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So, any concerns left wingers?
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Chongo
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Feb 21, 2017, 12:31 PM
 
If the reports out there are correct, unlike W, WJC, and JHWB, Obama will be spending his post presidency actively obstructing President Trump via his group "Organizing for Action" (OFA). Do have any concern about the example this will set for future post presidencies?


from fake news "The Young Conservatives" and the NY Post.

I'd just post the twitter linked video, but have been unable to locate it elsewhere.
Days After Obama's "Shadow Government" Is Outed, an Even More Disturbing Discovery Comes to Light...

Obama-linked activists have a ‘training manual’ for protesting Trump | New York Post
( Last edited by Chongo; Feb 21, 2017 at 02:04 PM. )
     
subego
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Feb 21, 2017, 02:03 PM
 
It's in poor taste.
     
BadKosh
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Feb 21, 2017, 02:27 PM
 
Illustrates some immaturity.
     
BlueSky
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Feb 21, 2017, 02:36 PM
 
No concerns at all.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 21, 2017, 02:44 PM
 
An unprecedented presidency begets a unprecedented post presidency. I haven't caught all terrible things Ibama has done in the past month, but I thought he was pretty respectful post election.

A rationalization, but considering he was/is more popular than Trump, I'm not exactly loosing sleep over it. If Trumps approval improves I'll start to see a conflict of interest .
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 21, 2017, 06:35 PM
 
In yet another parallel, Tony Blair recently crawled out of the woodwork to make a speech encouraging people to rise up against Brexit and stop it from happening. It would have been much better received from pretty much anyone else, his credibility is still in absolute tatters, but everything he said was on the nose.

Democracy needs opposition. There seems to be precious little of it where it really counts at the moment in the US and the UK as Trump and May continue to steamroller their charges in terrible directions.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 21, 2017, 07:21 PM
 
*sigh* Are the Left so stupid that they don't realize that they're opening yet another Pandora's box? I'm bookmarking this for when the Dems are (someday) back in power and Repubs do the same to them, only with more effective results (leading to screaming and crying foul). The ends don't justify the means, does someone need to tattoo that on their foreheads? FFS.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 21, 2017, 07:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Democracy needs opposition.
Unless your party is running the country, amirite?
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Waragainstsleep
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Feb 21, 2017, 11:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Unless your party is running the country, amirite?
That might be the case in American politics simply because one party is basically good and the other is basically bad. Relatively speaking at least. This means when the good party is in power, the opposition are opposed to them doing good things, so yes that would be bad.

Over here however, things are much more mixed up. Our lefties are too far left on many issues and completely inept at many others. Are righties aren't as bad as yours (at least until recently) but at least they try to balance the nations books instead of wanting to ditch our nuclear deterrent or simply believing that money grows on trees when people really need it.
So here, we need opposition whoever is in charge. One side stops the other from selling the entire country to themselves and their school chums and when roles are reversed, the profiteers stop the lefties from trading the education sector for magic beans or giving everyone with a limp their own castle.
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Chongo  (op)
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Feb 21, 2017, 11:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*sigh* Are the Left so stupid that they don't realize that they're opening yet another Pandora's box? I'm bookmarking this for when the Dems are (someday) back in power and Repubs do the same to them, only with more effective results (leading to screaming and crying foul). The ends don't justify the means, does someone need to tattoo that on their foreheads? FFS.
The ends do justify the means to an Alinsky-ite organizer.

Reid opened the first Box with the "nuclear option."
I've seen interviews with W where he refused to publicly criticize Obama.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 22, 2017, 12:14 AM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
That might be the case in American politics simply because one party is basically good and the other is basically bad.
I didn't read the rest of your ignorant prattle.
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Waragainstsleep
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Feb 22, 2017, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I didn't read the rest of your ignorant prattle.
We wouldn't want you to strain yourself. Actually you'd probably agree with some of it.
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Waragainstsleep
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Feb 22, 2017, 11:44 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
*sigh* Are the Left so stupid that they don't realize that they're opening yet another Pandora's box? I'm bookmarking this for when the Dems are (someday) back in power and Repubs do the same to them, only with more effective results (leading to screaming and crying foul). The ends don't justify the means, does someone need to tattoo that on their foreheads? FFS.
Just to clarify, the Pandora's Box in question this time is protesting and complaining about the government?

Well, aren't you the walking contradiction?
So we must all be tolerant of people preaching racism, homophobia, xenophobia, misogyny, misandry, and any other kinds of fear or hate I'm leaving out otherwise we're intolerant of the intolerant which is worse than being just intolerant, but protesting the government is an outrageous sin? This is preposterous even for you. Protest is the most fundamental exercise of free speech there is and its nearly always against the government. Trying to shut it down is a prominent feature of fascism.
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BadKosh
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Feb 22, 2017, 12:57 PM
 
Pretty much all protests are ignored by those in DC.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 22, 2017, 01:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Pretty much all protests are ignored by those in DC.
That's likely true, but I think the demonstration is still important to the concept of democracy.
     
Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 22, 2017, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Actually you'd probably agree with some of it.
Not in the slightest.
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Cap'n Tightpants
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Feb 22, 2017, 04:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
Just to clarify, the Pandora's Box in question this time is protesting and complaining about the government?
Are you pretending to be this dense? No, it's about obstructionism, when a former pres decides to openly work against the sitting president. Even Bush, for all his faults, didn't try to upstage and work against Obama's incoming policies, no matter how much he disagreed with them. Yet again the Left is setting dangerous precedent that will come back to bite them in the ass, yet they're too ignorant and self-righteous to see it. Overreach with EOs, the nuclear option, and now executive obstruction, all so they can have a momentary advantage, then they end up taking it full-on in the ass down the road when the tables are turned, creating a much bigger mess than before. Get your heads out of your asses, in this arena the ends never justify the means.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
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but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
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Feb 22, 2017, 09:25 PM
 
I used to play a board game where it was basically a demolition derby, but with everybody strapping .50 cals to the front of their car.

Or rocket launchers.

Or both.

Cars could also mount "dropped hazards", which were just what you'd expect. Oil slicks, giant caltrops, land mines, and thevlike.

In the "racing" variants of the game, dropped hazards were banned.

Why were oil slicks banned in a world were machine guns are not only acceptable but encouraged?

Because in a race, those dropped hazards stay on the track, and on a racetrack, what goes around comes around. It's just as likely to kill yourself as it is your opponent. The concept is the same in politics, and is a cardinal rule. Seek procedural advantage and it will be turned against you.

Even murderous psychopaths with machine guns realize this.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 22, 2017, 09:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
Are you pretending to be this dense? No, it's about obstructionism, when a former pres decides to openly work against the sitting president. Even Bush, for all his faults, didn't try to upstage and work against Obama's incoming policies, no matter how much he disagreed with them. Yet again the Left is setting dangerous precedent that will come back to bite them in the ass, yet they're too ignorant and self-righteous to see it. Overreach with EOs, the nuclear option, and now executive obstruction, all so they can have a momentary advantage, then they end up taking it full-on in the ass down the road when the tables are turned, creating a much bigger mess than before. Get your heads out of your asses, in this arena the ends never justify the means.

Uh huh, and Obama has done what exactly to obstruct Trump thus far? Because I keep hearing we should worry about what people do more than what they say they're going to do and somehow I suspect that Obama's Anti-Trump training camps are the product of Alex Jones Badkosh's fevered imagination and nothing more.
If you mean its obstructionism thats going to come around, well then Obama committing it would be it coming around after all the obstruction he faced while in office. A government majority not only refusing to do their own jobs but actively stopping the rest of the government doing theirs. Now thats a precedent worth complaining about voting a party into power for. Well done America.

This repetitive "ends doesn't justify the means" ranting is just more tiresome partisan garbage. If its as cyclical as you claim, how can it possibly be the fault of one side or the other? All these Pandora's boxes were dug up and handed to Obama by Bush or thrown at him by his opposition. Bush got some of his from Clinton before him. Etc etc. Politics is full of bells than cannot be unrung.

The only shred of credibility to your utterly one-sided nonsense, is the self-fulfilling prophecy where Americans only ever blame the left for things they do wrong and the right gets a free pass. I guess if you held them to account for everything you wouldn't actually have any time to live your lives.
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subego
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:13 PM
 
I don't understand what's contentious about the claim.

If Obama takes shots, then future presidents will follow the example.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I don't understand what's contentious about the claim.

If Obama takes shots, then future presidents will follow the example.
If thats all the claim is, what exactly is the problem? The right is making out like its the end of the world.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I used to play a board game where it was basically a demolition derby, but with everybody strapping .50 cals to the front of their car.

Or rocket launchers.

Or both.

Cars could also mount "dropped hazards", which were just what you'd expect. Oil slicks, giant caltrops, land mines, and thevlike.

In the "racing" variants of the game, dropped hazards were banned.

Why were oil slicks banned in a world were machine guns are not only acceptable but encouraged?

Because in a race, those dropped hazards stay on the track, and on a racetrack, what goes around comes around. It's just as likely to kill yourself as it is your opponent. The concept is the same in politics, and is a cardinal rule. Seek procedural advantage and it will be turned against you.

Even murderous psychopaths with machine guns realize this.
Dark Future?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:23 PM
 
Car Wars.
     
subego
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Feb 22, 2017, 10:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
If thats all the claim is, what exactly is the problem? The right is making out like its the end of the world.
I imagine they don't like being the target, but I'd worry more if I was a Democrat.

If bashing the next president becomes a thing, Republicans will end up better at it.
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 23, 2017, 02:03 AM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I imagine they don't like being the target, but I'd worry more if I was a Democrat.

If bashing the next president becomes a thing, Republicans will end up better at it.
It's a fair point, but part of me thinks, if the bar is "will republicans be better at it?" then you've reduced the democrats to doing nothing, like, ever.
     
subego
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Feb 23, 2017, 02:09 AM
 
And therein lies the problem.
     
Doc HM
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Feb 23, 2017, 04:53 AM
 
It seems a strange idea that someone who was the main political figure for a country for up to the last eight years is expected to suddenly stop being political? Has this always been the case or is it just recent tradition becoming entrenched? I understand the tradition of signing over your business interests is actually only recent as well.

Over here we are well used to former Prime Ministers sticking their oar in. Ted Heath wouldn't stop and Thatcher was the same, however it does seem to be fading here as the lure of all the corporate payback and thank you money on the lecture circuit grows. Thank god Tony Blair lost all interest in UK politics once he left office and set off to become World King. Sadly he's back now that that dream has failed to explain why we should stay in Europe.

I can't see a problem either way with Obama weighing in?
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The Final Dakar
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Feb 23, 2017, 10:42 AM
 
The point is to give the new guy breathing room to set his agenda without making his life more difficult than it needs to be.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 11:37 AM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
It seems a strange idea that someone who was the main political figure for a country for up to the last eight years is expected to suddenly stop being political? Has this always been the case or is it just recent tradition becoming entrenched? I understand the tradition of signing over your business interests is actually only recent as well.
People will reference W leaving Obama alone once Obama entered office. They may forget that W's approval rating was garbage by the end of his second term (35%) and the republican party basically hid Bush during McCain's campaign. It wouldn't have made sense for him to start a public movement because the public hated him.

It'd odd how certain many Republicans are that the Obama Foundation will be focused only on obstruction of Trump. I'm actually surprised that no news source has added that the Foundation will also focus on "taking away our guns," because that was an effective scare tactic that Republicans believed for the last 10 years.
     
Chongo  (op)
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Feb 23, 2017, 12:00 PM
 
It's not the "Obama Foundation," it's "Organizing for Action" that Obama will be running from his walled compound in DC..
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 23, 2017, 12:18 PM
 
Wait, Obama doesn't run OFA
     
Laminar
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Feb 23, 2017, 12:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
It's not the "Obama Foundation," it's "Organizing for Action" that Obama will be running from his walled compound in DC..
Source?
     
Waragainstsleep
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Feb 23, 2017, 12:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Final Dakar View Post
The point is to give the new guy breathing room to set his agenda without making his life more difficult than it needs to be.
He has carte blanche to do whatever he wants virtually unopposed. Only the courts have been willing to keep him in check so far. His life need to be made more difficult. I[m sure Obama would rather GTFO and go play golf but would be happy just sitting on your hands watching an orange tyrant wreck everything you did the last 8 years?
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The Final Dakar
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Feb 23, 2017, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
He has carte blanche to do whatever he wants virtually unopposed. Only the courts have been willing to keep him in check so far. His life need to be made more difficult. I[m sure Obama would rather GTFO and go play golf but would be happy just sitting on your hands watching an orange tyrant wreck everything you did the last 8 years?
Could you say the same for Obama in 08?
     
subego
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Feb 23, 2017, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
It seems a strange idea that someone who was the main political figure for a country for up to the last eight years is expected to suddenly stop being political? Has this always been the case or is it just recent tradition becoming entrenched? I understand the tradition of signing over your business interests is actually only recent as well.

Over here we are well used to former Prime Ministers sticking their oar in. Ted Heath wouldn't stop and Thatcher was the same, however it does seem to be fading here as the lure of all the corporate payback and thank you money on the lecture circuit grows. Thank god Tony Blair lost all interest in UK politics once he left office and set off to become World King. Sadly he's back now that that dream has failed to explain why we should stay in Europe.

I can't see a problem either way with Obama weighing in?
Aren't PMs usually still in parliament after they step down?
     
Doc HM
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Feb 23, 2017, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Aren't PMs usually still in parliament after they step down?
Usually they stay for a while. Ted Heath stayed for years and moaned and moaned and moaned. God he hated Thatcher. Thatcher wouldn't shut up either, which made John Majors life difficult. TB got the hell out as quickly as he could in order to pick up his corporate pay cheque, most stick around for a while. Cameron bailed quickly as well.

It's generally thought that the quieter the better so as not to undermine the next PM, but, crucially, only as long as its a PM from your own party. Ripping into PMs from the opposition is standard.

Is there anything to stop an ex president say standing for a senate post or as a governor again?
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subego
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Feb 23, 2017, 02:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Doc HM View Post
Usually they stay for a while. Ted Heath stayed for years and moaned and moaned and moaned. God he hated Thatcher. Thatcher wouldn't shut up either, which made John Majors life difficult. TB got the hell out as quickly as he could in order to pick up his corporate pay cheque, most stick around for a while. Cameron bailed quickly as well.

It's generally thought that the quieter the better so as not to undermine the next PM, but, crucially, only as long as its a PM from your own party. Ripping into PMs from the opposition is standard.

Is there anything to stop an ex president say standing for a senate post or as a governor again?
Nothing legal... but being an ex-president is a really ****ing sweet deal. There is absolutely no reason for them to want to.

In terms of commentary, I don't honestly know from whence the tradition came, but I'd wager term limits were the public saying "when you're done, you're done".
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 02:57 PM
 
We're term limits a public call or more a politicians concern?
     
subego
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Feb 23, 2017, 03:12 PM
 
I'm going on the assumption constitutional amendments don't get passed without a serious public call being involved.

I should probably look into why it was passed. Didn't people like having FDR forever?
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 23, 2017, 03:35 PM
 
The wiki didn't tell me much but it was supported by the guy FDR beat for his fourth term and approved by a republican congress. I can't rule out sour grapes
     
subego
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Feb 23, 2017, 03:37 PM
 
Congress is the easy part of passing an amendment.

Ratification is the Sisyphean task. All it takes to kill it is one state being obstinate.
     
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Feb 23, 2017, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Source?
bottom of the page is the link to OFA
https://barackobama.com/about/
Obama-Aligned Organizing for Action Relaunches for Trump Era - NBC News

his role is unclear?
     
Laminar
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Feb 23, 2017, 05:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Still waiting for sources on these claims:

Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Obama will be running
from his walled compound in DC..
     
The Final Dakar
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Feb 27, 2017, 10:53 AM
 
W getting in on the act
     
subego
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Feb 27, 2017, 11:28 AM
 
Bush needs to start using the twitters himself.
     
Chongo  (op)
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Feb 27, 2017, 11:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Still waiting for sources on these claims:
OK, not a "walled compound," but a rental home with a new ten foot high security wall.
President Obama Builds a Wall for Rental House | TMZ.com
Obama House -- Under Construction | Photo 13 | TMZ.com

Do you actually believe OFA will not be getting marching orders from Obama? OFA has transformed into a "Proctect my Legacy" group for Obamacare.
     
Laminar
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Feb 27, 2017, 12:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Do you actually believe OFA will not be getting marching orders from Obama? OFA has transformed into a "Proctect my Legacy" group for Obamacare.
It doesn't matter what I believe, what I believe is driven by my own biases and what I want to be true, so I ignore what I want to believe. I have to look at the evidence and until there is any, I'd be a fool to make claims in either direction.
     
   
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