[sek929]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

No reason for me to step around the shells. The truth hurts sometimes.

The truth about someone you know solely through an online persona that was banned 5 years ago?

Just stop being a dick.

[Captain Obvious]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

. If she wants to change him, to make him something he is not, it doesn't matter how much he cares about her or wants her back. NO ONE should change who they are to please someone else. If she doesn't love him for who he is

Yeah, good luck with that.
There's no shortage of examples of women trying to shape or guide the behavior of their husband/boyfriend to fit the image or desires they want for them to have.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

That's a load of bull. If she wants to change him, to make him something he is not, it doesn't matter how much he cares about her or wants her back. NO ONE should change who they are to please someone else. If she doesn't love him for who he is, screw her and good riddance.

If Rob has realized he doesn't like the way he deals with people or his attitude towards life, make some changes in how you deal with people or the attitude you take in life. But no matter how hard you try, you can't change who you ARE.

I think that this can be taken too far, though.

If you're happy with who you are, you absolutely need to find someone who's equally happy with who you are.

If you, however, realize in a personal revelation that you need to make some life-changes in order to be a happer/better/successful/whatever person, there's nothing wrong with changing for the better. If you're a mean, sadistic person, and your wife calls you out on that, it might be worth considering that there's a better way to be...

The real problems come when the woman wants to change the man's interests, friends, hobbies, tastes, etc. That's the stuff where you should definitely remain true to yourself.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

Mitch, she left him for a good reason, and I'm sure that he'll never change in her mind. I'm happy for her, she stood up for what she wanted, and due to this, her life will be much better now.

Feel better about yourself?

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I think that this can be taken too far, though.

If you're happy with who you are, you absolutely need to find someone who's equally happy with who you are.

If you, however, realize in a personal revelation that you need to make some life-changes in order to be a happer/better/successful/whatever person, there's nothing wrong with changing for the better. If you're a mean, sadistic person, and your wife calls you out on that, it might be worth considering that there's a better way to be...

The real problems come when the woman wants to change the man's interests, friends, hobbies, tastes, etc. That's the stuff where you should definitely remain true to yourself.

Right, I agree with this.

My wife is correct that we both need to get healthier and work out more. No problem.

My point is that if she wants him to start doing yoga and eating tofu because that's what SHE is now into, that's BS. If she wants him to be something he is not and doesn't want to be, that's BS.

Of course there are some things that our significant others want us to change/improve on. There is nothing wrong with that. I'm talking more about fundamental life/personality changes that the other person doesn't want, but is "forced" into in order to continue to be with that person.

[climber]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

Okay... first off... this is my only post here. I won't be posting again...<

You talk about your lacking a moral compass and your need for change, but in the same post you start off with a statement/promise you KNOW you will never keep. I understand you were only trying to keep the thread from being deleted, and certainly your last post here was motivated by a need to respond to some probable baiting.

I guess the point is that I was taught to never make promises and commitments I have no intention of keeping. Certainly a promise on the internet to a bunch of strangers is relatively insignificant. But I have come to learn that people who fudge and sometimes lie on the little things tend also have the same issues with the more important stuff.

Just something to think about. I am not bothered in the least by you posting again, and I hope the mods allow you a chance to demonstrate the change you say you are interested in. I also wish you and your wife well.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Right, I agree with this.

My wife is correct that we both need to get healthier and work out more. No problem.

My point is that if she wants him to start doing yoga and eating tofu because that's what SHE is now into, that's BS. If she wants him to be something he is not and doesn't want to be, that's BS.

Of course there are some things that our significant others want us to change/improve on. There is nothing wrong with that. I'm talking more about fundamental life/personality changes that the other person doesn't want, but is "forced" into in order to continue to be with that person.

What I really find interesting is that most people would probably agree with this, yet a lot of people gave me loads of sh!t because I literally wrote out a list of things I wouldn't compromise on in a relationship. I was told that it was egotistical of me to assume that I'd meet someone who met my criteria, and that I was dreaming if I thought that anyone would put up with a woman who had a "list of demands" like that.

People need to get back to the idea that you shouldn't just be with anyone, and compromising on anything that's really, passionately important to you is pretty much a guaranteed way to set your relationship on the path to inevitable failure.

In the case of Rob, it seems like his soon-to-be ex is going in a direction that he can't genuinely, truly respect. There's no real reason to pursue getting her back, because it's only going to result in eventual major conflict. He'd be better off waiting until he finds someone who actually is in tune with his own quirks and personality traits.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

In the case of Rob, it seems like his soon-to-be ex is going in a direction that he can't genuinely, truly respect. There's no real reason to pursue getting her back, because it's only going to result in eventual major conflict. He'd be better off waiting until he finds someone who actually is in tune with his own quirks and personality traits.

QFT.

From what we know it seems Rob and Kristen (?) are on two separate paths for their individual lives. Paths which will take them in very different directions. It would have been better if they discovered this before they got married but it seems a divorce will be the best long-term solution for both of them to be able to remain true to their individual selves.

Rob seems to realise some of the things he did wrong in the relationship and if he can use this knowledge to better his future relationships more power to him. But he needs to make those choices to change, or not change, for himself and not for someone else. If he makes changes in his life (attitude, outlook, priorities) and finds someone who will be compatible with those changes then more power to him. But the differences he had with Kristen (?) seem pretty fundamental and, at this point, unfixable. He needs to cut his losses now and go on to become the person he wants to be and then find someone to marry who will be compatible with the new Rob. Anything else would involve Rob not being true to himself, thus not allowing him to be true to any future spouse.

[Railroader]

True love is about sacrifice.

That is all I got to say about that. [/GUMP]

[downinflames68]

I understand she views our lives as two different paths... and I get why you are all suggesting I just drop it, move on, and find someone else who aligns with my life more. And I am not disagreeing with you. I agree with that sentiment, to an extent.

But doesn't that just set you up for ... I mean... if you surround yourself with a circle of friends who agree with you on everything, don't you just sort of become some closed-minded dick? For me, I like her not because of her interests, but because of the type of person she is. Not her hobbies and activities, or her job, but how she thinks, carries herself, her sense of humor, etc. It seems to me those are the types of things that need to be more compatible than jobs/careers/hobbies. So what if she believes in things that I don't believe in? I'm sure many guys don't necessarily believe that their wives should spend so much money on shoes, read romance novels, or some other stereotypical female thing... but that doesn't mean they're incompatible does it?

I'm not sure. I don't know. Obviously.

[smacintush]

Compatibility ultimately is determined by the individual. Some couples who are seemingly opposites get along great while others who seem to be just alike can't get along and vice-versa. I think that it comes down to what kinds of things a person can tolerate. Just because your differences don't bother YOU doesn't mean that they don't bother HER. People are different.

Also, it seems that some women like to store up negative feelings like a capacitor. Whenever you screw up or she sees something about you she don't like, it goes in a special spot in the back of her brain where it eats at her quietly for months…years…decades. She doesn't talk much about it, or she does a little, but not enough for you to realize how much it matters.

Eventually, the capacitor pops and blows out her love circuits. By then it's too late, and often you never even REALLY find out the real reasons for it. Hell, she may not even know the real reasons herself.

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Also, it seems that some women like to store up negative feelings like a capacitor. Whenever you screw up or she sees something about you she don't like, it goes in a special spot in the back of her brain where it eats at her quietly for months…years…decades. She doesn't talk much about it, or she does a little, but not enough for you to realize how much it matters.

Eventually, the capacitor pops and blows out her love circuits. By then it's too late, and often you never even REALLY find out the real reasons for it. Hell, she may not even know the real reasons herself.

Finally, women in terms I can understand!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

But doesn't that just set you up for ... I mean... if you surround yourself with a circle of friends who agree with you on everything, don't you just sort of become some closed-minded dick? For me, I like her not because of her interests, but because of the type of person she is. Not her hobbies and activities, or her job, but how she thinks, carries herself, her sense of humor, etc. It seems to me those are the types of things that need to be more compatible than jobs/careers/hobbies. So what if she believes in things that I don't believe in?

In my experience, while this sort of sentiment is OK for acquaintances, it's not really very good for your close, immediate circle (wife, friends). Trying to set aside that incompatibility only leads to strife further on down the track.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

In my experience, while this sort of sentiment is OK for acquaintances, it's not really very good for your close, immediate circle (wife, friends). Trying to set aside that incompatibility only leads to strife further on down the track.

This.

If you surround yourself exclusively with people who agree with you on everything, you lack real awareness of the world around you, and life just becomes kind of...boring.

Applying this to your spouse, however, is a different story - this is someone you're planning on spending the rest of your life with. You're asking for trouble and constant conflict if you think that it's a good idea to marry someone who is so divergent in even the most basic things (politics and religion, specifically).

It's okay for you to you have different hobbies or tastes in movies and food, although even that kind of thing can cause conflict. But when you're talking about fundamental differences in basic beliefs about life, it's a different story.

Think about it - what if you have kids? What kind of beliefs will you raise them in? If your wife is a pagan or a new-ager and you're a militant atheist (which Rob appears to be), what will you do? Secretly mock your wife's beliefs behind her back to your own kids? What if she's a hardcore liberal Democrat and you're a hardcore conservative Republican? How will you explain a particular political policy to your kids when they ask you what it's about?

How will you really feel about voting if you know your spouse's vote is going to cancel out your own? If you're a Christian, how will you feel about the knowledge that your spouse isn't destined for the same afterlife as you? If you're a militant atheist, how could you possibly truly respect your spouse when you're unable to actually respect anyone who believes in a higher power (e.g. mocking them and saying they're spineless, brainwashed, and "believe in fairy tales")?

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

How will you really feel about voting if you know your spouse's vote is going to cancel out your own? If you're a Christian, how will you feel about the knowledge that your spouse isn't destined for the same afterlife as you? If you're a militant atheist, how could you possibly truly respect your spouse when you're unable to actually respect anyone who believes in a higher power (e.g. mocking them and saying they're spineless, brainwashed, and "believe in fairy tales")?

I don't mock those people anymore. I've found that the win lose mentality of arguing only further entrenches religious people in their belief system, so they have an even smaller chance of ever being reasonable. Mocking people can be fun, but it isn't healthy. It makes your life focus on the negative aspects of others, which is easy to do, but ... ultimately even if you do prove them wrong, you've pissed them off because you hurt their pride, something that most people won't forgive you for very easily, which can come back to bite you later on. I'm trying to stop mocking anyone, for any reason.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

I don't mock those people anymore. I've found that the win lose mentality of arguing only further entrenches religious people in their belief system, so they have an even smaller chance of ever being reasonable.

It's this kind of thing that shows that you still don't respect religious types.

Religious people can be reasonable. There are plenty of reasonable Christians out there. Simply because you've had bad experiences in the past with a small subset of the world's religious population does not mean that all religious people are brainwashed, misled, sheeple, unreasonable, or anything else akin to "stupid".

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

It's this kind of thing that shows that you still don't respect religious types..

That depends on your definition of "respect".
At least he is very tolerant. The "respect" that some people expect for their different opinion is just expecting too much.

-t

[turtle777]

Btw, FWIW, I hope the mods take note of the new Rob and offer him a chance to stay around.

-t

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Btw, FWIW, I hope the mods take note of the new Rob and offer him a chance to stay around.

I concur.

[residentEvil]

having lived with several long term GFs over the years, and obviously breaking up since there has been more than one, i feel these are divorces. and in some states, it can be legally bound common law, etc, etc and could have been messy. but anyway...

i tried for opposites, that didn't work. i tried for similar, that didn't work. i would also like to point out that 1 "divorce" was caused by her, and the most resent "divorce" caused by me.

i, like most people, have issues and didn't do well with communication. i'm very moody and stress over things that i wouldn't have to if i would be open/honest about them. i would become so isolated, closed...not sure how to describe it. basically, not a good friend, companion or lover.

currently, i've been with someone now for 6 months (as of tuesday!!!! woo hoo) and this has been by far the best 6 months of my life. there is something very different this time. we are opposite on many things (religion being the biggest) and alike on many things (sports, activities). but what makes everything work, is that we talk about those opposites so that we can each understand one another better. our 2nd date, we cleared the air as it were. religion, kids, politics, foods, you name it, we talked about it. a pretty "heavy" 2nd date.

and 6 months later, we still talk about all those things. we didn't want to start something that would end like our past relationships. we were up front, no games, no holds barred take each other for what we are or not. can we live with a issue or not? can we look past our faults? can we look past, well, the past? can we agree to disagree?
i still get closed/distant at times, but i work it more quickly. i'm able to talk to her about it, even stupid crap. i will tell her about this even. she isn't changing me but i realized i need to change to have a true, honest relationship. i'm a better person for it.

guess that isn't much help for you; but i think something that can be taken away from it is that being honest with yourself and communicate even the stupidest/dumbest crap, goes a long long way to happiness.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

It's this kind of thing that shows that you still don't respect religious types.

Religious people can be reasonable. There are plenty of reasonable Christians out there. Simply because you've had bad experiences in the past with a small subset of the world's religious population does not mean that all religious people are brainwashed, misled, sheeple, unreasonable, or anything else akin to "stupid".

Freudian slip, my friend. I meant reasonable as in a reasonable discussion, instead of just closing ears and repeating things you've heard elsewhere. Sadly though, that is really what most religious people do if you engage them. Anyway, point is... instead of mocking people... you can reach out and touch more people if you are coming at them from common ground, and not pointing out their fallacies.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by residentEvil 

currently, i've been with someone now for 6 months (as of tuesday!!!! woo hoo) and this has been by far the best 6 months of my life. there is something very different this time. we are opposite on many things (religion being the biggest) and alike on many things (sports, activities). but what makes everything work, is that we talk about those opposites so that we can each understand one another better. our 2nd date, we cleared the air as it were. religion, kids, politics, foods, you name it, we talked about it. a pretty "heavy" 2nd date.

Pft. I don't even wait for the second date to get into heavy conversation. Unless I'm going on a date with a guy just to get some, I might as well get the big stuff out of the way, so we don't waste much of the other person's time.

Almost six months for me, too - and we've been living together since like the fourth week of the relationship. It's worked out spectacularly so far, because (a) we agree on things, (b) I'm medicated, and (c) we communicate about stuff instead of hiding it until there's some knock-down, drag-out argument of the century over small things.

[abbaZaba]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Pft. I don't even wait for the second date to get into heavy conversation. Unless I'm going on a date with a guy just to get some, I might as well get the big stuff out of the way, so we don't waste much of the other person's time.

you remind me of this girl that was in our college newspaper. she started making questionnaires and when she was out at the bars, if a guy came up to her and started talking to her she would immediately whip out this questionnaire and make him fill it out so that she knew all the answers to her "important" questions right away so that the dude would not waste her time. then I guess she would review it and see if she liked the answers. I guess she actually got a few other folks to go along with this idea but, lord almighty, if a girl did this to me at a bar I would rip it up in her face and throw it all around her even if she was the hottest person in outer space. talk about completely taking the fun out of meeting people.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

But doesn't that just set you up for ... I mean... if you surround yourself with a circle of friends who agree with you on everything, don't you just sort of become some closed-minded dick? For me, I like her not because of her interests, but because of the type of person she is.

Yes, but this is only a `state' and not a path for development. You seem to have had a problem with the esoterical stuff Kristen got interested in. (I probably also would have had a problem if my wife/gf did that.) And if you don't really respect a side of her that she thinks is very much central to who she is, then this is a problem. Even if you don't think it's such a big deal. (Actually, this may make matters worse, because you don't give this part of her the significance she sees in it.)

Needless to say, all this mind acrobatics won't help you figure out a way to be with her again.

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by abbaZaba 

you remind me of this girl that was in our college newspaper. she started making questionnaires and when she was out at the bars, if a guy came up to her and started talking to her she would immediately whip out this questionnaire and make him fill it out so that she knew all the answers to her "important" questions right away so that the dude would not waste her time. then I guess she would review it and see if she liked the answers. I guess she actually got a few other folks to go along with this idea but, lord almighty, if a girl did this to me at a bar I would rip it up in her face and throw it all around her even if she was the hottest person in outer space. talk about completely taking the fun out of meeting people.

I just put up my requirements on my OKCupid people and told people not to bother if they didn't meet them.

Boyfriend met every single requirement, except the one about age (he's about a year and a half younger than me) and Star Trek (he prefers Star Wars, but his opinion is biased since he's only seen a few TNG episodes at most).

Then again, my list of requirements consisted of things I absolutely would not bend on - particularly political, religious, and social views. If I were actually able to pick up guys IRL, I wouldn't whip out a printed questionnaire or anything; I'd just bring out the big topics before the night was over and see how he responded.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Btw, FWIW, I hope the mods take note of the new Rob and offer him a chance to stay around.

-t

Yes, I agree too, but for that to work the people who really still have it in for him (a couple have posted in this thread) need to seriously STFU. And I mean don't talk to him and don't keep incessantly trying to provoke him.

[Captain Obvious]

Interesting. I thought you guys would have coddled Cash more.
More interesting is that most of you seem to be more cynical than me when it comes to this topic. I hardly think what did these two in was that they didn't have enough in common. That was evident from the get go but they still liked each other.

I think they were ill prepared and naive when they entered into the marriage. More importantly though it sounds like they didn't address their problems when they arose and the relationship suffered from atrophy and a lack of respect until it was dead.

I actually think that suggesting that political and religious harmony is a necessary component of a good marriage is pretty ass backwards. Maybe if you live out in the sticks or are some kind of bible toter that may be needed but in the world I live in those things are maybefound in half the couples I know. I think so long as you can respect the other person's beliefs and don't try to convert them those differences are negligible. The way some of you posed your view on this it sounds like you're a step away from saying only people of the same race should marry.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

I actually think that suggesting that political and religious harmony is a necessary component of a good marriage is pretty ass backwards. Maybe if you live out in the sticks or are some kind of bible toter that may be needed but in the world I live in those things are maybefound in half the couples I know.

...And statistics tell us that half the couples you know will end up divorced.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

I just put up my requirements on my OKCupid people and told people not to bother if they didn't meet them.

Boyfriend met every single requirement, except the one about age (he's about a year and a half younger than me) and Star Trek (he prefers Star Wars, but his opinion is biased since he's only seen a few TNG episodes at most).

Then again, my list of requirements consisted of things I absolutely would not bend on - particularly political, religious, and social views. If I were actually able to pick up guys IRL, I wouldn't whip out a printed questionnaire or anything; I'd just bring out the big topics before the night was over and see how he responded.

Ahh hahahaha

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

I actually think that suggesting that political and religious harmony is a necessary component of a good marriage is pretty ass backwards. Maybe if you live out in the sticks or are some kind of bible toter that may be needed but in the world I live in those things are maybefound in half the couples I know. I think so long as you can respect the other person's beliefs and don't try to convert them those differences are negligible. The way some of you posed your view on this it sounds like you're a step away from saying only people of the same race should marry.

Really? I disagree. I'm a Christian, and I couldn't accept that someone I deeply loved was not only destined for the short end of the stick in the afterlife, but unwilling to consider the alternative.

I'm also very passionate about my political beliefs. I couldn't possibly truly respect someone who believed in socialism, abortion, and a general left-leaning viewpoint on socioeconomic policy (among other things). I feel far too strongly about my beliefs to say "oh, it's totally fine that you completely disagree with my stance on basic, fundamental issues faced by America".

I dated a far left liberal Democrat for two and a half years. I got my fill of someone who doesn't agree with my religious, social, philosophical, political, and economical views. After I ended that relationship, I knew for a fact I absolutely could not spend my life with someone who was so diametrically opposed to everything I stood for and believed in.

Perhaps if you have weak, wishy-washy, quasi-opinions and care more about pop culture than politics, you can get along just fine with someone who's as spineless as yourself. I doubt that those who are passionate about their beliefs and opinions, however, could tolerate a lifelong partnership with someone who couldn't agree with them on even the most basic issues, like belief in God and who you're voting for in the 2012 presidential election.

I should add that financial habits are a big one, too. If you end up with someone who is your complete opposite when it comes to personal finance, your relationship will be a constant uphill battle, plagued with arguments over everything money related, from what car you should buy (and when) to what brand of cereal you should buy at the supermarket - I know this from firsthand experience.

[Doofy]

Shif speaketh the truth.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

That's probably because you were both pretty immature?

greg

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

That's probably because you were both pretty immature?

greg

Because I'm passionate about what I believe in? We were just horrendously wrong for each other. He met a really nice woman about a month after broke up, and they married a year later. She's due in September for the birth of their first child.

We were just incompatible in every possible way. It's the biggest reason why the relationship didn't work out. Again - if you're apathetic about politics and religion, then it's probably not going to matter much whether or not your significant other holds the same views as you (if you have any real opinions at all, that is). If you're vehemently passionate about your beliefs, however, you will find lifelong commitment with someone on the same page as you much easier that if you were with someone who disagreed with you on everything.

Some of my closest friends are liberal or atheist or whatever else - I might disagree with them, but I still respect them--but I wouldn't consider marrying any of them (were I attracted to them, that is). Marriage is a whole different story than friendship or even dating.

I couldn't be with someone who fundamentally agreed with me but was apathetic about politics and religion, either. It just wouldn't work in the long-term. Love, unfortunately, is not guaranteed to conquer all.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

Interesting. I thought you guys would have coddled Cash more.

I'm coddle-able?

I think they were ill prepared and naive when they entered into the marriage. More importantly though it sounds like they didn't address their problems when they arose and the relationship suffered from atrophy and a lack of respect until it was dead.

Disagree. I mean, yeah, I'm still confused... but... as far as I know, our marriage was BADASS until school started to get hardcore. First year was easy, I had so many transfer credits that I still had a lot of free time. But starting sophmore year, it got pretty serious sometimes, and I'd have to stay at school until 10 or 11pm, and Kristin hated it. Then, things were fine again in the summer, and then Junior year, things got really really competitive. High octane, alcohol and caffiene fueled binges late into the night working on things, group projects, working with companies, things just got nuts and our relationship got rocky because I wasn't home as much. Then, in the summer, it again improved. Senior year was okay the first semester, but second semester turned into a cluster **** of work. I was sleeping in my car some nights to save time, and most other nights I was there until midnight or 2am. That is when things really started to fall apart.

I guess I just thought things would be fixable, after this semester. That being said... I'm not really sure I'd take her back, considering she dumped me during my last semester of school. It's kind of a ****ed up thing to do.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by shifuimam 

Because I'm passionate about what I believe in? We were just horrendously wrong for each other. He met a really nice woman about a month after broke up, and they married a year later. She's due in September for the birth of their first child.

We were just incompatible in every possible way. It's the biggest reason why the relationship didn't work out. Again - if you're apathetic about politics and religion, then it's probably not going to matter much whether or not your significant other holds the same views as you (if you have any real opinions at all, that is). If you're vehemently passionate about your beliefs, however, you will find lifelong commitment with someone on the same page as you much easier that if you were with someone who disagreed with you on everything.

Some of my closest friends are liberal or atheist or whatever else - I might disagree with them, but I still respect them--but I wouldn't consider marrying any of them (were I attracted to them, that is). Marriage is a whole different story than friendship or even dating.

I couldn't be with someone who fundamentally agreed with me but was apathetic about politics and religion, either. It just wouldn't work in the long-term. Love, unfortunately, is not guaranteed to conquer all.

Hmmmm... maybe because you're the female version of the "old Rob" and tend to freak out if someone comes to a different conclusion than you do?

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Face it Rob: you're just not going to work well with this.

I mean, some people can do it - the Republican marrying the Democrat, the Catholic marrying the Protestant, the Jewish girl marrying the Christian guy, etc. etc. - but I truly believe it takes a special kind of personality to work through these sort of fundamental and/or ideological differences. It takes not "rising to the bait", accepting things for the way they are and realizing that's just "how it is", and a willingness to shut your own mouth and nod and smile when someone else says something you just know is "wrong/stupid/controversial". Amongst other things.

Note how you probably don't fit into any of those characterizations.

greg

[shifuimam]

Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton 

Hmmmm... maybe because you're the female version of the "old Rob" and tend to freak out if someone comes to a different conclusion than you do?

Maybe. I just feel strongly about things and defend my position on them.

Your second quote makes it sound as though those of us who want to have a relationship specifically with someone on the same page on major issues (politics, religion, etc.) is somehow weaker or less mature than someone who has no problem being with a person who disagrees with them on anything and everything. This seems a little overly judgmental. It takes a very special and rare kind of personality in both people in the relationship to be able to work through ideological differences in a lifelong committed monogamous romantic relationship - and there's nothing wrong with you if you choose to hold your spouse to the same standards (which inevitably come from your beliefs and opinions) to which you hold yourself. In fact, I'd say it takes a tremendous amount of maturity and patience to set standards for what you want and to stick to them - but the payoff in the end is fantastic.

I really find it interesting that people are quick to attack me because I know exactly what I want and am unwilling to compromise my standards just so I can get some. I know that assertive women are really scary...fortunately, there are those who find such an attitude to be attractive. Which is why such a person is compatible with me.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

I think they were ill prepared and naive when they entered into the marriage. More importantly though it sounds like they didn't address their problems when they arose and the relationship suffered from atrophy and a lack of respect until it was dead.

That is *exactly* what happened with me and my first (and so far only) wife. We got married and didn't really work at the relationship and then too many other non-marriage things got in the way and then things fell apart and I moved out. A marriage takes work and neither one of us ever put as much effort into our marriage as we should have done. It was tough mentally/psychologically for a long time but I am much better prepared for the next marriage.

As for my ex, we see each other about once every 12-18 months at some social gathering. (We have a lot of the same friends.) She just got remarried recently and is quite content wit her life and her new husband. We are amicable and she even considered inviting me to the wedding but I had a family gathering to attend so I declined. I have her as one of my references for all the job applications I am doing. She was more than willing to do it and having a NASA research scientist as a reference--she is not a true rocket scientist but pretty damn close: her stuff goes up in low-orbit sounding- and weather-rockets--looks might nice on my resume.

[Timo]

Though I have to hold my nose, I agree with Señor Obvious

Originally Posted by Captain Obvious 

I hardly think what did these two in was that they didn't have enough in common. That was evident from the get go but they still liked each other.

Yep. There was a spark. I imagine she found him funny and relevant, and he found her beautiful and interesting.

I think they were ill prepared and naive when they entered into the marriage. More importantly though it sounds like they didn't address their problems when they arose and the relationship suffered from atrophy and a lack of respect until it was dead.

Well, being naive and ill prepared isn't necessarily the problem ... or plenty of things could never get started, never mind marriages. The problems arise, of course, when you don't deal with the parts of a union that aren't funny, relevant, beautiful or interesting. Again, I agree with O, though not with the harsh sheen.

And this:

I actually think that suggesting that political and religious harmony is a necessary component of a good marriage is pretty ass backwards. Maybe if you live out in the sticks or are some kind of bible toter that may be needed but in the world I live in those things are maybefound in half the couples I know. I think so long as you can respect the other person's beliefs and don't try to convert them those differences are negligible. The way some of you posed your view on this it sounds like you're a step away from saying only people of the same race should marry.

QFT, although the know-it-all snark is a bit overreaching.

***

I don't see much in this thread to agree with. I see at lot of analysis of Rob's situation, words, whatever that's really just schadenfreude and veiled attacks. I don't know if Rob can patch this up with his wife, but you don't either. Ironically, the only people who do know is Rob and his wife. The rest of this is just a parlor game.

That being said, I did have a few reactions. But first, my credentials. I am a midwesterner, so while that doesn't make me Rob's doppelgänger it does render him, perhaps, more legible to me than to others. (For example, I always found Rob's driving rants to be exactly spot on, with the caveat that the strident know-it-all tone, combined with the faith in the reflexes, perception and vigor of youth was pretty grating.) And from that I gather he's serious, even remorseful (though frankly I think you could take that up a few notches, Rob -- I'm not getting the "I'm sorry for what's happened" vibe enough from your posts) and -- most importantly -- reflexive about what's happened in the context of wanting to honor the commitment he made.

I could be wrong, of course.

My other credential is that while I survived design school it also destroyed my relationship with the girl I lived with. Fellow classmates called our school the Graduate School of Divorce. I don't know if it helps you any, Rob, but your story's pretty common in that design school is quite incompatible with all but the most protected of relationships. I wasn't mature enough to balance school and my relationship, so I have great sympathy for what happened to you as well. I certainly didn't set out to **** it up, but there it went.

Getting some advice on how to fix the relationship is a good idea, but "winning her back" is the wrong track. You see, marriage is -- for lack of a better word -- work. Like design, it benefits from attention, toying, iterations and constant attention. It's almost like there are three people: you, her and the marriage.

And yes you sacrifice for it, give up some of your autonomy and even identity, but not so much that you're a zombie, but not so little so that it doesn't hurt. You do it because you love. You do it not because your "compatible" but because there's someone there who's got your back, who is your partner in crime, who accepts you for who you are, which you ironically give up a little to get. The cliche is true: a good relationship makes you want to be a better man ... so Rob, you got that going for you.

But you haven't really put the pieces together regarding her. WHY should this be salvaged, from her POV. WHY does she, or should she, or could she, like you NOW. Was this (ever) a good idea, or has this crisis revealed that you don't, in fact, have each other's backs? I don't know. But I do know you got to do more work putting yourself in her shoes, and seeing what you look like -- not in terms of what's happened, but in terms of what could.

My guess is that she's off looking for "truth" -- truth she thought she'd found in marrying you -- now in other arenas. Sucks for you. You gotta find out why you guys worked in the first place, or find out why you didn't, and go from there.

Good luck.

[Captain Obvious]

I am hardly apathetic about politics but the value of one's opinion and voice is dependent one's power to influence the system. In the real world its not your vote that matters but your connections to the political structure. The cumulative effect of a lifetime of votes in a booth pales in comparison to what can be accomplished at one dinner with the right people. You can passionately yip about shared beliefs all you like at the dinner table with your spouse but I have no interest in making that sort of mental masturbation a requirement for the next 50 years much less to use it as one of the cornerstones of a relationship.

As far as religion goes I understand its value as a social tool but I am also smart enough to know that those who cling to it do so because its a psychological crutch. If you want to go through the motions of rituals as part of rites of passage or to use it to build a sense of community then my wife can knock herself out. Its even a good vehicle for instilling values in small children. But if you want ME to buy into the idea that eternal salvation lies in the worship of some deity then you are going to hear a lot of laughing.

If someone believes those are the bonds that hold together a marriage then they are better off staying in whatever sheltered homogenous community they reside in because mixing in with the rest of the world is going to be a cold slap in the face of how antiquated those ideas are. Mixing ideology and reality never comes out as clean and simple as the passionate unchallenged rhetoric in your head.

So to summarize: Its nice if you agree on those points but it certainly is not required for a life long relationship. I actually think putting too much weight on Cash not sharing this girl's newage yoga interests is doing a disservice. Those things sound more like an escape than a problem. I don't even think its a legitimate direction she is taking but rather something she could pour her energy into so as to not be overly invested in what she saw was a failing marriage. He should have acknowledged it and maybe not mocked it but that whole part of the story sounds like a symptom rather than a factor in their divorce.

[abbaZaba]

Originally Posted by Timo 

Though I have to hold my nose, I agree with Señor Obvious


Yep. There was a spark. I imagine she found him funny and relevant, and he found her beautiful and interesting.



Well, being naive and ill prepared isn't necessarily the problem ... or plenty of things could never get started, never mind marriages. The problems arise, of course, when you don't deal with the parts of a union that aren't funny, relevant, beautiful or interesting. Again, I agree with O, though not with the harsh sheen.

And this:



QFT, although the know-it-all snark is a bit overreaching.

***

I don't see much in this thread to agree with. I see at lot of analysis of Rob's situation, words, whatever that's really just schadenfreude and veiled attacks. I don't know if Rob can patch this up with his wife, but you don't either. Ironically, the only people who do know is Rob and his wife. The rest of this is just a parlor game.

That being said, I did have a few reactions. But first, my credentials. I am a midwesterner, so while that doesn't make me Rob's doppelgänger it does render him, perhaps, more legible to me than to others. (For example, I always found Rob's driving rants to be exactly spot on, with the caveat that the strident know-it-all tone, combined with the faith in the reflexes, perception and vigor of youth was pretty grating.) And from that I gather he's serious, even remorseful (though frankly I think you could take that up a few notches, Rob -- I'm not getting the "I'm sorry for what's happened" vibe enough from your posts) and -- most importantly -- reflexive about what's happened in the context of wanting to honor the commitment he made.

I could be wrong, of course.

My other credential is that while I survived design school it also destroyed my relationship with the girl I lived with. Fellow classmates called our school the Graduate School of Divorce. I don't know if it helps you any, Rob, but your story's pretty common in that design school is quite incompatible with all but the most protected of relationships. I wasn't mature enough to balance school and my relationship, so I have great sympathy for what happened to you as well. I certainly didn't set out to **** it up, but there it went.

Getting some advice on how to fix the relationship is a good idea, but "winning her back" is the wrong track. You see, marriage is -- for lack of a better word -- work. Like design, it benefits from attention, toying, iterations and constant attention. It's almost like there are three people: you, her and the marriage.

And yes you sacrifice for it, give up some of your autonomy and even identity, but not so much that you're a zombie, but not so little so that it doesn't hurt. You do it because you love. You do it not because your "compatible" but because there's someone there who's got your back, who is your partner in crime, who accepts you for who you are, which you ironically give up a little to get. The cliche is true: a good relationship makes you want to be a better man ... so Rob, you got that going for you.

But you haven't really put the pieces together regarding her. WHY should this be salvaged, from her POV. WHY does she, or should she, or could she, like you NOW. Was this (ever) a good idea, or has this crisis revealed that you don't, in fact, have each other's backs? I don't know. But I do know you got to do more work putting yourself in her shoes, and seeing what you look like -- not in terms of what's happened, but in terms of what could.

My guess is that she's off looking for "truth" -- truth she thought she'd found in marrying you -- now in other arenas. Sucks for you. You gotta find out why you guys worked in the first place, or find out why you didn't, and go from there.

Good luck.

I am sorry. actually I'm not **** that. this is the best advice that's been posted so far. I feel like you may have made some decisions in your mind before your first post but this is the most sound advice I've seen so far in this thread. take heed.

[AKcrab]

A thread from Ca$h is open more than 24hrs...
I find myself enjoying (and agreeing with) what Captain Obvious has been saying...

I think my head just exploded.

[downinflames68]

Originally Posted by Timo 

My other credential is that while I survived design school it also destroyed my relationship with the girl I lived with. Fellow classmates called our school the Graduate School of Divorce. I don't know if it helps you any, Rob, but your story's pretty common in that design school is quite incompatible with all but the most protected of relationships. I wasn't mature enough to balance school and my relationship, so I have great sympathy for what happened to you as well. I certainly didn't set out to **** it up, but there it went.

Sucks, that. They don't tell you that when you start going to school. I knew school was going to be hard. I knew it was going to be rough, and expensive. I just didn't know it would cost this. At all. And what's ****ed up is that at the end of it... I didn't even care much. Like... she told me she wanted a divorce, and initially I wasn't that upset. I was just sorta "really? Wow. Really?" which turned into "I don't want to do this" which turned into "If this will make you happy", but it all seemed so distant. It feels alien.

Now... I know guys have a tendency to view previous relationships in rose colored glasses... and I have done so in the past, but I don't think I'm doing that much. I realize how spotty/rough it was during the past few years while I was in school. It sucked. However, I still valued it, and didn't know the relationship was this weak. I thought we'd get through it, move somewhere, get to know each other all over again, and life would be wonderful. I expected that to happen. It just didn't turn out like that, thus far.

I guess what really strikes me is that being away from her for the past 1.5 months... I've realized what I've lost. I've realized the single most important aspect of my life is leaving. The most beautiful, and most influential part of my life, is trying to end. And... although I readily admit the problems and potential work it would be to salvage, I don't want to give up. You guys may not know me terribly well, and yeah, I have changed a lot, but I am still really ****ing stubborn, and I rarely quit or give up on things. I feel like letting someone like this just walk away is... wrong. I feel like I should do something, now that I know what I know, but it seems my only option IS to let her go. The more you flail about, the faster you sink.

And yes you sacrifice for it, give up some of your autonomy and even identity, but not so much that you're a zombie, but not so little so that it doesn't hurt. You do it because you love. You do it not because your "compatible" but because there's someone there who's got your back, who is your partner in crime, who accepts you for who you are, which you ironically give up a little to get. The cliche is true: a good relationship makes you want to be a better man ... so Rob, you got that going for you.

Yeah, but she has always wanted to change me. And she has, quite a bit. She's shown me all sorts of things I hadn't thought of before, pushed my life in an actual direction, and, there were so many truly wonderful moments. Then again, there are aspects of me taht she can't stand... that I flip off H2 owners, for example. It drives her insane. I try not to do it when she's around... but it's a complete reaction. Little things like that, she hates.

But you haven't really put the pieces together regarding her. WHY should this be salvaged, from her POV. WHY does she, or should she, or could she, like you NOW. Was this (ever) a good idea, or has this crisis revealed that you don't, in fact, have each other's backs? I don't know. But I do know you got to do more work putting yourself in her shoes, and seeing what you look like -- not in terms of what's happened, but in terms of what could.

Yeah, I'm struggling with that. I guess the only real reason why it should be salvaged, from her perspective, is because I've discovered a lot over the past six weeks. I understand what I was doing wrong, and how I neglected the relationship and focused on school. I have discovered how to actually listen to people... I'm not good at it... but I am getting better. And I would think that having a failed marriage so early in life would suck, so fixing something with someone who knows you well for the past 7 years would be a plus. I don't know. I was damn successful in school, I work hard and I'm going to be successful, I don't hit, I don't cheat. >shrug< I haven't really figured this part out. I see her on sunday, I have no idea what to say yet.

My guess is that she's off looking for "truth" -- truth she thought she'd found in marrying you -- now in other arenas. Sucks for you. You gotta find out why you guys worked in the first place, or find out why you didn't, and go from there Good luck.

That sounds reasonable. Thanks man. I definitely appreciate your input.

[Doofy]

You're only hearing what you want to hear Rob.

[Spheric Harlot]

Timo rocks.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Timo rocks.

Time might rock, but my money's still on the yoga teacher nailing her. I'd make book on it.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Time might rock, but my money's still on the yoga teacher nailing her. I'd make book on it.

That doesn't really change things, though.

[torsoboy]

Originally Posted by downinflames68 

I'm not really sure I'd take her back, considering she dumped me during my last semester of school. It's kind of a ****ed up thing to do.

Same old Rob. It's not about YOU... that is why you are in your situation. You still sound self-centered and arrogant in your posts. Even with your "I'm so much better now" lip-service.

You ruined it for yourself. Gaming, drinking, sleeping in your car, hanging our with "friends" instead of your wife? You can blame her all you want, but from what you have written here, you did it to yourself. It doesn't matter what semester of school you were in, she was sick of your crap, and so she left.

You can kid yourself all you want about being not really sure you'd "take her back", but that is just more self-loving going on with you. She isn't asking you to take her back, you are the one begging for advice on how to get her back.

Best advice in this thread... move on.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

That doesn't really change things, though.

Well, yes. As we can see from Rob's last post, Timo's giving him false hope.

It's done. There ain't no coming back from this.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by torsoboy 

Best advice in this thread... move on.

Yup.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Doofy 

Well, yes. As we can see from Rob's last post, Timo's giving him false hope.

It's done. There ain't no coming back from this.

true.