[besson3c]

I really like this letter:

An open letter to conservatives | AmericanDad's Blog

Really well put together set of arguments!

[Lint Police]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I really like this letter:

An open letter to conservatives | AmericanDad's Blog

Really well put together set of arguments!

Yet again, you and others mistake whom true conservatives are. Progressives have destroyed both parties. There are morons in each party that have had control in recent years that have run this country in the ground. More so the left than the right, but sometimes it is hard to tell whom is who.

All along, true conservatives have held the same line. Control debt, protect life and smaller government. The phonies are now being outed for what they really are.

[besson3c]

Is that kind of along the same lines as the real and fake America argument?

Fake conservatives or not, Fake liberals or not, do you agree with these arguments that pertain to those with Rs prefixing their name?

[CreepDogg]

Originally Posted by Lint Police 

Yet again, you and others mistake whom true conservatives are. Progressives have destroyed both parties. There are morons in each party that have had control in recent years that have run this country in the ground. More so the left than the right, but sometimes it is hard to tell whom is who.

All along, true conservatives have held the same line. Control debt, protect life and smaller government. The phonies are now being outed for what they really are.

I think it's pretty comical that often when Republicans/Conservatives/anti-Liberals/whatever are called out, there's a response along the lines of 'Oh, that's just the lunatic fringe. The true conservatives don't really think that way.' Who are these mythical people, and where have they been hiding? If their message is so true and so sound, why is it not being heard broadly? Why are these people not effective at denouncing all the wingnut BS and emphasizing the core message?

Also - actually, I think the point of this letter is addressing these very people. If there are true conservatives out there, come to the table! We want a lot of the same things - the best possible competitive landscape for business, the most efficient health care system, a strong financial system, and a solid foundation on which to build America's future. We're going to disagree at times on how to get there. I'm willing to concede that neither of us has the perfect solutions. Are you?

[lexapro]

Excellent letter. That guy deserves a medal.

[ort888]

I wrote a closed letter to conservatives... no one is allowed to read it.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ort888 

I wrote a closed letter to conservatives... no one is allowed to read it.

Can you at least post some of your drawings?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by CreepDogg 

I think it's pretty comical that often when Republicans/Conservatives/anti-Liberals/whatever are called out, there's a response along the lines of 'Oh, that's just the lunatic fringe. The true conservatives don't really think that way.' Who are these mythical people, and where have they been hiding? If their message is so true and so sound, why is it not being heard broadly? Why are these people not effective at denouncing all the wingnut BS and emphasizing the core message?

Well put.

I remember back in the Carter days how people would proclaim that it was finally time for a Republican to clean house and reduce the debt. Enter Reagan. Taxes raised, huge debt. Exit Reagan. So folks, what was that? Oh well, ya know, he wasn't a true conservative, he was a FCINO. Hmm, ok. Enter GHWB. Record Debt. Exit GHWB. Umm, ok, now what was that? Well, you see, he wasn't a fiscally responsible conservative. Hmm, ok. Enter Clinton. Debt gone. Exit Clinton. So folks, was that now a true conservative? No way! He totally screwed us. It was the economy and the two former Republican presidents that got rid of the debt. OK, fine. Enter GWB. Astronomical debt. Exit GWB. OK, people but now that was a conservative wasn't it? Not really. He betrayed conservative fiscal policy. He wasn't a true conservative. We never liked him. Yeah, riiight.

So what's the deal? In the past 30 years, has the Republican party actually never managed to campaign with a Republican president? Or have the conservatives been secretly thrown out of the GOP? I'm still waiting for that truly conservative fiscally responsible president that's gonna fix everything, reduce the debt to zero, abolish taxes, get rid of all the illegal immigrants, etc. We've been told so much about this political superhero. But where the heck is this guy?

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Well put.

I remember back in the Carter days how people would proclaim that it was finally time for a Republican to clean house and reduce the debt. Enter Reagan. Taxes raised, huge debt. Exit Reagan. So folks, what was that?

Reagan in what allowed us to finally get to a balanced budget in the 90's (that and forcing Clinton's hand) with the "peace dividend.". Conservatives aren't against any debt spending. If it's a short-term investment to achieve one of the other goals which fall under the Constitutional mandate of the government, then that's not unreasonable. For instance, you won't find many conservatives who would argue against doing whatever we had to do financially, post 9/11, to ensure security.

What's isn't reasonable is permanently adding to our debt things which our founding fathers intended to be our personal responsibility, at a time we really can not afford what we are doing now. There's really no "emergency" which requires the type of spending Obama has been doing and no one can really argue that it's to achieve some kind of short term goal.

Oh well, ya know, he wasn't a true conservative, he was a FCINO. Hmm, ok. Enter GHWB. Record Debt. Exit GHWB. Umm, ok, now what was that?

See above.

Well, you see, he wasn't a fiscally responsible conservative. Hmm, ok. Enter Clinton. Debt gone.

Clinton went kicking and screaming into a balanced budget, and it didn't happen until after 1994 when he had little choice because voters had put people in office who promised to run things conservatively. You are helping to prove Lint Police's point, I'm afraid.

[The Final Dakar]

Fiscal conservatives do exist. They live in congress, but only come out when a Democrat is president. At least that what Simons's summary of the past 15 years taught me.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Well put.

I remember back in the Carter days how people would proclaim that it was finally time for a Republican to clean house and reduce the debt. Enter Reagan. Taxes raised, huge debt. Exit Reagan. So folks, what was that? Oh well, ya know, he wasn't a true conservative, he was a FCINO. Hmm, ok. Enter GHWB. Record Debt. Exit GHWB. Umm, ok, now what was that? Well, you see, he wasn't a fiscally responsible conservative. Hmm, ok. Enter Clinton. Debt gone. Exit Clinton. So folks, was that now a true conservative? No way! He totally screwed us. It was the economy and the two former Republican presidents that got rid of the debt. OK, fine. Enter GWB. Astronomical debt. Exit GWB. OK, people but now that was a conservative wasn't it? Not really. He betrayed conservative fiscal policy. He wasn't a true conservative. We never liked him. Yeah, riiight.

So what's the deal? In the past 30 years, has the Republican party actually never managed to campaign with a Republican president? Or have the conservatives been secretly thrown out of the GOP? I'm still waiting for that truly conservative fiscally responsible president that's gonna fix everything, reduce the debt to zero, abolish taxes, get rid of all the illegal immigrants, etc. We've been told so much about this political superhero. But where the heck is this guy?

Guy? Maybe it is Sarah Palin....

[OAW]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I really like this letter:

An open letter to conservatives | AmericanDad's Blog

Really well put together set of arguments!

An absolutely awesome letter. An instant classic! Exhaustive and impeccably referenced. I love how he ended it with ....

And in anticipation of the initial responses ... NO, this level of wingnuttery does not exist on the American Left.

Now I'm just paraphrasing what I read yesterday. Tried to list the exact quote but I can't get to the letter again since the page is presently overloaded with what they describe as "unprecedented traffic". In any event, it's a brutally effective and undeniable summary of the arguments that many of us have been making around here for a long time. I have no expectation that any of the specific points the author made will be challenged directly in this thread. Doing so would simply strain credulity.

OAW

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by OAW 

An absolutely awesome letter. An instant classic! Exhaustive and impeccably referenced. I love how he ended it with ....





Now I'm just paraphrasing what I read yesterday. Tried to list the exact quote but I can't get to the letter again since the page is presently overloaded with what they describe as "unprecedented traffic". In any event, it's a brutally effective and undeniable summary of the arguments that many of us have been making around here for a long time. I have no expectation that any of the specific points the author made will be challenged directly in this thread. Doing so would simply strain credulity.

OAW

On Facebook some guy connected to some person I know managed to discredit the entire thing by pointing out the fact that some ThinkProgress sites were used as reference. Talk about throwing out the baby with the bathwater!

[ort888]

Originally Posted by Simon 

So what's the deal? In the past 30 years, has the Republican party actually never managed to campaign with a Republican president? Or have the conservatives been secretly thrown out of the GOP? I'm still waiting for that truly conservative fiscally responsible president that's gonna fix everything, reduce the debt to zero, abolish taxes, get rid of all the illegal immigrants, etc. We've been told so much about this political superhero. But where the heck is this guy?

They try. Lord how they try. But the scheming Democrats keep stopping them at every turn.

[besson3c]

[Simon]

^^^ hot

[Simon]

Originally Posted by ort888 

They try. Lord how they try. But the scheming Democrats keep stopping them at every turn.

I was waiting for somebody to blame it on the Democrats.

[turtle777]

Democrats are able to write letters ?

-t

[Simon]

Hey turtle! Back at last. I was missing you here.

[The Final Dakar]

I can feel the level of political discourse jumping up a notch.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Hey turtle! Back at last. I was missing you here.

Yeah, in between 12 hours work days and 5 hour business dinners, I needed to drop some wisdom in the PWL

-t

[Simon]

Yeah, indeed I've been longing for that impartial analysis of yours.

[besson3c]

T-10 seconds until a Turtle rant about how the government can't even tie their own shoelaces?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I can feel the level of political discourse jumping up a notch.

Well I think that any social aspects of the forum are a waste, and we should remove them leaving only the technical sections.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

T-10 seconds until a Turtle rant about how the government can't even tie their own shoelaces?

That's ok as long as you teach Obama how to take a dumb on the kitchen floor.

-t

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

That's ok as long as you teach Obama how to take a dumb on the kitchen floor.

-t

Is MacNN censoring you too?

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Is MacNN censoring you too?

No, only Democrats.

-t

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I really like this letter:

An open letter to conservatives | AmericanDad's Blog

Really well put together set of arguments!

Too long, too petty. He's basically saying that he dumped the conservatives because of guilt-by-association and because the group includes other people who happen to be hypocrites, not because he disagrees with their core values. If he's trying to say that he also disagrees with their core values, then drowning this claim amongst all the other petty bickering is exactly what he accuses the conservatives of doing, IOW he would fit right in with them. The cliffs notes version would be far more effective.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Too long, too petty. He's basically saying that he dumped the conservatives because of guilt-by-association and because the group includes other people who happen to be hypocrites, not because he disagrees with their core values. If he's trying to say that he also disagrees with their core values, then drowning this claim amongst all the other petty bickering is exactly what he accuses the conservatives of doing, IOW he would fit right in with them. The cliffs notes version would be far more effective.

The problem, while the party lacks strong leadership many people are construing the voices of these hypocrites as the voices of the party, which ill-represents conservative ideology as a whole.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Is MacNN censoring you too?

Originally Posted by turtle777 

No, only Democrats.

There's that liberal media bias again.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I really like this letter:

An open letter to conservatives | AmericanDad's Blog

Really well put together set of arguments!

tl;dr

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

No, only Democrats.

-t

If the Democrats were censoring you they would have had you say something about loving socialism and killing babies or something rather than using the word "dumb" and Obama in the same sentence.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Is MacNN censoring you too?

Originally Posted by turtle777 

No, [Macnn is only censoring you, Besson, i.e.)] only Democrats.

Emphasis added.

Originally Posted by Simon 

There's that liberal media bias again.

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If the Democrats were censoring you they would have had you say something about loving socialism and killing babies or something rather than using the word "dumb" and Obama in the same sentence.

Oh geez, both of you completely missed the joke.

I was saying that MacNN is censoring the Democrats, because Besson can't say the word poop.

-t

[besson3c]

AHAHHAHAHAHAHHA!!!

KILLER joke!

[turtle777]

Sorry it went over head

-t

[Simon]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Oh geez, both of you completely missed the joke.

Nope, I sure got your joke of the century. Hence I was amused that for once the "liberal media bias" had gone in the wrong direction. Congrats on the joke though. Grade A stuff. Almost as good this one.

[ebuddy]

Lost most of America? Apparently Russell is not familiar with the voting bloc that identifies as centre-right and comprises the lion’s share of disappointment not only with our new President, but a peculiar distaste for an overwhelmingly Democratic majority in Congress; Independents. In fact the left has continued to elude most of this country. I knew this “letter” was disingenuous and problematic out of the gate so...

An open response to an open letter to Russell, but to Liberals more specifically and with a little more brevity for the mercy of open-minded readers:

Dearest Russell King, I’m glad you’ve mastered the art of embedded links, but there appears to be a problem with your web browser. I’d recommend unchecking the “Visit leftist blogs only” option. Either that or you may have selected ThinkProgress.com as your Home page.

Your entire letter leaves absolutely no room for honest discourse, but I’m sure folks authoring hard-hitting news that “challenges the right-wing noise machine” at the LiberalOC.com appreciate your readership.

Couple of points quick…

• The indictment of Socialism is certainly as legitimate a critique of ideology as “wing-nut”.
• The complaints of “Deem and pass” were not that they’ve not been used, but that they were never used on any legislation this profound, but of course you already know that. I challenge you to consider the cries against “Reconciliation” when Republicans were attempting it, now championed by the hypocritical left.
• The complaints about Gitmo are intended to show an Administration that is conflicted between pipe dreams and reality. The same goes for Socialized medicine, pay-as-you-go, and immigration reform. BTW, there are differing ideals of “Immigration reform”. You’d do well to avail yourself of a more well-rounded approach to daily news.
• Really? Complaints of government spending while their own families may have collected $250,000 in government hand-outs? This flies in the face of the importance of paying taxes while your ideological heavyweights can’t seem to recall how much they’re making, who they’re paying, when, where, and have certainly done a masterful job of jipping the government of their tax revenue.
• Teleprompters of course are an easy target for a man hailed as a brilliant public speaker. When the President thanks himself for attending an event, it has as much comedic value as a President pulling on a locked door. Lighten up.
• Bowing to a foreign dignitary is one thing, doing so while apologizing for US atrocities against mankind is another. Again, see ‘Preferences’ in your browser toolbar. This goes for anyone that has the "Bush held hands with __________" box checked as well.
• The difference between the Shoe Bomber and the panty-bomber of course is the political climate we’re in right now. You might not have seen this on Salon.com, but there is a concerted effort to try Gitmo terrorists in the US judicial system.
• Complaints of the “length of the healthcare bill” and a complaint of Obama’s 11-page outline are in fact two different things. Why? The large print giveth, the small print taketh away. You’re not really doing your ilk in the Wonk Room a lot of intellectual justice with this.

In your open letter to conservatives you cite examples of hypocrisy, hyperbole, history, and hatred as if these traits of human nature are somehow exclusively or even peculiarly those of conservatives. You do this while citing one Republican’s view with another, juxtaposing their statements or actions to illustrate a conflict in what I can only describe as a shameless attempt to excuse the crime scene of Democrats feeding on their young the past 14 months. Who knows, with a little introspect you might find there is no monopoly on truth or tolerance.

If nothing else, I’m sure we could agree that you’d not be interested in a 200-point hit piece compiled from the rants of Rush Limbaugh, Michelle Malkin, Glenn Beck, Fox News, and the National Review. I mean, not any more than you'd expect an open-minded person to be in the rants of thinkprogress, crooksandliars, media matters, salon.com, Rachel Maddow, the liberal-oc, etc. In short...

From: Conservatives
To: Russell

No thanks.

[Dork.]

I thought you were actually joking when you referenced "The Liberal OC", only to find the site exists! You learn something new everyday.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by ebuddy 

...but a peculiar distaste for an overwhelmingly Democratic majority in Congress...

Elected by a majority of the people.

[stupendousman]

Originally Posted by Simon 

Elected by a majority of the people.

...possibly not for long.

[Simon]

Originally Posted by stupendousman 

...possibly not for long.

But for now.