[yugyug]

I'm moving to Japan later in the year to live for 6 months or so, thought it would be good time to get a new powerbook as I'm pretty sure they'd be cheaper there than here (I'm in australia).

Doesn't anyone know of any issues I should be aware of in regards to buying and in regards to using it back home later (other than the obvious one of voltage difference). Any help is much appreciated, cheers

[phantomo]

One important note, the Japanese PowerBook might have different keyboard layout to cater the Japanese market. (I remember I saw the different keyboard layout when I was in Japan last time).

[B Gallagher]

Damn man, you sound just like me 5 months ago. I'm off to Japan early next month and first chance I get, i'm heading to either Ginza or Shibuya to pick myself up a PowerBook.

Fire away with any specific questions you want to know, and I should be able to help you out. I've put a lot of research into this.

The voltage difference won't be a problem - the PB's 110~240/50~60, so i'll work anywhere with a simple plug adaptor - you won't need a power convertor.

The default PB's in Japan do have the Japanese keyboard layout, but you can easily BTO one which has a US keyboard layout.

After having a quick look at apple.com.au, I've found that buying a PB will DEFFINATELY be cheaper in Japan. Even more so if you have a student discount.

Also, what are you going to do over there? :O Work? Study?

Ask away man! I'll help as much as I can!

[Ulrich Kinbote]

RE: Bilingual keyboards.

Case comparison.

I purchased my 12" G4 Powerbook in South Korea.

It has both English and Hangul (Korean) characters without any layout differences (the English characters are larger and placed in the bottom left hand corner of each key, the Hangul characters smaller, in the upper right-hand corner). There are more characters in Korean than English, but this is resolved by designating more than one Korean character to certain keys, which are used with the Shift key.

I have also seen Japanese-Korean with no layout differences respecting the English keys. I'm sure the same goes for English-Japanese.

I don't know what phantomo is talking about, but I'd definitely recommend getting your PB in Japan if you intend to spend any amount of time there, for the obvious reason that you'll be able to type in Japanese.

[david_copperfield]

Not much difference.

If you need an english layout keybroad and a cheap pb, why not go to Japan via HongKong?

All I can say is that the computers in Hongkong are much more cheaper than the rest all over the world?

[B Gallagher]

Regarding the keyboard:

You can type in any language you want regardless of what type of keyboard layout you have. All you need to do for that is to enable/disable languages in the international section. So that's not a problem. You could type in Swahili (sp? - I'm assuming OSX supports it) on a US-layout keyboard if you wanted to. Actual language input is all software based. But all keyboards do the same thing.

Ulrich Kinbote - I don't know whether you've ever tried to type anything in Korean on a keyboard, but they use the exact same *layout* as a standard US keyboard. The only difference is, each English letter corrisponds with either a Hangul (Korean) consonant or vowel.

The difference with the Japanese layout, Ulrich Kinbote, is that is has extra keys. There's one above the tab button for quick switching between Romaji and Kana. And a lot of the extra characters (@, ", ; , :, etc...) are on different buttons to the US keyboard. That's what the biggest difference is between the US and Japanese keyboards, in my mind at least. I really need to find a pic to better illustrate this.

David Copperfield - why the ? on your last sentence? Typo? Anyways, you can easily get an English layout keyboard in Japan, you wouldn't have to go to Hong Kong just to do so. Apple Japan's online store gives this as one of your options when you order a PB online, and I'm sure, at retail stores too.

However, if you want to go to HK for other shopping reasons or whatever, then go for it! I haven't been personally, but have heard from a number of people (including people from Hong Kong) that the shopping there is awesome, and cheap. For computers, yes. For Macs? I don't know. But the cost of Macs in Japan is very close already to the cost in the US (and *slightly* lower with a student discount), so I doubt you may get them much cheaper than that.

Good luck!

[Ulrich Kinbote]

>> I don't know whether you've ever tried to type anything in Korean on a keyboard, but they use the exact same *layout* as a standard US keyboard.<<

Read my posting again. You are repeating exactly what I said.

Hauteur is especially annoying when it's founded on error.

But you continue:

>>The only difference is, each English letter corrisponds with either a Hangul (Korean) consonant or vowel.<<

You need to look up the meaning of "correspond" and then learn how to spell it (should you edit your post, for the record, it is not "corrisponds").

Have you ever considered taking an adult remedial reading course?

To repeat : I never claimed to know anything about the keyboard layout of Japanese PowerBooks. I know the layout of the keyboard I am staring at, and it is exactly as I described.

As for this forum, if B Gallagher -- senior member -- is any indication of the kind of attitude that passes here for friendly assistance, I'd rather trade my G4 PowerBook in for a Hyundai desktop.

Goodbye.

[Xiaopangzi]

I bought all of my PowerBooks in Tokyo, and they were several times more expensive (my PB 170 was 4 x the U.S. price after currency conversion) than in North America, but Apple has been trying to unify the prices around the world.

The JIS keyboard is an absolute pain. I won't even begin to talk about that, but it is what I used for almost all of my computing throughout the 1990s.

Get your PowerBook before going to Japan, or you'll pay an arm and a leg.

Don't forget, all Japanese electronics are also much cheaper overseas than in Japan itself. Prices have come down since Japan began to wallow in economic difficulty, but it's cheaper to buy anything Japanese as well as any Apple products overseas rather than in Japan.

[hapachris]

Well, when you compare i.e. the price for a 12" PB (Superdrive) on Apple Store Australia (2749$; around 233000 Yen) and on Apple Store Japan (199290 Yen), it's way cheaper to buy it in Japan. And like the others stated here already, you can get one with an US keyboard layout as well.

I just got a 12" PB (Superdrive) yesterday here in Tokyo (haven't used a Mac in the last 8 years - now I'm back! YAY!) .
I bought it for 173000 Yen in Akihabara, so quite cheaper than at the Apple Stores and most of the other stores. The keyboard layout is JIS, cuz I need to type in Japanese as well.
I wouldn't say it's "an absolute pain". It all depends on what you want to do.

[zed57]

Hey, I was just in Japan, at the Ginza store, the guy there said it is no problem to swap the keyboard out on a notebook for an english only one if you wanted.

[david_copperfield]

Originally Posted by B Gallagher

Regarding the keyboard:

David Copperfield - why the ? on your last sentence? Typo? Anyways, you can easily get an English layout keyboard in Japan, you wouldn't have to go to Hong Kong just to do so. Apple Japan's online store gives this as one of your options when you order a PB online, and I'm sure, at retail stores too.

Good luck!

the question mark was used to ask if you agreed with me or not.

[Xiaopangzi]

Originally Posted by hapachris

Well, when you compare i.e. the price for a 12" PB (Superdrive) on Apple Store Australia (2749$; around 233000 Yen) and on Apple Store Japan (199290 Yen), it's way cheaper to buy it in Japan. And like the others stated here already, you can get one with an US keyboard layout as well.

I just got a 12" PB (Superdrive) yesterday here in Tokyo (haven't used a Mac in the last 8 years - now I'm back! YAY!) .
I bought it for 173000 Yen in Akihabara, so quite cheaper than at the Apple Stores and most of the other stores. The keyboard layout is JIS, cuz I need to type in Japanese as well.
I wouldn't say it's "an absolute pain". It all depends on what you want to do.

I'm surprised to see that the prices have changed so much in my three-year absence. I was working in Akihabara (the other side of the station from the electronics stores) from 1986 to 2002 and spending all of my lunch breaks at the Mac stores.

I, too, got a U.S. keyboard for two of my PowerBooks in the past and easily installed them myself. You definitely don't need a JIS keyboard to type Japanese, though. The reason why I say that the JIS keyboard is a pain is because, even if you get used to the apostrophe being way up on the top row, it's still hard to hit the extremely short space key even after years of use, instead hitting the hiragana and romaji toggle keys.

Maybe the JIS keyboard has improved with a longer space key since my last PowerBook purchase.

As you can guess, I am a Japanese translator, and I still prefer to use the U.S. keyboard while typing either Japanese or English, especially since I mostly translate from Japanese to English.

[yugyug]

thanks everyone, thats some useful info - didn't mean to start WW3 tho!

I'm going on a working holiday visa, hopefully to work in graphics but my nihongo is a dogs breakfast so I might need to do some ESL teaching for a while I get that on track (if anyone knows any agencies do don't require japanese fluency please let me know tho! )

I'll be researching the powerbook prices closer to my departure but my mates over there reckon its cheaper ... hey I'm still on a 1st generation 500mhz tibook so as long as its better than that

does anybody know if the powerbook dvd drives are still region locked or specific?

[Andy8]

Originally Posted by david_copperfield

Not much difference.

If you need an english layout keybroad and a cheap pb, why not go to Japan via HongKong?

All I can say is that the computers in Hongkong are much more cheaper than the rest all over the world?

Agreed, Hong Kong has no sales tax, so it is the cheapest place to buy Apple hardware. Japan has a 4.5% sales tax.

Check the ticket prices, as you may get a better deal flying to Japan via Hong Kong on Cathay Pacific.

All Apple hardware here is sold with US style Keyboards and English manuals, Japan it is all Japanese.

[B Gallagher]

Originally Posted by yugyug

does anybody know if the powerbook dvd drives are still region locked or specific?

The drive on the PB will come, out of the box, region-locked (RPC2). In order to make it region-free, you have to somehow flash the firmware (making it RPC1). However, flashing the firmware will void your warranty. I'm unsure of whether this is the warranty on the entire PB, or just the drive... but yeah. More info on this here.
My way, at least, of getting around this problem is to flash an external CD/DVD drive to region-free (RPC1), and use that for watching DVDs.

Originally Posted by Andy8

All Apple hardware here is sold with US style Keyboards and English manuals, Japan it is all Japanese.

But you can always download English manuals from here .

Which part of Japan will you be in?

[crazeazn]

Originally Posted by Ulrich Kinbote

RE: Bilingual keyboards.

Case comparison.

I purchased my 12" G4 Powerbook in South Korea.

It has both English and Hangul (Korean) characters without any layout differences (the English characters are larger and placed in the bottom left hand corner of each key, the Hangul characters smaller, in the upper right-hand corner). There are more characters in Korean than English, but this is resolved by designating more than one Korean character to certain keys, which are used with the Shift key.

I have also seen Japanese-Korean with no layout differences respecting the English keys. I'm sure the same goes for English-Japanese.

I don't know what phantomo is talking about, but I'd definitely recommend getting your PB in Japan if you intend to spend any amount of time there, for the obvious reason that you'll be able to type in Japanese.

is there a way to obtain this keyboard without going to korea? my apple store in the US cannot seem to obtain the bloody thing for me. =( and i would like it

[phantomo]

This is what I was referring to, notice the keys around "Return" key are different from the US keyboard layout.



Also, the spacebar is shorter as well

[yugyug]

The drive on the PB will come, out of the box, region-locked (RPC2). In order to make it region-free, you have to somehow flash the firmware (making it RPC1). However, flashing the firmware will void your warranty. I'm unsure of whether this is the warranty on the entire PB, or just the drive... but yeah. More info on this here.

cheers, but jeez what a hassle: I locked my current drive and now can't play heaps of stuff, I travel a bit and it is JUST RIDICULOUS that a personal laptop cannot play dvds unrestricted in different regions (without voiding your warranty).

anyway I thought as it might still be the case.....

Which part of Japan will you be in?

I wil be in Tokyo at first as that where I have friends, but actually i'm more intereted in living in Kyoto so I can research the sand gardens for a masters degree (possibly), or Okinawa so I can satiate my addiction to spear fishing. Art vs Hunting.... its a tough choice.

[B Gallagher]

Here's a comparison of PB prices (non-educational) in HK and Japan.

12" ComboDrive

• Japan - ￥178,290 (USD 1,600.44)
• Hong Kong - $11,900 (USD 1,533.25)

12" SuperDrive

• Japan - ￥199,290 (USD 1,788.96)
• Hong Kong - $13,600 (USD 1,752.29)

15" ComboDrive

• Japan - ￥230,790 (USD 2,071.72)
• Hong Kong - $15,600 (USD 2,010.02)

15" SuperDrive

• Japan - ￥272,790 (USD 2,448.74)
• Hong Kong - $17,900 (USD 2,306.36)

17" SuperDrive

• Japan - ￥314,790 (USD 2,826.17)
• Hong Kong - $20,900 (USD 2,692.91)

All official Apple Store prices. Other shops might have them at different prices. But, if you're going to get it from an official Apple Shop, getting it via HK doesn't seem to save you enough money to warrant doing so.

[B Gallagher]

Originally Posted by crazeazn

is there a way to obtain this keyboard without going to korea? my apple store in the US cannot seem to obtain the bloody thing for me. =( and i would like it

Get your local apple store (or you) to give Apple Korea a ring, or an email. Their phone number's at the bottom of this site, and an email from to contact them is here (it's name, email, message, send; in that order ).

Just of note, the Korean store doesn't have BTO options for the PB, at least online. But that shouldn't make any difference.

Best of luck!