[Dex13]

well now that i have had my imac for about two years, i have now concluded that the next time i buy a computer, it's going to be a tower. The imac is crippled by the fact that it cannot upgrade it's graphics card, memory is pc100, the upgrades for it's cpu are very expensive. It's not that i hate my imac, it has done wonders for me, it's just that i am disapointed that that i cannot upgrade my mac.

[Atef's corpse]

You knew that when you bought it (or should have known). Apple's product lineup is very simple.

[ApeInTheShell]

Yeah that was hard for me when i chose the iMac G3 insted of the Power Mac G3.
Sometimes you sacrifice form over function like upgrading. I'll probably pick up a power mac someday but ill need a reason for it like professional work.

[slider]

Well there are several reasons to get an iMac: All in one, overall design, price, simplicity, fewer cables, space saver.

BTW I have a tower, but paid more for it, upgraded the GPU, 17" monitor and am thinking about a 15"lcd for dual mode, added a USB pci card.

You need to decide what is more important to you. If I could afford it I would have an iMac too. If you're a student you can get an 867QS for like 1200-1300 dollars.

[Dex13]

Yeah, a tower is more expensive, but more sensible in the long run. Well now that i have "outgrown" my imac and gone into graphic design I need a computer that will grow with me. And unfortunately, my imac wasn't able to.

[icruise]

I don't think that really says anything about the imac -- your needs have changed and now you need a different kind of computer. For a lot of people, though, the imac is just fine. The only sticking point for me is the unupgradable video card.

[omarv]

I think that this is exactly what apple wants to happen.

[slider]

No, I don't think apple makes there consumer computer compact and difficult to upgrade, if not impossible, so you will go out and get a PowerMac, they really are two different markets. It's about increasing the user base, and that involves a simple easy to use all in one machine. If you're a pro (or generally more experienced user) a higher end machine is probably a better fit. Here in these forums, many users are experience and not shy about cracking open the case. But, most people are skittish about that sort of thing. We all criticize Apple about the ram slot upgrade, the one on the MB, but you might be surprise how many people are afraid to even open up the "user cover" to do a simple upgrade. This is probably the extent of what most users are willing to do with the exception of installing an Airport card. The fact that you know what a Video card is, seriously, might be an indicator that the pro machines are more suited to you. Know what you're going to do on the machine will always be the best fit, internet, Office, and iApps, you're pretty much all set with an iMac (iDVD debatable). So joe soe with the simple all in one, easy to use, iApp using, internet ready, running Office because that is what work has machine, increases user base which means more people are buying and using the platform, which means that when a PC software writing company is considering writing for the Mac, the size of the user base will make it profitable for them. Well, that's a little disjoint.

[CreepDogg]

I think the other point here is that the iMac costs a lot less than a PowerMac package (when you include tower + monitor). I know the cheapest PowerMac configuration is close to the most expensive iMac configuration - but that's not really the point.

The iMac is designed to be, for better or worse, more 'disposable' - in other words, when components on it begin to get outdated, you replace the whole computer rather than upgrade. I'm sure there are many situations that would differ - but on balance, the cost of 2 iMacs could be construed as roughly equal to the cost of one PowerMac package plus a (significant) upgrade.

The advantage is that you essentially upgrade all the components - processor, RAM, motherboard, optical drive, etc. - and have everything up to date. For example, 2 years ago you couldn't get an iMac with a SuperDrive. If you wanted to (and could) upgrade an existing iMac with a better video card and a SuperDrive, it would be half the cost of a new iMac right there...and you'd still have a G3 and the same monitor...

The disadvantage is that you can't pick and choose even if you want to - if you ONLY want a new video card, obviously that can't be done. There's also the environmental issue of disposing of an unwanted machine, but there's also the possibility for donating or selling it.

[CreepDogg]

...by the way, I'm one of the users that sticks with iMacs for that reason. They're also a lot quieter! Hopefully I'll be looking at picking up a new one after the update in January - depends on how they're improved!

[Dex13]

No, the video card is not the only thing that cripples the imac, but also the fact that in a few short years my imac's os was outdated by Mac OS X. I use it now on my imac, but it runs slow (still love it though). Another thing isn't the capacity limit of the memory of the imac, it's the bus speed, 100, i mean couldn't they have least gone 133? The powermacs have barely been upgraded to hold the new ddr ram out there in the market.

So ... I know its my fault for purchasing an imac, but the product still disappoints me.
Oh and i know plenty of towers that are as quiet as the imac.

And i read somewhere you could overclk the imac, by mix and matching circuits in the logic board, the max is 1.0 Ghz I believe. I wouldn�t mind doing that soon.
I was also wondering if you could overclk the video card as well using software? Well it�s worth a shot.
And Believe me I love Apple for all they have done.

[icruise]

Really, though, the answer to your problems is to sell the imac and get a new machine. It isn't possible to upgrade it up to the standards of a newish tower, and it would cost a lot of money and effort to try.

I actually don't think iMacs are such a bad idea if you resign yourself to the idea of selling them and replacing them every couple of years. This is assuming that you don't need the absolute best performance at any particular time or PCI slots.

But if you bought the next iteration of the iMac flatpanel and sold it in a year or so to get the next version you would would arguably be better off than if you had spent a lot more on a tower planning to keep it for three or four years.

[Superchicken]

The iMac is good for people who don't wanna get obssessed with their comps... or for begining computer users... the next desktop I buy should be a Power Mac... I crave the upgradeable parts and extra room... not to mention the sexyness of the tower... after that I'll probably be married and buy an iMac for my wife... after I marry.

[driven]

Originally posted by Dex13:
well now that i have had my imac for about two years, i have now concluded that the next time i buy a computer, it's going to be a tower. The imac is crippled by the fact that it cannot upgrade it's graphics card, memory is pc100, the upgrades for it's cpu are very expensive. It's not that i hate my imac, it has done wonders for me, it's just that i am disapointed that that i cannot upgrade my mac.

I can do all of these upgrades with my Cube (minus the pc100 RAM which is of course stuck because of the 100Ghz buss speed). 'tis a shame it's dead.

[D'Espice]

I think that is exactly what the iMac is for. Home users with now need to upgrade but the need for a computer that just works, where you don't have to worry about that kinda stuff at all.

Personally, I would never get an iMac but only because I don't like not being able to replace the display.

[Centris650]

The first mac I owned was a Centris 650. Later I upgraded the ram and installed a CD drive. I never really upgraded the beige box after that. (Though I did use an external HD since my once grand 80mb HD was all but used up by the new OS (7 or 8 I think)) When Apple released the iMac revA I was thrilled. What did I need upgrades for? I had never really upgraded my C650! And most of all it was cheap and fast! I was sold.

...one iMac and iBook later....

I've gotten tired of upgrading/changing computers. The rate at which the technology & software requirements are changing my system specs are aged and can't run certain software or hardware. (for example my iomega cd burner won't burn audio cd's on my imac revA. But when I hook it up to my iBook it's fine. Why? The Rev A uses a slower USB port than later models. But I can't upgrade it.) I've looked at upgrading my RevA with one of the few cpu upgrades out there but it would be just as cheap to buy a new one. *sigh*

I am considering a G4 tower in the very near future. There are a few items that I currently need and want for my system but as external add ons they are much too expensive. I love the iMac line and will probably buy another one someday (if it's still around) for my son...but not for me.

[kcmac]

How many people actually upgrade that much on their computers? Most friends I know with PC's have complained that you can't upgrade an iMac but they have never upgraded their PC's. They use them for a year or two and get a new one.

Generally the only reason I have thought of upgrading is because an iMac lasts so long and it is fun to have the latest and greatest. If the dang thing would just break I wouldn't have to think about upgrading, I could just go get another.

Fortunately, my kids are getting older and it's just as easy to pass the old one down and get a new one!

[driven]

Originally posted by kcmac:
How many people actually upgrade that much on their computers? Most friends I know with PC's have complained that you can't upgrade an iMac but they have never upgraded their PC's. They use them for a year or two and get a new one.

Generally the only reason I have thought of upgrading is because an iMac lasts so long and it is fun to have the latest and greatest. If the dang thing would just break I wouldn't have to think about upgrading, I could just go get another.

Fortunately, my kids are getting older and it's just as easy to pass the old one down and get a new one!

That's what I was thinking as well.

For example: The iMac DV SE 500 that I purchased for my wife/daughter still does exactly what I purchased it for exceedingly well. Same with my G4 Cube.

Where I run into trouble is when I try to make them do something that was not on the radar when I first purcahased them. (Such as the desired to run iDVD with a SuperDrive.) Of course the easiest solution is to upgrade to a new computer. (Which is cheap to do on a PC ... but a bit more for the mac.) However if I want a computer to do what I originally intended it to do then no, there is no reason to upgrade. (Even when the ability is there it generally doesn't happen ... for example there aren't too many folks running OS X and burning DVDs on Dual 450 or Dual 500 towers.)

So ... buy for today and save a few bucks for a new computer in the future.

[Mac Zealot]

When I bought my machine I knew 2 things.

1. My monitor would be hanging around for a LONG time (a $2500 monitor isn't one you throw away).

2. The computer would be around for a LONG TIME.

Ok, point proven.

I shelled out big time for the best, dual 800 and cinema display at the time, there wasn't even a faster/better PC!

Fact is, the longer I have it, the more I use it, and when I first had it, I felt it was still too powerful.

But get this, today it's been over a year (about 3 months more), and I feel as if I've only broken it in.

All my games are liquid fast, and I can upgrade the video card to something even better if I feel like it, but I won't for about another 6-8 months.

The hard drive is 80gb: enourmous. I've only utilized 35gb at the most on it!

The processors are VERY fast and efficient, to date I still haven't found myself complaining about the speed. With firewire I can move enourmous amounts of data to my ipod in seconds, full backups in minutes, and from there routine monthly backups that only take 40 MINUTES per 4.5gb!

That's pretty good, IMHO, and the fact is that now, a year later I've just begun to take advantage of -EVERYTHING-, and even then I'm not doing it daily.

For the days when I have dreamweaver, photoshop, word, itunes, chimera, ichat, mail, iphoto, terminal, calculator, xchat, icq, and perhaps even more apps open, the computer still works very well.

So the fact of the matter stands. This computer is still a speed demon in OS X, games play really well, I can add on another monitor if I need to, and I'm practically only utilizing about 40% of it's power and features. I've got a while until I'll really desire an upgrade, and then I can do several things:

1. max out the ram for 25% multitasking performance increase (I have 256mb and it can go up to 1.5gb)

2. Add more hard drives for storage (I have an 80gb and can have up to 4 200gb drives and more.

3. Upgrade the video card to a more modern AGP 4x card (I have a geforce 4mx/64mb. I can get a 4ti which is about 3 times faster o_O)

4. Upgrade the optical drive to something faster (the superdrive is just fine for my needs, but I can always get a faster/better drive in the future)

5. Upgrade the processors to the fastest G4 available

How long will it take until I actually upgrade? I'm guessing:

*6 months to upgrade to 768mb ram.
*8 months to upgrade to modern agp card
*1.3 years to upgrade hard drive
*2-2.5 for CPU

I dunno, maybe even longer. I'll probably replace this computer in ooh.. late 2005/early 2006?

[Dex13]

The ibook, as well as the imac should be put on this list. The earlier ibooks were, well outdated in less than a month, even the special editions (graphite). With poor speeds, poor memory cards, i would buy a powerbook over it any day, but thats just me. The ibook as i see it was made for .... wait ..... who was it made for? The only time i saw it was at an airport where this apple exec. used it in subtitution of an ipod(they weren't out yet, besides that im clueless to whos it's for. The only thing that it could be used for was word, some shareware games, and surfing the net which for some people is enough, and i respect that. I was mildly inpressed when the ibook w/ 16 mb vid came out, but when they came out with the 32 mb of vid and a bigger screen, i was finally pleased. I mean now a novice graphic designer or a web designer could now on the go could do thier work w/ a cheaper version of the powerbook with no drawbacks. It's products like these that makes me appreciate apple.
: )

Oh and hey MacZealot, thats a touching story, i wish all mac users had that expierience

[Centris650]

Don't get me wrong I still love the imac and the ibook. They have their place. When I bought my iMac RevA I needed an inexpensive computer. My Centris 650 had outlived it's time and needed to be sent to the old computer home. I think we all forget that the imac was a GREAT computer when it was first released AND cheap!!! (Not to mention just outright cool looking!) My ibook was purchased for Grad school and cheap mobility. (Mainly doing papers and freelance graphics)

Now I I'm designing websites and making movies for work. That takes a ton of memory that my ibook can't handle. Is the imac/ibook obsolete? Absolutely not! They are great computers and have much to offer. As someone stated above needs change and unfortunately imacs/ibooks cannot.

Sidenote: while I plan on purchasing an powermac sometime very soon I'm still planning on keeping and buying ibooks. Why, cheap mobility. It can do what I need it to do on an ibook when away from my desk. (It's kinda like one big PDA.)

[sabbath999]

I bought an 800mhz imac with superdrive a couple of months ago because I wanted something that would do the job I had to do (digital video editing), and didn't want to pay another grand for it.

I am an NT/XP system administrator during the day, and I do networking, hardware repairs, you name it, all day long. I like the iMac because it IS simple.

It replaces an actual, honest to God NeXT NeXTStation Color Turbo 33 that has served me for years. MaCH OS Rox! It's funny to see all the stuff that Apple kept from the original MaCH OS.

[Dex13]

There is no uncertainty in my mind that my imac came through for me countless times and still has it's place on my desktop as a web surfing, gaming, and website editing comp. I've had 3 macs which i have used to thier fullest and have been only satisfied w/ one (timewise), my performa 570, it ran apple works 5, netscape commuunicator w/ composer, ruled the internet (rather slowly though) and was my computer for almost six years, where it now sits in retirement in my room, where i occasionaly play Wacky Jacks, or Dr.Brain. My second was a powerbook, which in short was my portable dvd player, and sometimes i used it for editing my amateur websites, but when i became interested in graphic design, i turned my head to the towers, but sadly i didnt have the money so i ordered my self an imac, which after selling my poor powerbook to get the money i saw as a lukewarm exchange for me, for i got the indigo imac dv. But i came through and am still doing work on it, but spend most of my time editing and creating at my school, sadly on ibm workstations, but heh whatever gets the job done. My mac(s) have always come through for me and i am thankful for that especially for OS X, it totally beat 9.2 and windows 2000, which by the way always crashes on me.

Well before anyone else can say it, yes i should have kept my powerbook, but heh i dont really miss it that much : )

Well to al those future imac or emac or ibook buyers make sure you know all the pro and cons of having one so that you dont end up disgruntled as i have become.
Good Luck

And Heh i think i could have done more upgrades on my powerbook : )

[cowerd]

I don't think any is going to have an issue "out growing" the newer iMacs. With a G4/800 and 17in screen option, this is more machine than many graphic designers are using. Unless you are intending to use the iMac for 3D (in that case you should probably be on another platform), even the 6-month old iMac is plenty fast.

for fscsksssc sake Mac Zealot treat yourself to a late Xmas present. Get some RAM -- NOW. It will be the best $100 you ever spent--Kingston RAM is only $50 per 512megs. 256 megs for OS X is almost useless, especially if you are using Photoshop in a production environment. Max out the RAM--cheapest way to speed up your Mac.

[Dex13]

cowerd, i bet that when nwn comes out, we will hear alot of fp users geting mad, as well as ibook users, because from a thread in the mac gamers forum the game is going to require a very powerful computer, but this will be as big as the WC3 upset.

But heh thats only gaming the current ibooks and fp imacs will be in the digitial editing and graphic buisness for a while.

[seanyepez]

You're a sophomore at Bellarmine, right? I think I know you.

[Dex13]

Yes Sean,
Nice to see you back from vacation.

[seanyepez]

I'm actually still in Santiago.

[Dex13]

Santiago?
Wheres that?

[Dex13]

Man i know i sound biter, and i sound like i hate apple, but has anyone else been frusturated w/ the imacs or emacs lack of upgarde abilities?

Oh, and by the way im about to buy Jaguar(yes finally) and was wondering if a clean install would help at all?

[iChristopher]

Originally posted by Atef's corpse:
You knew that when you bought it (or should have known). Apple's product lineup is very simple.

Great post! You are obviously smarter than most people, since you can make a person look stupid (or at least try to).

[Eriamjh]

You should consider these things if you choose a PM over an iMac.

1.) You have to buy a monitor (extra cost).
2.) You CAN upgrade the processor, but with changing architecture, etc. it still isn't really worth it compared to selling and buying a newer machine.
3.) If you didn't need the PCI slots on an iMac, would you really need them on a PM?
4.) Takes up way more desk/floor space (OK, not really a good reason).


Hardware envy is the biggest thing to fight when buying a Mac. We know in 6 to 9 months (or less!) that our Mac will be "slow" compared to the new macs out there. Depending on your needs, I'm sure your machine will continue to suit you fine (unless you play games). It will only seem slow in your mind if you mentally compare your 600MHz G3 to a 1.25GHz G4.

Now on the other hand you have the benefits of a Tower G4 that an iMac can't touch. Room for more HDs, four PCI slots, ability to upgrade the video card (big on in the gaming world), and up to 1.5GB of ram, and any display you wish or multiple displays.

It all boils down to cost versus benefits. Where do you need to be?

(For the record, I have a 200MHz 604e that is now an MP3 playing machine. It works great!)

[Coxy]

Originally posted by Dex13:
well now that i have had my imac for about two years, i have now concluded that the next time i buy a computer, it's going to be a tower. The imac is crippled by the fact that it cannot upgrade it's graphics card, memory is pc100, the upgrades for it's cpu are very expensive. It's not that i hate my imac, it has done wonders for me, it's just that i am disapointed that that i cannot upgrade my mac.

At least you said so politely!
One thread, much like this on another set of forums started off "I hate my crap iMac and it's goddamned 8 MB of VRAM", I kid you not.

[Dex13]

thx coxy, i would have put that but it probably would have been removed, which i presume is what happened to that post : )

But no one has answered my other question (or should i make another post?) when i install jaguar would a clean install be of any help on my imac dv indigo, cause i sure dont use os 9 anymore.

[Dex13]

wow, is all i coud say after i installed Jaguar.
Jaguar has given my mac new life and meaning, and i have to say jaguar was worth every penny.
Hats off to Apple.

But still a question, whenever you install something now in OS X, is the optimizing system performance really need to be done?