Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

LeeG · Aug 29, 2002, 08:18 PM

Well despite all the .mac moaning, the value of the service is a separate debate, I wanted to discuss Backup. I actually find this a nice little piece of software, and quite useful. Its incredibly easy to find files to backup, and drag them to your window. I generally pick all files I have been recently working on, then they are automatically backed up nightly, while I sleep - quite nice, and comforting knowing another copy is out there on the web, "safe"

But, then I was thinking, how can we make it even better - REALLY useful so you always have vital stuff backed up - without having to think about it, or burn a CD/DVD? Then I thought about combining the idea of smartplaylists - to smartbackup -

Would it be possible to include in a future revision the option for backup to notify you, say once a month, that certain files have not been used in a set amount of time, and ask if you'd like to archive them to CD/DVD? Some kind of automated archiving of old files to free up disk space?

Just some random thoughts, and YES I have submitted to apple...
Lee

BZ · Aug 29, 2002, 08:34 PM

Ok....

Here are some things that I would like to see in Backup.

- Encryption
- Compression
- Disk to disk backup
- Versioning
- FTP support for other servers

That is all.

BZ

kcmac · Aug 29, 2002, 11:32 PM

Good ideas. Until it lets me back up to an external disk/drive, I see no use for it.

Drizzt · Aug 29, 2002, 11:58 PM

What I don't like of Backup is that you need the GUI to be openned for it to work.. unless that has been fixed since 1.0?

I prefer my way.. a shell script that runs @ 3h00AM and dumps all my home directory on a NFS share..

Than the Share server compress all this plus other stuff and sends the tarball on an other machine. Weekly I burn these tarballs.

Works perfectly, and I have 4 up-to-date copies of every home directories in use

CarpetFluff · 10:49 AM

I can't think of any way to make this 'rock' unless of course they make it an application that everyone can use without a .mac subscription. If it's main purpose is to back up to iDisk then it will always be flawed, as it seems to me that backing up to a slow non-secure 100mb disk is the least useful of any back-up system that the application could handle.

I don't really see it as an extension of my .mac account at all, it feels to me like 'rentalware' it's useful for other systems of back-up which are much more effective than the iDisk, but you have to have an iDisk to use it and when you unsubscribe you lose 'all' of the functionality.

If I owned it outright then it would be worth suggesting ideas to make it better, it should be an application in it's own right which has the option of accessing Apple's iDisk feature.

Jasoco · Aug 30, 2002, 05:38 PM

I want ot be able to download it and use it without .mac.

I don't want to backup to a server, I want to backup to my LaCie FireWire HD. If Apple could make it so you can use Backup to do that, it'd rock.

For now I just use SilverKeeper.

gautch · Jun 18, 2004, 01:45 PM

Thanks you Jasoco. i just got SilverKeeper! Works like a charm.

Randman · Jun 18, 2004, 02:10 PM

You can backup to other media. I use Backup and copy stuff to my external hard drive. And I've used it to backup my documents and photos folders to my iPod. You can also use it to backup to a CD.

melman101 · Jun 18, 2004, 05:08 PM

I was just looking at SilverKeeper. Looks awesome. What's the difference between that, and lets say Dantz Retrospect? Also, why couldn't you just drag your user folder over to a firewire drive for backup? thanks

Mel

clf8 · Jun 18, 2004, 06:41 PM

Don't use it. Since OS X uses all sorts of hidden (.whatever) files, Backup makes it a point not to back those up. Which is a pain, since Backup never gets my .tcshrc, .vimrc, .ssh/, and several other Unix configuration files that are in my home dir. Sure, I could zip all these up, but it would be hella lot easier if I could simply manually add these to Backup. Be glad for someone to tell me how, I can't find a way.

bashar · Jun 18, 2004, 08:17 PM

Apple did not fix the worst problem with backup, it does not work if you are behind a proxy, it is basically useless for me, it can not even authenticate my .mac membership. while anything else works?!

OzarkMtn · Jun 18, 2004, 08:49 PM

WOW!, this is a really ROCK'IN thread!

IMHO, .mac is a total waste of money and there are many alternatives in backing up your files or whatever you need to store. SilverLining is a good start, I prefer Dantz Retrospect. Apple will not provide any more enhancements to BackUp except to keep it compatible with the OS.

Gunner1954 · Jun 18, 2004, 10:07 PM

Originally posted by kcmac:
Good ideas. Until it lets me back up to an external disk/drive, I see no use for it.

Backup 2 does allow backup to external disk, including iPod and a mounted disk or share. It also allows different item selections for different backups; iDisk, drive or CDR/DVDR.

dcmacdaddy · Jun 19, 2004, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Jasoco:
I want ot be able to download it and use it without .mac.

I don't want to backup to a server, I want to backup to my LaCie FireWire HD. If Apple could make it so you can use Backup to do that, it'd rock.

For now I just use SilverKeeper.

That is my EXACT SAME gripe. I've got an exernal LaCie FireWire drive I use as a backup.
SilverKeeper is great for the weekly backup when I just dump my entire home directory to the drive.
But I would love the granularity of specific-file backups that you can get with the Backup utility for the daily, incremental updates I would like to do.

chris m. · Jun 19, 2004, 10:52 AM

I think Backup is great, combined with a .Mac account I can schedule daily backups and not even think about it.

My only major gripe is that backing up your Safari settings also backs up the Safari browser cache files. This is particularly annoying, as the cache files are something that 1) are completely unnecessary for backup, and 2) take up a lot of space, thus taking up a lot of time, and 3) are consistently changed, therefore you're constantly backing them up.

Randman · Jun 19, 2004, 01:04 PM

Use Safari Enhancer and permanently deactivate the cache. Speeds up the loading as well. And it doesn't hurt to run MacJanitor right before backups to clean any unnecessary stuff.

Freeflyer · Jun 19, 2004, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by Jasoco:
For now I just use SilverKeeper.

Thanks for the silverkeeper mention. I've just found and installed that and it's a great piece of software, particularly being free. I particularly like that it works with network mounts, so that I can schedule my powerbooks to backup over the network during the night to the firewire drive on my old g4 server. I'm still experimenting to see if the incremental backups work correctly, which would reduce the time dramatically.

My plan is to plug the powerbooks into the wired network, do a full backup of the home directory, then use the wireless network to nightly backup any incremental changes.

Once a week I might set a cron job on the server mac to make a tarball of the directory for additional storage. Doubt I could get it down to a dvd size, due to all the photos I have, but it's good start.

Thanks again.

J.

dck04 · Jun 20, 2004, 12:16 AM

I'm not sure, but I remember reading somewhere that Backup does not backup Applications, only documents. Recently, I needed to partition my PowerBook drive, and I didn't want to bother re-installing anything. Basically, I wanted a "carbon copy" of my entire drive. I wanted to backup my drive to an external Firewire drive, partition my PowerBook drive, and then copy the backup to one of the new partitions. I looked at a number of products, and I couldn't find anything satisfactory. That's when I stumbled upon a program called "Carbon Copy Cloner." For me, this was the perfect solution. It did exactly what it says it does. It made a "carbon copy." All of those little invisible files and folders--you know, the ones with names like "usr," "sbin," "var," "etc," "bin," "cores," etc...all that UNIX stuff that the system needs, but Apple hides by default in the OS X finder--all that stuff was preserved. Every single file, permissions preserved, whether visible or invisible, was copied. It was the simplest backup I've ever done. All I had to do was select the source and destination volumes (as well as some preferences, most of which were already set by default to what I needed), and then just click the "clone" button. When I had the new partition ready (I didn't even need to install the OS on the partition, I just needed to format it as HFS+), I just fired up Carbon Copy Cloner again, set the source to the drive that had been the destination for the original backup, and the destination to the new partition. Voila--35 GB of data perfectly preserved. I set the new partition as the start up disk, re-booted, and everything was exactly as I'd left it before reformatting the drive. There are many useful features in this product, including synchronization of the drives, scheduling of backups, creating a disk image from your drive, etc, all of which I just haven't had the need to explore, but will in the future. The best part of all about this program is the price: a $5 "donation."

You can find out more at:

http://www.bombich.com/software/ccc.html

dcranston007 · Jun 20, 2004, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Jasoco:
I want ot be able to download it and use it without .mac.

I don't want to backup to a server, I want to backup to my LaCie FireWire HD. If Apple could make it so you can use Backup to do that, it'd rock.

Ahh, but you should look again at Backup. It CAN backup to External Hard Disks, CDs, DVDs, AND the .mac server. Check it out:

http://www.mac.com/1/iTour/tour_backup.html

(Note: Trial Members can only back up to iDisk, according to the site.)

Jasoco · Jun 20, 2004, 01:12 AM

Well, I've switched back to CCC. I tried to use SilverKeeper the other day and it Kernel Paniced. First time. So I decided to use CCC again. Worked great. Plus it can back up into a DMG file.

I think I might stick with CCC now. I don't really need scheduling though. My FW HD is loud so I do not keep it on. Unless I can silence the fan, it will always be turned off when not needed.

TC · Jun 20, 2004, 02:42 AM

Originally posted by Drizzt:
What I don't like of Backup is that you need the GUI to be openned for it to work.. unless that has been fixed since 1.0?

I prefer my way.. a shell script that runs @ 3h00AM and dumps all my home directory on a NFS share..

Than the Share server compress all this plus other stuff and sends the tarball on an other machine. Weekly I burn these tarballs.

Works perfectly, and I have 4 up-to-date copies of every home directories in use

Any chance of posting how you do this in a bit more detail?
I'd like to have something similar myself but I'd be interested to know exactly how you've done it.

Good thread, I've been using CCC but because of the time I takes to do a full back up I often put it off. I know one day this will lead to disaster so any way to create small backups of recent changes would be great.

redwood · Jun 20, 2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by clf8:
Don't use it. Since OS X uses all sorts of hidden (.whatever) files, Backup makes it a point not to back those up. Which is a pain, since Backup never gets my .tcshrc, .vimrc, .ssh/, and several other Unix configuration files that are in my home dir. Sure, I could zip all these up, but it would be hella lot easier if I could simply manually add these to Backup. Be glad for someone to tell me how, I can't find a way.

The way I've overcome this is by creating symlinks to these directories and files. It's a real kludge of a way but it seems to work.

I created a directory called 'backup shortcuts" or something like that. Then I've created symlinks to /etc and .ssh/ and a variety of other places that can't be backed up easily from inside this directory. Then I add the backup shortcuts directory containing the symlinks to the backup list.

It's not the ideal solution but it works in an okay enough fashion for me. It has saved me on several occasions when FileVault wiped out half my files. But, let's faces it, backups suck nomatter what, it's just a point of finding the option that sucks the least.

Jasoco · Jun 20, 2004, 04:27 PM

Up until now I just backup the entire HD. Users, System, Library, everything. Even if I won't, and never will restore right from it. I prefer in the case of a failure, to reinstall the OS, update it via Cable and then copy all my Home stuff and Library stuff back over. Then I usually keep the backup intact for a week until I'm sure I didn't miss anything.

It's a lot to go through, but it's simple and easy and the way I like it.

At leastduring my "Manual Hacking" phase. I used to (Carefully and knowingly) go into ROOT and replace resources all the time. So I would want a total backup to restore the files the right way. These days I use ubercool automatic apps. Like CandyBar for icons and ShapeShifter for theming. I never have to hack again. So really, I may just start only backing up my Home and main Library. As well as applications. That usually covers everything. The System is the OS and I really have no use for keeping it when I'm just going to reinstall.

I also backup and totally reformat whenever a new OS comes out. I don't believe or trust straight upgrading. I prefer to start fresh. That's just me.

Toyin · Jun 20, 2004, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by Jasoco:
I want ot be able to download it and use it without .mac.

I don't want to backup to a server, I want to backup to my LaCie FireWire HD. If Apple could make it so you can use Backup to do that, it'd rock.

For now I just use SilverKeeper.

Wow thanks for the heads up. This app is free and it's awesome. I've been using Synchronize Plus for the last 2 years. While it may be a bit faster than Silverkeeper, I find Silverkeeper easier to use and it's works well with my Application folder (Synchronize Plus always failed to ignore certain apps for me.) Thanks

OptG · 11:57 PM

For all the geeks out there, you might want to try using these techniques: http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/ma...10/backup.html. Enjoy leveraging the wealth of tools already embedded into OS X.