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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Why do we (all humans) have to go to school?

Why do we (all humans) have to go to school?
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SamuraiDL
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Sep 28, 2004, 12:00 AM
 
MY name is Drew, some of you know me as a troll who has been banned twice and even had my IP address once banned, yet made a strong comeback through a series of pleas to demonhood. Some of you think Im a looser, some of you (manofsteal) enjoy some of my wittier posts. However I am Musician, it is my passion in life. It is all that i want to do. However it has recently dawned on me that i have completely disregarded education as something for those chumps over there, those people concerned with conforming to society, and following the norm ie. high-school collage graduate work good job ect. ect. However now as I look back at my checkered educational past, high-school diploma, I cant help but think... Have I not done the work that will be necessary to feel like an accomplished helpful society driven person. I really want to go to this school is switzerland that offers amazing ma and ph.d programs in communication taught by professors such as David Lynch and DJ Spooky. However... no ba here. Have i limited my horizons? Do I need to go to school? What do people think?
     
SamuraiDL  (op)
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Sep 28, 2004, 12:02 AM
 
I forgot to add that i am 21 and have been out of school and teaching at a daycare center for 3 years.
     
Zimphire
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:21 AM
 
How good of a musician are you?
     
mdc
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:24 AM
 
i don't think it is ever too late to start studying. okay, maybe there can be a *too* late, but you get what i am trying to say.

if you want to get to switzerland but you need your ba then i think you should start looking around locally for a place where you can build your way up to your ba from what you currently have.

i was out of "studying" for 3 years before i went back. i am currently studying right now. i left school, did my mcse/cne/etc, worked for three years, then started studying again. i am going to finish my bachelors sooner or later.

it's never too late.
     
SamuraiDL  (op)
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:27 AM
 
I would say I am fluent in both reading and writing music, it takes a little longer to write then the read, but I have been studying Jazz for about 6 years, and classical for about ten or twelve, been playing since i was 6. Went to a well known Music High school. Have played in numerous groups, mostly jazz combos, but am currently writing and playing all original jazz and funk with my latest project, Luggage. I dont want to toot my own horn, but I am very good, because thats where my passion is.
     
SamuraiDL  (op)
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:28 AM
 
yeah, but I think my main question is, why do we need to go to school to be "educated" ?
     
itai195
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:33 AM
 
We go to school to learn how to learn and to learn to appreciate a lifetime of learning
     
Oisín
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:34 AM
 
Why we go to school?

So that we can come here and post hyper-intelligent things in the Lounge and not look like we're uneducated.

No, wait...




(P.S.: What is a "ba"?)
     
itai195
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:37 AM
 
Originally posted by Oisn:
(P.S.: What is a "ba"?)
I think it's one of those expensive toilet paper brands
     
Xeo
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Sep 28, 2004, 01:39 AM
 
Originally posted by Ois�n:
Why we go to school?

So that we can come here and post hyper-intelligent things in the Lounge and not look like we're uneducated.

No, wait...




(P.S.: What is a "ba"?)
Bachelor of Arts
     
cszar2001
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Sep 28, 2004, 02:41 AM
 
Originally posted by SamuraiDL:
yeah, but I think my main question is, why do we need to go to school to be "educated" ?
You don`t have to go to school to get an education.
If you aquire your knowledge in a different way it`s difficult to make any kind of comparison to the more "traditional" approach because of the lack of a grading system - that`s all.
"Microsoft is a cross between the Borg and the Ferengi. Unfortunately, they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to do their programming." Simon Slavin

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gethigh
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Sep 28, 2004, 03:22 AM
 
Schools are undeniably "conforming factories." Recess is a precursor to the coffee break. The early morning classes just get you ready for waking up early. And the textbooks are laden with bias. Go and compare history books between different countries and see the different perspectives or omission of events. (Kind of reminds me of that Simpson's episode with the time-machine toaster where Homer ends up in a "ReNedification" center for using profanities).

But here's the main reason for why we go to schools: They are accredited so you get a nice diploma and be recognized by your peers and employers.

Otherwise, a person can learn just as much or more than a traditionally trained pupil without school. You can just read books and/or pay professionals to tutor you in your trade.
     
xenu
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Sep 28, 2004, 03:57 AM
 
So your parents can get rid of you for several hours a day, 5 days a week.

It's just a big babysitter.
Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion - Steven Weinberg.
     
demograph68
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Sep 28, 2004, 04:05 AM
 
Originally posted by gethigh:
Go and compare history books between different countries and see the different perspectives or omission of events.
It should be a part of the curriculum to read Howard Zinn's A People's History Of The United States Of America. Instead, we are raised to believe of how "great" a man Christopher Columbus was, as well as similar BS.
     
milkmanchris
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Sep 28, 2004, 05:14 AM
 
Ive thought this for years.

I got to do the job i always wanted, all be it after going to college and university. Problem was when i started i was 21 years old surrounded by 17 year olds doing the same job, no qualifications needed.

Now many years later I work at a university and find myself surounded by 18 year old muppets who have no experienice of real life, no opinions except those thrust on them by professors and lecturers who have never had to make a living in the real world.

And the cycle continues


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JohnSmith69
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Sep 28, 2004, 05:19 AM
 
We go to school, because the poor African can't,
we have to make up for it,
for the sake of educating human kind as a whole.

dam Africans and their unwillingness to sacrifice a day to eat for a decent education.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Sep 28, 2004, 05:57 AM
 
Originally posted by SamuraiDL:
I really want to go to this school is switzerland that offers amazing ma and ph.d programs in communication taught by professors such as David Lynch and DJ Spooky. However... no ba here. Have i limited my horizons?
Didn't you just answer that question in the sentence before with a resounding "YES!"?

If your lack of schooling is standing in the way of doing what you'd like to do, then do something about it. At 21, you still have all the possibilities. It gets progressively more difficult the older you get (believe me, I know whereof I speak).

Also, just figure that the chances of you actually being able to LIVE OFF music are damn near zero, and not exactly getting better as we speak. Any further schooling will improve your chances of Plan-B-survival.

And as for the importance of general education to basic comprehension/interaction skills, just read the political lounge for a day.

-s*
     
cszar2001
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Sep 28, 2004, 08:01 AM
 
Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:

And as for the importance of general education to basic comprehension/interaction skills, just read the political lounge for a day.

-s*
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mitchell_pgh
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Sep 28, 2004, 08:07 AM
 
Generally we go to a traditional school to indicate that we have a base knowledge.

With a BA, or BS from a college, it's known that you should have had college level English, Mathematics, Science, History, etc. and then have had numerous classes in your area of concentration.

I also know that you can start something and finish it.

College is also about more then just education, and I feel commuters miss out on this part. It's a time to grow up without having to be in the cold harsh world. It's a time to make mistakes, to have a little too much fun, to grow socially etc.

I could have gone to a library and have learned 90%+ of what I learned in college, but I could never have learned that social aspect of how to get along with people you don't like, how to make friends, etc.

College isn't for everyone, but it's where I grew as a person. Where I could ask questions and be around well educated people that could actually give me good answers (professors and students).
     
MilkmanDan
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Sep 28, 2004, 08:13 AM
 
Why education in a post modern society:

Before the 19th century, and before the industrial revolution, a person (an average person) could learn everything they needed to know in their own households or a skilled trade by being an apprentice. Thats they way things had been for a very long time. Farmers worked off the land, and their day was governed by the sun and by the seasons. Mind you, the majority of the people in the 'western' world were in some sort of agricultural related job. The industrial revolution and the forming of nation states changed this in the mid 19th century. Thanks Europe.

The main reason general education was created was to form a nationalistic bond to a nation state. This was important in Europe, where people held a strong bond to a local area and not to a 'national' government. There was also the problem of language which was highly varied throughout many countries in Europe. Long story short: it is easier to mobilize the population when they hold loyalty to a centralize government.

The industrial revolution also changed the reason for an education. People needed to be trained to use a clock, and also trained to learn new skills quickly. Schooling did this. It also gave people a basic idea of math and language skills that would be needed in factories. As technology improved, there were less deaths and less workers needed in the fields. So education ended up being a training ground for factory life and conformity to national standards.

In our 'post modern' society education still plays the same roles. Creating a nationalistic feeling in the hearts of the students, and making them loyal to something besides their local government (national anthem and a white washed history anyone?). More and more so a basic education is needed for everything, though the backlash of parents in America is to start forming a strong base of home schooling throughout the US, though this is mainly found in upper middle class families who can afford to leave someone home to teach the children. But the whole home schooling issue is something I'll leave for another post.

So thats the answer to why we have education, and why every country in the world does it the exact same way. It pays to be a history major.
     
Sandbaggins
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Sep 28, 2004, 08:45 AM
 
Originally posted by JohnSmith69:
We go to school, because the poor African can't,
we have to make up for it,
for the sake of educating human kind as a whole.

dam Africans and their unwillingness to sacrifice a day to eat for a decent education.



This is what happens to you if you do not go to school.

You write crap.
15" 1.25/512/80/5400/SD/AE Aluminum Powerbook
     
phoenixboy70
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Sep 28, 2004, 08:54 AM
 
"college = trainingcamp for the middle class non-identity" - bathroom graffitti ca. 1992

this doesn't really reflect my personal stance about going to college, but somehow (in a really wierd and twisted way) this sentiment keeps coming up in my life.
     
d.fine
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Sep 28, 2004, 08:59 AM
 
Originally posted by Sandbaggins:
This is what happens to you if you do not go to school.

You write crap.
Haha, I agree.

stuffing feathers up your b*tt doesn't make you a chicken.
     
Rain
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Sep 28, 2004, 09:07 AM
 
School forces you to take courses that you normally wouldn't take as part of your BA (they're called electives), thus allowing you to learn about things you wouldn't normally learn on your own. It's a good way to expand one's mind, and be less ignorant about the world.

If you're really good in what you do, then good for you! but it still wouldn't hurt you in any way to spend those years in school improving your craft. I know someone who's got a bunch of excellent roles in Broadway shows after graduating with degree in music and theatre (she's currently a lead in something, but I don't remember the title). Her degree shows that she's serious about said subject.

But then again, I may be bias cuz I love school
     
SimeyTheLimey
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Sep 28, 2004, 09:24 AM
 
Originally posted by SamuraiDL:
MY name is Drew, some of you know me as a troll who has been banned twice and even had my IP address once banned, yet made a strong comeback through a series of pleas to demonhood. Some of you think Im a looser, some of you (manofsteal) enjoy some of my wittier posts. However I am Musician, it is my passion in life. It is all that i want to do. However it has recently dawned on me that i have completely disregarded education as something for those chumps over there, those people concerned with conforming to society, and following the norm ie. high-school collage graduate work good job ect. ect. However now as I look back at my checkered educational past, high-school diploma, I cant help but think... Have I not done the work that will be necessary to feel like an accomplished helpful society driven person. I really want to go to this school is switzerland that offers amazing ma and ph.d programs in communication taught by professors such as David Lynch and DJ Spooky. However... no ba here. Have i limited my horizons? Do I need to go to school? What do people think?
Really, this is a question that only you can answer. Not everyone needs to go to college, or wants to, or is able to successfully. Nor is it something you have to do at any particular age. Personally, I didn't go to college until I was 28. I wasn't ready till then and I did better because I waited. I also know people who have been very successful without degrees.

However, I will offer three pieces of advice for you to do with what you will:

First, whatever you do, don't drift. You are getting to the point in your life where suddenly your life begins to accellerate. When I look back on my 20s it is stunning how quickly they went by and my 30s are going even faster. If you don't do something now to show for them, you really will come across as a loser and that will hurt you.

Second: Don't worry too much about getting into the perfect undergraduate school. Unless you are talking about somewhere like Juilliard that will make you for life nobody cares where you went for an undergrad degree. All that they care about is that it was a decent recognized school and you do well there. Leave specialization for grad school.

Third: Related to the second point, be careful about any degree that has to be explained. Remember, that the value of a degree as a credential is that it doesn't require explanation. Degrees have their value largely because of the trust they convey. Few schools have enough of a reputation to cross continents. It doesn't matter how good the program is, if you have to explain it, it is working against you. A degree as a credential should work for you.

Good luck!
     
kupan787
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Sep 28, 2004, 03:54 PM
 
Originally posted by demograph68:
It should be a part of the curriculum to read Howard Zinn's A People's History Of The United States Of America. Instead, we are raised to believe of how "great" a man Christopher Columbus was, as well as similar BS.
That was one of the assigned history books for my high school US History class actually (the other being American Odyssey, your typical high school history book). The funny thing is my teacher, who I believe met Howard Zinn once, was also the football linebackers coach. He was actually a pretty intelligent guy. It was one of the few books I acutally read all the way through in high school (the other being Ender's Game )

An interesting tidbit, but when I took a history class in college (2 years ago), one of the first things the professor asked was if anyone had heard of Howard Zinn or read anythign by him. Out of a class of 125+, me and one other guy were the only ones to raise our hands. The teacher was actually quite surprised.
     
ringo
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Sep 28, 2004, 04:11 PM
 
A degree is just a fancy ticket. Having a ticket doesn't make you a better person, but it does let you go places you couldn't easily go without one. You can be wildly successful without a degree, but the odds are stacked against you. Even a two-year degree puts you in a much better position than having just a HS diploma. Find a local community college and see what's available.

If you're happy with what you're doing and think you can be happy doing the same type of work making about the same money for the next thirty years or so, then don't bother going back. If you want more money or more opportunities then go back now, because the longer you wait the harder it will be.
     
Lancer409
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Sep 28, 2004, 04:13 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
How good of a musician are you?

The best question one can ask

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
     
Lancer409
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Sep 28, 2004, 04:18 PM
 
Originally posted by SamuraiDL:
yeah, but I think my main question is, why do we need to go to school to be "educated" ?

No ... booksmarts does not equate to real world experience. They are two different things

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
     
ManOfSteal
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Sep 28, 2004, 04:22 PM
 
Originally posted by Sandbaggins:
This is what happens to you if you do not go to school.

You write crap.
Amen.
     
Lancer409
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Sep 28, 2004, 04:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
Bachelor of Arts

Xeo .. what happened to your animated Sig?

No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
     
storer
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Sep 28, 2004, 05:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Lancer409:
Xeo .. what happened to your animated Sig?
i never saw it...!
     
SamuraiDL  (op)
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Sep 28, 2004, 05:59 PM
 
The thing that really pisses me off, is that the dean of this school in Switzerland, thinks i need to have more of an education to keep up with the genius minds teaching at his school. ********. I wonder if he understands the Human form as a mosaic of transdermal malleable units of interpretation to all of life. My guess... probably not. Yet I live by that philosophy and i never paid attention to one word i heard in class.
     
DeathMan
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Sep 28, 2004, 06:44 PM
 
Originally posted by SamuraiDL:
The thing that really pisses me off, is that the dean of this school in Switzerland, thinks i need to have more of an education to keep up with the genius minds teaching at his school. ********. I wonder if he understands the Human form as a mosaic of transdermal malleable units of interpretation to all of life. My guess... probably not. Yet I live by that philosophy and i never paid attention to one word i heard in class.
If I were the dean of a prestigious music program, and some kid came to me with no secondary education wanting in to my MFA or MA programs, I'd be sceptical. If that kid told me ne never paid attention to one work he heard in class, I'd tell him he wasn't ready for my program.

One of the best ways to get what you want from someone, is to first put yourself in their place, and try to determine what the best approach would be to get into the program. It sounds like you might have expected him to already know and be in awe of your awesome talent, where he probably sees considerable musical talent on a daily basis.

And why would he care about transdermal malleable units? This is a music program? Or a new-age bio-philosophy program?

Bottom line: They don't want indignent punks.
     
SamuraiDL  (op)
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Sep 29, 2004, 01:08 AM
 
oh i agree, but in the deans primary statement about the university, he writes about this school being for those who have always felt like they did not belong in regular education programs, people who naturally think against the grain, not about what necessarily lies on the surface. People
"Needless to say, we are looking for excellence, but perhaps more importantly we are looking for something unique in the people studying in this program. It helps if you are considered provocative and are disenchanted with an academic system more concerned with the past than the future. With us, there are no "wrong" questions, 'loners' are appreciated and 'surfers' encouraged. But you should have a keen sense of humor and be able to laugh about yourself. For the M.A. in Communication program, having no prior knowledge of philosophy is not an obstacle. In short, students should believe fiercely in thinking for themselves and be self-directed in their investigation of a reality not yet understood. By the same token, students must be open-minded to considering and, at times, accepting other understandings of the subject matter."
     
   
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