[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

So next week we get a re-run but the following episode looks kinda crappy anyway. Plus that guy from the first X-men is in it.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

So next week we get a re-run but the following episode looks kinda crappy anyway.

I thought the same thing about yesterday's episode when I saw the preview, but it turned out to be a pretty good one, in my book.

Next episode looks like more filler, but hopefully it'll be as well executed as its predecessor.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Anyway, I don't think he is a Cylon but there still is something very special about him.

I don't think there is anything special about him. For some reason the Six in his head wants him to feel special, but I don't think he actually is. We already know Baltar has a pre-disposition for wanting to believe he is special, but I don't think he actually is.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I don't think there is anything special about him. For some reason the Six in his head wants him to feel special, but I don't think he actually is. We already know Baltar has a pre-disposition for wanting to believe he is special, but I don't think he actually is.

You're right but that still makes him special as she thinks he is important enough to make things go in the plan she wants.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

You're right but that still makes him special as she thinks he is important enough to make things go in the plan she wants.

I disagree. I think he's just a pawn. Whoever is behind the Six in his head wanted a target that could easily be manipulated and was in a position of power. Baltar can easily be manipulated because he believes he is special, all you have to do is feed that believe and he'll willingly be your pawn.

[RAILhead]

We have to wonder how closely the current Balter falls in sync with the original Baltar. If they end up playing the "new" Baltar like the original, he *is* important.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

We have to wonder how closely the current Balter falls in sync with the original Baltar. If they end up playing the "new" Baltar like the original, he *is* important.

The original Baltar wasn't really important either. Again, he was just a pawn changing sides. There was nothing inherently important about him. He just did whatever was necessary to stay alive.

[reader50]

• The Gaeta whispering incident, followed by violence. From the podcast, this was part of a plotline they later abandoned - it didn't fit well with later episodes. Basically, Baltar was accusing Gaeta of complicity in something during the occupation for which he was innocent. The producers went back and cleaned that plotline out of the story, the whispering was the last remnant. It can now be ignored as some random insult or lie from Baltar. Gaeta already had reason to kill Baltar; he'd been about to at the end of the occupation. This episode establishes that Gaeta was already thinking to pick up on that, the whisper just pushed it to the front again.

• Is Baltar a Cylon? The rebirth scenes have to be entirely imaginary. With a real Download, they get cached in a Resurrection facility until rebirth slots are available. Sometimes for more than a day, if things are busy. The transfer-to-new-body part happens well after the upload, which is itself instantaneous or very close to it, in order to beat bullets-to-the-head or explosives. Also, a hypothetical new Baltar body wouldn't have the beard grown. Finally, the Final Five can't have spare bodies on hand in regular Resurrection facilities, or the visible Cylons would determine their identities by checking inventory. The Final Five body patterns may well be on file, but they'd have to clone a body from protected memory or something. I can't see that they'd have spares on tap.

My answer is that Baltar is not a Cylon, because Number Six stated definitively that he isn't. I've come back around to the opinion that Number Six is objectively real, she just isn't connected to Caprica Six. Number Six may be one of the Final Five or some other party, keeping Baltar company via an unknown projection process. In Torn, she provided data about Cylon Projection before the Cylons did, indicating she had independent information. It ties in with a few warnings she's given in the past, where Baltar didn't seem to have enough information to draw conclusions on his own.

• Where is Baltar-in-Caprica's-head? We've seen almost nothing from Caprica's viewpoint since Downloaded. And that is the only viewpoint we'd see him from. I've certainly been missing him, I'd like to know if his info is as independent as Number Six's is. Clues to if the head companions are objectively real. Hopefully, Caprica-in-a-cell will provide something from her viewpoint in future episodes.

• What happens if you do CPR on a Cylon after they upload? (goMac) If the upload process is indeed based on Jumping a minute brain portion, then that portion may just be a data archive. The previous body might be resuscitated with the person as-is. Or the upload sequence might trigger an internal wipe sequence to prevent that. Or the portion that is jumped might be more than an archive. We don't know enough about the Resurrection sequence to guess; all Downloads so far have either worked perfectly or not at all.

• About the glow-spine during sex. We saw it with Baltar/Caprica before the attack. We saw it with Helo/Sharon after the attack. We never saw a sex scene with Boomer/Tyrol, or with any known Cylon and any other party. So we don't know if it happens every time, or only on a successful conception. We can't tell that for sure because Caprica's body at the time was destroyed in the attack, so we never found out if she'd been knocked up. Interesting note, we later saw Baltar with Starbuck. His spine didn't glow, and her back was to the mattress.

• We need a slimmer version of this ep's title to quote. No way am I going to post the full title as a later reference.

[Eug]

I was hoping they'd get rid of imagination-six after the first season... and she's still here.

I am sick of her, esp. since we now have so many other sixes.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by reader50 

• The Gaeta whispering incident, followed by violence. From the podcast, this was part of a plotline they later abandoned - it didn't fit well with later episodes.

Interesting. Why did they keep it in this episode then, I wonder?

• Is Baltar a Cylon? The rebirth scenes have to be entirely imaginary. With a real Download, they get cached in a Resurrection facility until rebirth slots are available. Sometimes for more than a day, if things are busy. The transfer-to-new-body part happens well after the upload, which is itself instantaneous or very close to it, in order to beat bullets-to-the-head or explosives. Also, a hypothetical new Baltar body wouldn't have the beard grown. Finally, the Final Five can't have spare bodies on hand in regular Resurrection facilities, or the visible Cylons would determine their identities by checking inventory. The Final Five body patterns may well be on file, but they'd have to clone a body from protected memory or something. I can't see that they'd have spares on tap.

Baltar is clearly not one of the known seven. According to Six, he's not one of the Final Five either (though how is she in a position to know this about the Final Five?)

This leaves only two possibilities: either he isn't a Cylon at all, or he's some kind of unique 'thirteenth Cylon.' The idea of a unique Cylon seems highly unlikely, to say the least, which means it's a safe bet that he's human.

• Where is Baltar-in-Caprica's-head? We've seen almost nothing from Caprica's viewpoint since Downloaded. And that is the only viewpoint we'd see him from. I've certainly been missing him, I'd like to know if his info is as independent as Number Six's is. Clues to if the head companions are objectively real. Hopefully, Caprica-in-a-cell will provide something from her viewpoint in future episodes.

I miss Internal-Baltar. He's quite possibly my favorite character in the series.

• What happens if you do CPR on a Cylon after they upload?

My guess is that a Cylon body whose mind has already been uploaded is basically braindead: you might be able to start up basic life functions again, but you couldn't restore consciousness.

The Cylons have no reason to perform CPR on their own kind, not when they'll just download anyway. In that case, they have no need for a body capable of being revived once the important functions have stopped. Indeed, it would be a liability: if a dead body can't be revived then it can't be interrogated.

We don't know enough about the Resurrection sequence to guess; all Downloads so far have either worked perfectly or not at all.

"Perfectly" may not be the best term: while memory and personality transfers seem to have all gone well (too well, perhaps, in Boomer's case), Cavil seems to have trouble with downloading: it makes him sick, and the more he downloads the worse it gets. Leoben doesn't seem to have any trouble downloading, though. It could be argued that D'Anna's signal was degrading the more she downloaded, and this is how she was able to see more and more of the Final Five, but she wouldn't interpret this as 'trouble.'

• About the glow-spine during sex. We saw it with Baltar/Caprica before the attack. We saw it with Helo/Sharon after the attack. We never saw a sex scene with Boomer/Tyrol, or with any known Cylon and any other party.

Actually we did see one (Ellen/Cavil), but Cavil was on the bottom, and I think he might have actually had some clothes on. No spine, but no opportunity to see his spine anyway.

So we don't know if it happens every time, or only on a successful conception. We can't tell that for sure because Caprica's body at the time was destroyed in the attack, so we never found out if she'd been knocked up.

Ooh; now that is an interesting theory. It would make the attacks on the Colonies rather ironic; just before they happened, a hybrid was concieved, but no one will ever know because that Six copy was destroyed in the explosion. Fascinating.

• We need a slimmer version of this ep's title to quote. No way am I going to post the full title as a later reference.

"Cheers", perhaps?

[andi*pandi]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Actually we did see one (Ellen/Cavil), but Cavil was on the bottom, and I think he might have actually had some clothes on. No spine, but no opportunity to see his spine anyway.

thank the lords of kobol we didn't have to see that.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

In the podcast they mention that Gaita's secret is that he likes to wear woman's panties when on duty

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Originally Posted by reader50 

• The Gaeta whispering incident, followed by violence. From the podcast, this was part of a plotline they later abandoned - it didn't fit well with later episodes.

Interesting. Why did they keep it in this episode then, I wonder?

I'd guess for continuity. Later eps were already filmed, with Baltar's pen-stab wound. So the scene had to stay, but they muted Baltar's whisper because the contents were no longer relevant.

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Actually we did see one (Ellen/Cavil), but Cavil was on the bottom, and I think he might have actually had some clothes on. No spine, but no opportunity to see his spine anyway.

I'd missed counting that one. Interestingly, we didn't get to see Ellen's spine either. She had a top on, and the camera angles were poor. Still, I think if there had been a glow, it would have been visible. This may eliminate Ellen from the suspect list. Since she seems to have been around Tie longer than two years before the attack, that's another point in her favor.

Originally Posted by Eug 

I was hoping they'd get rid of imagination-six after the first season... and she's still here.

I am sick of her, esp. since we now have so many other sixes.

I've come to like Number Six. Among other things, she isn't guilty, once it was established she was separate from Caprica Six. Number Six hasn't committed any crimes, unless you count harrassing Baltar.

Caprica Six is interesting too, but she has some baggage.

"I helped kill 20 billion people a couple years ago. Now I feel really bad about it."

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

In the podcast they mention that Gaita's secret is that he likes to wear woman's panties when on duty

No wonder he was going to off Baltar.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Ooh; now that is an interesting theory. It would make the attacks on the Colonies rather ironic; just before they happened, a hybrid was concieved, but no one will ever know because that Six copy was destroyed in the explosion. Fascinating.

In the pilot Six said to Baltar "I love you" and he didn't reply with the same. Later we find out Cylons think love is necessary to get preggers. Athena also seemed to know very quickly that she was carrying a baby so if that was 6's goal she shouldn't have waited till last minute or at the least had an escape plan.

Six also seemed jealous of Athena in season 1 as Helo loved her which she never got from Baltar.

In season 2 the Cylons were fine with killing Athena and the Baby and didn't consider it a high importance. They really only took interest when they changed their plans from kill all humans to something else...

Six also did mention that "officially" her plans were to get the defense codes but "unofficially" she had other motives. To me she is obsessed with love and what "Alive" means so it might have been just to get a human to love her.

[goMac]

You know, we STILL don't know who Caprica 6 met with on Caprica.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by goMac 

You know, we STILL don't know who Caprica 6 met with on Caprica.

I still wonder about that also. Either it could be super important or nothing. She could have just met with one of the regular 7 Cylons.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The original Baltar wasn't really important either. Again, he was just a pawn changing sides. There was nothing inherently important about him. He just did whatever was necessary to stay alive.

You mean outside the fact that he led the hunt for the Galactica and all?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead 

You mean outside the fact that he led the hunt for the Galactica and all?

For like half the first season.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

thank the lords of kobol we didn't have to see that.

Yeah; that's one of those impressive DO NOT WANT concepts.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

In season 2 the Cylons were fine with killing Athena and the Baby and didn't consider it a high importance. They really only took interest when they changed their plans from kill all humans to something else...

Am I the only one that is bothered during the opening theme-song when the subTitles say, "...and they have a plan". I don't think they've had a plan for a LONG time. I don't think they've had a plan at all since they started putting that sentence in the intro actually. Why did they put that stupid sentence in the intro? Even if they did have a plan it sounds really stupid. Is it supposed to sound ominous or something?

[Buckaroo]

Wow, this is impressive. Thanks for the BSG analysis.

Originally Posted by reader50 

• The Gaeta whispering incident, followed by violence. From the podcast, this was part of a plotline they later abandoned - it didn't fit well with later episodes. Basically, Baltar was accusing Gaeta of complicity in something during the occupation for which he was innocent. The producers went back and cleaned that plotline out of the story, the whispering was the last remnant. It can now be ignored as some random insult or lie from Baltar. Gaeta already had reason to kill Baltar; he'd been about to at the end of the occupation. This episode establishes that Gaeta was already thinking to pick up on that, the whisper just pushed it to the front again.

• Is Baltar a Cylon? The rebirth scenes have to be entirely imaginary. With a real Download, they get cached in a Resurrection facility until rebirth slots are available. Sometimes for more than a day, if things are busy. The transfer-to-new-body part happens well after the upload, which is itself instantaneous or very close to it, in order to beat bullets-to-the-head or explosives. Also, a hypothetical new Baltar body wouldn't have the beard grown. Finally, the Final Five can't have spare bodies on hand in regular Resurrection facilities, or the visible Cylons would determine their identities by checking inventory. The Final Five body patterns may well be on file, but they'd have to clone a body from protected memory or something. I can't see that they'd have spares on tap.

My answer is that Baltar is not a Cylon, because Number Six stated definitively that he isn't. I've come back around to the opinion that Number Six is objectively real, she just isn't connected to Caprica Six. Number Six may be one of the Final Five or some other party, keeping Baltar company via an unknown projection process. In Torn, she provided data about Cylon Projection before the Cylons did, indicating she had independent information. It ties in with a few warnings she's given in the past, where Baltar didn't seem to have enough information to draw conclusions on his own.

• Where is Baltar-in-Caprica's-head? We've seen almost nothing from Caprica's viewpoint since Downloaded. And that is the only viewpoint we'd see him from. I've certainly been missing him, I'd like to know if his info is as independent as Number Six's is. Clues to if the head companions are objectively real. Hopefully, Caprica-in-a-cell will provide something from her viewpoint in future episodes.

• What happens if you do CPR on a Cylon after they upload? (goMac) If the upload process is indeed based on Jumping a minute brain portion, then that portion may just be a data archive. The previous body might be resuscitated with the person as-is. Or the upload sequence might trigger an internal wipe sequence to prevent that. Or the portion that is jumped might be more than an archive. We don't know enough about the Resurrection sequence to guess; all Downloads so far have either worked perfectly or not at all.

• About the glow-spine during sex. We saw it with Baltar/Caprica before the attack. We saw it with Helo/Sharon after the attack. We never saw a sex scene with Boomer/Tyrol, or with any known Cylon and any other party. So we don't know if it happens every time, or only on a successful conception. We can't tell that for sure because Caprica's body at the time was destroyed in the attack, so we never found out if she'd been knocked up. Interesting note, we later saw Baltar with Starbuck. His spine didn't glow, and her back was to the mattress.

• We need a slimmer version of this ep's title to quote. No way am I going to post the full title as a later reference.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

I don't know if that is total proof though. The visions he was having because of his hanging could have been a couple things.

Also, if the F5 downloaded into Rez chambers, wouldn't that mean they would need to have F5 bodies sitting around waiting? Wouldn't the Cylons be able to use those bodies to figure out who the F5 are?

[edit]
Whoops, just read reader50's analysis.

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

Am I the only one that is bothered during the opening theme-song when the subTitles say, "...and they have a plan". I don't think they've had a plan for a LONG time. I don't think they've had a plan at all since they started putting that sentence in the intro actually. Why did they put that stupid sentence in the intro? Even if they did have a plan it sounds really stupid. Is it supposed to sound ominous or something?

It used to sound ominous. I'm not sure what it sounds like now, but I agree, it's been a while since the Cylons had 'a plan'.

First it was "Kill the Humans". Because they deserved to be exterminated.
Then it was "Control the Humans". The reason I really only picked up from the finale of Season 2, when 6 was narrating that the cylons would take their place as gods over the humans (is that right?)

Now they've got this crazy idea to find Earth. Does anyone know why?

[Dark Helmet]

Baltar better pray that at his trial that they don't call 6 to the stand especially since Baltar sorta just dumped her.

[SirCastor]

They jumped away from their important source of food. Did they take care of it and I missed it somehow?

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I was hoping they'd get rid of imagination-six after the first season... and she's still here.

I am sick of her, esp. since we now have so many other sixes.

I remember one episode, probably from the first season, where inner-Six did disappear when Baltar rejected her god and plans and appeared to the entire crew as some chick who claimed to have knowlege and evidence about Baltar's traitorism. Clearly none of the actual Cylons, including the Six's have any idea about inner-Six (or inner-Baltar) so that must have been the actal inner-Six projecting herself into everyone's minds rather than just Baltar's. What I'm saying is that she's not just a mental disorder or download glitche or she couldn't have appeared to the entire crew and then gone back in Baltar's head. The inner-Gaius in Caprica's head is the same type of unknown mysery-entity telling us that they can affect humans and cylons in the same way and must be an alien species, a human-cylon mental hybrid, some kind of gods or angels, or perhaps members of the final five.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

They jumped away from their important source of food. Did they take care of it and I missed it somehow?

They'd been harvesting the stuff before Tyrol found the temple. Whether or not they actually got enough food before jumping away isn't really known, though I'm guessing they're going to drop the issue for the time being anyway.

But they didn't really have any choice in the matter. That planet's sun was going nova; they'd have died if they stayed.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I remember one episode, probably from the first season, where inner-Six did disappear when Baltar rejected her god and plans and appeared to the entire crew as some chick who claimed to have knowlege and evidence about Baltar's traitorism. Clearly none of the actual Cylons, including the Six's have any idea about inner-Six (or inner-Baltar) so that must have been the actal inner-Six projecting herself into everyone's minds rather than just Baltar's. What I'm saying is that she's not just a mental disorder or download glitche or she couldn't have appeared to the entire crew and then gone back in Baltar's head. The inner-Gaius in Caprica's head is the same type of unknown mysery-entity telling us that they can affect humans and cylons in the same way and must be an alien species, a human-cylon mental hybrid, some kind of gods or angels, or perhaps members of the final five.

I don't think the Six that tried to point out Gaius as a traitor was the same as the one in his head. And even if it was, I don't think she was "projecting" into everyone's mind.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

They jumped away from their important source of food. Did they take care of it and I missed it somehow?

From what I remember, they were wrapping up operations on the planet when Tyrol went off on his little hike. So I'd assume they had already harvested the large majority of what they needed. Except for maybe the last batch they were working on.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I don't think the Six that tried to point out Gaius as a traitor was the same as the one in his head. And even if it was, I don't think she was "projecting" into everyone's mind.

And they made a point to show Shelly Godfree's glasses that she left in the CIC to back up that someone was physically there.

She did act very much like Head Six though and I have always wondered how she got off the ship. Even if she blew herself out an airlock to be resurrected Cylons don't believe in suicide.

I am still wondering why Head Six was encouraging Baltars suicide in the last episode though.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

And they made a point to show Shelly Godfree's glasses that she left in the CIC to back up that someone was physically there.

But inner-Six seems like she has no contact with the Cylons and they definitely have none with her. She doens't seem to be working towards any of the same goals as them and seems to be directly in touch with God as evidenced by her knowlege of things in the future which none of the other cylons of humans have (aside from inner-Gaius). How could she have caused a real Cylon to appear and then disappear at just the right time to achieve her goals of getting Baltar in line? She has no contact with any of them in any other episode.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

What if head Six and Head Baltar aren't really who they appear to be. It could be someone else like the final five somehow manipulating them both and using the image of someone who they love and trust.

[andi*pandi]

For HeadBaltar, can't it be another example of projecting? But then that brings up again, how can HeadSix appear for baltar if he's not a cylon...

[PBG4 User]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

"Perfectly" may not be the best term: while memory and personality transfers seem to have all gone well (too well, perhaps, in Boomer's case), Cavil seems to have trouble with downloading: it makes him sick, and the more he downloads the worse it gets. Leoben doesn't seem to have any trouble downloading, though. It could be argued that D'Anna's signal was degrading the more she downloaded, and this is how she was able to see more and more of the Final Five, but she wouldn't interpret this as 'trouble.'

Maybe Cavil is having trouble downloading because he has to get through the models he's boxed in the past? I guess the question is, will resurrecting Cylons now see "The final 6" models instead of the final 5?

If this is the case, then maybe Cavil has to go through this protected memory and the boxed models are getting in their licks in / trying to escape somehow.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

For HeadBaltar, can't it be another example of projecting? But then that brings up again, how can HeadSix appear for baltar if he's not a cylon...

Head six did mentioned that it isn't a coincidence but I have no good guesses as to he can project other than the spine glowing sex or something major happened when his house blew up.

Some points here and there that I still mull over.

In season 1 they mention the prophecy is "In the sacred scrolls. 3,600 years ago, Pythia wrote about the exile and the rebirth of a human race. And the lords anointed a leader to guide the caravan of the heavens to their new homeland and unto the leader they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come. She also wrote that the leader suffered a wasting disease and would not live to enter the new land."

Now at the time they made a couple of conclusions on that. First Roslin must be the leader as she is dying and the humans "leader". The lords were not the ones who made her leader though, humans were.

At the time that is cool but I thought of it another way. First Roslin is no longer dying. Sure the cancer could come back but that would be sorta predictable to have it come back just to kill her before reaching earth.

So who else can be the leader be? Starbuck was the one that got the arrow of apollo and used it in the temple, She also seems to have some sort of map (eye of Jupiter) implanted in her head. For all we know she can find out tomorrow she has some serious illness.

Adama, Athena and Baltar also fall under leadership roles though. Adama is leading the fleet and it was his idea to find earth, not Roslins. Athena has taken humans to all sorts of the right places at the right time. Baltar, unknowingly at first and currently reading star charts to find earth.

The other conclusion they make is with "and unto the leader they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come". At the time the 10 + 2 serpents they conclude must mean the 12 vipers leading the attack. I don't buy it as it is a very important passage yet they pass it off to soon and easily with thinking Vipers.

Those numbers are to coincidental. 12 is the number of Cylon models. 12 is the number of colonies.

So when they say: "and unto the leader they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come" It could be thought of in many ways.

First BALTAR was the first person to find out about the 12 models from Six right before the attack. He is also supposedly the one who left the note of "there are 12 cylon models" in Adama's room.

It bothers me because if the Cylons NEVER EVER EVER talk about the final 5 why tell people there are 12 models and not 7? In fact I can't ever remember any of them talking about the 12 until season 3 when Baltar said (not ask) to Six. "There are 12 cylon models. Why do I always only see 7?". Even after that D'Anna is really the only one who ever talks about the final 5 again.

Why would they think 12 vipers means "sign of things to come"? It must mean the 12 Cylon models in the bigger picture of things.

Could the whole point of everything actually a plan by the final 5 to perhaps free themselves from whatever situation they are in? Or is the plan have something to do with all 12 Cylons and humanity creating hybrids for earth with the final 5 playing both sides to make that happen?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mrtew 

I remember one episode, probably from the first season, where inner-Six did disappear when Baltar rejected her god and plans and appeared to the entire crew as some chick who claimed to have knowlege and evidence about Baltar's traitorism. Clearly none of the actual Cylons, including the Six's have any idea about inner-Six (or inner-Baltar) so that must have been the actal inner-Six projecting herself into everyone's minds rather than just Baltar's. What I'm saying is that she's not just a mental disorder or download glitche or she couldn't have appeared to the entire crew and then gone back in Baltar's head. The inner-Gaius in Caprica's head is the same type of unknown mysery-entity telling us that they can affect humans and cylons in the same way and must be an alien species, a human-cylon mental hybrid, some kind of gods or angels, or perhaps members of the final five.

You are confused. The accuser-six was a real Cylon.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Eug 

You are confused. The accuser-six was a real Cylon.

Several people think it was some sort of physical manifestation of head 6 because as soon as Baltar told H6 that he didn't believe in God she vanished and Shelly appeared. Also the whole point of Shelly was to actually put Baltar in a BETTER situation in the end as they Gaita mentions the evidence was faked almost like they did it on purpose. If the Cylons really wanted to hurt only Baltar they could have sent Shelly or D'Anna just to kill him. There is no logical reason why the Cylons would want to help Baltar or care that much about him after the first attack.

[Eug]

There's lots of things in the show that don't make perfect sense.

One example is fat Apollo. He's not fat, then he is, and then he's not. Why? Just because they couldn't figure out what to do with the fatness, so they just killed it, in a less than graceful way. It just disappeared miraculously in a later episode.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Several people think it was some sort of physical manifestation of head 6 because as soon as Baltar told H6 that he didn't believe in God she vanished and Shelly appeared. Also the whole point of Shelly was to actually put Baltar in a BETTER situation in the end as they Gaita mentions the evidence was faked almost like they did it on purpose. If the Cylons really wanted to hurt only Baltar they could have sent Shelly or D'Anna just to kill him. There is no logical reason why the Cylons would want to help Baltar or care that much about him after the first attack.

I think head Six just knew that Shelly was about to come out and accuse Baltar (she knows about a lot of things before they happen). She just leveraged what she knew was coming to try and convert Baltar.

[andi*pandi]

well, Lee supposedly had a year to get fat... but he did lose it very quickly. We saw him work out a bunch of times.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

The other conclusion they make is with "and unto the leader they gave a vision of serpents, numbering two and ten, as a sign of things to come". At the time the 10 + 2 serpents they conclude must mean the 12 vipers leading the attack. I don't buy it as it is a very important passage yet they pass it off to soon and easily with thinking Vipers.

Actually, the only reason we found out about the Pythia prophecy was because Roslin had a vision of snakes on her podium, and claimed there were a dozen of them.

That was the vision of serpents, not the attack Vipers.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Actually, the only reason we found out about the Pythia prophecy was because Roslin had a vision of snakes on her podium, and claimed there were a dozen of them.

That was the vision of serpents, not the attack Vipers.

Correction. That is what her ASSUMPTION of the prophecies was. Kinda lame to write a prophesy about someone seeing snakes on a podium in a press conference.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Correction. That is what her ASSUMPTION of the prophecies was. Kinda lame to write a prophesy about someone seeing snakes on a podium in a press conference.

I guess. The prophesy said there'd be a vision of serpents, and she had a vision of serpents. I just don't know where the attack vipers came from...did anyone in the show ever infer they were part of the prophesy?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

I guess. The prophesy said there'd be a vision of serpents, and she had a vision of serpents. I just don't know where the attack vipers came from...did anyone in the show ever infer they were part of the prophesy?

Yup, they sure did.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Yup, they sure did.

Anyone who *knew* about the President's vision though?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Anyone who *knew* about the President's vision though?

That black priest talked to her about the snakes vsion and later I think it was Starbuck or Baltar that related 12 snakes could mean the 12 vipers.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

That black priest talked to her about the snakes vsion and later I think it was Starbuck or Baltar that related 12 snakes could mean the 12 vipers.

Exactly, so they were trying to explain the prophesy based on the information they had - they didn't know the president saw a vision of snakes.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Exactly, so they were trying to explain the prophesy based on the information they had - they didn't know the president saw a vision of snakes.

That just makes my point stronger though. 10 + 2 serpents can mean a number of things and we have already seen 2 interpretations by 2 people based on the events at the time.

Like I said "a vision of 10 + 2 serpents as a sign of things to come" could easily have meant when Baltar was on Caprica right before the attack when 6 told him there are 12 models. Finding out about the 12 was definitely a sign of things to come.

[jokell82]

I think you're going a little too deep into this and we've heard the last of the serpents from the Pythia prophesy.