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In 2010, why are Macs better than PCs?
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The Godfather
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Apr 21, 2010, 01:22 PM
 
Given that the "I'm a Mac, I'm a PC" commercials are gone, Lauren, while bringing me breakfast in bed, started doubting the Steve One Way. "What do my laptop hunters get in return for the Apple tax (between $125 and $750 per year)?", she asked. My pimp hand stayed down, luckily.

Which of these are important to you?
* virus free operation
* iLife included
* Junior won't be wasting time with videogames
* sexy looks

I don't think I missed anything. However I am fallible, believe it or not.
( Last edited by The Godfather; Apr 21, 2010 at 02:15 PM. )
     
nonhuman
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Apr 21, 2010, 01:36 PM
 
If by 'PC' you mean 'Windows' then you also get a rock-solid BSD-based UNIX operating system.
     
Phileas
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Apr 21, 2010, 01:37 PM
 
What Apple tax? If you compare like for like, prices are remarkably similar.

And when it comes to re-sell time, your Mac will actually have some value left. For me it is still the "just works" operation of the Mac.
     
sek929
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Apr 21, 2010, 01:46 PM
 
My uptime crested 40 days recently, even my buddy's brand new Vista machine sh!ts the bed at least once a week.

It just works, and I don't have to fiddle with it....ever.

I've re-installed all flavors of Windows across dozens of machines over the years, the number of times I've had to nuke and pave a Mac, zero.

That is easily worth the price of admission.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 21, 2010, 01:48 PM
 
I was able to get 5+ months uptime out of a MacBook that constantly travelled. it finally shit the bed, mostly thanks to Safari and Finder's awful RAM management, else I'd have been able to go on forever.
     
sek929
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Apr 21, 2010, 01:55 PM
 
Just checked my 9 year old PMG4, which is now my dad's computer.

Uptime: 76 days

Not bad for a dinosaur running an OS that was released 5 years ago being used by a 60 year old man with little computer experience.
     
Laminar
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Apr 21, 2010, 02:41 PM
 
Just Works.

QuickLook.

To name a couple.
     
-Q-
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Apr 21, 2010, 02:48 PM
 
Expose.
     
Big Mac
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Apr 21, 2010, 02:53 PM
 
*Superiority of OS X/preference for OS X over Windows
*Superiority of OS X software and workflow
*Microsoft-free experience/supporting the only alternative consumer computing platform

Windows 7 is a really nice release of Windows, and if I were forced to use it all the time I could definitely get by. But I still strongly prefer OS X.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
voodoo
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Apr 21, 2010, 03:30 PM
 
Macs are more predictable by virtue of being made by the same company that makes the OS.

.. besides, Macs can run Windows if that's what you want. Though your Peezoid box won't run Mac OS without haxx0ring. And who wants that?
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hayesk
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Apr 21, 2010, 04:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by -Q- View Post
Expose.


People forget that it's all about letting you get your work done. A consistent, well functioning UI that is there when you need it, and gets out of your way is crucial to that. Apple's isn't perfect, but currently, the Apple's UI sucks less than Microsoft's UI.

Exposé is a great advantage - MS's new "snap" feature is useless - repositioning your windows when you are going to work in them is trivial? What isn't trivial is after you've repositioned your windows to work, you need to access a file on your desktop or another window.
     
seanc
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Apr 21, 2010, 04:13 PM
 
While I'm an avid Mac fan and would love for my parents and friends to get along with them, I can live without it.
I don't understand why they are so prevalent in the graphic design industry. CS5 will quite happily run on my PC.

Windows 7 is a really nice release, the only issues I have on my PC are related to RAM usage, that's mainly down to Firefox hogging all of it, Outlook and Word are the next biggest culprits. Needs 4GB.

I'm a strong believer that every job has the right tool, my Mac cannot meet them all, neither can my PC running Windows 7 or my PC running Ubuntu, I switch between them all as I need to.
     
Laminar
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Apr 21, 2010, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by seanc View Post
While I'm an avid Mac fan and would love for my parents and friends to get along with them, I can live without it.
I don't understand why they are so prevalent in the graphic design industry. CS5 will quite happily run on my PC.
I've heard rumors of color reproduction superiority.
     
Paco500
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Apr 21, 2010, 04:54 PM
 
Better, higher quality applications for what I spend most of my time doing- with the exception of web browsing- that is still a better experience on Windows IMO.
     
Laminar
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Apr 21, 2010, 05:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Better, higher quality applications for what I spend most of my time doing- with the exception of web browsing- that is still a better experience on Windows IMO.
Besides Flash, what advantage does Windows have? It's pretty easy to tell when a web browser screenshot has been taken on OS X or on Windows (even a partial screenshot) based on the smoothness of text rendering.
     
turtle777
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Apr 21, 2010, 05:07 PM
 
In almost 15 years of Macs, I *NEVER* had a fatal OS crash that forced me to start with a new install.

All fresh OS installs were on my terms.

I doubt you'd get that with Windows in 15 years.

-t
     
SpaceMonkey
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Apr 21, 2010, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Besides Flash, what advantage does Windows have?
That alone is a pretty big advantage these days IMO.

"One ticket to Washington, please. I have a date with destiny."
     
voodoo
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Apr 21, 2010, 05:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
That alone is a pretty big advantage these days IMO.
Sure it is, if you use Flash much. Windows has a clear advantage in games as well. Many applications run only on Windows or better on Windows.

Still, I do prefer the Macintosh. Crappy Finder and all.
I could take Sean Connery in a fight... I could definitely take him.
     
Laminar
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Apr 21, 2010, 05:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
That alone is a pretty big advantage these days IMO.
My three year old Mini can do Hulu and YouTube in HD, so I'm not sure where the real advantage is, unless you're talking about games.
     
MacinTommy
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Apr 21, 2010, 05:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
My uptime crested 40 days recently, even my buddy's brand new Vista machine sh!ts the bed at least once a week.

It just works, and I don't have to fiddle with it....ever.

I've re-installed all flavors of Windows across dozens of machines over the years, the number of times I've had to nuke and pave a Mac, zero.

That is easily worth the price of admission.
QUESTION: I know how to look at current uptime, but is there a way to look at previous uptime(s)? My iMac literally shut off by itself last night while I was working on a final paper. Luckily it recovered but I was just wondering if I could see what the 'uptime' was at that point.
     
finboy
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Apr 21, 2010, 05:58 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
In almost 15 years of Macs, I *NEVER* had a fatal OS crash that forced me to start with a new install.

All fresh OS installs were on my terms.

I doubt you'd get that with Windows in 15 years.

-t
I've had a couple, who knows why. Not until OS X did I have those. If X breaks, it can be really really broken.

Main advantage to MacOS is backup and restore capability. Stability on top of that I guess. But the ability to image and reboot is wonderful.

Main disadvantage is lack of MS Office compatibility. For years I thought it was just because I wanted to run a little earlier version of everything, etc. It was MY fault. Earlier this year I finally saw the light -- it's Mac Office's fault. I can't go back and forth, no matter how nice MacOS is, and lose changes, formatting etc. every time I open a document between Office 2007 and Office 2008. It's just too much hassle. I spend more time on my BootCamp partition nowadays than anything else --- in fact I went weeks without booting into OSX, and only then broke trend to update my iPod.

As much as I hate Microsoft, and as much as I hate MS Office, it's all we've got and I can't deal with the heartbreak of random incompatibilities between platforms anymore. So my use of OS X is limited for now.

Secondary disadvantage of Mac: Macbooks are flimsy and fragile. At least the white ones are. Lots of PCs are too, but these things stand out as fragile to me. We really have to baby ours to keep them together.

Huge advantage and trend, though: I see Macs everywhere I go. I've been to the coffee shop to work all day plenty of times when 3/4 of the notebooks in there were Macs. Nice to see. For those of us who remember the Dark Ages, it's really nice to see Apple leading everyone (in trend at least) again. I'm happy for the brand.
     
sek929
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Apr 21, 2010, 06:00 PM
 
I have very little experience with the MacBook, but in my travels the Mac laptops were always some of the highest quality notebooks out there.
     
mattyb
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Apr 21, 2010, 06:31 PM
 
The OS works. Why does it work? Because the OS developer specifies the hardware that it should run on. Its the same in the high end server space as well, the best OSes run on hardware that is (basically) specified for it.

A guy at work said 'If you're fed up with hacking Linux to make it work, then get a Mac'. He was so right.
     
finboy
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Apr 21, 2010, 06:47 PM
 
Another advantage: they're useful for longer periods of time than a PC. Macs have been that way for years. PCs get outmoded too quickly, although that's leveling off I guess.

Example: My Pismo is still a wonderful machine. Very useful. My toilet seat iBook too. Can't say that about PCs.
     
BlueSky
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Apr 21, 2010, 07:01 PM
 
Mac OS doesn't look like it was designed by a code geek.
     
Salty
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Apr 21, 2010, 09:04 PM
 
#1 It works differently Windows.
The different interface paradigms things like the Dock, the general lay out of apps (Menu, title bar, buttons, secondary controls, content) mean that each app isn't always training a user how to use it, but rather allowing a user to get to work. Things like Exposé, the fact that rather than focusing on a Window/Screen paradigm, users rather are made to think in terms of apps having their own space is great.

#2 Hardware consistencies, the fact is trouble shooting a Mac is pretty dang easy, worst case if you can't just reimage from the restore disk, you can always boot up in Target Mode. Fact is in general there are just a few things that can go wrong. On Windows there's so many more things that could be the problem, with OS X, is your file system corrupt? Bad RAM? Permissions issue? Other than that they're pretty rare.

#3 Included Software, for me not a huge thing, but the fact that my mom recently wanted to convert some books on tape from tape to CD, teaching her to do it in GarageBand and iTunes was shockingly easy. The fact that a middle aged woman can do that now on her own with the included software is just priceless. This is also the same woman who can not figure out a VCR.

#4 A greater consideration of users is given in the creation of Apple's products. Apple would rather users be able to find tasks easy so they can learn how they work, as opposed to learn how they work so they can then complete the tasks. OS X makes setting up most things a lot easier than on Windows. It's rather common for me to know how something is working, but you put a PC in front of me and it'll take me much longer to find the correct settings to make it do what I want it to do.

In general the Mac just is a better experience, and it's very common for older people or the non tech savvy to just pick up a Mac and run with it. In a lot of cases that's just because they've been told that they don't need to worry about viruses. When you tell a person that the computer is pretty hard to break they get a lot better confidence. When instead you're nagging them with security dialogues every ten seconds that conditions them to be afraid of your computer.

I guess you could say, the Mac is kinda huggable.
     
d4nth3m4n
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Apr 21, 2010, 10:50 PM
 
because if she had a PC, I wouldn't get all the "Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Fwd:Amazing pictures" emails from my grandmother.
     
tooki
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Apr 22, 2010, 10:31 AM
 
Now that I use Windows regularly at work, to me it boils down to the Mac platform having an established culture of user focus, whereas Windows' culture is one of developer focus. On Windows, you are constantly reminded that this was a system designed to not encumber a developer at any time with respect to backwards compatibility. Ironically, though, the Windows APIs give a developer far less to work with, under the premise of "assume developers aren't lazy", so they have to spend a lot of time re-inventing GUI widgets, causing them to never work quite right.

In the end, the user loses, be it with inconsistent behaviors between apps, excessive maintenance requirements, or featuritis that requires you to dedicate far too much mental energy on the computer rather than on the task you're trying to accomplish.

The other thing I've noticed is that Windows (even Win7) does not stay responsive under load. Mac OS X handles this FAR better.
     
Laminar
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Apr 22, 2010, 11:06 AM
 
     
sek929
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Apr 22, 2010, 01:06 PM
 
Honestly, the only time I ever see that beach ball is with flash video and a page full of animated gifs. So mostly web-based.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 22, 2010, 01:10 PM
 
iTunes beachballs for a few seconds every ****ing time I sync my iPod.
     
sek929
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Apr 22, 2010, 01:12 PM
 
iTunes is program I hate more with each revision, IMHO SoundJam MP was a far better music app.

iTunes tries to do too much.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 22, 2010, 01:14 PM
 
Nah, I love iTunes. It just doesn't handle multi-tasking within it too well.
     
hayesk
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Apr 22, 2010, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
Nah, I love iTunes. It just doesn't handle multi-tasking within it too well.
It handles background importing and store operations quite well. I can download stuff and move on while it is still downloading. It's when I connect devices that it seizes up for a few seconds.
     
osiris
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Apr 22, 2010, 03:56 PM
 
I like the reliability of my Mac systems in terms of hardware and software. The OS is just amazing and as close to perfect as it gets.

Windows seems to go out of the way to be in your face - even the apps written for Macs (5 or 6 'continues' to update Office 2008?!?).

There is definitely a different philosophy at work here - with OS X the focus is on the user. Windows cares more about Microsoft.

Who am I kidding - I'm typing this on a VIC-20, and I have no idea what any of you are talking about.
"Faster, faster! 'Till the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death." - HST
     
seanc
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Apr 22, 2010, 05:35 PM
 
iTunes likes to use both of my cores at 100% usage on Windows when downloading from the store.
     
Paco500
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Apr 23, 2010, 04:45 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
My three year old Mini can do Hulu and YouTube in HD, so I'm not sure where the real advantage is, unless you're talking about games.
I have a 18 month old MB Air that has serious issues with flash based sites- I suppose it's my fault for buying an underpowered laptop- but in boot camp, those sites are just fine. I get it's an Adobe issue rather than an apple issue, but it affects me nonetheless.

I have boot camp because there are quite a few work web sites that are windows (IE actually) only. This sucks, but is a reality. I've never had a site I can't view properly on Windows- there still exists those I can't get working on my mac.

It's small and nowhere near enough to make me switch- but it's one area that affects me that I thought was worth mentioning.

Couldn't give a toss about games.
     
Eriamjh
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Apr 23, 2010, 12:01 PM
 
The unibody MBPs are amazing to handle and use. Worth every penny.

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Doofy
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Apr 23, 2010, 12:37 PM
 
in 2010, Macs are better than PCs because...

who would want a computer that only runs software made/licensed by its manufacturer-and consequently costing an arm and a leg?
Comments, page 2:
McAfee antivirus program fault causes millions of PCs to shut down | Mail Online

(Basically, we run Macs because we're not morons. )
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finboy
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Apr 23, 2010, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by tooki View Post
The other thing I've noticed is that Windows (even Win7) does not stay responsive under load. Mac OS X handles this FAR better.
You ain't kidding, brother. It's all about latency with both 7 and Vista, from what I've seen. Granted, my MacBook at work has only 1G, and it's very slow sometimes, but even hot PCs with lotsa RAM choke and turn blue with the newer Win systems. And I've found nothing to fix that.

My Vista machine likes to routinely just sit there and look at me while I'm trying to actually get work done. Worse than that, if I hold my mouth in the wrong expression, the screen will turn transparent with a white wash and THEN sit there for an undetermined amount of time.

Wish I could run Office 2007 on OS X.
     
The Final Dakar
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Apr 23, 2010, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by hayesk View Post
It handles background importing and store operations quite well.
Doing those two at the same time doesn't go well for me.
     
The Godfather  (op)
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Apr 23, 2010, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by finboy View Post
You ain't kidding, brother. It's all about latency with both 7 and Vista, from what I've seen. Granted, my MacBook at work has only 1G, and it's very slow sometimes, but even hot PCs with lotsa RAM choke and turn blue with the newer Win systems. And I've found nothing to fix that.

My Vista machine likes to routinely just sit there and look at me while I'm trying to actually get work done. Worse than that, if I hold my mouth in the wrong expression, the screen will turn transparent with a white wash and THEN sit there for an undetermined amount of time.

Wish I could run Office 2007 on OS X.
It's your fault for sticking to Vista.

The Mac/PC commercials are finito because Win7 doesn't have any critical disadvantages over 10.7
     
besson3c
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:05 PM
 
Honestly, I think for most people in 2010 it doesn't really matter a whole lot. The Mac/PC wars haven't changed dramatically in terms of the arguments for either side, and the arguments don't really matter a whole lot to most people.

Use OS X if you like the application centric model, you prefer OS X for whatever set of reasons or can work faster there, or there is an app there you want to use. Use Windows if you prefer the document centric model, you prefer Windows, or there is an app there you want to use.

It's about the apps and getting work done. Most people don't do the kind of work where the differences in platforms really makes a whole lot of difference, especially if they are used to something already. An argument can be made in favor of Macs when it goes to viruses, but learning how to protect your machine from viruses on Windows is just part of the learning curve in using that OS just like using the dock is part of OS X.

I'm also not sure I buy the argument that Macs are inherently more secure than Windows machines any longer. I don't think Apple takes their security as seriously as Mac users think.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
It's your fault for sticking to Vista.

The Mac/PC commercials are finito because Win7 doesn't have any critical disadvantages over 10.7
Few that can be put succinctly in a thirty-second ad.

The usability concept that pervades the entire Mac interface and dictates how apps work (with notable exceptions like Office and Adobe) is still a *huge* advantage.

There was a slew of iLife-themed Get a Mac ads that still hold true.
     
Doofy
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Few that can be put succinctly in a thirty-second ad.
Just show 'em a multi-screen spaces do-da for five seconds.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:26 PM
 
Oh, also, Metric Halo interfaces don't run with Windows.

Windows FAIL.
     
scaught
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by sek929 View Post
I've re-installed all flavors of Windows across dozens of machines over the years, the number of times I've had to nuke and pave a Mac, zero.
What about OS9? hahah.
     
Doofy
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Oh, also, Metric Halo interfaces don't run with Windows.

Windows FAIL.
And yer two best bits of writing/sequencing workhorse software don't work Windows either.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:41 PM
 
I'll give you ProTools, but I'm not so sure about Logic, if that's what you meant.

I've been beating my head at it lately for bizarre MIDI-related bugs too much to trust it.
     
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Apr 23, 2010, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I'll give you ProTools, but I'm not so sure about Logic, if that's what you meant.
ForFools does actually do Windows.
DP and Logic for me.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I've been beating my head at it lately for bizarre MIDI-related bugs too much to trust it.
Yeah. I don't trust it either. Nice and fast for writing, but when it comes time for properly working it, export to DP.
Apple don't want you to work OTB - they want you to buy and node a few more Macs - which is why they ain't too fussed about making sure the MIDI works.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
That's where there's thunder... and the wind shouts back.
     
 
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