[freudling]

Overall great upgrade. I'm running the GM on an iPod Touch 4G.

What I like:

1. Safari Reader. This is killer! Reader has been available on the OS X Safari for a while. Touching the Reader icon in the URL address bar of Mobile Safari presents a cleaned up version of the article. It looks like a book in iBooks. I'm using it all the time. You can even quickly enlarge fonts. This is killer.
2. Notifications. Better. Not perfect, but better.
3. iCloud. It's sick. If it doesn't make an iWork user out of you you're nuts. Online version of iCloud... Mail, Calender, eyc. is sick. And it's free. The online interface is gorgeous. This is going to hurt Google. Bye bye Gmail, you won't be missed.
4. Good performance.
5. iMessage! Love it. Game changer.
6. Siri? Looks cool. Won't run on non A5 gear.

What I don't like:

1. Some badges are still old school blue and in the middle of the screen. Low battery warning screw off!
2. Multi-tasking. Apple is challenged here. It needs a revamp. Something smart like webOS. It's still the grid of icons and tough to multi-task. No widgets... iPad if anything needs Apple to push iOS to the next level.

Overall though, it's good.

[Waragainstsleep]

I put it on my 3GS. I don't get any email on iCloud though. Possibly because I don't have a dev account. I also like the notifications.

Reminders are good and work fine over active sync but I can't use location based reminders which sucks balls because thats a cool feature and there is no reason a 3GS can't use it.

Don't know anyone else who has it so not really noticed a difference with iMessage. Is it automatic? IE built into the text messaging app just free between iOS 5 devices? I don't think I have a separate app for it.

I didn't realise Siri wouldn't run when I installed it so that was a little disappointing, but looking forward to trying it out at some point.

Performance is fine on 3GS though.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I put it on my 3GS. I don't get any email on iCloud though. Possibly because I don't have a dev account. I also like the notifications.

Reminders are good and work fine over active sync but I can't use location based reminders which sucks balls because thats a cool feature and there is no reason a 3GS can't use it.

Don't know anyone else who has it so not really noticed a difference with iMessage. Is it automatic? IE built into the text messaging app just free between iOS 5 devices? I don't think I have a separate app for it.

I didn't realise Siri wouldn't run when I installed it so that was a little disappointing, but looking forward to trying it out at some point.

Performance is fine on 3GS though.

Go add your me account as an iCloud account under settings-Mail. It'll work. Head over to iCloud.com and log in. Enjoy.

[Eug]

I'm not sure how much I'll use iMessages much at this point. It's basically a "free" version of the MMS that Apple thought was useless so many years ago. I'll be sticking with text messages and regular email for most of my contacts. It's similar to BBM, but the Achilles' heel (like BBM) is that it is device dependent, and so it won't work with most of my friends and family members. Hell, it won't even work with my GF's iPhone. (It's a 3G, but even if she had a 4 it'd be a moot point, since she doesn't have a data plan anyway.)

The other issue is that some of my friends sometimes use both an iPhone and other phones with the same SIM card. I wonder how well it will handle this. (I understand this is uncommon though.) Oh and I've shut off read receipts.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm not sure how much I'll use iMessages much at this point. It's basically a "free" version of the MMS that Apple thought was useless so many years ago. I'll be sticking with text messages and regular email for most of my contacts. It's similar to BBM, but the Achilles' heel (like BBM) is that it is device dependent, and so it won't work with most of my friends and family members. Hell, it won't even work with my GF's iPhone. (It's a 3G, but even if she had a 4 it'd be a moot point, since she doesn't have a data plan anyway.)

The other issue is that some of my friends sometimes use both an iPhone and other phones with the same SIM card. I wonder how well it will handle this. (I understand this is uncommon though.) Oh and I've shut off read receipts.

Wow, you really don't understand iMessage. Everbody seems to be confused about it. There is no separate messaging App, it's just a marketing term. You continue to use the standard text messaging App for all messages. When you send a text to someone who is themself using iOS 5, it'll be free. There's no real extra effort on your part.

It just works. Been using it on my iPod Touch with my girl who has an iPhone 4.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Wow, you really don't understand iMessage. Everbody seems to be confused about it. There is no separate messaging App, it's just a marketing term. You continue to use the standard text messaging App for all messages. When you send a text to someone who is themself using iOS 5, it'll be free. There's no real extra effort on your part.

It just works. Been using it on my iPod Touch with my girl who has an iPhone 4.

Obviously you haven't read my message. Either that or you don't understand how it works.

The problem is that it is device dependent. Yeah it's the same app, but that doesn't solve the problem. Cool pic to send? Oops, you can't send it, because their device doesn't support iMessages. You can't send a iMessage to an iPhone 3G or a Blackberry, so in some ways it's even more crippled than MMS at this time, just like BBM.

So, bottom line, is I CAN'T use it much, because most of the people I message don't even have iPhones, and some that do have iPhones that don't support it.

Even though I use an iPhone and don't have a Blackberry, iMessages currently is not much more useful than BBM, and yet it complexifies things. For example, if you send to a phone number, the iMessage gets sent to that phone. Oops, that person has iMessages configured on the iPad, but won't get the message on the iPad. If that someone sends you an iMessage from their email address, then you get two separate entries in the Messaging app. If you happen to choose the wrong thread, the iPad won't get the message. That's not quite as seamless as Apple might have you believe.

Furthermore, it's most definitely not free. It uses up data. Unless you have an excellent international data roaming plan it wouldn't be a good idea to leave iMessages active when you travel.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Obviously you haven't read my message. Either that or you don't understand how it works.

The problem is that it is device dependent. Yeah it's the same app, but that doesn't solve the problem. Cool pic to send? Oops, you can't send it, because their device doesn't support iMessages. You can't send a iMessage to an iPhone 3G or a Blackberry, so in some ways it's even more crippled than MMS at this time, just like BBM.

So, bottom line, is I CAN'T use it much, because most of the people I message don't even have iPhones, and some that do have iPhones that don't support it.

"Normal carrier data rates may apply. Messages may be sent as SMS when iMessage is unavailable; carrier messaging fees apply."

http://www.apple.com/iphone/built-in-apps/messages.html

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Go add your me account as an iCloud account under settings-Mail. It'll work. Head over to iCloud.com and log in. Enjoy.

I had already done that and it seems that mail is coming in now. Might have to re-add the account since it won't let me send mail with a .mac address listed.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I didn't realise Siri wouldn't run when I installed it so that was a little disappointing, but looking forward to trying it out at some point.

This will be the most disappointing news to the millions of iPhone 4 users who think their phones are fast enough and that the 4S is only a minor improvement. It is almost like Apple made Siri for the 4S only to prove that it is a leap ahead of the 4.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Obviously you haven't read my message. Either that or you don't understand how it works.

The problem is that it is device dependent. Yeah it's the same app, but that doesn't solve the problem. Cool pic to send? Oops, you can't send it, because their device doesn't support iMessages. You can't send a iMessage to an iPhone 3G or a Blackberry, so in some ways it's even more crippled than MMS at this time, just like BBM.

So, bottom line, is I CAN'T use it much, because most of the people I message don't even have iPhones, and some that do have iPhones that don't support it.

Even though I use an iPhone and don't have a Blackberry, iMessages currently is not much more useful than BBM, and yet it complexifies things. For example, if you send to a phone number, the iMessage gets sent to that phone. Oops, that person has iMessages configured on the iPad, but won't get the message on the iPad. If that someone sends you an iMessage from their email address, then you get two separate entries in the Messaging app. If you happen to choose the wrong thread, the iPad won't get the message. That's not quite as seamless as Apple might have you believe.

Furthermore, it's most definitely not free. It uses up data. Unless you have an excellent international data roaming plan it wouldn't be a good idea to leave iMessages active when you travel.

Eug what the hell are you talking about?

There is no "iMessages". What Apple has done is opened up text messaging in a very big way. Texts can now be sent over Wifi, and between all iOS devices. It's an improvement over the previous text App that locked you into paying for your texts/MMS no matter what. There is nothing to complain about.

The text App looks and behaves exactly the same as the iOS 4 version. And by the way, you can't send BBMs over Wifi, just 3G. "iMessage" is awesome.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Eug what the hell are you talking about?

There is no "iMessages". What Apple has done is opened up text messaging in a very big way. Texts can now be sent over Wifi, and between all iOS devices. It's an improvement over the previous text App that locked you into paying for your texts/MMS no matter what. There is nothing to complain about.

The text App looks and behaves exactly the same as the iOS 4 version. And by the way, you can't send BBMs over Wifi, just 3G. "iMessage" is awesome.

Just read the post AGAIN, and maybe you'll understand. Or read my repeat post below.

Then again maybe not. You have a habit of ignoring content if it doesn't happen to agree with your predetermined view of something, right or wrong.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

"Normal carrier data rates may apply. Messages may be sent as SMS when iMessage is unavailable; carrier messaging fees apply."

Apple - iPhone 4S - Send messages, messages, and more messages.

I guess you didn't read my subsequent post either. So, let me spell it out once again.

iMessaging has two (or more) addresses which it uses on the iPhone. The SMS phone number and the email address. These are actually partially independent. If you have a thread based on a recipient's SMS phone number and send an iMessage back in that thread, the recipient's devices which have iMessaging set up only with the email address (iPod touch, iPad) will not get the message. I know this to be true, because I have already tried it.

Now if that person sends you a new iMessage from that iPad, you will get a brand new independent thread in Messages, despite the fact there may already be a thread in Messages from the very same person. When you respond, if you happen to choose the wrong thread, your messages will not go to all devices. If you choose the old thread in which to send the iMessage, only their iPhone will get it, and not their iPad. If you choose the new thread in which to send the iMessage, all the devices will get it including that iPhone.

This isn't the end of the world of course, but like I said it's not necessarily as seamless as it should be. But then again, maybe it's just a bug that will get corrected in the future.

As for my point about not being able to use iMessaging because it's device dependent, that's absolutely true. If you try sending a pic to an iPhone 3G user, you can't because iMessaging isn't active. The pic icon is present, but it's greyed out, because only SMS messages are available. Most of my messaging contacts don't have iPhone 4 series phones, which means I can't use iMessaging with them.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Performance is fine on 3GS though.

[Cold Warrior]

How is performance on the 4S? Same or better than 4.3.x?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Just read the post AGAIN, and maybe you'll understand. Or read my repeat post below.

Then again maybe not. You have a habit of ignoring content if it doesn't happen to agree with your predetermined view of something, right or wrong.



I guess you didn't read my subsequent post either. So, let me spell it out once again.

iMessaging has two (or more) addresses which it uses on the iPhone. The SMS phone number and the email address. These are actually partially independent. If you have a thread based on a recipient's SMS phone number and send an iMessage back in that thread, the recipient's devices which have iMessaging set up only with the email address (iPod touch, iPad) will not get the message. I know this to be true, because I have already tried it.

Now if that person sends you a new iMessage from that iPad, you will get a brand new independent thread in Messages, despite the fact there may already be a thread in Messages from the very same person. When you respond, if you happen to choose the wrong thread, your messages will not go to all devices. If you choose the old thread in which to send the iMessage, only their iPhone will get it, and not their iPad. If you choose the new thread in which to send the iMessage, all the devices will get it including that iPhone.

This isn't the end of the world of course, but like I said it's not necessarily as seamless as it should be. But then again, maybe it's just a bug that will get corrected in the future.

As for my point about not being able to use iMessaging because it's device dependent, that's absolutely true. If you try sending a pic to an iPhone 3G user, you can't because iMessaging isn't active. The pic icon is present, but it's greyed out, because only SMS messages are available. Most of my messaging contacts don't have iPhone 4 series phones, which means I can't use iMessaging with them.

Jesus you're rambling. Thanks for pointing out something I have yet to experience though. I'll look out for this. Please do not derail this thread with any more discourse on this. We get it.

Bottom line: iMessage is an improvement over the regular text message App, and will hurt RIM since it competes with BBM.

Anyway, I just ditched my Gmail account. Screw Google. Hello iCloud. Online iCloud is sick.

You know what Apple needs to do now to seal everything up? Launch its own search engine, push iAds, and integrate Siri. To basically unsuck the Web. I'm tired of ugly Google Ads and 1970s ugly blue hyperlinks and interfaces.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by freudling 

You know what Apple needs to do now to seal everything up? Launch its own search engine...

Not going to happen. Search engines are used to find porn. Apple doesn't like porn.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

How is performance on the 4S? Same or better than 4.3.x?

Uh...

[Cold Warrior]

I meant iOS 5 on the iPhone 4.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

I meant iOS 5 on the iPhone 4.

Runs fine on the 4. I don't have a 3GS to test. I would have loved to test a dumbed down version of iOS 5 on the 3G, but no dice.

Originally Posted by freudling 

We get it.

Yeah, now you do.

[Waragainstsleep]

3GS performance is absolutely fine. The pity is that the only benefits you get on the 3GS are iMessage (which they ought to add to the obsolete phones too really, it would make it better for everyone) and (non-location-based) reminders. They are activesync/exchange compatible though which I suppose is something.
I really can't fathom why the 3GS doesn't support location-based reminders. Seems really stupid/mean.

Siri has been limited to iPhone 4S in order to distinguish it from the 4. I suspect it would run acceptably on the 4.

Apples relationship with porn will be an interesting one to keep an eye on. I've always thought that Apple probably doesn't care about porn. I don't see them embracing it, but I suspect that Steve's close ties to Disney meant that they couldn't be seen to allow it. Remains to be seen if Disney will stay such good friends with Apple or not. If not, porn could make its way to iOS after all.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by SSharon 

Not going to happen. Search engines are used to find porn. Apple doesn't like porn.

All the more reason for them to do it, since they could filter porn, junk, and other stuff, just like they filter Apps on their App Store...

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Siri has been limited to iPhone 4S in order to distinguish it from the 4. I suspect it would run acceptably on the 4.

No way. AI takes a lot of horsepower. I am surprised it even runs on the A5, and the A5 on the 4s allegedly tests twice as powerful as the A4.

In any event, if the 4 has not already been hacked to run Siri it will be soon and someone will report the performance,

-Allen

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by freudling 

All the more reason for them to do it, since they could filter porn, junk, and other stuff, just like they filter Apps on their App Store...

Agreed.

[Waragainstsleep]

I know its being worked on. Are you sure that all AI uses lots of horsepower? I would have guessed that it was just a matter of parsing words and looking them up in a database.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

No way. AI takes a lot of horsepower. I am surprised it even runs on the A5, and the A5 on the 4s allegedly tests twice as powerful as the A4.

In any event, if the 4 has not already been hacked to run Siri it will be soon and someone will report the performance

My guess is it would actually run OK. Not blazing fast, but OK nonetheless.

Remember, Apple has a habit of arbitrarily making things not run on certain hardware, even if it can run it just fine. I'm running 10.5.8 Leopard on my iMac 800 via a hack, and it's fine. It even runs on my G4 450, albeit not so fine.

The worst example of this was Aperture and the last edition iBook. Aperture doesn't run great on G4s, but it had to run on G4s nonetheless because the PowerBooks were also G4s. So, they created an install program that detected which machine you had, and if you had an iBook it wouldn't install, but if you had a PowerBook it would install.

Then Apple updated the iBook, and it met the CPU and GPU criteria needed for Aperture to install. Great, right? Nope, Apple simply changed the install program later prevent installation on that new iBook.

Aperture 1.0 requirements:



Requirement includes a 1.25 GHz G4 and a newer GPU. Then Apple released the iBook 1.33 with Radeon 9550:



With the new iBook, you could install Aperture 1.0, and it would run fine. Then came Aperture 1.0.1, and suddenly that iBook was no longer supported. How lame is that?

[freudling]

Originally Posted by Eug 

My guess is it would actually run OK. Not blazing fast, but OK nonetheless.

Remember, Apple has a habit of arbitrarily making things not run on certain hardware, even if it can run it just fine. I'm running 10.5.8 Leopard on my iMac 800 via a hack, and it's fine. It even runs on my G4 450, albeit not so fine.

The worst example of this was Aperture and the last edition iBook. Aperture doesn't run great on G4s, but it had to run on G4s nonetheless because the PowerBooks were also G4s. So, they created an install program that detected which machine you had, and if you had an iBook it wouldn't install, but if you had a PowerBook it would install.

Then Apple updated the iBook, and it met the CPU and GPU criteria needed for Aperture to install. Great, right? Nope, Apple simply changed the install program later prevent installation on that new iBook.

Aperture 1.0 requirements:



Requirement includes a 1.25 GHz G4 and a newer GPU. Then Apple released the iBook 1.33 with Radeon 9550:



With the new iBook, you could install Aperture 1.0, and it would run fine. Then came Aperture 1.0.1, and suddenly that iBook was no longer supported. How lame is that?

The hackers have a preliminary answer for you:

We didn’t “port” Siri to anything. We investigated it, and verified the claim that it is not able to run on old devices.

Let’s talk Siri: iOS app is a goner, the trouble in Canada, Siri hacked to run on the A4 iOS devices? | 9to5Mac | Apple Intelligence

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

I know its being worked on. Are you sure that all AI uses lots of horsepower? I would have guessed that it was just a matter of parsing words and looking them up in a database.

True AI - which Siri alleges to be - is way complex, much more than just parsing words and looking them up in a database. What amazes me is that it is first presented in a phone. If it really works as demo'd it really will blow us all away.

Star Trek 2011.

-Allen

[Cold Warrior]

It's presented on a phone but executed on apple's servers. Even the dictation is sent to apple and returned as text, according to the video in the link above. Regardless, it looks impressive.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I'm not sure how much I'll use iMessages much at this point. It's basically a "free" version of the MMS that Apple thought was useless so many years ago.

Apple should be rolling iMessages out to iOS4, if they really want it to take off.

[SierraDragon]

Deleted by poster.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

It's presented on a phone but executed on apple's servers. Even the dictation is sent to apple and returned as text, according to the video in the link above. Regardless, it looks impressive.

Then that explains how they can do AI with just an A5 CPU.

-Allen

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

No way. AI takes a lot of horsepower. I am surprised it even runs on the A5, and the A5 on the 4s allegedly tests twice as powerful as the A4.

In any event, if the 4 has not already been hacked to run Siri it will be soon and someone will report the performance,

-Allen

Siri isn't really AI. It's just a natural-language search engine. BIG difference.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior 

It's presented on a phone but executed on apple's servers. Even the dictation is sent to apple and returned as text, according to the video in the link above. Regardless, it looks impressive.

Makes sense. So, Siri won't work without a network connection. Also interesting: if Siri really does need powerful computing (which I'm not so certain about), I wonder if the 4S restriction is actually intended to reduce to strain on Apple's servers. A lot of heavy computing from all the iPhone4's out there could kill it.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

With the new iBook, you could install Aperture 1.0, and it would run fine. Then came Aperture 1.0.1, and suddenly that iBook was no longer supported. How lame is that?

Not that lame. Aperture sucked on the PB G4 anyway so you did not miss much. They probably should have kept it off all the G4 laptops. IIRC I had purchased the extra VRAM which helped a bit, and I do not think the iBooks had that option.

-Allen

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Siri isn't really AI. It's just a natural-language search engine. BIG difference.

Hmm... Yes Siri is a natural language search engine, BIG difference. However it seems to me (we will get a better idea as we see Siri evolve, because initial implementation will be somewhat rudimentary) that it is more than "just" a natural-language search engine.

Natural-language search and AI are poorly defined terms that overlap, so there is not a black/white answer. We will have to revisit the question after we see Siri in operation for a few weeks.

IMO Siri really does qualify as real AI, even if in the beginning stages.

-Allen

[freudling]

Siri is AI. It responds to natural language, carries out tasks, remembers things, and learns.

It'll only get better from here.

Most people don't know this but Apple's been interested in smart knowledge bases and AI for years. Under Sculley, they had a fully working personal assistant that could do a lot of what Siri does... But back in 1993/94. If you dig on youtube you can see it in action.

Apple also sponsored an outfit called CycCorps for several years. A super smart knowledgebase that can be glued onto a search engine to make it smart. Currently there is a paid server install of CycCorps and a free open source version. I believe they started out in the 80s and are still going.

Apple should do search. They should do their own algorithm and filters, interface, backend knowledgebase... The whole thing could be shaped around and for Siri. A new search paradigm. Right now they use things like Yelp, Google, and I heard Wolfram Alpha. All good, but a disjointed patchwork of stuff nonetheless.

I think their own Web index and knowledgebase are key ingredients to pushing Siri to the next level. From what I understand, Siri itself is very capable and scalable. It's the services it draws from that limit it.

[Waragainstsleep]

Google search is very good but its quite resource hungry caching the entire internet. Apple would need several more data centres to do that surely?

[Waragainstsleep]

I still can't send email from my iCloud account. It might be because my AppleID is my .mac address and of course I cannot change this. My primary address on the account is set to me.com but this seems to make no difference. Bit of an oversight from Apple there.

FYI, they aren't enabling [email protected] email addresses.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by SierraDragon 

Not that lame. Aperture sucked on the PB G4 anyway so you did not miss much. They probably should have kept it off all the G4 laptops.

I ran it on that iBook G4. It ran fine. Slow, but fine. Yeah, if they were really concerned about performance, maybe they should have kept it off all G4s, but my point was they made a conscious marketing decision to only include G4 PowerBooks, despite the fact that the fastest iBooks had similar performance to the slowest supported PowerBooks and actually met their own performance criteria tests.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Siri isn't really AI. It's just a natural-language search engine. BIG difference.

Yes, that's an enormous difference.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Siri won't work without a network connection. Also interesting: if Siri really does need powerful computing (which I'm not so certain about), I wonder if the 4S restriction is actually intended to reduce to strain on Apple's servers. A lot of heavy computing from all the iPhone4's out there could kill it.

Interesting point.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Apple should be rolling iMessages out to iOS4, if they really want it to take off.

Nah, it would just mean it would take off quicker. Again, another marketing decision, to encourage iOS 4S sales, but I don't think it will harm the adoption of iMessaging in the long run.

What will harm them more are implementation glitches, some of which I've already pointed out, if they don't address these quickly. Think of 4S users as the beta testers.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Nah, it would just mean it would take off quicker. Again, another marketing decision, to encourage iOS 4S sales, but I don't think it will harm the adoption of iMessaging in the long run.

Every phone from the 3GS up can run iOS 5. Since the only 3 phones offered now are the 3GS(Free) 4($99) and 4S($199+) I don't see a problem.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Siri is AI. It responds to natural language, carries out tasks, remembers things, and learns.

As has been said, "artificial intelligence" is a rather poorly defined term and open to much interpretation.

For me, in order for something to be "artificially intelligent", it has to be able to make decisions on it's own and successfully pass the Turing Test. Carrying out tasks, remembering things, and rudimentary learning are all things that computers have been doing for decades, and aren't anything terribly special. Responding to natural language is a recent evolution of voice recognition, but is really just the voice equivalent of auto-correct and isn't "intelligence".

You can buy into the marketing hype, but until Siri can pass the Turing Test, it isn't truly artificially intelligent, in my opinion.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Every phone from the 3GS up can run iOS 5. Since the only 3 phones offered now are the 3GS(Free) 4($99) and 4S($199+) I don't see a problem.

Well, the only issue is there are still a lot of 3G models out there in use. However, I agree with you. It's not a big problem for iMessaging adoption. If iMessaging is well implemented, it will get traction, since the installed base of capable iPhones is already high. This iOS 5 requirement simply encourages 3G (and 2G) owners to update, and if they update, it may as well be to the 4S when possible, esp. when Siri is only offered on the 4S: Different levels of marketing push. iOS 5 encourages the push to current iPhones, and Siri encourages the push to the 4S.

I wonder what the 5 will offer, but I highly suspect there will be something in the 5 that the 4S doesn't offer, beyond just LTE or a faster CPU/GPU. It will be some other "killer" feature like Siri is advertised to be. I would like to see the iPhone 5 get 1 GB RAM though, like the iPad 3 may get.

[Eug]

Video of Siri working perfectly for users with a variety of accents | TUAW - The Unofficial Apple Weblog

Looks mostly impressive, but for some reason asking Siri to load the Stuff.tv webpage takes you to a Google search of "Stuff.tv".

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

...until Siri can pass the Turing Test, it isn't truly artificially intelligent, in my opinion.

I fully disagree. The 1950's Turing test is a dinosaur, IMO bogus, wanting the AI machine to be undifferentiable from a human - including giving wrong answers. Turing's test was akin to wanting life on other planets to be like us in order to qualify as "life." We are way beyond Turing today.

Note that Spock would fail the Turing Test, but if he was a machine would qualify as AI to me.

Obviously the definition of AI is a challenge. However, this is 2011 and IMO Siri as demo'd qualifies at least as "involving AI technology." After we have all used it for a few months maybe we can cogitate on what Siri and AI mean to us. Certainly if Siri proves no better than Android it is not AI, but I expect us to experience something more.

-Allen

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Makes sense. So, Siri won't work without a network connection. Also interesting: if Siri really does need powerful computing (which I'm not so certain about), I wonder if the 4S restriction is actually intended to reduce to strain on Apple's servers. A lot of heavy computing from all the iPhone4's out there could kill it.

Rumor has had it for some time that the speech recognition in iOS 5 is based on Nuance's Dragon engine.

The speech recognition is local, the LOGIC recognition and content interpretation is net-based.

It's quite possible that they decided Dragon didn't run satisfactorily on anything less than an A5.

[SierraDragon]

That makes sense.

[freudling]

Turing is BS. Siri is AI, full stop.

You know what the real test for intelligence is? All things being equal, burning a building to see who runs out. The iPhone would just sit there.

However, Siri meets the definition of ARTIFICIAL intelligence perfectly. This is just the beginning.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Turing is BS. Siri is AI, full stop.

You know what the real test for intelligence is? All things being equal, burning a building to see who runs out. The iPhone would just sit there.

However, Siri meets the definition of ARTIFICIAL intelligence perfectly. This is just the beginning.

What is the definition of artificial intelligence?

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Rumor has had it for some time that the speech recognition in iOS 5 is based on Nuance's Dragon engine.

The speech recognition is local, the LOGIC recognition and content interpretation is net-based.

It's quite possible that they decided Dragon didn't run satisfactorily on anything less than an A5.

Could be. Though, Siri isn't being made available to the iPad2, yet.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

What is the definition of artificial intelligence?

I lol'd.

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

Could be. Though, Siri isn't being made available to the iPad2, yet.

Indeed. I have iOS 5 on my iPad 2, which is faster than the iPhone 4S and also includes a microphone, but Siri is not included.

I wonder if they will wait until the iPad 3, just because they can get away with it.

[SierraDragon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I have iOS 5 on my iPad 2, which is faster than the iPhone 4S and also includes a microphone, but Siri is not included. I wonder if they will wait until the iPad 3, just because they can get away with it.

Looking at it from an engineer's POV, supporting the concurrent Siri/iP4s/iOS5/iCloud/10.7.2 introductions has to be somewhere between an extreme challenge and a nightmare. IMO closer to the nightmare. Hell, I have not yet even figured out what they all do.

Adding support for another (older) platform to the initial Siri introduction would have been over the top.

-Allen