3 to 5 weeks. This item will arrive after December 24.

U.S. Apple Store, tonight:
the usual 2-4 business days

Apple & Amazon are in cahoots to throw us off the scent.

[musicforme]

Originally Posted by Bigfoot 

Apple & Amazon are in cahoots to throw us off the scent.

I just checked Amazon.com and the 2.66 shows the following: Only 3 left in stock--order soon..

If this continues through the day tomorrow, I'll be signing up for my ADC Student Membership tomorrow night so I can have the verification complete in the next couple of days.

[Simon]

Wow, no new MPs today!

If there's no announcement tomorrow we might not get new MPs till next year. Major bummer.

[misterdna]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Wow, no new MPs today!

If there's no announcement tomorrow we might not get new MPs till next year. Major bummer.

Why is tomorrow the deadline in your mind? Above someone suggests Thursday will be the day.

[Simon]

Apart form expos, Macs have almost always been launched on Tuesdays. Sometimes Wednesdays.

[MallyMal]

Just noticed that Dell has workstations with the Intel 5400 chips now. Dell

[goMac]

Again, the last Macbook update was on Thursday. It's already been predicted in this thread that the Mac Pro update will be this Thursday. If Mac Pros don't launch by Thursday, we'll be waiting until MWSF.

[musicforme]

Originally Posted by MallyMal 

Just noticed that Dell has workstations with the Intel 5400 chips now. Dell

Not to distract from the nature of this thread, but what I found interesting of the options on that Dell is 16X DVD+/-RW AND 4X BLU-RAY DISC [add $545].

How bad would Apple look if Dell has blu-ray as an option and the new Pro doesn't.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by musicforme 

Not to distract from the nature of this thread, but what I found interesting of the options on that Dell is 16X DVD+/-RW AND 4X BLU-RAY DISC [add $545].

How bad would Apple look if Dell has blu-ray as an option and the new Pro doesn't.

Both Sony and Toshiba (among others) have had BluRay or HDDVD equipped desktops and laptops for about a year and a half now. Dell adding the option on one workstation isn't going to make Apple look any worse in the HD optical media arena.

I'm really hoping for Thursday. After using Leopard on my parent's iMac over Thanksgiving I'm leaning toward buying a Mac Pro instead of a homebuild Core 2 Quad box even though it will be more than twice the price.

[ssegaric]

I really hope that "reliable source" that said Apple will be releasing new Mac Pros on November 29th is right. I highly doubt it, but I live in hope. If they don't release/announce them tomorrow, I'm going to MacWorld. If they don't announce/release them there, then I'll be the guy making a spectacle of myself and proclaiming that I'm going to build a Hackintosh!

Steve

[awcopus]

When I started this thread, I had no idea that Apple was going to **** up this badly. November will end with no new Pro desktops.

They've had options all along. Updating the gpu offerings. Charging less for their machines. Including larger HDs, more memory. Adding blu-ray and/or hd-dvd options. They've had options for demonstrating that they care about this product line. Apple certainly has the resources to demonstrate a real commitment to keeping its pro-users ahead of the curve. Obviously, they really don't care anymore. Macs for pro-use are so utterly niche, and apparently Apple's fine with this.

Apple's computers are basically fashion accessories, now. I love my Macbook Pro. It's great. But most of the people buying them are showing them off like Gucci handbags. It's not about pro-use anymore. It's about a look, a lifestyle brand, fashion.

I've never felt less loyal to Apple as a professional. So disappointing. Apple (Computer) Inc., indeed.

Not sure I have the Mac Pro Waiting Blues, anymore. You don't get the blues when you stop caring, and if Apple doesn't care, why the hell should we?