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Steve stepping down? (Page 2)
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Person Man
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Jan 15, 2009, 02:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Driving personalities tend not to play well with other driving personalities.
Yes, that's what got Jobs thrown out in the first place. A power struggle developed between him (then chairman of the Board) and Sculley (then CEO).

Given the degree of credit that goes to Steve Jobs for returning Apple to success and keeping it there and the cult status he's generated which suggests that every design is his, I'd say that shared holders have every right to be completely informed about his ability to perform.
Yes. About his ability to perform. NOT ABOUT HIS HEALTH, UNLESS IT AFFECTS HIS ABILITY TO PERFORM. These are two separate issues. Up until now, though he was in poor health, it apparently did not affect his ability to perform. He was able to do what he needed to do to carry out his duties as CEO. (Think of it this way... you have the flu. You feel like crap, but you get up and go to work anyway).

The minute it becomes apparent that he can't do his job because of his health, then he has to report it, and that's what he did.

And don't tell me that "the potential to interfere must be fully disclosed." No. It's whether it is CURRENTLY affecting his ability or not.
     
Andrew Stephens
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Jan 15, 2009, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by sdilley14 View Post
I'm just curious, how big of a role do you think Steve really plays at Apple.
Steve is the one that obsesses about every single little detail from the welds on the pcb to the fonts in the user manual.

Steve is the one that when his chief designer says they need to invent a whole new production process just to make things slightly stiffer, makes it happen

Steve is the one that doesn't have to answer to anyone else in the company. If he decrees that henceforth all Macs will be constructed entirely from cheese and sold only to people called Kevin, the board agrees.

Steve is the one who can reject every single focus group finding, every time. In fact he's the one who can forbid focus groups entirely.

Steve is the one who can bin a whole product line weeks before launch if he decides to, or tell all the engineers to go back and start again.

Steve can do this time and time again.

I simply can't see anyone else in the company matching this. Whoever takes over will be beholden to the board. Eventually compromises WILL creep in, budgets will be squeezed.

Apple with Steve Jobs at the helm is a unique manufacturer of products that change peoples lives. Without him they are basically Sony.
     
Person Man
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Jan 15, 2009, 03:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Apple with Steve Jobs at the helm is a unique manufacturer of products that change peoples lives. Without him they are basically Sony.
And who's to say that the people Jobs has lined up to take over from him won't do many of those things after he's gone?

How do we know that his successor won't be the same (or similar)? Do you think Jobs will let anyone else do exactly what he does while he still runs the company? No, because he's not really giving them the chance to.

I don't want someone exactly like Jobs after he leaves Apple. But you can be sure Jobs will put into place someone who will run the company competently. Apple does not equal Jobs and Jobs does not equal Apple.

Time will tell.
     
starman  (op)
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Jan 15, 2009, 03:19 PM
 
The problem with any successor is that they're unproven. Steve isn't. It's that simple.

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Jan 15, 2009, 03:21 PM
 
Nice. AAPL is now back over $83.

It was down below $79 in pre-market training IIRC.

Now when it is going back to $115!?!?
     
Person Man
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Jan 15, 2009, 03:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
The problem with any successor is that they're unproven. Steve isn't. It's that simple.
Steve was unproven when he came back, too. All people really knew was that he was thrown out once... he could have been thrown out again. That didn't happen this time, but it could have.

The problem I have is that people seem unwilling to let anyone else prove themselves. We shouldn't let fear of the unknown prevent us from giving someone else a chance.
     
Person Man
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Jan 15, 2009, 04:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
The problem with any successor is that they're unproven. Steve isn't. It's that simple.
Here is an article about Apple COO, Tim Cook, who is filling in for Jobs while he's recovering. Seems reassuring to me.
     
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Jan 15, 2009, 04:33 PM
 
Plus the head designer, Jonathan Ive, has been there since '92 (though obviously he wasn't always the head).

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Person Man
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Jan 15, 2009, 04:37 PM
 
...
     
freudling
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Jan 15, 2009, 04:54 PM
 
I think all of us believe, at some level, that Apple will not be the same - ever - without Steve. No question there. Does that mean Apple will cease to be attractive to us? No. I loved Apple in the 90s, despite what others might say, and Jobs was not really around then.

From the first PowerBook 100s, to AutoCAD and OS 7.6, to the MacColorClassic, to the Newton (which I still use today). There was a lot of innovation with Apple without Steve, and that will not stop. But certainly without Steve, the "uber" innovation, that drive for simple, beautiful user interfaces and products will take a hit. I have hopes that a Steveless Apple will bring new and wonderful things, but I know that it will never be the same.
     
Andrew Stephens
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Jan 15, 2009, 04:54 PM
 
Perfection is in Jobs's genetic make up. He IS Apple and he is inside every product they make. No matter how good a CEO Tim Cook makes, at some point the accounts department is going to lean on him to cut costs, the share holders will try to force him into markets they think exist, the production people will nibble at him with reasons why things can't be done "exactly" that way. He himself will compromise ever so slightly here and there in order to swing board decisions.

None of these things happen at Apple under Jobs, because he quite simply isn't built that way. The short fact is that Jobs is unique, Jobs is Apple and Apple is unique.

Ten years from now Apple may still be a successful company but it won't be this Apple.
     
Jawbone54
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Jan 15, 2009, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Plus the head designer, Jonathan Ive, has been there since '92 (though obviously he wasn't always the head).
For a few years now, I've thought that the future of the company rests with Ive.

IMHO, he would be a great keynote presenter at future Apple events (definitely better than Phil, who usually comes off a bit nervous). And let's be honest: he could display a much better physical presence for the company...

     
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Jan 15, 2009, 05:37 PM
 
Interesting story about Tim Cook from the article linked to above:

"This is really bad," Cook told the group. "Someone should be in China driving this." Thirty minutes into that meeting Cook looked at Sabih Khan, a key operations executive, and abruptly asked, without a trace of emotion, "Why are you still here?"

Khan, who remains one of Cook's top lieutenants to this day, immediately stood up, drove to San Francisco International Airport, and, without a change of clothes, booked a flight to China with no return date, according to people familiar with the episode. The story is vintage Cook: demanding and unemotional.
Demanding, unemotional, and apparently kinda unreasonable: going to China requires a visa, which requires filling out a form to be submitted at the Chinese consulate along with your passport and a fee and takes a couple days even if you pay extra to rush it...
     
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Jan 15, 2009, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Demanding, unemotional, and apparently kinda unreasonable: going to China requires a visa, which requires filling out a form to be submitted at the Chinese consulate along with your passport and a fee and takes a couple days even if you pay extra to rush it...
It sounds like we have a winner! Tim Cook, it is.
     
Cold Warrior
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Jan 15, 2009, 05:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by nonhuman View Post
Interesting story about Tim Cook from the article linked to above:



Demanding, unemotional, and apparently kinda unreasonable: going to China requires a visa, which requires filling out a form to be submitted at the Chinese consulate along with your passport and a fee and takes a couple days even if you pay extra to rush it...
If he was already involved in their Asian or Chinese operations, then he could have already had a multi-entry or long-term Chinese visa.
     
nonhuman
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Jan 15, 2009, 05:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
If he was already involved in their Asian or Chinese operations, then he could have already had a multi-entry or long-term Chinese visa.
Ah, good point. Hadn't thought of that!
     
Salty
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Jan 15, 2009, 06:01 PM
 
Ive is cute... I think even if he wasn't named as CEO him and Scott Forestall might end up doing a LOT of the presenting. I could see the guy from the iMovie dev team showing off a lot of software though since he did a great job. Apple really does need to keep someone with good stage presence showing off their products. For however great a CEO he is, Jobs is an awesome sales man!

In other news I doubt Apple will change too much over time even without Jobs, my guess is they'll simply end up having a bit of product bloat trying to fit more markets that Jobs has previously said no to. For example if not for Jobs there would be an Apple Netbook out by now.
     
Person Man
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Jan 15, 2009, 06:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
None of these things happen at Apple under Jobs, because he quite simply isn't built that way. The short fact is that Jobs is unique, Jobs is Apple and Apple is unique.
Do you know, for a fact, that none of these things happen under Jobs? No.

Nobody really knows, other than Jobs and the executive team of Apple themselves.

Not all change is for the worse. I hope that Apple without Jobs is even better than Apple with Jobs.

But don't just blindly assume that without Jobs Apple is teh d00med.
     
Hawkeye_a
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Jan 15, 2009, 07:15 PM
 
Jobs has an iconic status, and while he was the CEO(Executive Officer, in charge of making decisions), most of the "work" operations, logistics, design, engineering, etc, was handled by the current team of executives.

Jobs' biggest role at Apple was, imo pr... he is sorta like the 'image' of the company. What it came down to, imo was the million dollar presentation. That's what's going to be missing if he leaves.

I'm certain the current team is very capable in their current roles, and one of them might even be the next CEO, but it is my opinion that none of them can give a presentation like Jobs. I really doubt anyone can match him ESPECIALLY in this industry.

If Disney is the house that Mickey built, and Nintendo is the house that Mario built, Apple is the house that Jobs built. Trying to replace any of those icons from those companies would be pretty difficult.

I think in 2009 Apple should focus on formulating a strategy for it's business(without Jobs at the helm). As far as products, in 2009 Apple should only release incremental upgrades to all lines (no point adding extra risk and uncertainty to the equation).

Just my opinion.
     
goMac
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Jan 15, 2009, 07:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Steve is the one that obsesses about every single little detail from the welds on the pcb to the fonts in the user manual.
Steve's obsessions with logic boards has led to many notable product failures in Apple's history. Many logic boards have had cooling problems, the Apple 3 was a failure simply because of Steve's insistence that the machine should have no fans. This can go very badly.

They have Ive to handle manuals (not to mention a bunch of manual writers).

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Steve is the one that when his chief designer says they need to invent a whole new production process just to make things slightly stiffer, makes it happen
Ive has a lot to do with that too.

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Steve is the one that doesn't have to answer to anyone else in the company. If he decrees that henceforth all Macs will be constructed entirely from cheese and sold only to people called Kevin, the board agrees.
This isn't necessarily a good thing. Steve has done a lot of dumb things, and he's axed a lot of good things.

I know one organization that is threatening not to buy a single new Macbook until Firewire comes back, and they buy a lot of Macbooks (multi-million dollars worth). Someone should have thought of these things before they cut the Firewire port off the Macbooks because they ruined the hipness of the machine.

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Steve is the one who can reject every single focus group finding, every time. In fact he's the one who can forbid focus groups entirely.
Again, not always a good thing. He likes to think he knows what the customer wants. When he is wrong, he is very wrong.

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Steve is the one who can bin a whole product line weeks before launch if he decides to, or tell all the engineers to go back and start again.

Steve can do this time and time again.
He's certainly not the only one in the industry that can do this. Look at Rubenstien, he went from Apple to Palm and did this.

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
I simply can't see anyone else in the company matching this. Whoever takes over will be beholden to the board. Eventually compromises WILL creep in, budgets will be squeezed.
And this is a good thing. Apple needs to grow up. They need to start getting serious about Enterprise and stop wasting their time. They need to start building a cheaper midtower. Steve got kicked out of Apple in the 80's because he ignored things like color screens, hard disks, and expansion. Apple would be nowhere today without those things. I think Steve has learned a lot, but he's certainly not perfect.

Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Apple with Steve Jobs at the helm is a unique manufacturer of products that change peoples lives. Without him they are basically Sony.
Funny, Steve has said he already sees Apple as Sony.
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Jan 15, 2009, 07:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey View Post
Plus the head designer, Jonathan Ive, has been there since '92 (though obviously he wasn't always the head).
He's an amazing industrial designer and a really talented guy.
So, the Apple stock price is about 83 atm, I think Apple will do OK while Steve is away. Lot's of very talented and motivated people work at Apple.
     
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Jan 15, 2009, 08:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Steve is the one that obsesses about every single little detail from the welds on the pcb to the fonts in the user manual.

Steve is the one that when his chief designer says they need to invent a whole new production process just to make things slightly stiffer, makes it happen

Steve is the one that doesn't have to answer to anyone else in the company. If he decrees that henceforth all Macs will be constructed entirely from cheese and sold only to people called Kevin, the board agrees.

Steve is the one who can reject every single focus group finding, every time. In fact he's the one who can forbid focus groups entirely.

Steve is the one who can bin a whole product line weeks before launch if he decides to, or tell all the engineers to go back and start again.
Heck, Steve Jobs even picks the music to go in their ads!

Now that just made me respect him that much more.

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G4XJ
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Jan 15, 2009, 08:23 PM
 
Can they get the mid tower and netbook I want to buy designed and to market during his absence?
     
ironknee
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Jan 15, 2009, 11:32 PM
 
sending positive vibes to steve.

     
nonhuman
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Jan 16, 2009, 10:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a View Post
If Disney is the house that Mickey built, and Nintendo is the house that Mario built, Apple is the house that Jobs built.
I'm pretty sure that Disney is that house that insane and unfair manipulation of copyright law built...
     
DeeKat
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Jan 16, 2009, 11:28 AM
 
I found a pessemistic article.

http://www.applegameshop.com/2009/01...-part-two.html

I dont know if applegamesshop as any credibility but if it does, it doesn't sound good. If indeed Steve comes back to say farewell in june this is very very sad.

I wish him the best recovery.
     
Laminar
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Jan 16, 2009, 11:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by DeeKat View Post
I found a pessemistic article.

http://www.applegameshop.com/2009/01...-part-two.html

I dont know if applegamesshop as any credibility but if it does, it doesn't sound good. If indeed Steve comes back to say farewell in june this is very very sad.

I wish him the best recovery.
Are you sure it isn't a hoax?

We have incredible products coming out, obviously the latest installment of OS X, Leopard Snow. 2 great new iPhones for this summer, brand new displays and the new line up of a Pro line desktop machines. As a tease, I can tell you right now that our next screens for laptops and cinema displays will have the same touch technology as we have in the iPhone (actually it's a whole new series of patents). We cannot wait to have those roll-out very very soon.
(emphasis mine)

This sounds entirely untrue.
     
Laminar
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Jan 16, 2009, 11:50 AM
 
Also, Part 1 of the "interview" claims quad-core processors for the iPhone. Fake.
     
Salty
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Jan 16, 2009, 11:59 AM
 
What... you mean I won't be able to transcode HD video on my new iPhone? When will Apple start listening to what consumers really want!?
     
Doofy
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Jan 16, 2009, 12:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andrew Stephens View Post
Steve is the one that obsesses about every single little detail from the welds on the pcb to the fonts in the user manual.

Steve is the one that when his chief designer says they need to invent a whole new production process just to make things slightly stiffer, makes it happen

Steve is the one that doesn't have to answer to anyone else in the company. If he decrees that henceforth all Macs will be constructed entirely from cheese and sold only to people called Kevin, the board agrees.

Steve is the one who can reject every single focus group finding, every time. In fact he's the one who can forbid focus groups entirely.

Steve is the one who can bin a whole product line weeks before launch if he decides to, or tell all the engineers to go back and start again.

Steve can do this time and time again.
So what you're basically saying is that Steve is the bloke responsible for discontinuing products that I still want to buy. And for the depressing, bland directory icons in Leopard. And for making us all buy the new OS just because we want to upgrade our graphics cards. And for not allowing us to have Mac Pros in black. And for removing "previously included" features (see iMovie) from apps.
Been inclined to wander... off the beaten track.
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Jan 16, 2009, 12:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
Also, Part 1 of the "interview" claims quad-core processors for the iPhone. Fake.
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/40899/135/

Here's the press release from the company announcing the new processor:
http://www.imgtec.com/News/Release/index.asp?NewsID=428

Also, Apple recently invested $5 mil, giving them a 3.6% share in the company:
http://venturebeat.com/2008/12/18/ap...-technologies/

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Laminar
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Jan 16, 2009, 12:17 PM
 
I'm still sticking by my "fake" call. It's just too poorly written.
     
DeeKat
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Jan 16, 2009, 01:58 PM
 
I guest your right Laminar, I tend to give the benifice of the doubt maybe to easily. What amaze me is why someone would write an hoax like that? to drive traffik to their site? To just get attention? If that's the case, Applegameshop are a bunch of losers. I still think i might be true, but the odds are against me!
     
Salty
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Jan 16, 2009, 02:01 PM
 
Go figure... gamers being immature... who'd have thunk...
     
Laminar
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Jan 16, 2009, 02:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by DeeKat View Post
I guest your right Laminar, I tend to give the benifice of the doubt maybe to easily. What amaze me is why someone would write an hoax like that? to drive traffik to their site? To just get attention? If that's the case, Applegameshop are a bunch of losers. I still think i might be true, but the odds are against me!
     
jokell82
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Jan 16, 2009, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Laminar View Post
I'm still sticking by my "fake" call. It's just too poorly written.
I agree with you there. It reads like a 12-year-old tried to make up an interview.

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
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Jan 16, 2009, 03:51 PM
 
At the rate this drama develops I expect him to be dead by Valentines Day.
     
freudling
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Jan 16, 2009, 07:35 PM
 
In an attempt to get this thread back on track... will Steve be back anytime soon? June even? Who knows. Feels weird though, without Steve.

As much as he annoys me, he attracts me. I just wish he would stop being so socially inept and arrogant and just be transparent about his health... is that so hard? He has to realize that he is in the public eye, and he chose the path he took. If he does not like publicity, he should move to an island and be a Monk. His recent comment to Bloomberg about wanting to be left alone, and saying "why is this important" shows just how narrow a view he has on himself and on life.

So many of us are hanging in the wind on this: it's the biggest news to hit Apple since he was fired in 85 and then rehired in 1997. If he really cared, he would share more with everyone, he would see that all of the attention, etc., is because people care and are worried both about Apple and about him. All he sees it as, I think, is some sort of game.

Come on Steve, stop being a child and man up to reality. If you're really very sick just own up to it and come clean. To me, it is the best thing he could do. All the phone calls and cat and mouse would subside, and by making his medical problems public, maybe some smart people out there would contribute to curing him of whatever he has.

And as much as people criticize that Bloomberg article about the Doctor saying it could be cancer again, it is so far the only clean, tenable explanation for what is happening to him, because Apple surely is not giving us anything but smoke and clouds to go off of. So if you are sick of the rumors, blame Apple and Steve for leading us down a wild path of false statements. The common bug thing from last summer was laughable then, now this is getting just plain ridiculous.
     
Laminar
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Jan 16, 2009, 11:09 PM
 
It's not just his ego at stake, but the value of an entire company. He's not being selfish about his own feelings when deciding how much to share, and I doubt the entire decision is up to only him.
     
freudling
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Jan 17, 2009, 01:04 AM
 
Laminar:

No sure I agree: Steve has always been selfish about everything, all the time. He also does whatever he wants.

As for Apple's statements in the summer about a common bug, they flat out lied. Steve had been losing massive amounts of weight at least 8 months prior to that WWDC, and his weight has steadily declined since his surgery in 2004. It just accelerated rapidly over the past 1.5 years.
     
goMac
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Jan 17, 2009, 04:23 AM
 
That AppleGameShop interview is fake, fake, fake.
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Jan 17, 2009, 11:29 AM
 
I don't think anyone in here believes that Apple is going to fall if Jobs steps down permanently. But, don't be surprised if shareholders are jittery until the new leadership proves itself. From their perspective, there is no evidence that Apple can continue to succeed without Jobs.

Investors are not the faithful.
     
freudling
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Jan 17, 2009, 05:05 PM
 
What does Apple need with investors when they have billions of cash in the bank?
     
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Jan 17, 2009, 05:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
What does Apple need with investors when they have billions of cash in the bank?
Investors, as in "shareholders"
     
freudling
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Jan 18, 2009, 08:00 PM
 
Shareholders, that's better®.
     
goMac
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Jan 18, 2009, 11:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
What does Apple need with investors when they have billions of cash in the bank?
Because they're held legally liable to the shareholders.

Here's a little fact:
Apple is legally entitled, as a public company, to make money for it's shareholders. If the shareholders feel that the company has done something to damage profits, they may hold Apple legally accountable.

That's why it's important. If it's decided that Steve's medical condition could damage profits, than Apple may have a legal case on their hands.

Apple as a company probably doesn't care too much about it's stock value. Steve himself is paid in stock, but I can't think of a reason why the company itself would care, when as you've pointed out, they're mostly a cash based operation.
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freudling
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Jan 19, 2009, 12:40 AM
 
I was just being a nerd... sort of pointing out that investors does not necessarily imply shareholders, but could be construed as venture capitalists, Banks, etc.

Moving along...
     
 
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