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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Jaycee Dugard: How Could a Person Be Kidnapped in a Backyard for 18 Years?

Jaycee Dugard: How Could a Person Be Kidnapped in a Backyard for 18 Years?
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freudling
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Jun 2, 2011, 02:13 PM
 
Ms Dugard was kept with her two daughters, now 13 and 16, in the backyard of the Garrido home in Antioch, California, in a compound of tents and sheds.

"I hated every second of every day for 18 years," she added. "You stole my life and that of my family."

Kept in a backyard in tents and sheds? Something isn't adding up, surely 3 human beings, 1 well into her 20s by the time she was released, could have escaped a backyard in California?

Yes, I understand their could be psychological turmoil that trapped her there... lynch me now but she seems like she's playing the victim.

BBC News - Jaycee Dugard kidnap: Victim rues 'stolen life'
     
Laminar
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Jun 2, 2011, 05:38 PM
 
A lot of people work a shit job and hate every day of their life for 18 years and don't come out with 20mil and a book deal.
     
calverson
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Jun 2, 2011, 09:46 PM
 
Yeah, I mean, a lot of people's shitty jobs involves being tied up and being raped and then having children they didn't want to have with their, err... employee?
     
calverson
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Jun 2, 2011, 09:52 PM
 
From: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13007912
The 18 counts faced by the pair include kidnapping for sexual purposes, rape, lewd acts on a child, false imprisonment and production of child pornography with the victim, according to the indictment document.
In addition, Garrido is charged in relation to special allegations stemming from a 1977 rape conviction, including being a habitual sex offender.
Garrido is accused of fathering Ms Dugard's two daughters while keeping her captive in a hidden garden behind their house.
Sounds like the average white-collar job to me.
     
OldManMac
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Jun 2, 2011, 10:04 PM
 
Nothing needs to add up; she saw the world differently than you do, and it did happen. While this isn't common, it happens. If you recall, an Austrian man kept his daughter in a dungeon in his backyard and had several children with her, while his wife was unaware of what was happening, believing his tale that the daughter had run away. The world isn't always black and white.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
Atheist
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Jun 3, 2011, 07:08 AM
 
The odd bit is that Jaycee had contact with the outside world while in captivity. Her kidnapper operated a printing shop from his home and Jaycee worked as a graphic designer. She had access to email and talked with customers on the phone. She even met at least one customer in person at the house. Yet she never attempted to notify anyone about her situation.
     
Macrobat
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Jun 3, 2011, 03:36 PM
 
Kinda like the rape victims who don't realize they've been raped until the check bounces?
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calverson
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Jun 3, 2011, 05:47 PM
 
Aren't those called 'whores'?
     
Macrobat
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Jun 3, 2011, 05:54 PM
 
Can't fool you
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andi*pandi
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Jun 3, 2011, 06:18 PM
 
An 11-year-old was kidnapped, raped, and was robbed of her life. Not a joke.
     
calverson
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Jun 3, 2011, 06:21 PM
 
Not saying it is a laughing matter, but there are parts of it that don't make sense. I would think that most people kidnapped and raped would fight for their life to escape. I would.
     
ghporter
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Jun 3, 2011, 08:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by calverson View Post
Not saying it is a laughing matter, but there are parts of it that don't make sense. I would think that most people kidnapped and raped would fight for their life to escape. I would.
True, most adults probably would. But this little girl was also the victim of some rather intense psychological abuse-they had her convinced that if she were to utter a word about her situation that they would kill her, and that they were able to know what she thought when she was thinking it, just to keep her under control. So when you put the physical, sexual, and psychological abuse all together, you see that the case is not nearly as simple as a single headline.

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ghporter
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Jun 3, 2011, 08:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Macrobat View Post
Kinda like the rape victims who don't realize they've been raped until the check bounces?
Your post is extremely offensive. It is this kind of attitude that has kept victims from reporting heinous crimes. Catch up to the late 20th Century, and realize that the attitude you posted is as obsolete as phlogiston theory.

If your post was an attempt at humor, you missed.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
calverson
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Jun 3, 2011, 08:26 PM
 
Some people just like to troll... (don't look at ME like that)
     
ghporter
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Jun 3, 2011, 08:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by calverson View Post
Some people just like to troll... (don't look at ME like that)
True. But there's trolling, and then there is plumbing the depths, which needs an appropriate response.

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OldManMac
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Jun 3, 2011, 11:07 PM
 
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
jtd
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Jun 3, 2011, 11:57 PM
 
I first read this story while I was at work, and I really thought to myself, "Why didn't she just run away?"

I still don't buy into the fact that she is so brainwashed that she couldn't. They would make trips into highly populated places with Garrido posing absolutely no potential harm/threat to her well being. She could have easily yelled into a group of people about getting help or just running to the closest security personnel.
     
screener
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Jun 4, 2011, 05:16 AM
 
The old, I wouldn't let it happen to me schtick.
Real easy judging someone from the outside.
Your post is extremely offensive. It is this kind of attitude that has kept victims from reporting heinous crimes. Catch up to the late 20th Century, and realize that the attitude you posted is as obsolete as phlogiston theory.
Exactly.
     
OldManMac
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Jun 4, 2011, 08:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by jtd View Post
I first read this story while I was at work, and I really thought to myself, "Why didn't she just run away?"

I still don't buy into the fact that she is so brainwashed that she couldn't. They would make trips into highly populated places with Garrido posing absolutely no potential harm/threat to her well being. She could have easily yelled into a group of people about getting help or just running to the closest security personnel.
Unfortunately, it seems you don't understand much about psychology. The world isn't all black and white.
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
jtd
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Jun 4, 2011, 10:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by OldManMac View Post
Unfortunately, it seems you don't understand much about psychology. The world isn't all black and white.
I will accept that I don't understand much if anything about psychology. It is just so hard to believe that someone can be this brainwashed.
     
Wiskedjak
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Jun 4, 2011, 10:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by calverson View Post
Not saying it is a laughing matter, but there are parts of it that don't make sense. I would think that most people kidnapped and raped would fight for their life to escape. I would.
If you control a person's knowledge, you control how they think.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 4, 2011, 12:54 PM
 
America: blame everyone else for your problems and seek millions $ in damages.

Yes, I empathize with her. She was manipulated at a young age. But I'm so sick of people playing the victim and feeling sorry for themselves. There are so many people with crap lives that seek something better on their own and take responsibility for their lives.

Her book deal and millions in compensation smacks as someone playing the victim. Sorry, it may sound harsh, but she needs to get over herself.
     
subego
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Jun 4, 2011, 04:50 PM
 
Let me get this straight...

The best example you can come up with of someone playing the victim is a girl who was kidnapped by a cult she was 11 and then raped for the next eighteen years?
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 4, 2011, 10:01 PM
 
I'm now convinced freudling is a bot.
     
OldManMac
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Jun 4, 2011, 11:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I'm now convinced freudling is a bot.
Plus 1
Why is there always money for war, but none for education?
     
screener
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Jun 5, 2011, 06:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by andi*pandi View Post
I'm now convinced freudling is a bot.
Nah, typical right winger hiding behind "compassionate".
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 5, 2011, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Let me get this straight...

The best example you can come up with of someone playing the victim is a girl who was kidnapped by a cult she was 11 and then raped for the next eighteen years?
Plus 6.
     
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Jun 5, 2011, 03:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
The odd bit is that Jaycee had contact with the outside world while in captivity. Her kidnapper operated a printing shop from his home and Jaycee worked as a graphic designer. She had access to email and talked with customers on the phone. She even met at least one customer in person at the house. Yet she never attempted to notify anyone about her situation.
Some form of Stockholm Syndrome, perhaps? There's also the fact that it wasn't just Jaycee, but the lives of her two daughters at stake as well, and certainly her captors probably held their safety over her.

Have to agree with others that there's psychology going on with cases like this that none of us who haven't gone through it ourselves can so easily dismiss.

And claiming she's 'playing victim' is a disgusting charge.
     
subego
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Jun 5, 2011, 03:56 PM
 
My understanding is it boils down to Pavlovian conditioning.

1) You don't act up, you get a treat.
2) You act up, you and your daughters get beaten and raped.
3) Repeat.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jun 5, 2011, 05:19 PM
 
Plus, how does a kid know that the cops are there to help them? It's part of the life education kids get from their parents. It's a safe bet that her captors weren't teaching her things like "if you get in trouble, you can ask a police man for help." At 11 years old, you're only just starting to develop a knowledge of what the world outside your house has in store for you. If the parental guidance isn't there, you really can't expect a kid to know which strangers are going to help you escape, and which ones are going to tell on you or kidnap you to an even worse place. It's likely that talking to strangers is what got her kidnapped in the first place, so to expect her to approach more strangers to get her out of it... that's not a logical strategy from the perspective of her life experience.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 5, 2011, 06:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Plus, how does a kid know that the cops are there to help them? It's part of the life education kids get from their parents. It's a safe bet that her captors weren't teaching her things like "if you get in trouble, you can ask a police man for help." At 11 years old, you're only just starting to develop a knowledge of what the world outside your house has in store for you. If the parental guidance isn't there, you really can't expect a kid to know which strangers are going to help you escape, and which ones are going to tell on you or kidnap you to an even worse place. It's likely that talking to strangers is what got her kidnapped in the first place, so to expect her to approach more strangers to get her out of it... that's not a logical strategy from the perspective of her life experience.
It was 18 years in captivity. She wasn't 11 years old frozen in time.

She's 30+ now. The compensation and book deal is bullshit. Half the world is starving.
     
Atheist
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Jun 5, 2011, 06:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Some form of Stockholm Syndrome, perhaps? There's also the fact that it wasn't just Jaycee, but the lives of her two daughters at stake as well, and certainly her captors probably held their safety over her.

Have to agree with others that there's psychology going on with cases like this that none of us who haven't gone through it ourselves can so easily dismiss.

And claiming she's 'playing victim' is a disgusting charge.
I agree... and in no way was I intimating Jaycee was anything but a victim. Just stating that for us laymen on the outside looking in... it seems odd behavior.
     
screener
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Jun 5, 2011, 07:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
It was 18 years in captivity. She wasn't 11 years old frozen in time.

She's 30+ now. The compensation and book deal is bullshit. Half the world is starving.
Right, she sought out a book deal, geezus, what is wrong with you.
You should be grateful she's not on the public teat.
What is wrong with you.
     
CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Jun 5, 2011, 07:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
I agree... and in no way was I intimating Jaycee was anything but a victim. Just stating that for us laymen on the outside looking in... it seems odd behavior.
I should have noted that I was only responding to your quote with the first sentence- the rest just a comment in general, not aimed at you.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jun 5, 2011, 10:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
It was 18 years in captivity. She wasn't 11 years old frozen in time.
Her frame of reference isn't going to get more normal as time goes on. If anything it would get worse.
     
ghporter
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Jun 6, 2011, 06:52 AM
 
I would be far more skeptical of Jaycee "seeking out" anything like a book deal. More likely to me is that she "weeded out" a number of offers and settled on one. 18 years of captivity as a convenient rape victim isn't the kind of thing that makes a person business savvy, nor that makes a person aware of the commercial possibilities posed by her "amazing story."

It is very uncommon to encounter a situation like this, so of course it's not "well understood" by most of the public. A while back a German man was prosecuted for keeping his own daughter in similar conditions-along with fathering his own grandchildren, but it wasn't big in the US press so many of us didn't get as much of the details as we're getting in this case. A young person's psyche is very flexible, and when assaulted this way, it's not uncommon for odd things to happen. Like a pre-teen believing the nut-job that kidnapped her actually has the magical powers he claims to have...especially when he has a stun gun and physical control of her entire environment.

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subego
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Jun 6, 2011, 03:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
I would be far more skeptical of Jaycee "seeking out" anything like a book deal. More likely to me is that she "weeded out" a number of offers and settled on one.
I think calling it weeding might even be going too far. My spider-senses tell me she kept on saying no because she didn't want to do it, so they kept on jacking up the offer.
     
ghporter
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Jun 7, 2011, 06:24 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I think calling it weeding might even be going too far. My spider-senses tell me she kept on saying no because she didn't want to do it, so they kept on jacking up the offer.
Good call...

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 7, 2011, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
Her frame of reference isn't going to get more normal as time goes on. If anything it would get worse.
Ya, right. Now, she's so messed up that she's signing book deals and figuring out how best to invest her newly found millions.
     
freudling  (op)
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Jun 7, 2011, 02:25 PM
 
Sorry, but this is all bullshit. There're billions of people starving that need help, now. People who are skin and bones, watched their mothers shrivel and die of AIDS. Get raped in front of them. Get beaten.

And are they screaming "where's my millions?"

It's the principle and precedent. America is just so ass backwards in this regard. It's simply not fair this kind of compensation. And who flipped the bill for this?

Bottom line: there're a lot of people in need, she's not the only one.

So many people go through hardships. This compensation is disgusting and her seeking a book deal is even more disturbing.
     
subego
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Jun 7, 2011, 02:29 PM
 
Why is it her fault she gets what the market will bear?

You have a point, but your aim is 180 degrees off.
     
Uncle Skeleton
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Jun 7, 2011, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Ya, right. Now, she's so messed up that she's signing book deals and figuring out how best to invest her newly found millions.
You're projecting. Nothing indicates these were her idea.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Jun 7, 2011, 02:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Sorry, but this is all bullshit. There're billions of people starving that need help, now. People who are skin and bones, watched their mothers shrivel and die of AIDS. Get raped in front of them. Get beaten.

And are they screaming "where's my millions?"

It's the principle and precedent. America is just so ass backwards in this regard. It's simply not fair this kind of compensation. And who flipped the bill for this?

Bottom line: there're a lot of people in need, she's not the only one.

So many people go through hardships. This compensation is disgusting and her seeking a book deal is even more disturbing.
I'm trying to figure out what exactly you're against here. So I'll dig a little:

Do you feel that companies should be prohibited from offering money to any individual to tell their life story? Or should they be regulated so that they must offer money to all people with a similar life story? Or should they be regulated so that companies can only offer a certain amount of money for the life story? Or should they be banned from offering money for the life stories of people who've had shitty lives, and only allowed to offer money for the life stories of successful/rich people like Michael Jordan or Oprah or Bono?

In a shocking turn of events...I'm picking up some cognitive dissonance from a freudling post.

With bated breath, I await further explanation of your logical reasoning.

Greg
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freudling  (op)
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Jun 7, 2011, 11:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by ShortcutToMoncton View Post
I'm trying to figure out what exactly you're against here. So I'll dig a little:

Do you feel that companies should be prohibited from offering money to any individual to tell their life story? Or should they be regulated so that they must offer money to all people with a similar life story? Or should they be regulated so that companies can only offer a certain amount of money for the life story? Or should they be banned from offering money for the life stories of people who've had shitty lives, and only allowed to offer money for the life stories of successful/rich people like Michael Jordan or Oprah or Bono?

In a shocking turn of events...I'm picking up some cognitive dissonance from a freudling post.

With bated breath, I await further explanation of your logical reasoning.

Greg
Here you go focusing on one aspect of this. She is being compensated millions of dollars, and who pays for it? Even from a developed world, I know people who have had hardships. Drug problems, physical and emotional abuse, coupled with medical conditions like MS in people's twenties.

Where are the millions for them? It's the principle and the precedent that I have a problem with. Add a book deal in and it looks even more stinky.

The compensation is absurdly high, but that's America. That's my point.
     
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Jun 8, 2011, 12:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Where are the millions for them?
You're the one that sounds greedy
     
screener
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Jun 8, 2011, 05:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
You're the one that sounds greedy
There is something seriously abnormal with his thinking.
Because he thinks he'd behave differently, which is questionable, that others should be the same.
Typical can't walk in another's shoes mentality because they can't imagine anyone being, thinking, acting, differently than they do.

And what the hell does the rest of his diatribe have to do with this.
Completely nuts.
     
screener
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Jun 8, 2011, 05:01 AM
 
Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton View Post
You're the one that sounds greedy
C'mon, tell us what you really think.
It'll only be a semi permanent ban.
Sometimes, like now, it's worth it.
     
andi*pandi
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Jun 8, 2011, 07:43 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
She is being compensated millions of dollars, and who pays for it?
The compensation is absurdly high, but that's America. That's my point.
If you don't like it, may I suggest you not buy her book. The publishing industry is not a government organization wasting tax dollars, nor is it taking food from starving orphans.

How else can she suppport her family? What real job can she hold until she gets formal education? She never finished elementary school.

To start, the rapist is father to her children and owes child support. His land should be sold and profits given to her.

I really don't see why you're being so hateful. Yes, there are other atrocities in the world. Does that mean no one should be able to survive theirs if everyone can't? Might as well throw in the towel then.
     
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Jun 8, 2011, 10:45 AM
 
Guys, the $20 mil came from the police department not the book deal, but it wasn't to compensate her for her suffering, it was to punish the police department for incompetence (details unknown).
     
subego
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Jun 8, 2011, 05:02 PM
 
It wasn't for both?
     
 
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