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Blu-ray soon?
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money69
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Apr 25, 2009, 03:43 PM
 
Anyone know if theres been any rumors about Blu-ray drives being added to the new revision of macbook pros, any idea on weather this will happen soon or not?
     
chabig
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Apr 25, 2009, 03:54 PM
 
Nobody knows but Apple. However, I wouldn't expect it.
     
Zeeb
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Apr 27, 2009, 12:46 PM
 
I don't know, but I hope its relatively soon. The fact that Apple notebooks don't have Blu-ray is astoundingly ridiculous. Even low-priced PC have these drives and their absence on macbook pros is getting conspicuous. I'll be in the market for a new laptop in fall/winter and if Apple continues to exclude them I'm not sure my next one will be an Apple.

I'm fine renting the occasional itunes HD movie but I find them very overpriced compared to the value of my netflix membership. They ship me blu-ray movies--that I wouldn't be able to play on a new Apple $2700 notebook-- but do play on a plastic craptastic $1,200 PC.
     
chabig
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Apr 27, 2009, 12:51 PM
 
I don't miss Blu-ray, and I'm willing to wait and see whether it's successful in the marketplace before I pay big bucks for a player. For the early adopters--get yourself an external drive and you're in business.
     
Zeeb
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Apr 27, 2009, 12:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
I don't miss Blu-ray, and I'm willing to wait and see whether it's successful in the marketplace before I pay big bucks for a player. For the early adopters--get yourself an external drive and you're in business.
Carrying an external drive on the plane or bus and then setting it up is rather inconvenient--you get a notebook for portability. If I wanted to watch a blu-ray at home I'd pop it into my PS3 and watch it on TV.

There are now many blu-ray players on the market and Virgin Megastore now has a huge selection of Blu-ray titles. It's not a runaway hit like VHS to DVD but its clearly growing--and beyond the nascent technology stage.
     
olePigeon
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Apr 27, 2009, 01:08 PM
 
Blu-Ray is too expensive to license. At least, that's Apple's reasoning. Jobs said they're going to wait for Blu-Ray to become more established, but that's going to take a while during this recession. Blu-Ray is still too expensive.

Maybe HD-DVD will be relaunched.
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Zeeb
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Apr 27, 2009, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Blu-Ray is too expensive to license. At least, that's Apple's reasoning. Jobs said they're going to wait for Blu-Ray to become more established, but that's going to take a while during this recession. Blu-Ray is still too expensive.

Maybe HD-DVD will be relaunched.
I'm not sure I buy that. If Blu-ray is so expensive to license then why can I get a $1300 crappy Dell notebook with a blu-ray drive but a $2700 macbook pro doesn't have one? Apple is waiting too long IMO.

This weekend I saw a Microsoft ad that pointed out the presence of a blu-ray drive on a PC but the lack of one on a Mac. Much of Microsoft's current ad campaign against Apple is weak but that particular point hits a bullseye.
     
olePigeon
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Apr 27, 2009, 03:21 PM
 
Part of the problem is that the already relatively expensive $2700 MacBook Pro would suddenly become $3000+ with Blu-Ray.

In any event, Panasonic announced the first slim-line Blu-Ray burner earlier this year. You may be in luck for the next MacBook Pro revision.
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RevEvs
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Apr 27, 2009, 04:02 PM
 
Blu-Ray really needs to be an option. However, who will make the Blu-Ray player? On the PC side of things all the software has issues and needs constant updates! Not sure apple want that hassle!

I really want Blu-Ray in my next MBP so I can grab a film to watch and not worry if its DVD or Blu-Ray.
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ibook_steve
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Apr 27, 2009, 04:19 PM
 
Apple will not do Blu-Ray anytime soon. Why should they when they want you to buy HD content from iTunes? And what can you do with Blu-Ray other than watching movies? The typical consumer has no need to author Blu-ray disks, so that's all it would do (other than standard DVD functions). Yes, it could be an option, which is probably how it will eventually start out as, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

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Zeeb
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Apr 27, 2009, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by ibook_steve View Post
Apple will not do Blu-Ray anytime soon. Why should they when they want you to buy HD content from iTunes? And what can you do with Blu-Ray other than watching movies? The typical consumer has no need to author Blu-ray disks, so that's all it would do (other than standard DVD functions). Yes, it could be an option, which is probably how it will eventually start out as, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Steve
You're correct in that it might not happen soon--who knows but Apple? However, I think watching movies on a laptop is one of their primary uses. Whenever I see a person with an open laptop on a plane more often than not its not a spreadsheet they have open but a movie they are watching.

HD content from iTunes is expensive--while a blu-ray disk rented from Netflix is relatively inexpensive. Also, If you rely on iTunes as your sole source of movies, you'll be pretty limited as to content. I think there will be a significant number of people who will want to place HD movies they may have purchased online to watch on HDTV's at home--which they obviously can't do with a DVD drive. Apple TV is great but its very limited.
     
ibook_steve
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Apr 27, 2009, 05:29 PM
 
Another point: how long does a typical laptop battery last playing a Blu-ray movie? Maybe the 17-inch MBP's "8 hour battery" could make it, but for smaller machines with less battery capacity, even watching more than 1 DVD today is difficult. I don't know anything about Blu-ray power requirements, but I'll bet it's more than DVD.

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mduell
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Apr 27, 2009, 07:41 PM
 
No, iTMS generates more revenue.
     
Zeeb
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Apr 27, 2009, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
No, iTMS generates more revenue.
Steve Jobs didn't say Apple would *never* adopt blu-ray. He just said they would not at the time he was asked the question because of apparent licensing issues. I don't think they can afford to wait too much longer before their computers start getting branded by competitors as being obsolete out of the box.
     
goMac
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Apr 27, 2009, 10:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Steve Jobs didn't say Apple would *never* adopt blu-ray. He just said they would not at the time he was asked the question because of apparent licensing issues. I don't think they can afford to wait too much longer before their computers start getting branded by competitors as being obsolete out of the box.
With Apple looking towards building smaller notebooks with no optical drives, I wouldn't hold your breath.
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Simon
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Apr 28, 2009, 03:51 AM
 
Exactly. In the future what we'll see is Apple removing the optical drives from all portables saving weight and reducing volume. The current DL burners will not be updated BR. They'll be updated by removal.

The question then remains what kind of support Apple will offer for external BR drives (in terms of movie content, since data is already there). My guess is they're in no special rush. iTS will be their answer for quite another while.
     
JKT
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Apr 28, 2009, 04:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
Steve Jobs didn't say Apple would *never* adopt blu-ray. He just said they would not at the time he was asked the question because of apparent licensing issues. I don't think they can afford to wait too much longer before their computers start getting branded by competitors as being obsolete out of the box.
Why? Because they don't include a drive for a disk format that was obsolete before it was even released?
     
Zeeb
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Apr 28, 2009, 10:31 AM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
With Apple looking towards building smaller notebooks with no optical drives, I wouldn't hold your breath.
Are you talking about netbooks? Apple has already stated they are not interested in that market for now. The Macbook Air is doing ok(which doesn't include an optical drive), but not as well as macbooks and macbook pros which do include them.

Still, you might be right. If a service like netflix had downloadable HD movies that I could rent for the same price as their mail-in disk service then I might be more comfortable with the exclusion of an optical drive altogether. I know there *are* HD movies available for rent from iTunes and other outlets but those can be up to $5.99 each and the selection is a joke. You are also forced to watch them within a specific time period whereas a disc can set around for ages until you're ready.

I think the resolution to the technical and licensing issues of downloadable HD content are far enough off that it would be well worth it to include a blu-ray drive in macs for awhile. Once the downloadable future is here, then optical drives can be safely eliminated and cost savings can go toward larger hard drives to store all that HD content.
     
Simon
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Apr 28, 2009, 11:18 AM
 
Not having an optical != netbook.

Opticals are bulky, slow, and unreliable. All of those issues affect any notebook, not just netbooks. Opticals in general are on the way out.
     
goMac
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:35 AM
 
Opticals also take away space from ports.

If you took the optical off of the Macbook you'd have no problem adding those Firewire ports...
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Simon
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
If you took the optical off of the Macbook you'd have no problem adding those Firewire ports...
And an eSATA port, and a PC card slot, and about another two hours of battery life.
     
Simon
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:58 AM
 
And since it fits the topic of this thread, these pics just got out. Apple has now mentioned BR for the first time in their credits.

New iTunes 8.2 beta release:


Regular iTunes 8.1.1:


http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/28/...to-developers/
http://www.9to5mac.com/blu-ray-apple-macintosh
     
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Apr 29, 2009, 07:58 AM
 
Very interesting!

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Zeeb
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Apr 29, 2009, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
And since it fits the topic of this thread, these pics just got out. Apple has now mentioned BR for the first time in their credits.

New iTunes 8.2 beta release:


Regular iTunes 8.1.1:


http://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/28/...to-developers/
http://www.9to5mac.com/blu-ray-apple-macintosh
If this does suggest that Apple might be close to adding blu ray drives, I hope it rolls out immediately as a standard feature and not an option--at least as a read only drive. Considering the price of $2500 and $2700 for 15 and 17 inch notebooks I don't think that's unreasonable.

I could understanding charging extra for read/write. Anyway, might be jumping the gun--a few notes don't guarantee anything.
     
lysolman
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Apr 29, 2009, 12:33 PM
 
Firstly, why the **** do you need or want 1080p content on a notebook screen. You cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p with such a small screen. For the differences to be seen with the human eye, you need a bigger screen.

Secondly, what the **** are you doing with discs? What year is it? Really, really!

Solid state mediums are a dying breed, and if you really think that Apple (especially with the iTunes Store) is going to make an enormous effort to get Blu-Ray playback out as soon as possible, you are mistaken.

This is the same company who got rid of the floppy drive 12 years ago. Really, Really!

For God's sake, be a man use digital files. Leave your discs at home.

I swear to God, If I see you on an airplane switching out movie discs from your laptop, I will smack you in the ****ing head.
     
Zeeb
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Apr 29, 2009, 12:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by lysolman View Post
Firstly, why the **** do you need or want 1080p content on a notebook screen. You cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p with such a small screen. For the differences to be seen with the human eye, you need a bigger screen.

Secondly, what the **** are you doing with discs? What year is it? Really, really!

Solid state mediums are a dying breed, and if you really think that Apple (especially with the iTunes Store) is going to make an enormous effort to get Blu-Ray playback out as soon as possible, you are mistaken.

This is the same company who got rid of the floppy drive 12 years ago. Really, Really!

For God's sake, be a man use digital files. Leave your discs at home.

I swear to God, If I see you on an airplane switching out movie discs from your laptop, I will smack you in the ****ing head.
You keep paying $4.99 each for your downloaded movies and I'll keep paying an average of $2 each for my old fashioned blu-ray disc rental. Until the price differential changes I doubt that discs are going to go out anytime soon.

If I have to take a slap here and there from a weird teenager because I like to spend less money so be it.
     
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Apr 29, 2009, 01:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by lysolman View Post
Firstly, why the **** do you need or want 1080p content on a notebook screen. You cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p with such a small screen. For the differences to be seen with the human eye, you need a bigger screen.
Anyone who claims that obviously hasn't actually seen 720p or 1080p on a laptop screen. It's an ENORMOUS difference, which isn't surprising considering one only sits a few feet away from a laptop.
     
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
You keep paying $4.99 each for your downloaded movies and I'll keep paying an average of $2 each for my old fashioned blu-ray disc rental. Until the price differential changes I doubt that discs are going to go out anytime soon.

If I have to take a slap here and there from a weird teenager because I like to spend less money so be it.
That assumes that Apple wouldn't have to push the price of Macs up to include Blu-Ray drives and to cover the cost of licensing playback of the format. Not to mention the cost of including the crippling DRM scheme for Blu-Ray in the OS necessary to permit (and restrict*) you to playing back the format in the first place. Your $2 "saving" for a disc could cost the majority of us who don't care about Blu-Ray a lot, lot more.

* Don't forget that Blu-Ray DRM prevents you from playing back on anything other than "compliant" screens, and includes lots of other really nasty DRM restrictions.
     
Eug
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:22 PM
 
Quite frankly, all that seems like a rather lame excuse. Blu-ray has been available for quite some time now, on machines that cost far less than MacBook Pros.
     
Zeeb
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
That assumes that Apple wouldn't have to push the price of Macs up to include Blu-Ray drives and to cover the cost of licensing playback of the format. Not to mention the cost of including the crippling DRM scheme for Blu-Ray in the OS necessary to permit (and restrict*) you to playing back the format in the first place. Your $2 "saving" for a disc could cost the majority of us who don't care about Blu-Ray a lot, lot more.

* Don't forget that Blu-Ray DRM prevents you from playing back on anything other than "compliant" screens, and includes lots of other really nasty DRM restrictions.
That could be why they've been holding back. The only thing more ludicrous than a top of the line $2700 computer in 2009 *without* blu-ray is a $2900 computer with it--when there are now $1300 PC's that include this technology. You're right, if Apple pulled that I'd be far less likely to get a mac on my next upgrade cycle.

As for overcoming the licensing issues associated with including Blu-ray drives that's frankly not my problem as a consumer. There are plenty of other brands who have managed to overcome this hurdle and I don't know why it would be more difficult for Apple.
     
anthology123
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:50 PM
 
It's not a problem to put a blu-ray player on a mac. It can be done now to MacPros. The difference is the playback, as mentioned before. People will not accept blu-ray as a data-only medium they want to play movies on it. Plus Apple has to have safeguards to try and prevent users from ripping Blu-ray discs and sharing them out to P2P, or copying movies to blank BD discs. I can assume that's what most people here will want do once they get a blu-ray player on their laptop.
     
Zeeb
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Apr 29, 2009, 02:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by anthology123 View Post
It's not a problem to put a blu-ray player on a mac. It can be done now to MacPros. The difference is the playback, as mentioned before. People will not accept blu-ray as a data-only medium they want to play movies on it. Plus Apple has to have safeguards to try and prevent users from ripping Blu-ray discs and sharing them out to P2P, or copying movies to blank BD discs. I can assume that's what most people here will want do once they get a blu-ray player on their laptop.
Again, since I've seen other brands overcome this hurdle why is it a bigger problem for Apple?
     
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Apr 29, 2009, 03:34 PM
 
I write this as someone that has a Blu-Ray player and someone that uses the format:

BRD is not "needed" on the MBP. It's just not. For one thing, there just isn't that much demand for it. Blu-ray won the format battle between it and HD-DVD. But, it may lose the war between optical media and digital downloads.

Put simply, Apple isn't convinced about BRD. Neither are consumers. Why?

1. An upconverted DVD looks almost as good as a BRD...depending on the monitor.
2. There is a large price difference in the discs.
3. Recording is still expensive. We're supposed to watch blu-ray, but record on DVD or DVR?

Those are just a few reasons. With respect to the MBP and blu-ray, I have to question whether one could really see that much of a difference between formats on a laptop screen (good as it is). Wouldn't it be better for Apple just to upconvert the DVD signal? I suspect that one wouldn't notice that much difference. Those that watch movies on laptops are not exactly demanding of the ultimate theater experience. They're looking for good quality and portability.

Just my take.
     
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Apr 29, 2009, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by lysolman View Post
Firstly, why the **** do you need or want 1080p content on a notebook screen. You cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p with such a small screen. For the differences to be seen with the human eye, you need a bigger screen.
Hmm lets see.. im going on a weekend away/trip.. i'll take a film with me, pick up a disk and away I go.. o damn its a Blu-Ray.. I cant play it.

I want blu-ray so that i can watch the film I want to watch, I dont want to buy a duplicate copy on dvd or download just for use with the laptop.

As for using downloads - ill do that when they dont look like ass on a decent home theater setup.
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Apr 29, 2009, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by RevEvs View Post
Hmm lets see.. im going on a weekend away/trip.. i'll take a film with me, pick up a disk and away I go.. o damn its a Blu-Ray.. I cant play it.

I want blu-ray so that i can watch the film I want to watch, I dont want to buy a duplicate copy on dvd or download just for use with the laptop.

As for using downloads - ill do that when they dont look like ass on a decent home theater setup.
Well said.
     
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Apr 29, 2009, 05:04 PM
 
You must look at some very nice looking asses...
     
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Apr 29, 2009, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Quite frankly, all that seems like a rather lame excuse. Blu-ray has been available for quite some time now, on machines that cost far less than MacBook Pros.
That is because the cost of that support is not shouldered by the hardware manufacturer, it is shouldered by MS. It's the software that lets the PC play Blu-Ray, not (just) the hardware. You can get cheap PCs that play Blu-Ray because one half of the cost equation is removed for the people making them. Macs would have to take the burden of both halves.
     
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Apr 30, 2009, 02:20 AM
 
Why are some here trying to find a technical answer to a business question?
     
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Apr 30, 2009, 10:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
That is because the cost of that support is not shouldered by the hardware manufacturer, it is shouldered by MS. It's the software that lets the PC play Blu-Ray, not (just) the hardware. You can get cheap PCs that play Blu-Ray because one half of the cost equation is removed for the people making them. Macs would have to take the burden of both halves.
Last I checked the manufacturers pay MS to put Windows on their machines.

Sorry, but those excuses simply don't fly. The choice not to put BR on a Mac is a business/marketing choice.
     
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Apr 30, 2009, 04:09 PM
 
Blu-Ray burners would be nice, but they are still expensive, slow to burn, and BR disks are huge, and expensive as well.

Even a BR-ROM would be nice so I can rip my BR movies for travelling.
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Apr 30, 2009, 09:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by chabig View Post
I don't miss Blu-ray, and I'm willing to wait and see whether it's successful in the marketplace before I pay big bucks for a player. For the early adopters--get yourself an external drive and you're in business.
We aren't talking about paying big bucks for a player.. We're talking about being able to buy a Mac with a Blu-ray drive in it already. Also.. An external drive will not Play Blu-ray media on a Mac, it will only access it as a data disk. Quite honestly, I'm also suprised there isn't some third party software in place that will do it.
     
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Apr 30, 2009, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by ibook_steve View Post
Apple will not do Blu-Ray anytime soon. Why should they when they want you to buy HD content from iTunes? And what can you do with Blu-Ray other than watching movies? The typical consumer has no need to author Blu-ray disks, so that's all it would do (other than standard DVD functions). Yes, it could be an option, which is probably how it will eventually start out as, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

Steve
Ummm there are quite a few professionals who use macs too.. the average video professional is not only looking to play Bluray's on their macs, but develope and burn them. Apple can not afford to wait any longer on supporting it because iDVD and DVD Studio need to be updated to author these DVD's, let alone play them. They have their work cut out for them if they haven't already planned an update. They will start to lose professional developers if that happens. Good bye Final Cut.

When it does come and it better come with Leopard, then consumers will also benefit.
     
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Apr 30, 2009, 09:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by lysolman View Post
Firstly, why the **** do you need or want 1080p content on a notebook screen. You cannot physically tell the difference between 720p and 1080p with such a small screen. For the differences to be seen with the human eye, you need a bigger screen.
It's not just about resolution, it's about media options. It's nice to know if someone brings a BluRay DVD over, I can play it in addition to DVD


Originally Posted by lysolman View Post
Secondly, what the **** are you doing with discs? What year is it? Really, really!
Solid state mediums are a dying breed, and if you really think that Apple (especially with the iTunes Store) is going to make an enormous effort to get Blu-Ray playback out as soon as possible, you are mistaken
Umm.. it's not just about consumers dude.. It's about professionals. Not only does apple have to include BluRay capability for the professionals who are doing video production, They need to amp up DVD studio (AND iDVD) to be able to author those DVD's. yeah.. i can purchase crappy third party software to do but when I'm done, I can't even watch it on my Mac. If apple does not do this soon, they will start loosing their professionals quickly (this has already been happening!).
     
webraider
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Apr 30, 2009, 09:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
That assumes that Apple wouldn't have to push the price of Macs up to include Blu-Ray drives and to cover the cost of licensing playback of the format. Not to mention the cost of including the crippling DRM scheme for Blu-Ray in the OS necessary to permit (and restrict*) you to playing back the format in the first place. Your $2 "saving" for a disc could cost the majority of us who don't care about Blu-Ray a lot, lot more.

* Don't forget that Blu-Ray DRM prevents you from playing back on anything other than "compliant" screens, and includes lots of other really nasty DRM restrictions.
Okay, first Apple does not have to push the prices up. It's called striking a deal. Dell has not pushed it's prices up to include a BluRay drive in their stuff. Nor do they ship their computers with a Compliant screen as you point out. It's true that a compliant screen is required according to the licensing and this is why Apple has moved to a mini Display port which IS Compliant. It Think Apple has just dropped the ball assuming it wouldn't be as big of a deal and now they are scrambling to catch up as they've done in the past. They have to catch up if they don't want to loose their professional video editors who can barely author a BluRay production on the Mac without having to dual boot into another operating system to finish authoring it and Actually watching it. If that's what apple calls a solution, then maybe we should just buy a windows machine and call it a day.
     
lysolman
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May 1, 2009, 03:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Zeeb View Post
You keep paying $4.99 each for your downloaded movies and I'll keep paying an average of $2 each for my old fashioned blu-ray disc rental. Until the price differential changes I doubt that discs are going to go out anytime soon.

If I have to take a slap here and there from a weird teenager because I like to spend less money so be it.
Sunshine, what I'm suggesting is getting an external Blu-Ray drive and ripping your rented movies temporarily (or permanently if you tell ethics to **** off) to your laptop.

And yes, as much as you want to hang on to your safety blanket, disks are going to go out very soon. Sorry dude.

By the way, I'm insulted that you inferred that I'm a teenager. Why, just because I use foul language? My grammar is impeccable! How dare you!
     
elbles
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May 2, 2009, 04:01 PM
 
One thing people often forget when comparing Blu-Ray to HD content in the iTunes store is you can't quantify something as being HD content just by virtue of it being 1080p. There's a lot more to it than that. When a Blu-Ray disc can hold 50 GB, and an iTunes HD movie is what, 4-5 GB, the quality is going to be nowhere near comparable, almost regardless of what codec is used. You can even see this problem with some DVDs, where the compression rate was increased at the detriment of quality, just so a movie could fit on a single layer.

With the current, widely-distributed Internet technologies across the US right now, downloading HD content cannot match Blu-Ray for quality. Eventually, yes, downloaded content will be able to match Blu-Ray in quality, but a number of technical (more widespread installations of FIOS, et cetera) and economic (cable companies removing download caps that help protect their own content distribution systems) must be overcome before Blu-Ray and other physical media can be considered obsolete by any means.

Of course, I'm someone who cares about quality beyond just hearing "1080p," and that probably puts me in the minority, but still, Apple can be thrown in with the cable companies and their caps, because I think the only reason we haven't seen Blu-Ray in their computers yet is to protect sales via iTunes.
Sean Elble
Current Mac: 15.4" MacBook Pro (Penryn), 2.4 GHz, 4 GB RAM, 200 GB HD, 19" NEC MultiSync 90GX2 LCD, Apple Aluminum Keyboard, Logitech Bluetooth Mouse, Motorola Q9c, 8 GB iPod Touch
Past Macs: 15.2" PowerBook G4, 1.5 GHz 1 GB RAM, 80 GB HD, Mac SE/30, Mac SE
     
   
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