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The official Leopard thread (Page 34)
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Posting Junkie
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Oct 2, 2007, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Yeah...because users aren't downloading changes to the OS...the system isn't being tested, Software Update is.
There is definite changes to the OS. Namely bug-fixes for AirPort etc.

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Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 2, 2007, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
There is definite changes to the OS. Namely bug-fixes for AirPort etc.
Since when has a driver update changed the build number? I'm talking low level changes that require a recompile and a build number change.

Installing drivers or a new app does not constitute OS-level changes.
     
MindFad
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Oct 2, 2007, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
It will help browsing from a distance if the Safari team managed to scale elements in webpages (fonts and widgets will be crisp, images not so much) with the UI. In fact, it'll with a whole lot of apps that don't have fullscreen modes with large text.
You could always Command-+ to make text bigger in Safari to achieve the same thing for "browsing from a distance." The button elements (if not styled) on web pages in the Safari beta resize to fit the larger text (not bigger than their largest size, of course), so maybe that will help.
     
geirisk8
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Oct 2, 2007, 02:44 PM
 
Hey I just installed 9a559 and noticed that Logic 8 doesn't work.

Does anyone know if Apple haven't yet made Logic support Leopard (or vise versa) or do I need to reinstall the whole package ?
     
cybergoober
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Oct 2, 2007, 02:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
There is definite changes to the OS. Namely bug-fixes for AirPort etc.
I can neither confirm nor deny that it did not fix AirPort here…
     
.Neo
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Oct 2, 2007, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Installing drivers or a new app does not constitute OS-level changes.
That depends on what Apple changed and in what location. If they made modificaties to anything inside System/Library/ in order to fix the Airport bugs it are definitely changes on an OS-level.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 2, 2007, 03:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by MindFad View Post
You could always Command-+ to make text bigger in Safari to achieve the same thing for "browsing from a distance." The button elements (if not styled) on web pages in the Safari beta resize to fit the larger text (not bigger than their largest size, of course), so maybe that will help.
It does help. I use it sometimes when I've got a recipe up and I want to follow it from the kitchen. It's inelegant but it gets the job done.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 2, 2007, 03:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
That depends on what Apple changed and in what location. If they made modificaties to anything inside System/Library/ in order to fix the Airport bugs it are definitely changes on an OS-level.
Untrue...if they, say, added a screensaver, has the OS changed? Not really.

The line is blurry but you all know very well I'm talking about low-level changes that may require a recompile (ie the kernel)
     
mudzilla
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Oct 2, 2007, 03:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Untrue...if they, say, added a screensaver, has the OS changed? Not really.
How is a screensaver going to fix Airport troubles?
understand your lives are rubbish
     
.Neo
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
The line is blurry but you all know very well I'm talking about low-level changes that may require a recompile (ie the kernel)
Apple may very well had to do that in order to fix the issues: Replace/modify frameworks that are critical to Mac OS X' networking capabilities.

Somehow I doubt they replaced a .tiff or .icns file somewhere that fixed all of their problems with the Airport.
     
0157988944
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by mudzilla View Post
How is a screensaver going to fix Airport troubles?
     
mudzilla
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by adamfishercox View Post
like duh, I know, he was arguing a point that wasn't really applicable to what he was quoting in the reply...

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Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by mudzilla View Post
like duh, I know, he was arguing a point that wasn't really applicable to what he was quoting in the reply...

How about you open /System/Library/Screen Savers and check out yourself how things can be added to /System/Library and not be considered an OS change.
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by .Neo View Post
Apple may very well had to do that in order to fix the issues: Replace/modify frameworks that are critical to Mac OS X' networking capabilities.

Somehow I doubt they replaced a .tiff or .icns file somewhere that fixed all of their problems with the Airport.
Except only drivers were installed. When frameworks change or when kernels change, you usually get a build number change. While it's possible to install frameworks without a build change, I can't think of any time where Apple has done this...maybe with the exception of QuickTime.
     
mudzilla
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
How about you open /System/Library/Screen Savers and check out yourself how things can be added to /System/Library and not be considered an OS change.
Dude, .Neo mentioned fixing airport drivers, you ignored that and talked about screensavers. I am trying to steer you back on track about whether an airport driver is more like an OS level change.
understand your lives are rubbish
     
0157988944
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:47 PM
 
He wasn't ignoring anything. He was making a point about how things (screensavers were his example) can be added to /System/Library and not be an OS change.
     
mudzilla
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:48 PM
 
understand your lives are rubbish
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by mudzilla View Post
Dude, .Neo mentioned fixing airport drivers, you ignored that and talked about screensavers. I am trying to steer you back on track about whether an airport driver is more like an OS level change.
Wow...slow people are out in full force today.

Let's see if I can explain it to you so you can understand. A driver, like an application or a screensaver, can be installed easily without changes to the underlying OS. They can be placed within the /System/Library folder by installers or Software Update without a build change.

So, yes, it is possible to make changes to /System/Library without making a change to the OS. The proof is driver installation or adding a screensaver to /System/Library.

I am providing examples of /System/Library changes that don't affect the underlying OS.

Is it clear now or do I need to draw you a diagram?

edit: thanks adam You explained everything I said in one sentence.
     
mudzilla
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Oct 2, 2007, 04:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
Wow...slow people are out in full force today.

Let's see if I can explain it to you so you can understand. A driver, like an application or a screensaver, can be installed easily without changes to the underlying OS. They can be placed within the /System/Library folder by installers or Software Update without a build change.

So, yes, it is possible to make changes to /System/Library without making a change to the OS. The proof is driver installation or adding a screensaver to /System/Library.

I am providing examples of /System/Library changes that don't affect the underlying OS.

Is it clear now or do I need to draw you a diagram?
You've finally answered what I wanted to know, which was is an airport driver considered an OS Level change within the blurry line, and you managed to act like an asshat too, bonus points.
understand your lives are rubbish
     
Horsepoo!!!
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Oct 2, 2007, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by mudzilla View Post
You've finally answered what I wanted to know, which was is an airport driver considered an OS Level change within the blurry line, and you managed to act like an asshat too, bonus points.
So this...
Since when has a driver update changed the build number? I'm talking low level changes that require a recompile and a build number change.
...wasn't enough to answer your question?

It's ok to be a little slow. Don't worry. Nobody will hold it out against ya.
     
.Neo
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Oct 2, 2007, 05:55 PM
 
haha no sweat Horsepoo!!! (interesting choice for a nick btw), I misread your first post regarding this.
     
0157988944
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Oct 2, 2007, 06:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by mudzilla View Post
You've finally answered what I wanted to know, which was is an airport driver considered an OS Level change within the blurry line, and you managed to act like an asshat too, bonus points.
He was never trying to answer your question. And an asshat begets an asshat.
     
unhappyending
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Oct 2, 2007, 07:01 PM
 
I'm a bit impatient now... Let's hope Apple releases a date it's coming out soon, I can't want...
 Mac mini 1.66GHz Intel Core Duo, OS X 10.5.3, 1GB Ram.
 iMac G3 350MHz PowerPC G3, OS X 10.3.9, 256MB Ram
     
Kevin
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Oct 2, 2007, 07:57 PM
 
     
- - e r i k - -
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Oct 2, 2007, 08:23 PM
 
Wow...that sure spawned a pretty retarded debate....

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Kevin
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Oct 2, 2007, 08:29 PM
 
Baby I can't wait bum dum dum da da da da da
     
Chongo
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Oct 3, 2007, 12:30 AM
 
     
mudzilla
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Oct 3, 2007, 02:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! View Post
So this...


...wasn't enough to answer your question?

It's ok to be a little slow. Don't worry. Nobody will hold it out against ya.
Horsepoo, to be honest with you "Since when has a driver update changed the build number? I'm talking low level changes that require a recompile and a build number change." sounds more like a question, not a definitive answer, and it sounds like a question fired to someone who understands the build number routines, unlike 95% of us on here.

Sorry about calling you an asshat, but there is no need to be rude with the "slow people", "speak clearly" and "diagrams" sketches and implying I'm a retard.

peace
mud
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analogika
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Oct 3, 2007, 05:10 AM
 
Can this thread now be about Leopard again please?

Thank you.
     
Kevin
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Oct 3, 2007, 06:32 AM
 
Agreed and seconded.
     
mudzilla
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Oct 3, 2007, 06:35 AM
 
OK, how about the cut off point of a G4 800Mhz. Any early and Leopard is a no go?

Doesn't affect me for production Macs, but an old dual 533 G4 used as small in-office will be staying on Tiger.
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analogika
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Oct 3, 2007, 06:48 AM
 
Originally Posted by mudzilla View Post
OK, how about the cut off point of a G4 800Mhz. Any early and Leopard is a no go?
867 MHz.

Any earlier and Leopard is NOT SUPPORTED, so you're on your own if you manage to install it.

BIG difference.
     
Kevin
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Oct 3, 2007, 09:27 AM
 
Yeah there will be a hack that lets you install it on older computers I am sure.

Glad to see my G4 1.25ghz is still being supported. I've had it almost as long as I used my G3. I skipped the G5 all-together at home. I have one at work however.

So both my work, and home computers are supported.

I wont (can't) go Intel till all Adobe apps are intel native.
     
newsushi
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Oct 3, 2007, 09:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post

I wont (can't) go Intel till all Adobe apps are intel native.
Welcome to the year 2007, when Adobe apps ARE intel native.
     
Chongo
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Oct 3, 2007, 10:36 AM
 
It is October, where is Leopard?

( Last edited by Chongo; Oct 3, 2007 at 10:44 AM. )
     
eggman
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Oct 3, 2007, 10:47 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
It is October, where is Leopard?
It is October, where is Halloween?
     
Kevin
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Originally Posted by newsushi View Post
Welcome to the year 2007, when Adobe apps ARE intel native.
They are? I am sorry, I don't have a Intel machine to really keep up on what is or what is not. But thanks for the anyhow. It helps a lot.

     
newsushi
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Oct 3, 2007, 11:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Kevin View Post
But thanks for the anyhow. It helps a lot.



I know these things because I continually invent reasons why I can't upgrade.
Intel switch announced: Can't upgrade until Intel architecture bugs are worked out.
Intel Bugs smoothed: Can't upgrade until CS3 comes out
CS3 released: Can't upgrade until a MBP is revised.
MBP revised: But .. but .. but .. Leopard!

So once Leopard is released, I really will upgrade ... probably
     
CharlesS
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Oct 3, 2007, 12:03 PM
 
never mind
     
Kevin
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Originally Posted by newsushi View Post


I know these things because I continually invent reasons why I can't upgrade.
Intel switch announced: Can't upgrade until Intel architecture bugs are worked out.
Intel Bugs smoothed: Can't upgrade until CS3 comes out
CS3 released: Can't upgrade until a MBP is revised.
MBP revised: But .. but .. but .. Leopard!

So once Leopard is released, I really will upgrade ... probably
Yeah I have plans on getting an Intel Mac in 2008. Probably a mini or whatever is in that same price range.
     
- - e r i k - -
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Oct 3, 2007, 05:28 PM
 
Oh yes. CS3 is fully native. And even better under Leopard. Photoshop CS3 (re)-launches in two seconds! On an iMac! Count them: One, two. Not even Photoshop 1.0 launched that fast

Initial launch is less than ten seconds.

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0157988944
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Oct 3, 2007, 07:15 PM
 
Apple Store down. FRACTAL PANICZ~!

...no, I'm not sure what induced that.
     
Kevin
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Oct 3, 2007, 08:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Oh yes. CS3 is fully native. And even better under Leopard. Photoshop CS3 (re)-launches in two seconds! On an iMac! Count them: One, two. Not even Photoshop 1.0 launched that fast

Initial launch is less than ten seconds.
BOOOM!
     
analogue SPRINKLES
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Oct 3, 2007, 10:17 PM
 
Geez if they want this in stores by halloween it had better go GM within the next week.
     
earthlings
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Oct 3, 2007, 10:51 PM
 
Waiting patiently for Leopard.
     
xe0
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Oct 4, 2007, 03:52 AM
 
Waiting impatiently for Leopard.
     
Kevin
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Geez if they want this in stores by halloween it had better go GM within the next week.
They will probably ANNOUNCE it this month. Then sales will start beginning of Nov.
     
mdc
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Oct 4, 2007, 10:40 AM
 
AppleInsider | Apple announcements brewing for late October
The report says the date is between the 22nd and the 27th (Monday to Saturday). Maybe an event on the 23rd (Tuesday) with a 26th (Friday) release?
     
ESLP
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Oct 4, 2007, 12:02 PM
 
Hi
New on iMac, just installed it and running way faster then vista, OK I do use Pralle with vista for Microsoft office but all of th eret is done via iMac, wow what a breeze need to get a mind change but will come for sure

Now for Leopard, what is Apple policy for people like me that have bought an iMac winthin a few weeks of a new OS release will tehy like Microsoft give you the opportunity to upgrade at no cost???????

good question

let me know
     
mdc
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Oct 4, 2007, 12:07 PM
 
1. Microsoft Office is available for the Mac. It is compatible with Windows files.

2. In the past Apple has offered the new OS to people who bought a new Mac after they annouce the official release date. Apple has yet to announce anything other than "October" so as of today, no one is getting a free copy of 10.5.
     
 
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