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Snow leopard: Release (Page 2)
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64stang06
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Mar 11, 2009, 08:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 View Post
SL was suppose to be demo'd. For whatever reason, it ended up on the back burner. I can't blame my 'source' if things doing go according to plan 100% of the time.

Plus, i think Apple puts out false info to throw everyone off.
I didn't mean to sound rude about it, I should have put a smile after my post
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drnkn_stylz
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Mar 17, 2009, 03:46 AM
 
I'm more excited for 10.5.7 right now. Lots of fixes which makes my UMB happy.

SL will be a great improvement, but I am happy waiting patiently. I would rather it come later and more refined, instead of rushed to keep the yuppies happy.

Hell, I would take things like better NVIDIA drivers, and better Flash coding over a GM build of SL right about now
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Mar 17, 2009, 04:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by drnkn_stylz View Post
L will be a great improvement, but I am happy waiting patiently. I would rather it come later and more refined, instead of rushed to keep the yuppies happy.
I fully agree with that. I think we all remember the Leopard release. Had Apple waited with the release and ironed out some of the bugs they ended up fixing in 10.5.1-10.5.3 the Leopard transition would have been much smoother.

Since SL seems to be more about refinements to the foundation than flashy gimmicks I think Apple would be wise to hold off a release until the product is really there. Unfortunately, greed as well as pressure from an early Win7 release point in another direction.
     
AppleGirl1990  (op)
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Mar 17, 2009, 07:20 AM
 
In real world talk, i would like Apple to release SL after Windows 7, so Microsoft can't steal new features (if any) from Apple. I know SL is going to be more geared towards code updates than features, but i know Apple will have at least 5 new features in the new OS. When you think about prior OS's, out of the 215 new features they all claim, only a handful are big. SL will have just the majors!
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Mar 18, 2009, 04:13 AM
 
Win 7, like SL, is in testing and the feature set is frozen. Neither can steal from the other at this point. Not so sure that they do that anyway - MS i focused on making its own interface work, and is rather moving further away from the Mac interface than towards it.

Don't forget that Apple has an exquisite feel for the market. After Leopard, the voices calling "I don't care about features, just fix the bugs" were louder than ever - so the next version was sold as just that. "No new features" IS the headliner feature, like Spotlight was for 10.4. I'm sure they'll dig up 100 "enhancements" anyway - it's all in the selling.
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AppleGirl1990  (op)
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Mar 18, 2009, 07:04 AM
 
If anyone thinks that SL won't have a major new feature (other than new code) is dreaming.
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Mar 18, 2009, 07:57 AM
 
A major new feature that has yet to be announced? Pretty unlikely, AppleGirl.

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Mar 18, 2009, 12:06 PM
 
Build 4K78 isn't the GM - it's a conspiracy!

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Mar 18, 2009, 12:13 PM
 
<lame joke>
Is it snappier?
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Mar 18, 2009, 01:13 PM
 
The secret feature is already in Snow Leopard, but there's code in there that hides the special feature until the date it's supposed to be released — then it will become the "real" release build.
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Mar 18, 2009, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 View Post
If anyone thinks that SL won't have a major new feature (other than new code) is dreaming.
Just like we all slept through the demo at MacWorld...
     
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Mar 18, 2009, 01:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
A major new feature that has yet to be announced? Pretty unlikely, AppleGirl.
You think so? I'd still expect something. And a cheaper price point, in my eyes, could be that yet-to-be-announced feature. (Obviously when upgrading from Leopard. Tiger users, still full-price.)
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Mar 18, 2009, 02:56 PM
 
Honestly I doubt Apple will not have at least one killer feature in Snow Leopard that will get people like my mom to upgrade. Though who knows they may be comfortable with taking a sales hit and having more people pirate the OS... I dono we shall have to see.
     
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Mar 18, 2009, 05:59 PM
 
That feature is probably better Exchange support in Mail - that might swing some upgrades.
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Mar 19, 2009, 01:44 AM
 
Windows 7 is actually a big improvement from Vista, which is a good thing. I don't mind using WIndows 7 in it's current Beta form. I use Windows XP everyday just as much as Leopard.

As for Snow Leopard having new features, I doubt it will be anything ground breaking. I'm sure there will be a few "new features" as Apple likes to call it. Snow Leopard was designed from the beginning to be strictly improvements.

Originally Posted by Apple.com
Taking a break from adding new features, Snow Leopard — scheduled to ship in about a year — builds on Leopard’s enormous innovations by delivering a new generation of core software technologies that will streamline Mac OS X, enhance its performance, and set new standards for quality. Snow Leopard dramatically reduces the footprint of Mac OS X, making it even more efficient for users, and giving them back valuable hard drive space for their music and photos.
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AppleGirl1990  (op)
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Mar 19, 2009, 07:25 AM
 
Could be a new Dock. Could be new interactive Wallpapers. There will be something!
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Mar 19, 2009, 05:44 PM
 
There will be a large list of "new features." There has to be for marketing. They will be little things like there was in Leopard. Think Exchange (biggest) to the new Stacks, the "Put Back" command, 512x512 icons in the Finder, QuickLook icons, etc.
     
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Mar 19, 2009, 06:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 View Post
Could be a new Dock. Could be new interactive Wallpapers. There will be something!
This must be some strange new definition of the phrase "major new feature" (as per your post above) that I wasn't hitherto aware of.
     
Miniryu
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Mar 26, 2009, 03:25 AM
 
A little birdie told me that SL has a Special Attack.

The only other new feature will be the ability to bake Flamin' Hot Cheetos at home.

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Mar 26, 2009, 03:38 AM
 
Screw little birdies. Here's the turkey.
New Marble interface to be released with Snow Leopard. First peak in next dev build.

• Next Snow Leopard builds to include big changes
• Snow Leopard to be wrapped in new interface ahead of launch
• WWDC to offer finalized preview, release date
• Snow Leopard to hit retail within two months of WWDC
• Upcoming iPhone OS 3 beta to activate live Push Notification support



     
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Mar 26, 2009, 04:27 AM
 
Bear in mind that neither of those are actually pics of Snow Leopard, deceptively placed as they may be.
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Mar 26, 2009, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by drnkn_stylz View Post
Windows 7 is actually a big improvement from Vista, which is a good thing. I don't mind using WIndows 7 in it's current Beta form. I use Windows XP everyday just as much as Leopard.

As for Snow Leopard having new features, I doubt it will be anything ground breaking. I'm sure there will be a few "new features" as Apple likes to call it. Snow Leopard was designed from the beginning to be strictly improvements.
Why is the new Windows OS called Windows 7, when there is already Windows 2000? Kind of backwards. Does anyone know how much SL will cost? Will any future iLife/iWork upgrades (in 2010 or something like that) require SL to run? Should I invest in this upgrade? Apple called it "bug fixes" instead of new features at Macworld (I saw it on GMA or something). I see that you guys are speculating something new, but I'm not sure. If it's not like Tiger to Leopard or Panther to Tiger, it should be free. I don't want to pay money fpr little bug fixes.
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Mar 26, 2009, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
Why is the new Windows OS called Windows 7, when there is already Windows 2000? Kind of backwards.
Why does apple use version 10 when there's been 6 versions of OSX?

Marketing,
( Last edited by Maflynn; Mar 26, 2009 at 01:53 PM. Reason: I can't count)
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Mar 26, 2009, 01:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by Maflynn View Post
Why does apple use version 10 when there's been 6 versions of OSX?

Marketing,
Apple doesn't. Snow Leopard is not called OS X.10. The X is NOT a version.

Btw, incl. SL, there will be 7 versions of OS X.

10.0
10.1
10.2
10.3
10.4
10.5
10.6

-t
     
0157988944
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Mar 26, 2009, 05:30 PM
 
Well, X is sort of a version... compared with their naming scheme it is a little weird...

Mac OS 7.0 - Cost $
Mac OS 7.1... - Free
Mac OS 8.0 - Cost $
Mac OS 8.1... - Free
Mac OS 9.0 - Cost $
Mac OS 9.1.. - Free
Mac OS 10.0 -Cost $
Mac OS 10.1... - Cost $
EDIT: Just realized that 10.1 was in fact free, but you still get the point. Point version of OS X are $$.
     
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Mar 26, 2009, 05:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
Why is the new Windows OS called Windows 7, when there is already Windows 2000?
Because Vista was such a monumental cluster****, MS is forced to rely on the Windows brand directly. By not adding a specific name, the new OS will be called Windows 7 - it's too short to just call it "seven", like Windows Vista was just called "Vista". Windows is a brand that is still strong. The alternative would be to build a new brand name, and that's expensive.

As for the number 7... Windows 95 was Windows 4.0. Win 98 was Win 4.1. At the same time, there was Windows NT 4.0. Windows 2000 was supposed to be the OS that unified NT and DOS-based Windows, and was supposed to Windows 5.0. That failed, and because NT 4.0 was getting very long in the tooth, MS decided to strip out the consumer stuff and just make Windows NT 5.0 - except called Windows 2000, because they had spent so much money pushing that name. What was supposed to be Windows 2000 was released a year late under the name Windows XP - Windows 5.1.

Vista was a big update, and so Windows 6.0. Windows 7 is the logical next name, even though it's really not big enough to be anything more than Windows 6.1. We'll see what the kernel version number really ends up as.
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Mar 26, 2009, 05:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by adamfishercox View Post
Well, X is sort of a version... compared with their naming scheme it is a little weird...

Mac OS 7.0 - Cost $
Mac OS 7.1... - Free
Mac OS 8.0 - Cost $
Mac OS 8.1... - Free
Mac OS 9.0 - Cost $
Mac OS 9.1.. - Free
Mac OS 10.0 -Cost $
Mac OS 10.1... - Cost $
EDIT: Just realized that 10.1 was in fact free, but you still get the point. Point version of OS X are $$.
Eh... No. Not even close. System 7 was free, as were all the ones before it. 7.0.1 and the three tuneups were also free, but 7.1 cost money. The three updates to it were free, but there was also "System 7 Pro" that cost money. 7.5 cost money, the small versions up to 7.5.5 were free. 7.6 cost money, 7.6.1 was free. After that you actually hit 2 in a row - 8.0 cost money, and 8.1 was free - but then you miss 8.5 (cost money) and 8.6 (free). 9.0 cost money, 9.1 and 9.2.1 were free along with all the point updates.

After that, Apple has been wonderfully consistent. While 10.1 was sort-of free, you did have to pick up a disc - there was no free download. They haven't skipped version numbers, but simply increased the revision count by one whenever you had to get a new disc and kept the free fixes remarkably free of game-changing updates.
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Mar 27, 2009, 10:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
Why is the new Windows OS called Windows 7?
Because calling it "Windows continues to be completely sh*t" wouldn't sell too well, although it would still do better than Vista...
     
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Mar 28, 2009, 11:04 AM
 
Totally true. It's just weird how Microsoft actually has version numbers (as seen in one of the posts above) but does not market their operating systems that way.
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AppleGirl1990  (op)
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Apr 5, 2009, 04:54 PM
 
So how much faster will my machine be once SL is installed?
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Apr 5, 2009, 04:58 PM
 
46.

Maybe even 52.
     
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Apr 5, 2009, 11:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
46.

Maybe even 52.
What does this mean?
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Apr 5, 2009, 11:34 PM
 
I thought the "answer" was 42.
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Apr 5, 2009, 11:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
What does this mean?
He's messing with her, because she asked kind of a silly question. A not-very-meaningful one, even.
     
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Apr 6, 2009, 02:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hal Itosis View Post
I thought the "answer" was 42.
But what was the question?
     
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Apr 6, 2009, 04:29 AM
 
Q: So how much faster will my machine be once SL is installed?
A: Much faster.
     
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Apr 6, 2009, 07:08 AM
 
Snow Leopard appears to be coming up against Windows 7.... despite neither having a confirmed shipping date. With all the glitz and glamour surrounding Windows 7, im not sure if Apple will be able to hype Snow Leopard to compete on 'new features'.

I do think that 10.5 is feature complete (for my needs), and that the optimizations coming in SL will be awesome. But i have to confess that ive always felt that optimizations should come in incremental updates as opposed to the major updates.

Apple is being awfully secretive of SL. If they are only doing under-the-hood refinements, i dont see the reason for being this secretive.... so i do suspect that there will be some surprises.

And as far as ship dates..... i think it would be better marketing for Apple to launch SL after the Windows7 hoopla is over. This wold give SL a few headlines, it wouldnt be in the shadow of Win7 and most importantly...Microsoft wont be able to rip off any new ideas.

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Apr 6, 2009, 09:37 AM
 
I doubt you could call what Apple's doing to SL optimizations. It sounds like a rewrite of a lot of the internal underlying structures that allow Leopard to "do stuff." I'm more than willing to plunk my loot down to get this...when an OS can make effective and efficient use of the GPU and multiple cores it will be spectacular (e.g. lots of untapped power's going to be utilized in SL).

I think this is a significant enough release to warrant a major update...though didn't something similar happen to Mac OS 9.2 (though not quite the same...they released large-scale optimizations and made it an incremntal update)?
     
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Apr 6, 2009, 10:01 AM
 
Leopard, or rather: all versions of OS X released up to now are lacking some more advanced security features that MS has had to include to Windows. Things that make it more difficult to access memory segments with malicious code, for instance. As mentioned before, you need major rewrites for this, nothing you can roll out in a point upgrade.
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Apr 6, 2009, 10:42 AM
 
I disagree. Windows has SO MUCH security that you just can't get anything done if your life depended on it. Subscription renewal messages to virus software (even though my mom has other software for this) keeps popping up! And the only way to stop them is to renew a subscription to what she doesn't need. Not that this has anything to do with security, but Windows starts doing updates by itself and then clogs up ram--without asking. SL does not need more security. Mac is very secure. And it is better because it does all that in the background. I can optimize security without my work being interrupted.
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Apr 6, 2009, 11:05 AM
 
I think you misunderstood Oreo's post. He was talking about security measures in the underlying foundations of the OS, not security apps/utilities that you as a user are forced to interact with. OS X has never been (and likely will never be) as obtrusive a Windows. While Windows likes to be chatty (yet still goes out of its way to hide what's actually going on), OS X has always tried staying out of people's faces so they can concentrate on actual work.
     
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Apr 6, 2009, 12:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
OS X has never been (and likely will never be) as obtrusive a Windows. While Windows likes to be chatty (yet still goes out of its way to hide what's actually going on)
IIRC, some Microsoft dweeb has actually gone on public record stating that Vista tries *purposely* to be as annoying as possible in order to get people to stop running it as admins.

That's so ass-backwards, I don't even know where to begin.
     
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Apr 6, 2009, 01:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
IIRC, some Microsoft dweeb has actually gone on public record stating that Vista tries *purposely* to be as annoying as possible in order to get people to stop running it as admins.

That's so ass-backwards, I don't even know where to begin.
And the sad part is, the problem of people running as admins began because Windows' security model was horribly broken and running as admin was the only way to get anything done in practice. Microsoft is fighting itself.
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Apr 6, 2009, 03:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
But what was the question?
"If you expect to survive out here, you've got to know where your towel is."

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AppleGirl1990  (op)
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Apr 6, 2009, 06:47 PM
 
well, i know where my towel is.
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Apr 6, 2009, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Hal Itosis View Post
"If you expect to survive out here, you've got to know where your towel is."

Ease up a little. Sometimes people just miss a post of a thread, big deal. It's not like we pay for all this stuff!
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Apr 6, 2009, 07:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
Leopard, or rather: all versions of OS X released up to now are lacking some more advanced security features that MS has had to include to Windows. Things that make it more difficult to access memory segments with malicious code, for instance.
I thought Leopard already had this:

Library randomization
While the execute disable feature provides some measure of protection from buffer
overflow exploits, there is a well-known technique for circumventing stack execute
disable called return to libc. The essence of a “return to libc” attack is to replace a
legitimate return memory address on the stack with the known memory address of
a system function. The technique gets its name from the practice of calling functions
such as system() in the system’s C library.

In Leopard, libraries are loaded into random addresses when the system is installed
and at any time that library prebinding is updated on the system (typically after
system software updates, though you can manually force an update by running the
“update_dyld_shared_cache -force” command). For any given Mac, the
address of a particular library function will be fixed in one of thousands of random
locations between system updates, but across all Mac systems, the address is different.
This makes it much more difficult to use “return to libc” exploits, since for any given
Mac running Leopard it is difficult to know the address of the system library function.

Sandboxing
Sandboxing helps ensure that applications do only what they’re intended to do by
placing controls on applications that restrict what files they can access, whether they
can talk to the network, and whether they can be used to launch other applications.
In Leopard, many of the system’s helper applications that normally communicate
with the network—such as mDNSResponder (the software underlying Bonjour) and
the Kerberos KDC—are sandboxed to guard them from abuse by attackers trying to
access the system. In addition, other programs that routinely take untrusted input (for
instance, arbitrary files or network connections) such as Xgrid and the Quick Look and
Spotlight background daemons are sandboxed.

Sandboxing in Leopard is based on the system’s mandatory access controls mecha-
nism, which is implemented at the kernel level. Sandboxing profiles are developed
for each application that runs in a sandbox, describing precisely which resources are
accessible to the application.

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TETENAL
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Apr 6, 2009, 07:57 PM
 
     
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Apr 6, 2009, 08:05 PM
 
Thanks for that. That's a good roundup and explanation for the layman.

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Hal Itosis
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Apr 6, 2009, 11:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
Ease up a little. Sometimes people just miss a post of a thread, big deal. It's not like we pay for all this stuff!
Ease up???
( Last edited by Hal Itosis; Apr 7, 2009 at 04:18 PM. Reason: easing up)
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