[scaught]

Originally posted by putamare:
Steve Albini of Big Black! Now that was a band with cohones. Made Ministry & 9" look like the poser wimps they are.

im a steelworker. i kill what i eat.

[Earth Mk. II]

Originally posted by Phranken9:
Going to the shows are the best way to support the band/scene that you are interested in. There you can usually buy all their cd's from them after the show at discounted prices as well as buy sweaters, shirts, patches, posters etc.

Earth Mk II: Just curious, what album did you buy from Burning Heart?

Agreed, I didn't get to as many shows as I wanted to last year, but schedule and cash permitting, I'll be going to more this year.

BTW, Phranken9 - I bought a T(I)NC album and the 'Hang the VJ' DVD from Burning Heart in that example, but I've also bought a Refused album from them and I'm thinking of getting a Monster CD and snagging the new 'Division of Laura Lee' disc before it's available in the States.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:


Why don't you try thinking for once, instead of posting useless, insulting messages about things you know nothing about?

Ys that is all I post is useless, insulting messages.

It was a joke, son, a joke.

[talisker]

Originally posted by Zimphire:


Ys that is all I post is useless, insulting messages.

It was a joke, son, a joke.

Well he calls himself a terrible child so what do you expect?

[Tigerabbit]

Originally posted by Thrax:
And they may just be easier on you if you agree to delete all the stolen music from your computer and destroy all CD-Rs with stolen music on them.

It's only a red herring because you think IP should be free and physical goods shouldn't. Stealing is stealing.

Once again, you really should read before posting.

Under current Oklahoma law, what you are calling "intellectual property theft" is not theft until a demonstratable loss of revenue occurs. Your opinion is irrelevant in this matter.

One of the original Napster seizures: http://news.com.com/2100-1023-245770.html?tag=rn

He's still trying to get his equipment returned, even though all charges where dismissed because the seizure was based on a theft allegation, not a copyright violation. Now, if you ask me, THAT IS THEFT.

Additionally, are you implying that I have stolen music on my computer and on CD-Rs? If so, then you are committing slander, and that is grounds for litigation in both your jurisdiction and mine. Personally, I'm not interested in it, but there are others around here and in other fora that wouldn't mind making things financially painful for you for a significant chunk of your adult life. They won't care if you're under 18, they'll just go after your parents instead.

As a librarian, I deal with more intellectual property in one day than you've ever seen in your entire life. I have firmly established guidelines that I use on a daily basis in dealing with intellectual property. I have never stated that said property is free, despite your ignorant claims to the contrary, and I challenge you to find anyplace in this forum or any other where I have stated that intellectual property is free.

One more thing, IP is Internet Protocol, except to MPAA/RIAA apologists. No one in any true intellectual property field calls it "IP"; it's their PR people and those who know no better who make that mistake.

[edit: last paragraph corrected four posts down]

[zigzag]

Some clarifications:

Theft is, generally speaking, the taking of property without the owner's consent. Used in this broad sense, it is appropriate IMO to refer to the unauthorized copying and distribution of intellectual property as "theft".

Theft is also the term used in most states to describe a specific criminal offense. Each state has its own definition. Therefore, it is possible that, as tigerabbit says, file-swapping would not be considered a criminal theft offense under Oklahoma law.

However, this doesn't mean that the broader meaning of the term "theft" isn't applicable. Also, to reiterate an earlier point, criminal theft is not limited to tangible property - one can be criminally prosecuted for theft of services, for example, although that probably isn't applicable in this particular case (if you hacked into a music subscription service, then it would be applicable).

Then there is the federal Copyright Act, which provides for civil remedies, but not criminal sanctions. If a record company discovers a copyright infringement, the Copyright Act authorizes it to sue the infringer for money damages.

As the linked article points out, this doesn't do them much good if the infringer is a college kid with no money. So, they are now trying to bring criminal prosecutions under the federal NET Act, which provides for criminal sanctions where the theft of copyrighted material is more than $1,000 in value.

As stated in the article, "The DOJ already has used the NET Act to imprison noncommercial software pirates, which software lobbyists hailed as "an important component of the overall effort to prevent software theft".

I hope this clarifies things.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Tigerabbit:
One more thing, IP is Internet Protocol, except to MPAA/RIAA apologists. No one in any true intellectual property field calls it "IP"; it's their PR people and those who know no better who make that mistake.

Not to try to gang up on Tigerabbit too much, but how an abbreviation is used depends on the industry. I think you are being a bit unfair to jump down anybody's throat if they use IP in a legal discussion. I assume that you are not a law librarian. If you were, you would know that intellectual property is commonly abbreviated in the legal profession to IP. I have no doubt that in the computer industry the same letters IP would be understood to mean internet protocol.

It is not at all uncommon for abbreviations to mean different things in different industries. For example, if you were a chef, the CIA would mean to you primarily the Culinary Institute of America . Of course, if you were a spook, CIA refers to a slightly different organization. One is not right and the other wrong. It's just a matter of which industry you are talking about. And since the context in this thread is all about the legal issues, it seems to me that the use of the commonly-understood legal abbreviation IP for intellectual property is entirely appropriate. You really owe Thrax an apology.

Speaking of wrongly jumping down people's throats. I've been waiting for a week for you to correct yourself after you jumped down my throat when I hinted (I thought pretty politely) that you should look outside the 10th Amendment for the supremacy clause. Since you won't make the correction yourself, I'm going to spell it out like a smartass. The supremacy clause is in Article VI. It's easy to spot because it uses the word "supreme." Hence the name "supremacy clause."

[chris v]

Here's another pretty good take on the whole thing from slate. The article aptly compares the dip in sales in the late 70's that the record industry tried to blame on home taping, but which was rightfully attributed to Disco. The article points out how MTV pulled the industry's @ss out of a sling for most of the 1980's. Filesharing is not why the majors are experiencing a decline in market share.

http://slate.msn.com/?id=2069732

CV

[Tigerabbit]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
�I've been waiting for a week for you to correct yourself after you jumped down my throat when I hinted (I thought pretty politely) that you should look outside the 10th Amendment for the supremacy clause�

Simey, I'm sorry, I thought I made that correction and apologized already. You are right on that. (Tigerabbit admitting she's wrong?!?! You'd better print and frame this. No one in my real life would believe it.)

I just called a colleague and former classmate at the OU Law Library and asked him what came to mind from the intitals I P. He said, "From you and several others, I first think Internet Protocol. From most of my patrons, it's Intellectual Property." You are right on that front too.

I'll will apologize when I am shown to be talking out my ass. I will not apologize to someone who calls me a thief.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Tigerabbit:


Simey, I'm sorry, I thought I made that correction and apologized already. You are right on that. (Tigerabbit admitting she's wrong?!?! You'd better print and frame this. No one in my real life would believe it.)

I just called a colleague and former classmate at the OU Law Library and asked him what came to mind from the intitals I P. He said, "From you and several others, I first think Internet Protocol. From most of my patrons, it's Intellectual Property." You are right on that front too.

I'll will apologize when I am shown to be talking out my ass. I will not apologize to someone who calls me a thief.

Thank you!



We need a "shakes hands" smilie for these boards.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by Tigerabbit:
I'll will apologize when I am shown to be talking out my ass. I will not apologize to someone who calls me a thief.

You're certainly entitled to argue that you've done nothing unethical or illegal and that you're not a thief under the letter of Oklahoma law, but I think it's reasonable for others to characterize unauthorized copying and distribution as theft in the general sense of the term. Under the NET Act, it might even be theft in the strict legal sense.

At the same time, as you have suggested, it would be useful for people to get in the habit of using the term infringement to describe violations of the Copyright Act that do not rise to the level of a criminal offense.

[schep]

It's not like any one looses money when I download music because i am so broke i wouldn't ever buy the cd