[Dakar]

If there's one fun part to being agnostic, its that everyone automatically thinks you're atheist.

[smacintush]

Whenever you rely of things OUTSIDE yourself for happiness, you will never be happy.

The ONLY place you can find true happiness is within yourself. When you are unhappy or dissatisfied because of others' opinions of you, it is YOUR CHOICE to be that way whether you realize that right now or not.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

. The point was do you live like you want to live at the risk of being an outsider? I'm curious to see where others made compromises.

I can't say that I do 100%, because it isn't that easy to reverse the damage in this regard that my upbringing in this society has done, but it is something that I am moving towards. With much success I might add.

[Dakar]

Hey, its not what they THINK of me, it's how they treat me because of it. A man is not an island.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

Been to North Dakota much?...Finding an atheist/agnostic significant other is an almost monumental task.

Can't you move somewhere else?

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

…and it has been when I have played the role of the theist that I have seen unbounded social success that I can assure you would have proven quite the challenge as a known atheist.

Rest assured that in time your 'unbound social success' will be as meaningless as the empty promises of a bourgeois exsitence.

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

Again, I point to the fact that our interconnectedness requires a certain conformity to achieve great success.

Errr, I think some of the most 'successful people' in the world would strongly disagree with you.

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

Those that stray from it invariably face unique challenges above and beyond the typical struggles in life.

Which, a lot of times, has been the core motivational factor in some people's success.

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

It is therefore my contention that a balance must be struck between your identity and how others identify with you - find balance for integrity, and find balance for economic and social success.

I don't know about that, but I can tell you one thing, – people who don't accept me for who I am aren't worth my time. That's just the way it is.

[chris v]

There's two kinds of people in this world:

Optimists and Realists.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Can't you move somewhere else?

I already told him to. He did not reply.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Can't you move somewhere else?

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

I already told him to. He did not reply.

I don't think that is the answer. If he has this problem where he lives now, he will have a similar problem wherever he goes, because it's HIS problem.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by smacintush

I don't think that is the answer. If he has this problem where he lives now, he will have a similar problem wherever he goes, because it's HIS problem.

Not necessarily. Different environments have immense impacts on a person's well being. A move, a fresh start is the best thing you can do. Especially if your body is physically impacted by your surrounding like with allergies. Do not discount what a sea change a change of climate can be.

[miss-haley]

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

miss-haley,

Well, that philosophy may work, except that increasingly we are interconnected, and the marketing of ourselves becomes increasingly important. Essentially, living a lie can make one more reputable and profitable.

I happen to be an atheist, a fact that will be held against me assuredly for the remainder of my days. I know that it would be better socially and thusly likely economically if I were to be a man of faith.

So which wins? Being true to oneself, or assuring a life of acceptance?

Thats a good question and the way i rekon it (and sometines i'm not that articulate so i prolly put it in such a way that it really made no sense); in order to assure a life of acceptance you have to accept yourself dig?

edit* i spose the other side of my answer to your question is: i surround myself with the people i need to learn from at the time - if the people around can't see below the direction of faith, school i went to, labels i wear then a maybe its a question of accepting them exactly as they are or maybe it's a question of evaluating if that inauthenticity is really healthy for me?

for me; eliminating that which was most negative in my life meant destroying the little voice inside my head that told me i wasn't good enough, tall enough, smart enough, pretty enough, quiet enough... you know... the one who questions what you wear in the morning and says... "oh my god that sounded soooo dumb - everyone will think you are such a loser"??? i obliquely discoverd that a function of that backchat was to ensure nobdy thought i was a dick or noticed my foibles but at the cost of me actually living a life i enjoyed, being a person i unconditionally love, and saying things that i needed to say, so.....

what anybody else thinks of me is none of my business.

but please don't mistake that for an emphasis on callousness or a lack of empathy - if anything it allows me to do the thing that most people can't because of a paralysing fear of feeling stupid; help someone else because i can... and because the are asking.

anyhoo... it works for me and it's just a small bit of the whole

[miss-haley]

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

Well, that's where I must call bullocks. It is one of the easiest things in the world to put on a facade and dance around to the contentment of others. It isn't a difficult thing to be "perfect." Total mastery of one's image, mannerisms, and speech is anything but impossible, and it has been when I have played the role of the theist that I have seen unbounded social success that I can assure you would have proven quite the challenge as a known atheist.

this whole fake it until you make it thingie must be tiring; the thing that pops into my head is - you tell yourself a lie for long enough and it becomes the truth... how long do you have to live that lie for the benefit of others before you get the niggling sense that there must be more to life than posturing?

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

Again, I point to the fact that our interconnectedness requires a certain conformity to achieve great success.

are you talking about interconnectedness as in "it's not what you know but who you know" in order to match the jones down the road coz they "made it" ....
or are you talking about discovering a spark of the divine that truely represents interconnectedness; coz they are two totally different things.
one requires an ability to put up a facade and "hold it together" and one requires you to question what gives you joy and makes you feel connected?


ps
Great thread!!!

[KeriVit]

If I'm nice, it's genuine. If I'm not, it's genuine. But too many people are not- genuine.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Not necessarily. Different environments have immense impacts on a person's well being. A move, a fresh start is the best thing you can do. Especially if your body is physically impacted by your surrounding like with allergies. Do not discount what a sea change a change of climate can be.

Well, I guess I agree about the allergy thing anyway.

[Kerrigan]

There are lots of depressed, negative people on MacNN.

In reality though, people are generally quite friendly (so long as you hang around the right sort).

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by KeriVit

If I'm nice, it's genuine. If I'm not, it's genuine. But too many people are not- genuine.

One of my pet peeves is people who are nice all the time. There are days we are tired, days we are bummed out, aggravated, etc. If I like you I'll sympathize. You need not put on a front for me.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

There are lots of depressed, negative people on MacNN.

In general that is the type of people the internet appeals to more.

[Peder Rice]

Ah, it's nice to see I'm still quite the spectacle. That's the last time I use an anecdote.

But, to answer the question, kronos and erik, moving is not presently an option as obligations hold me to North Dakota. I might consider a move should I not be able to find a suitable set of allergy medications (but I've already tried the entire slew, so I won't hold my breath on that).

Anything else I can't comment on now, for I need to grab a bite to eat and then go to work for a while. But I willn't allow myself to be vilified! The maligned comments toward me perhaps indicate an opinion against me of youth, inexperience, too great a desire to please others, and possibly even depressed; however, I assure you that I am not a smiling clown of false pretenses. Au contraire, I am incredibly balanced. Again, I wish to bring attention to what was a rhetorical question: at one point does one draw the line between sociopathic individualism, with a vanguard approach to the opinions of others, and a pleasing twerp, whose only ambition is to be perfectly agreeable to all at all times?

[Strupat]

I heard somewhere that if the times are good, people will think and talk about bad things. In obvious contrast, if the times are bad, people will think and talk about good things.

So I guess we're living in good times! Hooray!

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Strupat

I heard somewhere that if the times are good, people will think and talk about bad things. In obvious contrast, if the times are bad, people will think and talk about good things.

So I guess we're living in good times! Hooray!

I heard somewhere that when you have an immensely oversized sig that the moderators will come to your house and beat you with belt buckles and broken broom handles…

[miss-haley]

Originally Posted by Peder Rice

Again, I wish to bring attention to what was a rhetorical question: at one point does one draw the line between sociopathic individualism, with a vanguard approach to the opinions of others, and a pleasing twerp, whose only ambition is to be perfectly agreeable to all at all times?

honey as long as you're happy!

to quote the immortal Digital Underground:
Now as the record spins around, you recognize this sound,
Well, it's the underground,
You know that we're down with wutchyalike
Yeah, with wutchyalike, yeah
And though we're usually on the serious tip, check it out:
Tonight we're gonna flip and trip and let it all hang out tonight,
We're gonna say what we like.
'Cause, yo, yo, we wanna know how many people in the flow,
Would like to just let yourselves go
And doowutchyalike,
Yeah, well tonight's your night.
Just eat food, try not to be crude or rude,
Kill the attitude, chill the serious mood,
And doowutchyalike,
Yeah, and doowutchyalike,
Everybody doowutchyalike


[/rant]

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Strupat

I heard somewhere that if the times are good, people will think and talk about bad things. In obvious contrast, if the times are bad, people will think and talk about good things.

So I guess we're living in good times! Hooray!

Strupat—your sig is waaaaaay too big! :o

[- - e r i k - -]

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

There are lots of depressed, negative people on MacNN.

I'm not so sure that this is the case. But if it is, it's only because NN generally has a higher average IQ and awareness of current events than other places - and thus the opposite of "ignorance is bliss" comes into play.

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm not so sure that this is the case. But if it is, it's only because NN generally has a higher average IQ and awareness of current events than other places - and thus the opposite of "ignorance is bliss" comes into play.

I'm pessimistic when it comes to the general state of things, but take an optimistic view of individual destiny; in other words, I think the planet is doomed, but the individual is always able to "ameliorate their condition".

However, this "optimism is inversely proportional to intelligence" argument is rubbish. There've been a number of highly intelligent optimists. As a philosphical position (for example) optimism is represented most notably by Gottfried Leibniz. You know, that guy who invented calculus independently of Newton.

Philosophers often link the concept of optimism with the name of Gottfried Leibniz, who held that we live in the "best of all possible worlds."

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

However, this "optimism is inversely proportional to intelligence" argument is rubbish. There've been a number of highly intelligent optimists. As a philosphical position (for example) optimism is represented most notably by Gottfried Leibniz. You know, that guy who invented calculus independently of Newton.

Eh, Voltaire owned him in Candide.

[Ulrich Kinbote]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Eh, Voltaire owned him in Candide.

Oh my God! You're right! Someone rejected his point of view, so it must be wrong for all time.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm not so sure that this is the case. But if it is, it's only because NN generally has a higher average IQ and awareness of current events than other places - and thus the opposite of "ignorance is bliss" comes into play.

Christ, I agree.

[driven]

People aren't just negative any more, they border on being violent.

I had a guy who was getting on an interstate in California. I tried to speed up to get out of his way (I couldn't change lanes) but it turned out that instead I ended up getting IN his way ... so I made a hard movement to get out of his way again. I could have just sat there in his way and made him slam his brakes on but I made an effort to move.

So what happened? He pulls up next to me, flips me the bird and then swerves into my lane bouncing off the side of my rental car.

Another incident: I'm getting on the tube in London. I accidently bump into some woman. I kindly say "Excuse me .. " to which she replied "f__k off".

I really don't like to leave my house any more.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

Oh my God! You're right! Someone demonstrated that his point of view had no relation to reality, so it must be wrong for all time.

I agree with this clarified version of your post. Leibniz was certainly no moron, but a lot of his thinking that led to the "best of all possible worlds" idea seems to be more wishful fantasy than logic.