[nemanirc]

I have a 22 month old daughter and am wondering when to get her her own Mac to use. Right now, my wife and I have our own desktops and laptops for our multiple businesses, and have created an account for our daughter on each. However, we would rather she not (1) sit in our office and play and (2) carry around and drop a laptop). We were going to get her an eMac at some point, but did not know if 22 months was too young.

She does not do much on the computer yet, but we did not know if that was because there was not one easily available to her (at her height without mommy and daddy telling her to stay out of everything else in the office). Basic question: at what age do kids show enough interest in/use of computers to make getting one of their own worthwhile?

[mitchell_pgh]

I think it's important to teach your daughter (OK, I'm an armchair father for a moment... and apologize in advance) that a computer isn't a Nintendo/Sony PS/Xbox.

I would start her off around 3 years old if she is interested...

Typing skills (or more to the point proper typing skills) are essential...

Also, don't let her/him become too reliant on the mouse...

My 2�

[Scifience]

22 months...that makes her almost 2.

There are a few educational games aimed at preschoolers, so she might be able to get some enjoyment out of those.

I agree with your choice of an eMac, LCDs and babies (or idiotic parents in my case) who poke at the screen just don't mix.

[juanvaldes]

I'd hold off a bit longer.

Got a friend who has a 2yo and that child does not use the computer yet. But the 5 & 6yo's do. Kids games and such. So there my two cents and observation.

[Lerkfish]

My son was using the computer (with my supervision) at age 3. at age 4, i had to buy him his own so I could get some work done. he's 5 now and can kick my butt at Halo.

[I Me Mine]

Originally posted by nemanirc:
Basic question: at what age do kids show enough interest in/use of computers to make getting one of their own worthwhile?

Judging by Spymac I'd say 5 years old.

[xi_hyperon]

My daughter started showing interest at 3. Now she's 4 and loves to play children's games on my older laptop. I bought her a travel mouse from logitech (I think) which fits her hand just right.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by Scifience:
22 months...that makes her almost 2.

There are a few educational games aimed at preschoolers, so she might be able to get some enjoyment out of those.

I agree with your choice of an eMac, LCDs and babies (or idiotic parents in my case) who poke at the screen just don't mix.

eMacs have crts

[andi*pandi]

deathman, that's the point, an iMac would be a bad idea for a toddler.

My son (almost 2) loves to sit at our computers and wave a mouse around. We do not let him do this on his own, I fear for my mouse.

Someday soon I will get off my duff and set up our old-skool iMac for him to play edutainment with.

At this age all they are good at is pounding the keyboard and waving the mouse around. Maybe opening up Appleworks/Paint is all they need.

[Timo]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
My son was using the computer (with my supervision) at age 3. at age 4, i had to buy him his own so I could get some work done. he's 5 now and can kick my butt at Halo.

[cjrivera]

Some of the games are for 2-3 year olds just require you to bang on the keys or click the mouse to achieve goals. My son was using these type games when he was about 18-20 months old. He wasn't learning anything, just getting used to the keyboard/mouse. If you do this, just get an old mac that doesn't matter how much drool/spitup gets on it, since many of these baby games don't require a lot of processor, most are OS 9, and only use 256 colors on the monitor. (I had an old Performa that worked just fine)

[Scifience]

Originally posted by d4nth3m4n:
eMacs have crts

I do believe that was the point I was making.

[d4nth3m4n]

Originally posted by Scifience:
I do believe that was the point I was making.

yeah, i dont read. my fault

[Mac Write]

Call for Help did a segment awhile ago on this

All kid games only require a mouse. Setup the computer to only have a mouse with no keyboard. Setup simple finder with big icons and the games they play. You could also setup URL links to kids sites like pbskids etc. They don't need a keyboard so don't even have one connected.

[Millennium]

I'd wait until she's 3, personally. She may well develop the skills to use the computer before then -if so, then so much the better- but I wouldn't say she's ready for her own machine until at least then.

Make absolutely sure she knows the basics of taking care of a machine (hardware-wise, e.g. spilling juice on the keyboard = BAD) before getting her one, though.

[The Placid Casual]

Well, from *waaaayyy* left field...

This thread has answered a lot of questions for me, albeit indirectly. Thank you all.

In January I got engaged. I'm not young, but somewhat idealistic, but I now know that my life has to take a new direction tomorrow.

I have known my fiance for ages (8 years), but only got it together about 7 months ago.

In that time my Dad died and she was there for me totally. I was convinced she was the 'one'. I had no doubts, and we have lived together for 5 months, and been really happy. I really do love her.

Now the twist.

She hinted at it previously, but was not definitive, but tonight she told me that she never wants kids. *Ever*, and will never ever change her mind.

I am gutted.

I can see no future for the relationship as I have always really wanted kids, in fact, I can think of nothing better to make life complete. There is no question of me not having kids.

Reading this thread has brought it home to me how natural it is to want a family, and not exceptional, and that I can't fool myself over this issue.

I'm broken hearted but clear headed.

I have a tough day ahead tomorrow... looks like I'm moving.

Peace,

Marc

*normal forum service can now be resumed*

[boardsurfer]

I started my kids at 5 and 4. They got set up on my old crt iMac. They totally love CroMag Rally, Bugdom and the like. The younger recently pushed the keyboard off the desk and ripped the usb plug all to hell. :shrug: I'll let him sweat it out a while longer before I get him another. I like when they play the educational titles.

Funny thing: I have taken them to the Apple store on several occassions - they think its like Disneyland. All the cool games and the little round things you sit on in the kids section. I was so proud when the older came home from his first day of kindergarten and I asked him how his day was, he said "there's two iMacs in the class!" heh.

(praises one button mouse!)

[mdc]

my there is an 11 year gap between me and my sister. she did not start as early as two years old, but a little older. she would watch my use my computer and eventually we put a old computer in her room and she learnt her way around it, and played lots of edutainment games on it.
i think that if at 22 months, you don't feel that your daughter is quite up to it, then give it a year or so and i am sure she will be ready for something like an emac.

on a side note. due to the fact that my sister is in south africa and macs are not all that big down there, she learnt her way around windows. i showed her my ibook last year and in a few minutes she knew her way around it. o.O {kids these days)

The Placid Casual:
the episode of friends comes to mind, where pheobe broke up with her boyfriend (paul?) because he said he never wants to get married. if memory severs me correctly, they ended up back together and got engaged.

what i am _trying_ to say is this. do you think that there is any chance that your fiance would ever change her mind? you mentions that you are not young. if you were i would have said something like "change her mind, after time". i don't know, i think it is a pretty big decision to break it all off. i completely understand your side of it. kids are going to be a huge part of my life, and i do not think i could be with someone that *knew* they were not going to have a child.

i hope you work out your problem.
mike

[daimoni]

.

[Amorya]

I definitely think kids should be introduced to computers early - I could program in BASIC by age 6 and was writing simple games. But I don't think a child should have his/her own computer until at least secondary school age. I reckon 13's about the right age to get them their own machine - at that time they've learned most lessons about online safety (hopefully), and can be given privacy and trust a bit more.

I don't think primary school aged kids really mind sharing a computer - I know I didn't. It's the start of adolescence when privacy really starts becoming important.

My advice is get a computer that your daughter can use, but don't call it 'hers'. Just set it up in a neutral place (like the lounge or kitchen), and let her learn to use it with supervision.

Amorya

[talisker]

Just a thought, but why is it automatic that kids have to have their own computers at home? They'll be exposed to them from a very early stage at school, at a time when they're still very adept at picking up new ideas, which I imagine will equip them well enough for the future. Obviously every parent likes the best for their kids, but in practical terms will they really lose out by not having used a computer for a year or two before beginning school, or more particularly, not having used their own computer rather than their parents' one?

What concerns me about giving kids computers is that it promotes the idea that a computer is an utterly essential piece of equipment for the home, that everyone must have, which I don't think is true, especially as most people can get computer and internet access elsewhere pretty easily. The fact is that for most people a computer is a very expensive piece of equipment. To get kids used to owning one from childhood is a shame I think, because it'll add a whole stack of financial pressure when they're fending for themselves a few years later.

[cjrivera]

Originally posted by talisker:
Just a thought, but why is it automatic that kids have to have their own computers at home? They'll be exposed to them from a very early stage at school, at a time when they're still very adept at picking up new ideas, which I imagine will equip them well enough for the future. Obviously every parent likes the best for their kids, but in practical terms will they really lose out by not having used a computer for a year or two before beginning school, or more particularly, not having used their own computer rather than their parents' one?

What concerns me about giving kids computers is that it promotes the idea that a computer is an utterly essential piece of equipment for the home, that everyone must have, which I don't think is true, especially as most people can get computer and internet access elsewhere pretty easily. The fact is that for most people a computer is a very expensive piece of equipment. To get kids used to owning one from childhood is a shame I think, because it'll add a whole stack of financial pressure when they're fending for themselves a few years later.

I agree that computers should not be viewed as a "must have" tool for learning at such an early age. Books/paper/crayons/toys/etc. should be much higher on the list of essentials for a toddler/child. But a computer (if available) can be an additional tool to expand a child's mind and instill a sense of exploration, especially if you can team up non-computer lessons with the things they just played on the computer. And, like many have already said, in no way should computers be used in place of good parenting or teaching by parents.

Old and used computers can be found cheap, and since children's software is usually not very processor intensive, older computers (Macs or Wintel) will usually handle most of the programs for education. You can also teach them about taking care of posessions, and if they spill something or break something on an old machine, it's not hat big of a deal.

Given the option of having them watch some inane show like Teletubbies vs. use some of the toddler/children's educational programs, I'll take the latter.

[Scifience]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Make absolutely sure she knows the basics of taking care of a machine (hardware-wise, e.g. spilling juice on the keyboard = BAD) before getting her one, though.

That is what plastic keyboard covers are for.

[dlefebvre]

You could buy her a dual 2Ghz G5. I can keep it for her untill she's ready...

[Lerkfish]

Originally posted by cjrivera:
I agree that computers should not be viewed as a "must have" tool for learning at such an early age. Books/paper/crayons/toys/etc. should be much higher on the list of essentials for a toddler/child. But a computer (if available) can be an additional tool to expand a child's mind and instill a sense of exploration, especially if you can team up non-computer lessons with the things they just played on the computer. And, like many have already said, in no way should computers be used in place of good parenting or teaching by parents.

Old and used computers can be found cheap, and since children's software is usually not very processor intensive, older computers (Macs or Wintel) will usually handle most of the programs for education. You can also teach them about taking care of posessions, and if they spill something or break something on an old machine, it's not hat big of a deal.

Given the option of having them watch some inane show like Teletubbies vs. use some of the toddler/children's educational programs, I'll take the latter.

I understand your concern, but on the other hand, as an example, my son wanted to know about cobra snakes, so we went online together, went to national geographic and some other sources and found out about cobra snakes, and then went to mongeese and their adversarial relationship, from there he wanted to hear what a hyena REALLY sounded like so we found an mp3 and played it, from there we downloaded a bunch of different animal sounds....and this was in one afternoon. So I go to pick him up at daycare and he's telling another kid "No, the mongoose is the natural enemy of the king cobra snake because he's fast and develops an immunity to the venom". He's five, and he's using words like "immunity" and understanding what it means.
I think like all tools, the computer, if used correctly, can be useful. Its like they used to do with Highlights magazine when I was a kid (before computers)....they made fun games for kids that also taught them something. The "fun" part attracted them, and the learning part came along for the ride.

[talisker]

Originally posted by Lerkfish:
I understand your concern, but on the other hand, as an example, my son wanted to know about cobra snakes, so we went online together, went to national geographic and some other sources and found out about cobra snakes, and then went to mongeese and their adversarial relationship, from there he wanted to hear what a hyena REALLY sounded like so we found an mp3 and played it, from there we downloaded a bunch of different animal sounds....and this was in one afternoon. So I go to pick him up at daycare and he's telling another kid "No, the mongoose is the natural enemy of the king cobra snake because he's fast and develops an immunity to the venom". He's five, and he's using words like "immunity" and understanding what it means.
I think like all tools, the computer, if used correctly, can be useful. Its like they used to do with Highlights magazine when I was a kid (before computers)....they made fun games for kids that also taught them something. The "fun" part attracted them, and the learning part came along for the ride.

Oh absolutely computers are great for that kind of thing, my concern was more around whether kids really should be given their very own computer (especially a brand new mac!)

[Link]

Originally posted by talisker:
Oh absolutely computers are great for that kind of thing, my concern was more around whether kids really should be given their very own computer (especially a brand new mac!)

Why not? it's a great tool when used well, and especially a good mac

I'm sure my kids will be having computers along for the ride..as long as you don't give them the computer as a 'babysitter' it's great.

[goMac]

Buy the kid a Dual G5. It'll be great for compiling code super fast, and can play Halo smooth as butter.

Oh... wait.. thats what I want..

[starman]

My daughter just turned 6. She loves to 'draw' using Photoshop, but that's it - her interest in computers dies right there. She has no interest in email, typing, or anything else. She reads the best in her class and can spell on her own. She doesn't need a computer. If she does, there's a Mac, a PC, and a PC laptop she can use. It's just as well I think; I'd rather see her interact with real people than be glued to a CRT.

Mike

[ism]

My little girl is just about to turn three, there's no way she's having her OWN mac, that's what multi-user operating systems are for. If I can't afford a new mac, she's certainly not having one!

She is getting Winnie the Pooh, A story with a tail and Reader Rabbit's Sparkle Star Nursery (how cool does that sound?) to play though.

[cjrivera]

Originally posted by ism:
My little girl is just about to turn three, there's no way she's having her OWN mac, that's what multi-user operating systems are for. If I can't afford a new mac, she's certainly not having one!

She is getting Winnie the Pooh, A story with a tail and Reader Rabbit's Sparkle Star Nursery (how cool does that sound?) to play though.

Reader Rabbit titles usually put the Disney stuff to shame. The Fischer-Price titles (Little People series) are great for the 2-3 year old range, and again are much better than most of the Disney titles. (IMO)

YMMV.

[nonhuman]

My dad put me on his 128k Mac right when he first got it. I was 15 months old at the time. Now I'm about to graduate college with a bachelor's in Computer Science. While I definitely think that I probably would have ended up a big fan of computers had I not been using them for my entire life, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't be nearly as competent with them if it hadn't been for my dad teaching me to use MacPaint way back when.

My parents got me my first computer of my own (a IIgs) when I was 5. As a result, by the time I had to write reports and stuff for school I was already able to touch type and could hand in my assignments word processed (yeah, dot-matrix!). Having access to a computer during my more formative years gave me, I think, a much better understanding of computers and the way they "think" than most people my age have. Being able to experiment with all the different functions and even hack around at it with ResEdit (later than the IIgs, obviously...) taught me a lot of useful skills that I'm applying now.

[ism]

Originally posted by cjrivera:
The Fischer-Price titles (Little People series) are great for the 2-3 year old range, and again are much better than most of the Disney titles. (IMO)

Cheers for the advice, I'll keep a look out for them

[Big Mac]

On a peripheral subject, I'm wondering whether companies have begun providing OS X compatible educational and entertainment titles for the young. It seems to me that the amount of educational software has shrunk considerably, and from what I've seen companies have been slow to develop for OS X. When I was last at an Apple Store (which was awhile ago, granted), all the eMacs in the kids section were running OS 9. Are things improving in this regard?

[gadster]

Kids aged below about 7 (depending on the kid) have enough on their hands just learning social skills. Computers can be learned later, easily. It's easy to forget that social interaction is learned, it's not necessarily innate.