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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Texas Church Shooting: Forget Prayers, Send More Guns: Or else, Tryanny?

Texas Church Shooting: Forget Prayers, Send More Guns: Or else, Tryanny? (Page 10)
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subego
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May 18, 2018, 02:12 AM
 
Also note, Heller didn’t answer the question of whether the Second Amendment applies to the states. D.C. isn’t a state. It only determined the right of the people versus the right of the militia question. That it applies to the states was a later case, McDonald v. Chicago.
     
subego
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May 18, 2018, 02:23 AM
 
And to be clear, we are in agreement the original intent of the law was for it to be a right of the militia. What I’m objecting to is the assertion the Supreme Court had determined it to be the case. That never happened.

The Supreme Court has made one decision on the matter, and that decision was Heller.
     
OreoCookie
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May 18, 2018, 02:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
And to be clear, we are in agreement the original intent of the law was for it to be a right of the militia. What I’m objecting to is the assertion the Supreme Court had determined it to be the case. That never happened.

The Supreme Court has made one decision on the matter, and that decision was Heller.
I think you are just wrong on that, because in its >200 year history, Heller isn't the first time this question came up. The choice not to answer this question was not accidental, but deliberate, because the arguments that Heller answered were made in defense of the other cases before.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
     
subego
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May 18, 2018, 08:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
I think you are just wrong on that, because in its >200 year history, Heller isn't the first time this question came up.
You’d think that. It didn’t though.

The short explanation is the question couldn’t get addressed by the Supreme Court until the Federal Government infringed on the right.

As far as the Court is concerned, against all odds, Congress has never managed to **** this one up. Not once. Over the entire history of the country.

Without Congress passing a law that infringes on the right, the earliest the militia-people question could have come up is the in 1970s, which is when D.C. stopped being controlled by Congress and instead got its own government. The D.C. City Council, officials of the Federal Government, banned handguns in the 70s.

I’d assume there were challenges to this law before Heller. Previous to the Roberts Court, they declined to hear them. Can one infer an opinion of the earlier Courts from 30 years of rejecting those cases? Absolutely. However an inference is not the same as decided law, and 30 years is a much shorter precedent than over 200.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 18, 2018, 12:30 PM
 
Prepare for more thoughts and prayers
     
andi*pandi
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May 18, 2018, 12:37 PM
 
8-10 deaths. Suspects in custody.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 18, 2018, 01:14 PM
 
Multiple shooters?
     
andi*pandi
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May 18, 2018, 02:10 PM
 
2? One person detained, one in custody. Bombs on premises also. Santa Fe High School, TX

http://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nati...FGP/story.html
     
Thorzdad
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May 18, 2018, 03:56 PM
 
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 18, 2018, 08:44 PM
 
https://www.mediaite.com/online/tx-l...-be-a-problem/
We may have to look at the design of our schools moving forward and retrofitting schools that are already built. And what I mean by that is there are too many entrances and too many exits to our over 8000 campuses in Texas… There aren’t enough people to put a guard at every entrance and exit. You would be talking 25, 30, 40,000 people. But if we can protect a large office building or a courthouse or any major facility, maybe we need to look at limiting the entrance and the exits into our schools so that we can have law enforcement looking at the people who come in one or two entrances.
The problem isn't too many guns, it's too many entrances! The only thing that can stop a bad guy with an entrance is a good guy with an entrance.
     
andi*pandi
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May 18, 2018, 08:49 PM
 
In the past 2 years, I have seen the schools become more prisonlike. It's difficult to get in for legitimate reasons, you have to wait for a teacher to come escort you, parents aren't allowed to let other parents in, even a spouse. We are paying a monitor to sit by the front door of every school. The other doors are locked.

The school is a resource for the community but it's becoming locked down. I run an extracurricular in the school, and fear that next year they will not let us use the room that my taxes pay for.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 18, 2018, 08:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
In the past 2 years, I have seen the schools become more prisonlike. It's difficult to get in for legitimate reasons, you have to wait for a teacher to come escort you, parents aren't allowed to let other parents in, even a spouse. We are paying a monitor to sit by the front door of every school. The other doors are locked.

The school is a resource for the community but it's becoming locked down. I run an extracurricular in the school, and fear that next year they will not let us use the room that my taxes pay for.
America, where we'd rather turn every building into a prison than 'punish' 33% of the population with better vetting and fewer options.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 20, 2018, 10:36 PM
 
Reading quotes from one of the victim's mothers, this case might also be a future domestic violence perpetrator showing his cards really early. Apparently the shooter was rejected by a girl for like, four months straight. She told him off publicly two weeks ago.
     
Thorzdad
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May 21, 2018, 06:58 AM
 
So, an incel posterboy?
     
andi*pandi
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May 21, 2018, 11:46 AM
 
I heard this on the radio:
The Texas lieutenant governor, speaking two days after 10 people were killed in a school shooting in his state, said abortion, divorce and violent video games and movies show that 'we have devalued life,' which he pointed to as a cause of school shootings.
He is pro-gun. My reaction: F U

Nicole Hockley's 6-year-old son, Dylan, was killed in the Sandy Hook Elementary School gun massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, 2012. She said she didn’t agree with much of what the Texas lieutenant governor said but does believe the country has “a problem where we devalue life.”

“The fact that this shooting [in Santa Fe, Texas] has not received a significant amount of coverage, that this shooting is not seeing a significant amount of action, to me that is devaluing life itself. There are 10 people who are dead who are not going back to their families,” Hockley said.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/guns...ry?id=55300369
     
Laminar
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May 21, 2018, 12:23 PM
 
     
Waragainstsleep
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May 24, 2018, 08:33 PM
 
Saw the answer at last: Take all the guns away and when people are upset about it, just send them thoughts and prayers.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Laminar
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May 25, 2018, 09:48 AM
 
Oklahoma Good Guy With A Gun™ stopped a Bad Guy With A Gun. American gun culture finally justified.
     
Thorzdad
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May 26, 2018, 12:07 PM
 
We had a shooting in a middle-school here yesterday. A kid asked permission to leave the classroom (I'm guessing he asked to go to the restroom or something like that) and he came back to the room with two handguns. The teacher managed to tackle and subdue the kid, but not before getting shot three times. Another student was shot, too. No deaths, thankfully.

All the schools in the area went on lockdown. Of course, as soon as the news got out, some me-too nitwit called-in a gun/bomb threat to the high-school.
     
Thorzdad
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May 26, 2018, 06:35 PM
 
Oh, and, just “coincidentally,” the NRA had a tent set-up at a local gun shop today, trolling for new members. Those idiots aren’t merely tone-deaf, they’re completely deaf.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 27, 2018, 01:17 AM
 
The NRA would now like to regulate the first amendment to avoid regulating the second.
https://twitter.com/NRATV/status/999714805333147650
"It's time to put an end to this glorification of carnage in pursuit of ratings because it's killing our kids. It's time for Congress to step up and pass legislation putting common sense limitations on #MSM's ability to report on these school shootings." –@MrColionNoir #MSMsense
     
andi*pandi
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May 27, 2018, 12:32 PM
 
reporting on carnage is glorifying. uhuh.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 27, 2018, 12:45 PM
 
Actually they're not too far off the mark. Before they piped up I was hearing some discussion of cable news needing to stop making every shooting a media event. It is about 15 seconds of fame or the notoriety for some of these shooters. Plus, it encourages copy-catting.

I'd happily trade some 'common sense' concessions about not having cable news make these kids reality stars for some second amendment regulations. I suspect the NRA would not. It's part of what makes their tweet a bit of self-own – you could probably get some consensus on tweaks to how the media covers these just like you can for tweaking gun laws. From the same people.
     
subego
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May 27, 2018, 01:15 PM
 
The press should probably do the right thing regardless of how scummy the NRA are, right?
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 27, 2018, 04:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Oklahoma Good Guy With A Gun™ stopped a Bad Guy With A Gun. American gun culture finally justified.
These weren't average joes: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...man/645607002/
Nazario, a security guard and former small-town cop, stopped by the pier at Louie's Grill & Bar Thursday after work when he heard five or six gunshots.
Whittle’s family told ABC News that he has been in the National Guard for two decades and had previously served in Afghanistan.
I'm glad they were there and brave.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 27, 2018, 04:45 PM
 
On the other hand...
https://twitter.com/mattdpearce/stat...76192978878464
A 100% surreal, this-is-America moment from the Las Vegas massacre, told by one of the police officers at the scene. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-...018-story.html
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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May 27, 2018, 04:48 PM
 


What does this have to do with the second amendment?
     
andi*pandi
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May 27, 2018, 09:09 PM
 
The NRA is scared of Elizabeth Warren.
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 5, 2018, 10:23 AM
 
David Hogg's home gets swatted.
Neither Hogg nor his mother were there at the time.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 5, 2018, 11:19 AM
 
aaand the comments laughing about it.
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 5, 2018, 11:24 AM
 
You expected any different?
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 5, 2018, 11:43 AM
 
Sadly no.
     
The Final Dakar  (op)
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Jun 12, 2018, 06:59 PM
 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.65c5123232af
Until recently, members of the National Rifle Association could view past ratings for political candidates on the website for the organization’s political action committee. Those old grades, which often were used to categorize the NRA-friendliness of sitting lawmakers, are no longer available to logged-in members. A drop-down menu that once displayed past years is now empty.

Jennifer Baker, a spokeswoman for the NRA, initially denied that any change had been made to the organization’s system.

“Nothing has changed with our archives,” she said when we spoke by phone Monday. Told that past grades were no longer available even to members, she speculated that it might be “an IT glitch” on our end.

Another NRA employee indicated that he was aware of the change when a Washington Post reporter called over the weekend to find past grades for legislative candidates. He confirmed that the past grades were no longer online and weren’t available elsewhere.

He also offered a possible rationale.

“I think our enemies were using that,” he said. He did not give his name.
“Our grades are a member service,” she explained. “Our members vote, and one of the services that we provide them is to assess — to the best that anyone can — the candidates’ position on the Second Amendment and make a determination what candidates in a very specific election are the best candidates to protect and defend their constitutional rights.” The grades are issued as close to the election as possible to have the most relevance to that election.

Pressed on the rationale for the change to the website, Baker first expressed frustration at the question.

“I don’t understand — why are you asking? What does it matter to you?” she asked. “The grades are not relevant after the election.”
This doesn't change anything, but it is a sign that the NRA sees a real weakness from their side. That's gotta count for something.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 12, 2018, 09:27 PM
 
I feel like the NRA knows that they are assholes.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 13, 2018, 07:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I feel like the NRA knows that they are assholes.
There's a particular mindset in certain crowds where being an asshole is considered a positive trait.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Jun 13, 2018, 07:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
There's a particular mindset in certain crowds where being an asshole is considered a positive trait.
Trump voters?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
 
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