Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Dark Helmet · Nov 23, 2006, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Not for those of us who have work or school on Monday. Sunday at 8:00 would be one thing, but Sunday at 10:00 is simply too late.

Well that's a shame but most people aren't home watching TV friday and saturday night.

At any rate what is with this "End of line" bit suddenly? I know they said it in the original series and in the Pilot for no reason.

Also why is D'Anna suddenly having visions of the baby cradle in the hall that was once Baltars projection? Do you think having sex they end up sharing thoughts and memories?

Millennium · Nov 23, 2006, 02:08 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well that's a shame but most people aren't home watching TV friday and saturday night.

True, but most people aren't watching TV that late on Sunday night either.

At any rate what is with this "End of line" bit suddenly? I know they said it in the original series and in the Pilot for no reason.

Aside from the Tron reference, it seems to have something to do with the Cylon concept of death. Some have theorized that whenever the Hybrid says it, it means that a Cylon has either died or downloaded nearby.

Peter · Nov 23, 2006, 06:50 AM

I've only recently bought the mini series + season 1 + season 2. FInally watched them all now -- and wow.
This is an awesome tv show!
Hope Series 3.0 is released on dvd asap.

Dark Helmet · Nov 23, 2006, 12:47 PM

Do you think the Cylons are interested in finding God himself? Seems they have a new interest in death and what is in-between death and resurrection.

Dale Sorel · Nov 23, 2006, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Do you think the Cylons are interested in finding God himself?

No, I think they're just looking for the podcast for Hero

Dark Helmet · Nov 23, 2006, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

No, I think they're just looking for the podcast for Hero

If that is sarcasm I haven't even listened to it yet. Only on episode 6.

MRTrauffer · Nov 24, 2006, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

If that is sarcasm I haven't even listened to it yet. Only on episode 6.

No sarcasm there. The Hero podcast is still MIA. They say technical difficulties, but I think Hero opened a bigger can of worms that they probably anticipated.

Eug · Nov 24, 2006, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

True, but most people aren't watching TV that late on Sunday night either.

I do.

I wonder when they'll show it in Canada though. Will it stay on Saturdays?

Originally Posted by MRTrauffer

No sarcasm there. The Hero podcast is still MIA. They say technical difficulties, but I think Hero opened a bigger can of worms that they probably anticipated.

David Eick wrote that episode, so maybe Moore didn't think he should do the podcast for it.

P.S. I really, really hated that episode.

Oversoul · Nov 24, 2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I'm glad. Friday/sat is a terrible night. Sunday is prime time baby!

Agreed. The 10pm slot might be more suited for BSG's mature content anyway. And isn't it widely agreed that Friday night is the death slot for TV series? (See Enterprise.)

Dark Helmet · Nov 24, 2006, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Oversoul

Agreed. The 10pm slot might be more suited for BSG's mature content anyway. And isn't it widely agreed that Friday night is the death slot for TV series? (See Enterprise.)

Difference was Enterprise sucked before it went t Fridays and if anyone is home on fridays it is Star Trek fans.

Sunday night is the one night I actually always sit down and watch TV from 8 - 11ish. Now I got even better reason to.

ghporter · Nov 24, 2006, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Difference was Enterprise sucked before it went t Fridays and if anyone is home on fridays it is Star Trek fans.

Sunday night is the one night I actually always sit down and watch TV from 8 - 11ish. Now I got even better reason to.

Actually, being moved to Friday evening killed TWO Star Trek series; the original series in '68-69 and Enterprise. With the exception of that last fart of an episode, the fourth season of Enterprise was really pretty good (the two-part episode with Peter Weller was really, REALLY good in my opinion). But with the idiots running the franchise, and Paramount forgetting the history of what happened to Star Trek the last time it got moved to Friday, there was no saving it.

Now today, just a short time later, things could be different. With enough Tivo and other DVR users out there, being on Friday evening might not be bad for a series.

Dark Helmet · Nov 24, 2006, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Actually, being moved to Friday evening killed TWO Star Trek series; the original series in '68-69 and Enterprise. With the exception of that last fart of an episode, the fourth season of Enterprise was really pretty good (the two-part episode with Peter Weller was really, REALLY good in my opinion). But with the idiots running the franchise, and Paramount forgetting the history of what happened to Star Trek the last time it got moved to Friday, there was no saving it.

Now today, just a short time later, things could be different. With enough Tivo and other DVR users out there, being on Friday evening might not be bad for a series.

Your right season 3 and 4 of enterprise was great but it wasn't friday night that killed it, it was seasons 1 and 2 that got it moved in the first place.

SirCastor · Nov 25, 2006, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Aside from the Tron reference, it seems to have something to do with the Cylon concept of death. Some have theorized that whenever the Hybrid says it, it means that a Cylon has either died or downloaded nearby.

Beyond Tron, "End of Line" is a simply computing concept that means "I'm done with that." I didn't think it meant anything more from the Hybrid than "That's all I have to say about that."

Millennium · Nov 25, 2006, 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by SirCastor

Beyond Tron, "End of Line" is a simply computing concept that means "I'm done with that." I didn't think it meant anything more from the Hybrid than "That's all I have to say about that."

I'd go with that, except for the clear 'End Of Line' reference in D'Anna's pre-download sequence. Exactly what it means is still unclear, of course, but that's an awfully unusual place to put a phrase like that without reason.

Chuckit · Nov 25, 2006, 02:19 AM

Did anyone else not know BSG wasn't going to be on tonight, turn on Sci-Fi like usual and find themselves staring at Winnie Cooper in leopard-print pants instead of, you know, a good show?

Dark Helmet · Nov 25, 2006, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Did anyone else not know BSG wasn't going to be on tonight, turn on Sci-Fi like usual and find themselves staring at Winnie Cooper in leopard-print pants instead of, you know, a good show?

Ya in the Canadian trailer last week they mentioned it.

jokell82 · Nov 25, 2006, 10:02 AM

They also mentioned it in the US preview right after last week's episode.

SirCastor · Nov 25, 2006, 03:44 PM

I read about no episode on the Scifi page...

Dale Sorel · Nov 30, 2006, 09:04 PM

Yay, the podcast for Hero is in

mrtew · Nov 30, 2006, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Ya in the Canadian trailer last week they mentioned it.

So what night will BG be on here from now on? And what date? In Canada.

reader50 · Dec 1, 2006, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

Yay, the podcast for Hero is in

It's a pity that it didn't address any of the problems in the episode. It didn't even mention why it was delayed for so long. Technical difficulties, of course.

• How did Adama go from commanding the Galactica for three years before the attack to one year? Could the Valkyrie have been a temp assignment, then back to Galactica?
• Why did the Stealth Star show up clearly on Dradis? It was also real easy for the unknown ship to target, and equally easy for the Valkyrie's missle to target. Maybe they all homed in on the open wireless transmissions.
• How did the Cylons locate the fleet in order to steer Bulldog towards it?
• Why didn't Bulldog steal a Heavy Raider with (hopefully) real controls instead of a regular Raider, which needs hours of experimenting to figure out how to fly?
• What happened to Bulldog's ~~radio~~ wireless set? He must have left it in the Raider, but where did it come from?
• After escorting the Raider in, I'd expect Starbuck and Kat to remain on patrol. Instead, Starbuck is in the Hanger to watch Bulldog get out. Apparently, she came in first while the Raider waited, so she could be on foot in the Hanger Deck when the Raider comes out of the elevator.
• Adama must be really slow. He's had over a year in orbit of New Caprica, with more time before that to realize Boomer had been around years before the attack. So why's he worried about provoking the attack when he has to know the Cylons breached the Armistice long before? After all, he's chatted for months with Sharon Agathon in her cell. They must have talked about something.
• Starbuck is really slow too if she needed pictures and hours later to realize the Cylons were shooting to miss. The op had been right in front of her eyes. She doesn't seem too concerned with the certainty that for the Cylons to send Bulldog, they had to know where the fleet is. While I'd be concerned about locking Bulldog up, I'd also be pulling for the fleet to execute a fresh jump like right now.
• Tigh is awfully strong and spry to outwrestle the pushups champion for that pipe. Speaking of which, the Cylon prisoner rations must be quite filling.
• How come no one is ostracizing Helo after last week's betrayal?

Regarding the timeline. In the Mini, Gaeta congratulates Adama for serving with him for three years. They can maybe get around this by saying Gaeta was on the Valkyrie too, but then there is this quote from Col. Tigh in Sacrifice (2x16) around 6-8 months after the attack.

Originally Posted by Col Tigh a bit over halfway in

I think there's part of you that looks into that thing's eyes [Sharon Agathon] and still sees that young girl [Boomer] that reported aboard two years ago as a rook pilot; well it's not. It never was. Bill, it's a machine.

This means Boomer reported aboard to Adama/Tigh 16-18 months before the attack. It's hard to believe she reported aboard the Valkyrie, and then the rook pilot followed the Commander to the Galactica too. btw, this quote may show an error itself in Sacrifice. Inexperienced pilots are generally called "nuggets" (diamonds in the rough) in the BSG universe. I'm not sure if I recall any derivative of "rookie" being used.

While I still like the feel of the episode (and the acting was fine), the inconsistencies keep bugging me. The fact that more keep popping up. This episode wasn't up to the writer's normal standards.

Dark Helmet · Dec 1, 2006, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

• Adama must be really slow. He's had over a year in orbit of New Caprica, with more time before that to realize Boomer had been around years before the attack.

As far as I know the skinjobs all showed up 2 years before the attack.

reader50 · Dec 1, 2006, 02:10 AM

We know that Number Six showed up two years before the attack. Adama probably doesn't know that, Baltar has yet to be in a confessing mood.

Boomer reported aboard 17 months before the attack, but she must have spent one or more years in the Academy before that. And the Cylons would need some time to scout the Colonies for modern social data before they could create Boomer's fake memories and past records.

Boomer's past is the most revealing here, it pushes the Cylon infiltration back to at least 2 1/2 years before the attack, and very likely 3-4 years. Depending on how long one spends in the Academy. And unlike Number Six's past, Adama should know all these details.

Chuckit · Dec 1, 2006, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

How come no one is ostracizing Helo after last week's betrayal?

I assume most people don't know, and those who do (Adama, Roslin) aren't inclined to ostracize him.

Dark Helmet · Dec 1, 2006, 02:15 AM

Originally Posted by reader50

Boomer reported aboard 17 months before the attack, but she must have spent one or more years in the Academy before that. And the Cylons would need some time to scout the Colonies for modern social data before they could create Boomer's fake memories and past records.

I dunno about that. Does any one on board know her from the academy?

goMac · Dec 1, 2006, 02:19 AM

Interesting note in the podcast. The 5 "white blurs" Diana sees between life and death are the 5 remaining Cylons. They are hinting they will be revealed to us by the end of the season.

reader50 · Dec 1, 2006, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

... Does any one on board know her from the academy?

It would be more than a little risky to leave an agent in place for 17 months without having gone through the Academy. Any passing reference to a class she was supposed to have attended could expose her. There is also the question of how she'd know how to fly modern Colonial craft, or handle modern military protocol.

In Home (Part 2 - about 1/3 in) Sharon Agathon has a conversation with Helo under the tent. She recalls getting her wings, and her first trip aboard the Galactica. While she admits those were Boomer's memories, she implied that they were real ones. Who would bother to fondly remember things they knew were faked?

Getting her wings would have happened at the Academy, since Boomer reported aboard as the rook pilot. And Sharon Agathon would be in a position to know where the fake memories became real ones. She had been assigned to impersonate Boomer with someone who had known Boomer. She'd need to know basic stuff like Boomer's insertion date.

paul w · Dec 1, 2006, 11:01 PM

I hate these little nothing happens/ filler episodes. Especially after a break. :/

Besides the fact that the boxing thing was beyond absurd.

SpaceMonkey · Dec 1, 2006, 11:16 PM

Originally Posted by paul w

Besides the fact that the boxing thing was beyond absurd.

But not as bad as TKO

jokell82 · Dec 2, 2006, 12:20 AM

I actually liked tonight's episode - finally found out what happened on New Caprica. I'd been wondering why Starbuck was hesitant to contact Apollo for the meds she needed just before the occupation.

goMac · Dec 2, 2006, 02:55 AM

I liked tonight's episode too. Gave us Adama/Roslyn fans a lot more to hope for.

Oversoul · Dec 2, 2006, 08:03 AM

I actually liked tonight's episode. Not the best by far, but it helped flesh out several of the main characters.

goMac mentioned Adama/Rosalyn, and of course Apollo/Starbuck shippers have to be cheering (or even Dualla haters). I'm not a shipper and I don't really care for most of the relationships that go on in BSG, but admittedly the colonization/occupation of New Caprica left some awkward threads like all these hasty marriages that we now have to recognize. I'm glad this episode at least seemed to put to bed two of them.

It was nice seeing Adama knock down Tyrol, but then it was hard seeing Adama get the beat down later. Intentional? Maybe. The old man's no slouch and he had a message.

It was also a nice touch seeing Tigh with Ellen again. I hate that bitch, but the flashbacks brought us back to happier times.

Speaking of which, New Caprica in the flashbacks actually seemed kind of nice. I thought it was supposed to be some frozen hell hole barely able to support life? If it wasn't then I can understand the motivation to want to settle. But couldn't they have picked a better settlement location?

Millennium · Dec 2, 2006, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

I actually liked tonight's episode - finally found out what happened on New Caprica. I'd been wondering why Starbuck was hesitant to contact Apollo for the meds she needed just before the occupation.

You know, is it just me, or did her "Men are so stupid sometimes" comment just get a lot more ironic? Don't get me wrong; Starbuck is awesome and badass and all, but I don't think I've ever see her be such a ditz.

reader50 · Dec 2, 2006, 01:12 PM

It was ok in my opinion. It didn't have any continuity errors, which helps it a lot over Hero.

The boxing ring appears to have been set up in the Starboard Hanger Deck, which is also the location of Camp Oilslick. This implies the Starboard flight pod isn't back in service yet (or fully), despite Apollo's passing reference in A Measure of Salvation.

New Caprica does look nice, for a world that is marginally habitable. They probably picked the best location on the planet, and the rest goes downhill fast.

So far as I can tell, neither Apollo nor Starbuck were married that night. So it's cheating on boy/girl friends, not breaking vows. Dee can't complain too much, she was two-timing Billy in order to see Apollo at first. But Anders hasn't earned this.

selowitch · 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by reader50

So far as I can tell, neither Apollo nor Starbuck were married that night. So it's cheating on boy/girl friends, not breaking vows. Dee can't complain too much, she was two-timing Billy in order to see Apollo at first. But Anders hasn't earned this.

True, but it still takes on tragic proportions when Kara goes off and marries Anders the very next morning after she and Lee screamed their love for one another following their little romp in the woods. You can see how devastated Lee is when he finds out. I admit I got a little tearful when they held each other, bloodied and bruised, in the boxing ring on Galactica and each said, "I missed you."

I gotta admit, though, that on the worst day of my life I could never strike the woman I love. And the fact that she would kick my ass and make me a instant eunuch for the rest of my life is entirely beside the point.

Then I mischieviously began thinking of all the videos that will circulate of actors pretending to be Richard Hatch and Dirk Benedict (the original Apollo and Starbuck) getting it on as a gay couple. Coming soon to YouTube, mark my words.

Dale Sorel · Dec 2, 2006, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by selowitch

I admit I got a little tearful when they held each other, bloodied and bruised, in the boxing ring on Galactica and each said, "I missed you."

Me too

I gotta admit, though, that on the worst day of my life I could never strike the woman I love.

I think that's just one of the differences between the BSG universe and ours. Evidence Starbuck kicking that first guy's ass in the ring. Not gonna happen in this universe.

ThinkInsane · Dec 3, 2006, 06:09 AM

Interesting idea. Too bad I don't live closer to one of the cities showing the mid-season finale. It'd be cool to see it on the big screen.

Looks like an interesting episode as well:

While working on the algae planet, Tyrol (Aaron Douglas) discovers the Temple of Five, reputed to be the home of the Eye of Jupiter, which will guide the ones who discover it to Earth. His report is intercepted by the Cylons, who request a meeting with Adama (Edward James Olmos) and Laura (Mary McDonnell). Their proposal: let us have the Eye and we will let you leave unharmed. Adama's counter-proposal: make any move to take the Eye and we'll nuke the planet.

The Cylons bring another piece of news: Sharon (Grace Park) and Helo's (Tahmoh Penikett) baby is alive, but not well. Sharon is initially skeptical, but when Adama confirms that Laura hid the baby at her school, she and Tyrol being to make plans to rescue her.

As the standoff continues, tensions rise in both camps. On the Cylon baseship, D'Anna's (Lucy Lawless) sense that she and Baltar (James Callis) share a destiny that might not include the others sows dissension, while on the algae planet, efforts to protect the Eye are complicated by Lee's simmering affair with Kara (Katee Sackhoff), especially since Lee (Jamie Bamber) is counting on Anders (Michael Trucco), Kara's husband, to rally the civilians to the cause. Then the Cylons launch a flight of raiders, bound for the algae planet, forcing Adama to show he's not bluffing.

Millennium · Dec 3, 2006, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by selowitch

Then I mischieviously began thinking of all the videos that will circulate of actors pretending to be Richard Hatch and Dirk Benedict (the original Apollo and Starbuck) getting it on as a gay couple. Coming soon to YouTube, mark my words.

Yeah; the slash-fiends are going to go absolutely insane over this one.

mrtew · Dec 3, 2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by selowitch

..... Richard Hatch and Dirk Benedict (the original Apollo and Starbuck) getting it on as a gay couple. Coming soon to YouTube, mark my words.

Yeah, my buddy was watching the new episode with me and asked, "So you mean that Starbuck and Apollo have been secretly in love with each other all this time?" And I said, "Yeah, they were in the old show too"

hart · Dec 3, 2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Oversoul

I actually liked tonight's episode. Not the best by far, but it helped flesh out several of the main characters.

goMac mentioned Adama/Rosalyn, and of course Apollo/Starbuck shippers have to be cheering (or even Dualla haters).

there are Dualla haters? why? Do they think she's a suck up? I felt sorry for her actually. I'm not a big Lee fan. He needs a good smack sometimes.

that Adama/Rosalyn thing, the episode didn't actually show us what happened for the rest of the night heh heh. They make a great couple for dramatic purposes and as actors. I'm always impressed with how much what's her name, the Rosalyn actress, manages to squeeze out of a tiny facial shift.

In spite of no action per se I thought this was a good episode in terms of moving the secondary story forward ie. the whole relationships/morality thing. And slightly off topic one thing I like about this show is the physical diversity that it embraces, relative to other TV. Having Starbuck and Adama out there showing off their non-standard TV physiques is great. It says to me at least that something besides California-style perfection is OK, and even actually hot.

Oversoul · Dec 3, 2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by hart

there are Dualla haters? why? Do they think she's a suck up? I felt sorry for her actually. I'm not a big Lee fan. He needs a good smack sometimes.

Yes. Mainly because Dualla is such a pointless character. She has almost no screen time and what screen time she does get is usually some bland "Yes sir," press the button kind of scene. Her entire relationship with Apollo seemed a bit contrived and there's no chemistry there at all. The writers should do something with her or just kill her off.

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 02:03 PM

How did they get big trucks on New Caprica anyway?

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Oversoul

Speaking of which, New Caprica in the flashbacks actually seemed kind of nice. I thought it was supposed to be some frozen hell hole barely able to support life? If it wasn't then I can understand the motivation to want to settle. But couldn't they have picked a better settlement location?

It is called Canada.

Anywho, the flashbacks seen to be very early on when they first arrived and very few people are on the surface yet so it is nice and peaceful. Throw 40,000 in any small space and it will turn into mud in no time.

I liked the small detail of Baltars ground breaking ceremony as you could see in the background a picture for some small building housing plans. I don't know if it was the same houses the Cylons would later use to hold Starbuck in but it was a nice touch.

Eug · Dec 3, 2006, 04:06 PM

That was a huge improvement over last week's episode. Hero just sucked. Unfinished Business wasn't great, but it was OK.

No action, but the story actually made sense. I was worried a bit at the beginning because of that who boxing thing and the flashbacks, but it was reasonably done.

goMac · Dec 3, 2006, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

That was a huge improvement over last week's episode. Hero just sucked. Unfinished Business wasn't great, but it was OK.

I thought Hero was a pretty good episode. It was the first episode to give us insight into Adama's motivations.

Dark Helmet · Dec 3, 2006, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I thought Hero was a pretty good episode. It was the first episode to give us insight into Adama's motivations.

The story concept was ok but there was too many holes in the story and head scratchers that put a bad taste in peoples mouths.

Oversoul · Dec 3, 2006, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

It is called Canada.

Anywho, the flashbacks seen to be very early on when they first arrived and very few people are on the surface yet so it is nice and peaceful. Throw 40,000 in any small space and it will turn into mud in no time.

I know that, but I recall the initial surveys of the planet suggested it was already a hell hole barely able to support life even before 40,000 people muddied it up. That's partly why there was outrage at Baltar's call to settle (aside it being a blatant political vehicle to win the election).

Dark Helmet · Dec 5, 2006, 06:24 PM

Neat. So it turns out not even the Cylons know who the remaining 5 Cylons are and Lawless thinks they live between life and death:

http://www.lucylawless.info/articles...dec-4-2006.jpg

selowitch · Dec 5, 2006, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by hart

They make a great couple for dramatic purposes and as actors. I'm always impressed with how much what's her name, the Rosalyn actress, manages to squeeze out of a tiny facial shift.

I agree that Mary McDonnell consistently gives excellent performances, as does Edward James Olmos as William Adama. However, there has been a scene or two that's bugged me. When she is working with Tom Zarek (Richard Hatch) to escape the Cyclons on New Caprica, her mood is a bit too perky. She's practically flirting with the guy, and looks less like one plotting a rebellion than a cheerleader planning a date with the local motorcycle punk.

But, that aside, she's done a great job, and that scene I'm complaining about could just as well be the director's fault.

hart · Dec 5, 2006, 07:38 PM

okay, I suppose I'm just a suspension-of-disbelief type of sucker. I just watch and let most of the discrepencies slip by. I WANT to buy into the story. Guess I'm just not a hard core "speculative fiction" geek, always fussing over the physics of space vacuum and that kind of thing. I mean, I'll pick off obvious continuity errors of the glass empty in one shot then full in the next sort but in general I don't obsess and let the details ruin my absorption in the story.

When my kids say why is there a bath tub full of water "under the sea" in SpongeBob, I'm completely accepting, that's the world of SpongeBob. So because I am the Official Naive Viewer I liked that "Hero" gave us more of a sense of the murkiness of everyone's choices in the shades-of-grey galaxy the writers are showing us.