[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

I'm pretty sure he's just mocking the boobs who have been saying this on MacNN for a while now.

Lol... i know. i was just trying to annoy him.

Notice the lack of Microsoft and Sony from the list above your post.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by starman

You are FULL OF SH*T.

Had Nintendo not come out with the Wii controller you would NOT be making that statement.

Oh pipe down. take a sedative or get a joint or something.

They did come out with the Wii controller. there are so so many different possibilities of improving controller design... yet Microsoft and Sony are stuck following Nintendo in that respect when it comes to interactive entertainment.

it doesnt make any sence....these companies are bigger with far more resources to throw into R&D and they cant come up with anything different? surely u must be disappointed they couldnt introduce something like the Wii controller or even something beyond that before Nintendo while at the same time improving the graphics/power of the system?

The way it stands.... Nintendo is just raising the bar across the board... power, graphicss, control, services, asthetics, etc.... no aspect of gaming has been ignored or given a back seat.... they are touting all the improvements, not just the control or not just the graphics like Sony or Microsoft. And it's at an affordable price point as well.... you gotta love that.

[starman]

Microsoft has done something that Nintendo hasn't and that's online gameplay. They rule at it. Why do you ignore this? You seem to think that Nintendo invented everything, your list of "innovations" proves that you're a blind fanboy since only about half of them were actually first used by Nintendo.

As for the Wii controller, no, I'm not thrilled to death over it. First off, for people like me that have used standard controllers for 30 years, it's something that's going to take some getting used to. Second, I'm not 100% convinced that the controller's reader won't be flawless. The controller better have a backup plan. I'm also not thoroughly convinced that games like Mario will work well with it.

I'd really like to know how in the world you think Nintendo is raising the bar in graphics. Or Power. Or services. Seriously, you think for one second that Nintendo is going to beat MS for online services? Never. 8-bit games doesn't mean they have uberservices. Power? Where? Graphics? Where?

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Lol... i know. i was just trying to annoy him.

Notice the lack of Microsoft and Sony from the list above your post.

Notice that Nintendo didn't invent as much as you thought they did.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

-2 handed controllers
-direction pad
-shoulder buttons
-analog sticks
-wireless conrollers
-rumble
-direct pointing device

As starman pointed out, less than half of those are actual Nintendo innovations. And some are quite dubious. I mean, we have had wireless controllers for TVs for decades.

I guess one could say Sony came up with an innovation which changed gaming forever, namely 3D graphics. The Playstation was the first console that was purely made for 3D graphics. Sega had to radically change the Saturn prior to launch because it was going to be another 2D machine, and Nintendo followed up a whole 2 years later with the N64. They were also first on the block with, umm, vertical stands, which both MS and Nintendo have since implemented.

So at least give credit where credit's due

[starman]

Originally Posted by Busemann

So at least give credit where credit's due

Fanboys rarely do.

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by starman

Notice that Nintendo didn't invent as much as you thought they did.

Fair enough. but notice how neither Sony or Microsoft are on your list.

Power and graphics.... it's better than last generation, right ?

And services...Nitendo Wi-Fi is free. if you want to play online, you dont have to pay a subscription fee. And they are currently executing on that business model. Their ambition to launch an online video game store ala iTunes for games... is also quite a step forward as far as content delivery. Not to mention backwards compatibility (which seemed to matter so much to PS fanboys in the past).

And yeah... for those who have been playing games the same way for 30 years, its understandable why they wouldnt want to change. im just glad....being part of a newer generation that things like GUIs and pointing devices are being released into the market place.

Buseman....Sony didnt "invent" 3D graphics..... the first 3D game on a console that used polygons was StarFox. Microsoft didnt invent "online gameplay" either.

Vertical stands...sure...Sony has that going for it. And yes..i do think Microsoft deservs some credit for XBox Live...but id applaud it a lot more if it was free...the way it ought to be.

I guess.... my perspective is that of a casual gamer. when someone mentions games...the first thing that pops into my mind is "interactivity"... not power/graphics. And in that respect, Nintendo has done a lot more than the other companies playing the game these days. But they dont ignore graphics/power. luckily they dont ignore economics as well... which is why they can make a console for $250 with all these improvements and still turn a profit and survive.

And if it's all about the games...look no further than the NDS or GBA to see how Nintendo's own software is performing. If third parties, gaming journalists and hardcore gamers dismiss nintendo.... it doesnt really matter, cause it appears as though us causal gamers love the content (hardware and software) released by Nintendo...which means everyones happy.

Cheers and good night.

[starman]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Fair enough. but notice how neither Sony or Microsoft are on your list.

Power and graphics.... it's better than last generation, right ?

And services...Nitendo Wi-Fi is free. if you want to play online, you dont have to pay a subscription fee. And they are currently executing on that business model. Their ambition to launch an online video game store ala iTunes for games... is also quite a step forward as far as content delivery. Not to mention backwards compatibility (which seemed to matter so much to PS fanboys in the past).

And yeah... for those who have been playing games the same way for 30 years, its understandable why they wouldnt want to change. im just glad....being part of a newer generation that things like GUIs and pointing devices are being released into the market place.

Buseman....Sony didnt "invent" 3D graphics..... the first 3D game on a console that used polygons was StarFox. Microsoft didnt invent "online gameplay" either.

Vertical stands...sure...Sony has that going for it. And yes..i do think Microsoft deservs some credit for XBox Live...but id applaud it a lot more if it was free...the way it ought to be.

I guess.... my perspective is that of a casual gamer. when someone mentions games...the first thing that pops into my mind is "interactivity"... not power/graphics. And in that respect, Nintendo has done a lot more than the other companies playing the game these days. But they dont ignore graphics/power. luckily they dont ignore economics as well... which is why they can make a console for $250 with all these improvements and still turn a profit and survive.

And if it's all about the games...look no further than the NDS or GBA to see how Nintendo's own software is performing. If third parties, gaming journalists and hardcore gamers dismiss nintendo.... it doesnt really matter, cause it appears as though us causal gamers love the content (hardware and software) released by Nintendo...which means everyones happy.

Cheers and good night.

Uh, Sony's online system is free too. So, uh, what's your point?

Your statement about being part of a "next generation" is obnoxious and false. I use a mouse. I didn't start out with a mouse. I used a keyboard for many years and adopted the mouse just fine because it was NECESSARY. The Wii controller doesn't look NECESSARY to push gaming. It's a good step, but we'll see if that step is forward or backwards after it comes out. I have a very hard time thinking that the controller is going to help the games, instead the games will wrap around the controller. Do I really NEED a Wii controller to play a game like Katamari Damachi? You see, nobody in the history of gaming ever said in print "gee, I wish I could wave a wand in the air to play Ridge Racer".

You really think Xbox Live should be free? Man, you remind me of the people that don't like paying for WoW, like the servers run themselves or something.

[Dakar]

Reading this thread is my guilty pleasure.

[Busemann]

Buseman....Sony didnt "invent" 3D graphics..... the first 3D game on a console that used polygons was StarFox.

3D graphics have existed for a long time, but the Playstation was the first home console purely designed for it. Interestingly enough, if it wasn't for Nintendo being so greedy, they would probably own the home market throughout the 90's. As per Wikipedia:

In 1991, the SNES-CD was to be announced at the June CES. However, when Hiroshi Yamauchi read the original 1988 contract between Sony and Nintendo and learned that it allowed Sony 25% of the profits from the machine, he was furious. He deemed the contract totally unacceptable, and secretly cancelled all plans for a joint Nintendo-Sony SNES CD attachment.

[Dakar]

I think Nintendo would kil for 25% of the Playstation's profits now, eh?

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Busemann

As starman pointed out, less than half of those are actual Nintendo innovations. And some are quite dubious. I mean, we have had wireless controllers for TVs for decades.

I guess one could say Sony came up with an innovation which changed gaming forever, namely 3D graphics. The Playstation was the first console that was purely made for 3D graphics. Sega had to radically change the Saturn prior to launch because it was going to be another 2D machine, and Nintendo followed up a whole 2 years later with the N64. They were also first on the block with, umm, vertical stands, which both MS and Nintendo have since implemented.

So at least give credit where credit's due

N64 launched one year later than the PS1, not two years.

Anyway, Sony deserves a ton of credit for how well they executed in the 32-bit era. Since then, they've really been dropping the ball I think.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by itai195

N64 launched one year later than the PS1, not two years.

Well, the PS was first released in late '94 (95 in Europe) , while the N64 was first out in mid '96 ('97 in Europe)

[Chuckit]

Nintendo doesn't really have a profit problem, as far as I know.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Well, the PS was released in late '94 (95 in Europe) , while the N64 was out in mid '96 ('97 in Europe)

The PS was released in the US on 9/9/95. N64 was released on 9/29/96. I guess if you use the Japanese launch dates it was like 16 months in between, though the N64 was delayed repeatedly (and not because it didn't support 3D).

[ajprice]

This is a PS3 controller on display. No engrish jokes on this one -


Joystiq link

[Busemann]

[angelmb]

Hurry up Nintendo gamers !! Nintendo's Online Press Room is open to non-members until Jun, 17. Time to get all those fancy game's artworks !!

http://press.nintendo.com/loginSplash.jsp

Username: media
Password: dslite

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by ajprice

This is a PS3 controller on display. No engrish jokes on this one -

That looks glate!

[angelmb]

let's play the 'how biased is your country media? game'

EDGE UK…



EDGE SPAIN…



EDGE UK:

Cover Story: "Heavenly? What developing on PS3 is really like."

Botton left: "Revolution Redefined."

EDGE SPAIN:

Cover Story: "Heavenly. El juego de más éxito del E3." -heavenly, most successful e3 game- Where is the big question mark?

Botton left: "E3, EL SHOW" -e3, the show-

So Revolution Redefined is MIA, and such E3 report is all about how good is PS3, how fair is it priced -they even say people didn't really complain about PS3's $500 and $600 price tag-

[Busemann]

Better stick to the original

[nforcer]

Good comparison and find.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Some interesting Nintendo points came out today.

First they admit the gamecube was a failure (even though they made money goMac). This is right from Iwata and Miyamoto:
"Regarding expected Wii sales, Iwata replied: "Wii will be a failure if it cannot sell far more than GameCube did."

"Regarding lackluster GameCube adoption, Iwata said, "To avoid repeating this with Wii, we have been intensifying the software development, both internally at Nintendo and at developers outside the company, in order to prepare aggressive software lineup for Wii at and after the launch."

The micro isn't selling well. Guess even Nintendo fanboys got sick of buying the same hardware for the 10th time:
"On poor Micro sales: "[T]he actual consumers had to evaluate Micro without touching them (NOTE: Nintendo didn't use demo kiosks). In the end, we failed to explain to consumers its unique value and they concluded that Micro is not worth the price they have to invest."

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/06/20/ni...efing-details/

Even more bazzar the Wii and GameCube version of Zelda will be exactly the same except the Wii version will use the Wiimote. If that is the case why the heck make them two seperate SKUs? Not only that but it is just a port in the end and doesn't use the Wii's "better" graphical powers.

"The current Nintendo Power (August) seems to confirm that with exception to the controls, the GameCube and Wii versions of Zelda: Twilight Princess will be identical. This contradicts rumors that the title will leverage Wii's slightly superior graphics engine and possibly contain added features.

Regardless of your opinion on the dual release strategy, two versions are coming. So could it hurt Wii's chances of success if the GameCube version ends up getting better reviews, or would it merely expose the tacked-on controls of Wii's rendition?"

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/06/21/ze...-wii-gamecube/

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/wii...ent-182206.php

[MindFad]

zomg

[Hawkeye_a]

If both versions are identical..... with the only difference being control scheme..... ummm... im not sure. im undecided on which one to get. If they have some extra content on the Wii version...behind the scenes developer diaries (since it is a much bigger disc) or if the GCN game is on 2 discs...ill get the Wii version. but if theyre identical and on 1 disc for each version...i dont know which one would be a better buy.

And if what we saw from E3 is the "identical version"...im rather shocked at the visual capabilities of the GCN.... blown away infact....my first impressions were "if this is what the Wii will deliver graphially, im set"

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/pho...ine_in_bag.jpg

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

3D graphics have existed for a long time, but the Playstation was the first home console purely designed for it.

Yeah no. The Playstation could do 3D graphics, but saying the Playstation was designed purely for 3D graphics is a bit of a stretch. A lot of the launch games for the PS were not 3D. The PS was 3D in the same way the Saturn was. It could do 3D, but it wasn't exactly built around 3D. The PS2 was the first Sony console imo that was created for 3D. If anything, honors for first console purely designed for 3D goes to N64. It was powerful enough for 3D, had an API based on OpenGL, and had a controller designed for 3D. When the PS1 first came out, it seemed the console was big on full motion video as opposed to the N64's 3D capabilities. You had Crash Bandicoot and stuff, but there were a lot of "multimedia pc" ports.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

First they admit the gamecube was a failure (even though they made money goMac). This is right from Iwata and Miyamoto:
"Regarding expected Wii sales, Iwata replied: "Wii will be a failure if it cannot sell far more than GameCube did."

Do you just read what you want to read? I'm reading that quote and Miyamoto does not say the Gamecube was a failure. Someone else is welcome to correct me if they see it.

[Peter]

http://www.veoh.com/videoDetails.html?v=e84439BWqaSwM7
great video podcast about the PS3 controller with tilt and rumble...

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by goMac

Yeah no. The Playstation could do 3D graphics, but saying the Playstation was designed purely for 3D graphics is a bit of a stretch. A lot of the launch games for the PS were not 3D. The PS was 3D in the same way the Saturn was. It could do 3D, but it wasn't exactly built around 3D. The PS2 was the first Sony console imo that was created for 3D. If anything, honors for first console purely designed for 3D goes to N64. It was powerful enough for 3D, had an API based on OpenGL, and had a controller designed for 3D. When the PS1 first came out, it seemed the console was big on full motion video as opposed to the N64's 3D capabilities. You had Crash Bandicoot and stuff, but there were a lot of "multimedia pc" ports.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I found a pic of goMac and Hawkeye_a. Suddenly it all makes sense.

[Hawkeye_a]

hahahaha.... dude.....ur the homosexual nintendo fanboy with everything including the virtualboy, right ? lol....funny though..

[starman]

^^ buahahahahahhhahah

[Eug Wanker]

I'm scared to ask how you found that pic...

[Dakar]

All i see is facial hair...

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

hahahaha.... dude.....ur the homosexual nintendo fanboy with everything including the virtualboy, right ? lol....funny though..

So what you're saying is that Nintendo fans are gay?

How did your mom react?

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

So what you're saying is that Nintendo fans are gay?

How did your mom react?

She wasnt surprised

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Dakar

All i see is facial hair...

Consider yourself lucky. oh my eyes, how they bleed.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

She wasnt surprised

Ya that Nintendo DS really gave it away eh

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Ya that Nintendo DS really gave it away eh

Actually its that poster of Mario and Luigi i got on my wall....

ack..thats just wrong lol nevermid

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Well it's true. The GPU wasn't didn't have any 3D acceleration, only 2D. It had a separate chip for vector math that helped it do software 3D graphics.

I mean, if the Playstation is your definition of "built for 3D graphics", the Saturn would have been also "Built for 3D graphics", and was out before the Playstation. The reality of the situation is that it was a 2D console built to do 3D titles on the side. Both the Saturn and the Playstation both had a lot of PC ports heavily based on video (such as Rebel Assault II on the Playstation and Myst on the Saturn). When you did have 3D games on the Playstation, you either had a very low line of site (Crash Bandicoot), or you had a very low resolution to make the game playable on PlayStation (Final Fantasy). Both the Playstation and Saturn lacked 3D graphics acceleration, while the N64 was built around it.

[Landos Mustache]

http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/nintend...les-182606.php

Zzzzz.

Zelda is exactly the same as the cube version except with Wii controls

Red steel is the game everyone was excited about until they played it at E3 and the controlls sucked

Metroid has been done a million times... but now you can point at your TV.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by goMac

Well it's true. The GPU wasn't didn't have any 3D acceleration, only 2D. It had a separate chip for vector math that helped it do software 3D graphics.

I mean, if the Playstation is your definition of "built for 3D graphics", the Saturn would have been also "Built for 3D graphics", and was out before the Playstation. The reality of the situation is that it was a 2D console built to do 3D titles on the side. Both the Saturn and the Playstation both had a lot of PC ports heavily based on video (such as Rebel Assault II on the Playstation and Myst on the Saturn). When you did have 3D games on the Playstation, you either had a very low line of site (Crash Bandicoot), or you had a very low resolution to make the game playable on PlayStation (Final Fantasy). Both the Playstation and Saturn lacked 3D graphics acceleration, while the N64 was built around it.

It's true that Sega actually intended for the Saturn to be a 2D powerhouse with crude 3D--supposedly as not to cannibalize their arcade revenue--which is why its 2D performance was far superior the PS, while it was excruciatingly difficult to get good 3D performance.

But Sony had other plans, as the Playstation was designed to get arcade level 3D graphics at home. The actual hardware is similar to Namco's System 1X series, which is why so many games were ported to that console, and which is why the PS ran arcade perfect versions of Ridge Racer and Tekken. It was, therefore, the first home console purely designed for 3D, unlike the Saturn.

The GPU wasn't didn't have any 3D acceleration, only 2D. It had a separate chip for vector math that helped it do software 3D graphics.

Actually, the Playstation boasted a remarkable 3D engine capable of impressive transparency and lighting effects done in hardware. This was something the Saturn lacked.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Actually, the Playstation boasted a remarkable 3D engine capable of impressive transparency and lighting effects done in hardware. This was something the Saturn lacked.

No, it didn't. Playstation was sprite based, just like the Saturn. Like the Saturn, it could do 3D transforms on those sprites. It was a 2D engine that could take 2D sprites and do 3D transformations on them. The only hardware it had for 3D graphics was a vector chip used for the math for 3D graphics. 3D graphics were still rendered in software. This is why in a lot of PS1 games, especially the early ones, 3D objects are often flat objects in a 3D space. It took a lot of optimization before you finally got fully immersive 3D games such as Spyro.

The N64 was basically built for 3D. At best I'd say the PS1 was more of a bridge system, a 2D system with 3D capabilities. It just so happened that 3D caught on so well, by the end of the PS1's lifetime developers were only producing 3D games for the PS1.

[Busemann]

No, it didn't. Playstation was sprite based, just like the Saturn. Like the Saturn, it could do 3D transforms on those sprites. It was a 2D engine that could take 2D sprites and do 3D transformations on them. The only hardware it had for 3D graphics was a vector chip used for the math for 3D graphics. 3D graphics were still rendered in software. This is why in a lot of PS1 games, especially the early ones, 3D objects are often flat objects in a 3D space. It took a lot of optimization before you finally got fully immersive 3D games such as Spyro.

So launch titles like Wipeout, Ridge Racer, Twisted Metal, Tekken, Toshinden & Air Combat weren't actually in 3D? Gotcha.

It just so happened that 3D caught on so well, by the end of the PS1's lifetime developers were only producing 3D games for the PS1.

Dude, it's been long since I've seen so much manure in just one post, but hey, keep 'em coming

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac

No, it didn't. Playstation was sprite based, just like the Saturn. Like the Saturn, it could do 3D transforms on those sprites. It was a 2D engine that could take 2D sprites and do 3D transformations on them. The only hardware it had for 3D graphics was a vector chip used for the math for 3D graphics. 3D graphics were still rendered in software. This is why in a lot of PS1 games, especially the early ones, 3D objects are often flat objects in a 3D space. It took a lot of optimization before you finally got fully immersive 3D games such as Spyro.

The N64 was basically built for 3D. At best I'd say the PS1 was more of a bridge system, a 2D system with 3D capabilities. It just so happened that 3D caught on so well, by the end of the PS1's lifetime developers were only producing 3D games for the PS1.

SPRITE BASED????????????????????????????????????/

LOOOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Tekken was sprite based. Oh, my Lord....................

[Landos Mustache]

Does anyone here other than GoMac consider he technical knowledge accurate or useful? He has been proven wrong so many times in this thread and ones on GMA950 I think he is just talking to admire what he thinks is his great programming knowledge.

Even hawkeye doesn't stand behind him on that dribble.

He is friggin 20, he doesn't own any system other than Nintendo. He has no hands on experience and just thinks he knows everything. Pretty typical for kids right out of school with book knowledge but nothing real world.

Love to see who would hire him.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Does anyone here other than GoMac consider he technical knowledge accurate or useful? He has been proven wrong so many times in this thread and ones on GMA950 I think he is just talking to admire what he thinks is his great programming knowledge.

Even hawkeye doesn't stand behind him on that dribble.

He is friggin 20, he doesn't own any system other than Nintendo. He has no hands on experience and just thinks he knows everything. Pretty typical for kids right out of school with book knowledge but nothing real world.

Or you can go to Wikipedia and read the same thing... up to you...

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Love to see who would hire him.

You'd be really really surprised.

[angelmb]

Red steel is the game everyone was excited about until they played it at E3 and the controlls sucked

Well, it seems Ubi has done some great improvements there…

RED STEEL SWORDFIGHTING FIXED! (Game Informer)

"Not only did the remote replicate our actual sword-slashes, but the recenty unveiled motion sensor in the nunchuck could be thrust foreward for parry attacks"

"As promised, Timing and observation was key to winning the sword-fights and felt just like the mock-saber duels nearly everyone had as kids, so anyone who has dreamed of being a samuri will pick it right up"

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by angelmb

Well, it seems Ubi has done some great improvements there…

RED STEEL SWORDFIGHTING FIXED! (Game Informer)

"Not only did the remote replicate our actual sword-slashes, but the recenty unveiled motion sensor in the nunchuck could be thrust foreward for parry attacks"

"As promised, Timing and observation was key to winning the sword-fights and felt just like the mock-saber duels nearly everyone had as kids, so anyone who has dreamed of being a samuri will pick it right up"

Lets hope so.

The main problem is people HAVE to point the wiimote at the sensor NOT the TV for every game which doesn't make any sense to me. That is not the least bit immersive or intuitive.

Lets pray that will be worked out.

[Landos Mustache]

For anyone who gets off on this sort of thing you can see the whole GoMac Hawkeye collection here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonquil...7594173416441/