[osxisfun]

"All" companies are not at the unique juncture of tech, hardware, software, loyal fan base, up against the world's largest monopoly, that apple is.


Once again, the reasons i stated previously are MUCH more plausible then the incesant "steve's ego / why don't they "just" pre-annouce" responses.Which was the whole point of my original post.

[eddiecatflap]

..THREE GIGAHERTZ HERE WE COME..

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by eddiecatflap:
..THREE GIGAHERTZ HERE WE COME..

Vapour, all vapour.

And, going by Steve's previous announcements, the machines will still be vapour until 2 months after the release due to shipping or production 'issues'!

All this speculation drives me nuts, and has done for years. Most worryingly, it is getting worse.

A road map won't kill Apple.

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
A road map won't kill Apple.

ROAD MAPS ARE FOR PUSSIES!

[Zoom]

AppleInsider has some updated rumors on the next PM revision. It basically says that according to its sources, the video cards aren't causing the delays. It also says that a fresh batch of the current G5's just shipped to retailers, which I suppose would mean that updated PM's won't be out anytime too soon.

[Eug Wanker]

According to AnandTech, the new Radeon X800 Pro (R420) will debut on April 26th, and the Radeon X800 XT will come at the end of May. R423 (with PCI Express) won't be released until June.

nVidia will launch the GeForce 6800 (NV40) on April 13th, with retail availability also April 26th.

[Evan_11]

So why would a graphics hard hold up an update?

You guys are funny.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
So why would a graphics hard hold up an update?

You guys are funny.

Steve sometimes like to release the Power Macs with the l8test and gr8test GPUs, for obvious PR reasons.

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Steve sometimes like to release the Power Macs with the l8test and gr8test GPUs...

Release machines maybe, but judging from recent performances, you have a 50/50 on the machines getting shipped before the GPU's are outdated...

[The Placid Casual]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
So why would a graphics hard hold up an update?

You guys are funny.

Um, obvious.

Apple rely on a 3rd party, ATI or Nvidia to give them enough cards for their product production line, much like they rely on Moto and IBM to give them enough chips.

If there is a lack of cards, or a delay in the supply or fabrication of the cards by said 3rd parties, it is obvious there will be a delay in fabrication of the whole machine.

Also, I'm glad we amuse you.

[Leonard]

Nah, I don't see the graphics card holding up the next config of G5s. Apple already has Radeon 9800 Pros and 9600s, he could simply release the G5s with one of those. Heck, he could ship the low-end and mid-end with these and delay the shipping of the high-end as usual. Besides, I don't see Apple offering a Radeon X800 as standard on any of the configs. BTO sure, but not standard.

[Eug Wanker]

This sounds about right.

[jcadam]

Originally posted by The Placid Casual:
Um, obvious.

Apple rely on a 3rd party, ATI or Nvidia to give them enough cards for their product production line, much like they rely on Moto and IBM to give them enough chips.

If there is a lack of cards, or a delay in the supply or fabrication of the cards by said 3rd parties, it is obvious there will be a delay in fabrication of the whole machine.

Also, I'm glad we amuse you.

Of course, if these new G5's were updated with a PCIe slot replacing the AGP Pro slot, and ATI suddenly had trouble getting its new PCIe cards to Apple in quantity, THAT could cause a big problem. Not like there are any other PCIe cards apple could substitute.

[Leonard]

Hahahaha... good one Eug!

[Evan_11]

You guys seem to forget that Apple just recently in the past month or so ironed out many of the bugs with the G5 and Panther. To say the release was trouble free would be lying. I'd rather have slightly outdated technology that works rather than be the guinea pig riding out the latest greatest. There are many professional businesses still relying on G4's and OS 9 to get work done. I just spoke with a gentleman who does graphic design for Boeing. They just recently switched over to the G5/Panther platform. So far he has said it's been nothing but headaches; lack of drivers, various work flow hitches and such.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Evan_11:
You guys seem to forget that Apple just recently in the past month or so ironed out many of the bugs with the G5 and Panther. To say the release was trouble free would be lying. I'd rather have slightly outdated technology that works rather than be the guinea pig riding out the latest greatest. There are many professional businesses still relying on G4's and OS 9 to get work done. I just spoke with a gentleman who does graphic design for Boeing. They just recently switched over to the G5/Panther platform. So far he has said it's been nothing but headaches; lack of drivers, various work flow hitches and such.

Of course, that doesn't mean the G5 is necessarily to blame per se (even though it could be).

Driver issues? That would suggest improperly tested drivers, esp. on the G5 platform or recent iterations of OS X. Work flow hitches? Like what? Did they even test it before they converted?

If your time and buck require absolute perfect functionality, then you do complete testing first before doing any significant migration. Now, issues can still crop up, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of their problems were related to incomplete testing on the platforms and OSes to be used.

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Roadmaps are not promises. Roadmaps are rough guides, and rough guides are much more useful than no information at all.

I agree with you.

Roadmaps are simply guides or predictions based rough estimates.

But they at least give the consumer and B2B market an idea of where you are going and when.

So where is the IBM (G5) and Apple (PowerMac) roadmaps?

[Switched2Mac]

Speed Bumped Only PowerMacs?!

Power Mac G5 Revision

Anonymous sources have confirmed portions of a recent report on pending updates to Apple's Power Mac G5 product line. According to information which is believed to be very accurate, Q77 is indeed a name used externally to referred to speed bumped Power Mac G5 units. Sources also confirmed that the absence of faster models is a direct result of an unanticipated setback. "Something has gone terribly wrong," one source said, who noted that prototypes of the revised Power Macs first shipped to select partners prior to the start of the year, but would not comment further.

"...speed bumped Power Mac G5 units."

Not 3.0 gHz.

[Leonard]

Switched2Mac, that's not the sad part of that rumor, the sad part is the "Sources also confirmed that the absence of faster models is a direct result of an unanticipated setback. "Something has gone terribly wrong," one source said," . This is not good news if true.

[jcadam]

Originally posted by Leonard:
Switched2Mac, that's not the sad part of that rumor, the sad part is the "Sources also confirmed that the absence of faster models is a direct result of an unanticipated setback. "Something has gone terribly wrong," one source said," . This is not good news if true.

uanticipated setback? Terribly wrong?
Who wants to speculate:

1) IBM is having trouble getting good yields on its new 90nm process?

2) The 970FX introduced some strange incompatibilities with the current powermac motherboard, requiring some unanticipated re-engineering?

3) The new motherboards utilize PCI-Express, and the first round of PCIe cards from ATI were horribly delayed. This one ain't likely. I doubt we'll see PCIe until the NEXT update (Q4 2004/Q1 2005).

4) Entire Apple Hardware Design team becomes ill with Ebola.

Well, that's all I can think of.

[Switched2Mac]

More bad news today...

AppleInsider.com -> Apple's Jeff Hansen, Senior Director of Channel Sales and Distribution

AppleInsider:
During a Web Cast to Apple Specialists today, the company's Senior Director of Channel Sales and Distribution, Jeff Hansen, confirmed that the dual 2.0 GHz X Serves have begun shipping to Virginia Tech to fulfill orders for the university's super computer. AppleInsider also received independent confirmation that select dual Xserve G5 orders had begun shipping out of the company's Sacramento plant, earlier this morning.

I thought they began shipping these on March 23rd, per the Apple press release:

Apple Begins Shipping Xserver G5's

AppleInsider:
In addition to updating resellers on the status of Xserve G5 shipments, Hansen reportedly provided hints that the company would be 'refreshing' many of its professional products during its World Wide Developers conference, set to take place in San Francisco during the final week of June.

refreshing? at WWDC? I doubt he would have specifically used the word refreshing if they were going to release the 3.0 gHz G5's at WWDC. Apple is just starting to prep everyone for the minor speedbumps now.

I was really hoping that I was wrong about my predictions.

AppleInsider:
Hansen's comments to specialists corroborates previously unpublished information received by AppleInsider over the past several weeks. According to a number of diverse sources, Apple revised its deployment schedule for new Power Mac G5 and associated professional hardware products when implementation issues with new 90-nanometer PowerPC G5 daughter cards hampered plans to update the products by mid-March.

Now we know what the problem is!!!!

AppleInsider:
On a related note, sources close to Apple's retail store operations claim that over the past week the stores have received a 'large' re-stock of all current Power Mac G5 and iMac G4 configurations. Prior to the start of Apple's 3rd fiscal quarter, many Apple-owned retail stores were flirting with dangerously low inventory of the desktops.

And now Apple has made another production run of the same old PowerMacs to keep the channel aloft.

Similar Discussions

If Apple would drop the prices significantly on the existing models, it would sustain sales until the minor speedbumps at WWDC. Heck, I might even purchase one now. But not at these prices.

[Switched2Mac]

Apple admits there are problems:

- Power Mac volumes for the quarter were lower than expected at 174,000 units. Apple reduced its total channel inventory by 10%, and Power Macs accounted for the largest component of the reduction. Apple still believes it will attain sales ranging beyond 200,000 Power Macs during some quarters, while other quarters may see slightly lower figures depending on seasonality and product life cycle.

- Apple confirmed that it was not happy with 90-nanometer processor shipments from IBM, but claimed that IBM is working as "very hard" to deliver enough chips to meet demand. Apple sites chip shortages as the sole factor in the recent Xserve G5 delays.

- Apple would not comment on whether certain product schedules had slipped.

Read the highlights of the rest of the Conference Call here.

Other than the bad news about IBM/PowerMacs/G5s, the rest was great news! Making good money and solid margins.

A financially strong Apple is good for all of us. That means they can invest more in R&D, quality assurance, etc.

Interesting about the iBook G4 sales though. I never would have thought they would be that impressive. It is an excellent value for $999 too.

[lenox]

Did you guys notice the speed-bumped eMacs on Apple's site? Turns out my 8x superdrive prediction was only partially true. Apple's shipping it, but only in the eMacs right now! Kinda strange...but those machines are a pretty good value!

[kristofor]

I'm just curious why everyone is so sad/upset that 3Ghz looks unlikely. Expected speed bumps from 2.0 Ghz range from 2.4 to 2.6 Ghz. We're talking about a 400 to 600 Mhz jump per processor, in effect making the speed bump 800 Mhz to 1.2 Ghz.

I think on the Intel sides of things they upgrade in much smaller increments. New chip gets anounced and it's a 3.2 Ghz instead of 3.0 Ghz. Granted, they update more often, but even then I doubt they come close to the speedbump/upgrade that everyone wants.

If Apple releases 3.0 Ghz on some random unannounced Tuesday (or WWDC at the latest) where do they go from there? We'd be talking about a completely new chip that would have to come out (AFAIK) to upgrade the speeds from there. And what would the speed bump need to be then? If everyone expected the same kind of jump then we'd be looking at 3 Ghz going to 4.5 Ghz, dual4.5 Ghz. A 9 Ghz total machine. Don't get me wrong, I'd love for this to be this case, and I expect it will be, but it's not going to happen for a few years.

Get me a revision 2 Powermac out that fixes the minor issues associated with the new case design and architecture. I already beta tested a Tibook in 2000, much to my dismay in some cases. I want a solid update that works and isn't going to have a ton of issues.

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by lenox:
Did you guys notice the speed-bumped eMacs on Apple's site? Turns out my 8x superdrive prediction was only partially true. Apple's shipping it, but only in the eMacs right now! Kinda strange...but those machines are a pretty good value!

Great prediction on your part too!

When I switched, the eMac was my first Mac. Nice computer.

If they are shipping them in eMacs, I would think that we would see them in the minor speedbump PowerMacs coming up at WWDC.

IBM still cannot get the new 970FX to run reliably at 2.0 gHz now, according to many rumor websites and IBM's press release.

And my wait continues.....

[Switched2Mac]

G5 Blog of Interest

PowerMacMan should really check this blog out. Very informative and indicative of the the feelings of many Mac users.


I have already predicted that he will eat those words! He said that at WWDC 2003. WWDC 2004 is fast approaching.

72 days left until WWDC 2004

( x 72)

I may just knuckle under and buy a PowerBook this coming week, if they update the line.

Looks more and more like my wait for the Dual 3.0 G5 will take us into next year (that was my second prediction).

[Luca Rescigno]

( x 72)

I think you've got at least that many crying smilies in the posts you've already done. You're taking this WAY too seriously. Apple will update when they update, and not a day sooner. One more day passing without an update does not mean that they are less likely to deliver a certain speed by a certain date - it means that they didn't decide to release an update that day. That's all.

Now, you would have a point if nothing happens at WWDC. But if the PowerMacs aren't updated, say, three days before WWDC, does that make them "less and less likely" to hit the 3 GHz mark?

[Switched2Mac]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
I think you've got at least that many crying smilies in the posts you've already done. You're taking this WAY too seriously. Apple will update when they update, and not a day sooner. One more day passing without an update does not mean that they are less likely to deliver a certain speed by a certain date - it means that they didn't decide to release an update that day. That's all.

Now, you would have a point if nothing happens at WWDC. But if the PowerMacs aren't updated, say, three days before WWDC, does that make them "less and less likely" to hit the 3 GHz mark?

Perhaps.

I am actually considering a new PowerBook instead. I am being absolutely serious when I say that the 3.0 gHz G5's will not be out until at least New Year 2005. So a nice new PowerBook will tide me over until then.

Considering they are using the new 970FX chips, and all the other problems, I would consider them Rev A. all over again. So the PowerBook would last me another year easily until WWDC 2005.

But I was hoping to avoid buying another G4 based Mac.

[Switched2Mac]

Hmmm.

Did I not predict this back in March?

Apple Admits Won't Meet 3.0 gHz by Summer!

InfoWorld Article

While we are still 2 weeks out from the WWDC, you won't be able to buy any new PowerMacs between now and then. Ship dates are in August. And we all know those dates will begin to slip as they draw near. My prediction clearly stated that you wouldn't be able to walk into an Apple Store and buy any new PowerMacs before WWDC.

I bought a Rev C. 12" Powerbook 2 months ago to tide me over until next year when the Dual 3.0 gHz PowerMacs hit the market.

So all those Mac gurus, with years of Mac ownership, who supposedly knew far more about Apple product cycles than me, all turned out to be .... WRONG.

[Lateralus]

[Switched2Mac]

heh, heh.

Excellent reply! I loved it!

Oh, well. Dual 3.0 gHz around Xmas would be a nice Xmas present for anyone.

But it brings up some issues worthy of discussion.

OK, so the IBM G5 process is having problems. That's obvious now.

But based on Apple's public statements, it appears that the speed issue won't be resolved for quite some time either. I find that more troubling.

Apple left Motorola for IBM for similar reasons (not being able to increase the speeds of the CPU's fast enough for the marketplace).

Perhaps the problem is neither company, but the chip design itself.

I can definitely see Apple secretly working on porting OSX to Intel. Especially the Centrino family for new Powerbooks. Apple would no doubt make it such that the Intel chips would only work on Apple motherboard (somehow) so that you could not simply run OSX on your garden-variety Intel clone system. Controlling the hardware that the Apple OS runs on has a lot to do with the OS not crashing.

If they are having these problems now in the PowerMac systems, where cooling options are nearly unlimited due to the size of the case, you can imagine the problems in a 12" PowerBook!!!! I do not see a G5 Powerbook for the next 2 years. Does anyone think that there will really be a G5 PowerBook before there is a G5 iMac?

I plan to make another bold (and accurate) prediction in the PowerBook forum sometime this week.

I would like to know what the exact problem is with the G5 right now. It appears to be the heat issues. But with the new liquid cooling, that should take care of all but the most nuclear heat issues.

What are your thoughts?

[ReggieX]

My thoughts?

Originally posted by Switched2Mac:
I can definitely see Apple secretly working on porting OSX to Intel.

That subject has been debated to death for years. Don't bring it up ever again

Also, why are you so obsessed with a dual 3.0?

[Switched2Mac]

Not obsessed.

After all, its just a processor speed, nothing more.

But it represents failed promises from Apple. Apple is not the first, nor the last, computer manufacturer to break a promise though.

I just got tired of the "Rah-Rah" Cheerleader folks blindly accepting Apple's every utterance as if it came from God.

As a "Switcher", I come to the Mac Camp minus the blinders. I want, no .... I DEMAND that Apple lose the arrogance and start listening to the users and the corporate customers. I want 20% consumer marketshare by 2010!!!!

I want so many people using Apple and OSX by 2020 that it is no longer "Think Different", its more like "Conform, Think Like The Rest of Us".

If IBM is going to flounder just like Motorola did (in regards to cpu speed and update frequency), then it is seriously time to find another CPU (i.e. Intel or even AMD)

Running OSX on Intel does NOT mean that I want everyone running OSX on Intel clones. No. Apple can make the motherboard unique and OSX would only run on that combination, thereby preventing the cloners from running OSX. That topic has been talked into the ground, but that is not what I am suggesting.

And remember, Apple only introduced 1 new PowerMac this last week. The other 2 are retreads. And the new Dual 2.5 is only announced with a ship date of August 2004 (well past the WWDC). And that ship date will slide as they always do. And it is a Rev A. model 90mm die G5. Meaning there will be the expected problems with Rev A's.

But if you are happy with the new models, then that is all that really matters.

[Switched2Mac]

But........

The new PowerMac (singular) has been announced already. Why do that 2 weeks before WWDC and then having nothing new hardware-wise to announce?

You know that Steve Jobs is not going to take the stage and re-announce a new PowerMac and 2 retreads. And he will certainly have to address his promise, its an ego thing.

So the question then becomes ..... what is he going to announce?

I am sure it will be something good. It always is, right? But what? The new airport express has already been announced too. Why do these only weeks before WWDC leaving nothing left to "wow" the crowd with?

Unless he has something big up his sleeves that he is holding back on. An Apple PDA, or a G5 1.6 gHz iMac, or a 4G iPod with video or new LCD monitors?

Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Switched2Mac]

Hmm.

Maybe Apple is going to announce the new ......

iWife

Coming on the heels of the Stepford Wives movie just recently released!

iWife would be the hardware add-on to the iLife Digital Hub.

[Lateralus]

This thread is getting weird...

And now that the new Power Macs have been announced, there is no reason for this thread to continue.