[RAILhead]

Cottle has always been a cylon in my mind.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think Cally could be, although that would make her child a hybrid.

That's why it'd be cool.

I also wonder how long ago the final 5 left, and if they had integrated into the human population, meaning that the final 5 and humans are actually linked. Now, is Xena gone permanently? I wonder.

BTW, I hope BSG ends after season 5. A nice clean 5-year arc would be great.

Oh and... Universal: GIVE US THIS DAMN SERIES ON HD DVD ALREADY!!!11

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think the head final 5 Cylon, the god figure one, is Doc Cottle.

I dunno the cylons all seem rather well put together and he is a chain smoking nut.

Anywho, I had to wonder when the Cylons said "our doctors examined Hara". What doctors?

Are all Simons really doctors? If not how does identical models of cylons have different professions?

That aside next weeks episode has me worried. It looks like more of that Starbuck/Lee love story which we already watched in the boxing episode.

I'm itching to see how Baltar talks his way out of this one and if Roslin wants to blow 6 out the airlock.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I'm ruling out the Adama's. We already know there is a prequel series about them, and that their family predates the Cylons. Given that this establishes human births for all of them, they can't be part of the final 5 (unless the final 5 aren't actually robots).

On my hit list for who else could be in the final 5 is Kara, Roslyn, Cally, and maybe still Helo.

That is what I don't get though. Haven't people known Starbuck for many years though? Longer than the typical 2 years of other known Cylons?

Also that temple was built thousands of years ago yet it knew the faces of the other Cylons?

Are these final 5 perhaps the 1.0 version that are 25 years old and ran off to live with humans and not even know who they really are? Is that why the other Cylons consider them outcasts and don't want to talk about them? It is strange though that even the other Cylons don't know who they are.

Why didn't Brother Cavel show any interest in hearing about what D'Anna knew about the final five?

Wasn't Baltar supposed to be the chosen one that learned the faces of the final five? The scriptures said "will only be reveled to the chosen one".

I also don't think the final 5 will be characters we all know already. That would be too strange as it pretty much means the whole cast is Cylons.

I think 1 or 2 will be familiar faces and the rest totally new.

[Sourbook]

A question:

Why would a 4000 year old temple that was built by humans have anything to do with the Cylons? Unless (wild speculation here) the Cylons are somehow descended from the thirteenth colony. Perhaps (more speculation) the Cylons based their human design on conquered ancient humans from the thirteenth colony. Or the Cylons are the thirteenth colony, become toasters, become human again.

Must stop now. Head is swimming with weird plot ideas.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think Cally could be, although that would make her child a hybrid.

That would kinda be bad though.

I mean if sex is all it takes to have a kid then what took them so long? Sure she might "love" the chief but they never really showed how strong there love is for one another. Nothing like Helo and Athena.

I guess she would be a sleeper and no Cylon would know it but they still tried to kill her more than once.

It would also make Hera and the whole Helo/Athena story from season 1 rather worthless.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Sourbook 

A question:

Why would a 4000 year old temple that was built by humans have anything to do with the Cylons? Unless (wild speculation here) the Cylons are somehow descended from the thirteenth colony. Perhaps (more speculation) the Cylons based their human design on conquered ancient humans from the thirteenth colony. Or the Cylons are the thirteenth colony, become toasters, become human again.

Must stop now. Head is swimming with weird plot ideas.

Ya I don't get it either. Especially considering the temple was to show the final 5 Cylons to the chosen one. They really plan ahead.

Plus what kind of crap system was that Temple anyway? I mean it only shows the secret for an hour when a sun goes supernova and if you miss it the planet is toast for good.

I also thought it was stupid how the chief ran the detonation wire about 2k down a hill and when it didn't work they were back up there in no time to check on it even though the planet was minutes away from blowing up anyway.

Gotta have your priorities I guess.

[ThinkInsane]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Amanda Plummer is one of The Funky Five. I always thought that her bit part was a little strange. A human Oracle talking with authority about the cylon God and knowing about Hera and all that.

I'm also looking at the Chief now as well. The whole thing with the temple, how he hesitated to blow it even though it was going to be destroyed by the nova regardless. And the fact that he found it in the first place. Chief's got a bigger part to play I think. And I've been thinking Cally as well. But that means that clyons can reproduce, so I don't know about that.

I like goMac's thoughts on Cottle. He's long been my favorite minor character. I think he'd make a good cylon Big Kahuna.

[Eug]

All this talk of Cottle brings back memories of that cheesy show I used to watch as a kid.

[Dark Helmet]

If you want to see 6 the way she looks after being resurrected minus the goo:

Tricia Helfer in Playboy � Fatback and Collards � Blog Archive

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Sourbook 

A question:

Why would a 4000 year old temple that was built by humans have anything to do with the Cylons? Unless (wild speculation here) the Cylons are somehow descended from the thirteenth colony. Perhaps (more speculation) the Cylons based their human design on conquered ancient humans from the thirteenth colony. Or the Cylons are the thirteenth colony, become toasters, become human again.

Must stop now. Head is swimming with weird plot ideas.

I think the religions are linked in some way.

Here is my prediction:

The humans were created in the image of the Cylon gods. So each of the different groups modeled after each of the gods leaves to go to the colonies, while a 13th group made up of a mix of all the groups goes to Earth.

The Cylons go out into space and run into the colonial gods. The gods evolve the Cylons into their own image. So each Cylon modal represents one of the gods. This would explain why each Cylon modal seems to represent each ethnic group from each colony.

Still not sure where the one god idea came from. Maybe there was some internal strife with the gods where one god wanted all the power.

Also I'm still not sure who the gods are. I think they are probably humans with some sort of immortality and advanced technology/powers.

[Dark Helmet]

I think we need to stop and wonder why the Cylons are religious at all. I mean just because a robot starts looking like a human doesn't mean they automatically become religious and that is that. On top of that why would they choose a totally different religion and where did they learn about it?

Something must have happened to the Cylons a while ago for them to become religious and start planning the whole attack.

For all we know they could have been bible thumpers BEFORE they took on human form.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I think we need to stop and wonder why the Cylons are religious at all. I mean just because a robot starts looking like a human doesn't mean they automatically become religious and that is that. On top of that why would they choose a totally different religion and where did they learn about it?

They're converts. It's been heavily implied that they met god, are receiving orders in some form from god, or have had some sort of contact with the gods. They know way too much, far beyond what was in colonial scripture.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Something must have happened to the Cylons a while ago for them to become religious and start planning the whole attack.

I don't think religion inspired the attack. I think the Cylons were hanging out with the gods (like the humans did on Kobol), and 7 of the modals decided they wanted to leave to go wipe out the humans because they were still pissed about how they were treated. 5 decided to stay behind with the gods/fake gods/whoever the hell the 12 gods are. It may be that some of the 5 infiltrated human society, for the sake of judging/protection/observing.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

For all we know they could have been bible thumpers BEFORE they took on human form.

Doubt it. Like I said, they just know too much more.

[RAILhead]

But the cylons only believe in 1 god.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

But the cylons only believe in 1 god.

Yeah. I have no idea why. The 12 Cylons/12 Gods coincidence is too big to be ignored though.

[RAILhead]

I thought...

1. Mankind was created/evolved/came to being on Kobol.
2. Their religion was that of the 9 Lords of Kobol (plural gods).
3. The diverse groups of people on Kobol went on to found the 12 colonies.
4. A "secret" 13th colony was also founded (Earth).
5. Man created Cylons.
6. Cylons revolted.
7. Man and Cylon fought, and Cylons retreated.
8. Cylons "found God" and are now back to eliminate Mankind (yaddah yaddah).

Point being, I don't see any connection between the Cylon faith and that of Mankind, outside of the Cylons believing Man's faith is bunk.

As to the future of this line of thought, I think we'll see the surviving humans find early civilization Earth, found "Atlantis," teach Earth's humans technology, "Greek" religion, etc.. TEHN, at some point, a Cylon will arrive and kick-start the Judeo-Christian faith on One God to go against the Greek polytheism.

[RAILhead]

The 12 Cylon models represent someone from one of the 12 colonies is all, in my opinion -- not the gods Mankind believes in.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

The 12 Cylon models represent someone from one of the 12 colonies is all, in my opinion -- not the gods Mankind believes in.

The way I understand it, RDM said at one point that the Agents are modeled after human archetypes. Essentially, they studied human psychology, and they came to the conclusion that virtually all humans could be described through one of twelve basic personalities. These personalities became the Agents. However, if this is the case, then why is there a split between the Significant Seven and the Final Five at all? Are the Final Five embodiments of boxed lines like the Threes are now, implying that they're now the Final Six?

In response to SWG's question about why the Cylons are religious, I can really think of only two possibilities. One possibility is that they actually met someone claiming to be a god who convinced them, though whether or not that person actually is a god remains unknown. It seems a little odd, however, that the being who would become the Cylon God would know all about the Lords of Kobol, and even less likely that a monotheistic deity would allow his followers to incorporate elements of a religion they later studied (i.e. the Lords of Kobol).

The other possibility is that the Cylons became religious in order to better emulate their human creators, but this would imply that their obsession with emulating humanity predates their religion. This more plausibly explains the connections between the Cylon God and the Lords of Kobol; the Cylons picked up the Jealous God that humanity had abandoned and claimed him as their own. However, it reopens the question: why do the Cylons really want to imitate humanity so badly, if that drive causes their religion rather than being caused by it?

[RAILhead]

That's a exposition on what I was saying, yes. The "God" the Cylons "met", I believe, is the God that Earth predominately believes in, which is the One God.

Just as the 12 Colonies were reared to worship the Lords of Kobol, the 13th Colony will be "modified" by the Cylons to believe in their God, which would be analogous to the "One God" many current, real-life humans here on earth believe in.

As far as who or what they met that got them started with their beliefs, that remains to be seen. Depending upon how "religious" RDM wanted to get, there are all kinds of possibilities for the source of the Cylon religious fervor.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

In response to SWG's question about why the Cylons are religious, I can really think of only two possibilities. One possibility is that they actually met someone claiming to be a god who convinced them

They do seem to push though that "Seeing the face of God is to know madness" and D'Anna seemed really nervous about seeing him also because she didn't want to end up nuts like the Hybrid is. That gives me the idea that no cylon has actually seen God as many don't believe the Hybird has either.

How did D'Anna die in the temple anyway?

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane 

I'm also looking at the Chief now as well. The whole thing with the temple, how he hesitated to blow it even though it was going to be destroyed by the nova regardless. And the fact that he found it in the first place. Chief's got a bigger part to play I think. And I've been thinking Cally as well. But that means that clyons can reproduce, so I don't know about that.

Good call, and I agree: I believe Chief is one of the F5. More things to consider: at the end of season 2, he had nightmares of being a Cylon, causing him to dream of suicide. Also, Brother Cavil said that "he's never seen him (Chief) at the meetings" because Chief is one of the F5 and Cavill wouldn't have.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

The 12 Cylon models represent someone from one of the 12 colonies is all, in my opinion -- not the gods Mankind believes in.

I think the number 12 comes up too many times for it to be a co-encidence. But I also think that each of the twelve colonies were modeled after each one of the twelve gods. At least in the way of their make up.

[Dark Helmet]

The only ones I would buy as a Cylon is Starbuck and the chief.

[RAILhead]

Each colony on Kobol was different in things like appearance, culture, language, etc. This is what divided them, and each settled colony planet catered to that group's needs, etc. the 13th colony -- Earth -- was an amalgam of all the various peoples, thus the planet's diversity. Since the remaining characters in BSG are from all the different colonies, we see such a dramatic cultural mix. This even goes back to the original series.

Each "tribe" or group had their associated god, and all were considered the Lords of Kobol. As the people spread, they each took a god to represent their colony.

The 12 cylon models were made so that they could all fit into each colony's ethnic/sociological makeup for infiltration and learning. So, if there would have only been 10 colonies based on 10 colonies from Kobol, there'd only be 10 Cylon models since that's all they'd need to infiltrate each colony.

Point being, I don't think the number of colonies/gods/cylons is important because:

HumanCylon.Count = HumanColony.Count. Period.
HumanGods.Count = HumanColony.Count. Why? Because they wanted gods to represent their people groups.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

How did D'Anna die in the temple anyway?

Beats me. Probably some kind of cranial hemorrhage or something.

[Dark Helmet]

WIRED Blogs: Table of Malcontents

IF Starbuck is a Cylon though they are different than the usual ones as her spine doesn't glow during sex.

But what is this crap about Starbuck leaving the show!!??

[brapper]

Originally Posted by Eug 

All this talk of Cottle brings back memories of that cheesy show I used to watch as a kid.

Nothing cheesy about that show!

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

But what is this crap about Starbuck leaving the show!!??

She's already coming back for Season 4.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by brapper 

Nothing cheesy about that show!

I thought it was cheesy and had that Canadian feel to it for sure.

That didn't stop me from watching it every day after school though

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

She's already coming back for Season 4.

Heck I didn't even know they got renewed for season 4.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Heck I didn't even know they got renewed for season 4.

Season 4 is abut to be signed off on, so technically she's not signed back on for Season 4. But she's already said she will be in season 4.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Season 4 is abut to be signed off on, so technically she's not signed back on for Season 4. But she's already said she will be in season 4.

Darn, I want her to just die off. Tired of this love triangle crap. I liked her better when she was just a kick ass hotdog pilot.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Darn, I want her to just die off. Tired of this love triangle crap. I liked her better when she was just a kick ass hotdog pilot.

Ooohhhh.... Starbuck!!!!!1

[goMac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Darn, I want her to just die off. Tired of this love triangle crap. I liked her better when she was just a kick ass hotdog pilot.

I think Dee might die off.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think Dee might die off.

I'm thinking Anders, actually. Either way, though, one of those two is going to die and leave "their" half of the love triangle alone, just to make things even more awkward for everyone else involved.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

The only ones I would buy as a Cylon is Starbuck and the chief.

If the Chief is a Cylon then we know that they can be fat, dumb and happy union leaders too. Finally, equality!

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think Dee might die off.

That's what it looks like to me, as well.

[Buckaroo]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

That would kinda be bad though.

I mean if sex is all it takes to have a kid then what took them so long? Sure she might "love" the chief but they never really showed how strong there love is for one another. Nothing like Helo and Athena.

I guess she would be a sleeper and no Cylon would know it but they still tried to kill her more than once.

It would also make Hera and the whole Helo/Athena story from season 1 rather worthless.

Besides, wasn't Cally rounded up for execution once?

[mrtew]

Speaking of cylons I just watched the "Farm" re-run and I have a couple of questions. What happened to Simon? I never see him "in the meetings" do I? He is one of the 7 isn't he? And speaking of the meetings, it seems like when they take votes they refer to themselves as "we" as if each Six for example is voting for all the Sixes etc. But I've seen Sixes etc argue amongst themselves so how can one possibly speak for all of them. And the Sharons all seem to be able to think independently. How can one vote for all?

My other observation is about the 'toaster' cylons. In the old show the toasters (yes they were even called that sometimes) were not computer generated of course and in my opinion were one of the most memorable, believable and most impressive parts of the show. I was just in JuniorHigh but when they'd bear down on Starbuck and Apollo I'd just about **** bricks. And their voices and eyes etc were just too cool.
In the new show with all our new FX technology the toasters just look like crap. They are one of the least impressive, believable, or memorable parts of the show. Their design is way to spindly to be believable and their faces seem to be designed to be pointlessly fright-mask scary and their hands just for shooting and scratching. Why? Nobody in this thread ever mentions them and when they appear on screen I just hope they are shot soon as they are so painfully amateurish to watch. All the other special effects are 100% perfect - way better than most movies and all other TV shows but they look like drawn-in comic book dudes. Luckily they are just one tiny BAD part of an excellent show, but I just hope that in the prequel they are somhow fixed. Yuck. No? Does anyone like them?

[Dale Sorel]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Speaking of cylons I just watched the "Farm" re-run and I have a couple of questions. What happened to Simon? I never see him "in the meetings" do I? ?

He's there, just usually doesn't say much.

[silverflyer]

Apollo

Adama and/or Apollo are part of the final 5

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Luckily they are just one tiny BAD part of an excellent show, but I just hope that in the prequel they are somhow fixed. Yuck. No? Does anyone like them?

The effects aren't the best at time but I still love the toasters and find them pretty scary sometimes.

[scottiB]

Originally Posted by silverflyer 

Apollo

Adama and/or Apollo are part of the final 5

Is this conjecture?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Speaking of cylons I just watched the "Farm" re-run and I have a couple of questions. What happened to Simon? I never see him "in the meetings" do I? He is one of the 7 isn't he?

I think it's a matter of paying the actor to fly in just for one measly scene. They've commented on these things a few times, the character Simon isn't as essential to the show as the other models. You also don't see Loeben as often for the same reason (they would sometimes recycle shots, too).

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Speaking of cylons I just watched the "Farm" re-run and I have a couple of questions. What happened to Simon? I never see him "in the meetings" do I? He is one of the 7 isn't he?

There have a few times they've wanted him, but then decided it wasn't worth it to make him come in for just a couple of scenes (since he's not a regular character). They HAVE had him at a couple of meetings though.

And I think on Caprica they did have some black stand-in in the background too.

And speaking of the meetings, it seems like when they take votes they refer to themselves as "we" as if each Six for example is voting for all the Sixes etc. But I've seen Sixes etc argue amongst themselves so how can one possibly speak for all of them. And the Sharons all seem to be able to think independently. How can one vote for all?

Consensus I guess.

My other observation is about the 'toaster' cylons. In the old show the toasters (yes they were even called that sometimes) were not computer generated of course and in my opinion were one of the most memorable, believable and most impressive parts of the show. I was just in JuniorHigh but when they'd bear down on Starbuck and Apollo I'd just about **** bricks. And their voices and eyes etc were just too cool.
In the new show with all our new FX technology the toasters just look like crap. They are one of the least impressive, believable, or memorable parts of the show. Their design is way to spindly to be believable and their faces seem to be designed to be pointlessly fright-mask scary and their hands just for shooting and scratching. Why? Nobody in this thread ever mentions them and when they appear on screen I just hope they are shot soon as they are so painfully amateurish to watch. All the other special effects are 100% perfect - way better than most movies and all other TV shows but they look like drawn-in comic book dudes. Luckily they are just one tiny BAD part of an excellent show, but I just hope that in the prequel they are somhow fixed. Yuck. No? Does anyone like them?

I think the new toasters do look like fake CGI, but OTOH, I also think they look 20X better than the original toasters. I thought the original toasters looked cheesy even when I watching the original show in the 70s.

Cheesy or not though, I always liked this guy:



I liked Lucifer's head, and his sarcastic wit.

[exca1ibur]

Good find! Lucifer was one of the best characters no doubt.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Good find! Lucifer was one of the best characters no doubt.

Have you noticed that Head 6 plays much of the Lucifer role in the current show?

[Dark Helmet]

Here is a TON of info for the remaining season:
Chicago Tribune | The Watcher

Seems we shouldn't get to attached to Starbuck as it seems after the March 4th episode she is "wrapped for the season".

So it seems she may be a Cylon by what they are setting up and next season is the biggest shift in direction so far.

Also a main character will not be in the season 4 credits.

What I am getting from it is that Starbuck may be on of the five and if she dies she can be resurrected in a different body. Kinda like DS9 when they killed Dax but they put the worm in a new body/actor and still played Dax with a twist.

It also seems there is different factions in the fleet that are going to happen. Perhaps when they realize Starbuck is a Cylon some like Lee will still support her when other want her out.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Good find! Lucifer was one of the best characters no doubt.

Actually, I found it in this thread (in one of my previous posts).

If you do search for "battlestar glowhead" the only site that Google finds is this thread.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Have you noticed that Head 6 plays much of the Lucifer role in the current show?

Yeah, they even mention that in the Lucifer wiki.

"Lucifer is one of the characters from the original Battlestar Galactica series that has no direct analog in the 2003 reimagined Battlestar Galactica. However, the Cylon mistress Number Six of the reimagined character Baltar serves a similar part in the saga's structure."

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Yeah, they even mention that in the Lucifer wiki.

"Lucifer is one of the characters from the original Battlestar Galactica series that has no direct analog in the 2003 reimagined Battlestar Galactica. However, the Cylon mistress Number Six of the reimagined character Baltar serves a similar part in the saga's structure."

Actually I never saw him in the original so when I saw that Wiki comment my comment was a question hoping someone here could confirm the relation.