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BZ · Dec 14, 2005, 05:43 PM

I know they are building it, but what new, fun, cool things are they going to put into it?

What do you want?

BZ

threestain · Dec 14, 2005, 08:29 PM

I want a very speedy browser that doesn't crash nor die a death when looking at loads of pages. Plus one that makes my tea in the morning and cleans my feet.

Just a general update I reckon.

TimmyDee51 · Dec 14, 2005, 09:13 PM

Word on the street is that Omni is working on making it compatible with the latest version of WebCore so that every time WebCore is updated, OmniWeb is, too. The trick is to not loose all of their fancy add-ons, which is apparently what they're doing right now.

If this is indeed true, we'll get the speed of Safari with the control of OmniWeb.

TheIceMan · Dec 15, 2005, 03:28 AM

every time WebCore is updated, OmniWeb is, too

I like that.

BZ · Feb 14, 2006, 12:34 PM

OmniGroup is being too coy about this.

FireFox 2.0 Alpha is coming out any day and Camino 1.0 just came out.

OmniDudes!!! Show us the way!

BZ

JKT · Feb 14, 2006, 01:39 PM

There are no new features planned for 5.5 - it is simply an upgarde to WebKit from Webcore. It is taking time because WebKit wasn't/isn't capable of doing what OmniGroup's modified WebCore does. In case you missed it the last time it was posted, this message was posted by Ken Case on the OmniWeb mailing liston the 8th Jan 2006:

Hi all,

I just wanted to give you all a status update on OmniWeb 5.5.

First, some background: starting with OmniWeb 4.5, we've been using Apple's open source WebCore framework (based on khtml) as our rendering engine. Unfortunately (as you've all seen), WebCore doesn't have a stable API which means that (depending on how much has changed in WebCore) it can take quite a while to integrate new versions of WebCore when they're released.

Fortunately for us the picture changed in a big way last year at WWDC, when Apple opened up the rest of their WebKit source code: WebKit does have stable API, so applications built on top of it can upgrade to newer versions of WebKit without having to rewrite their code with each release. OmniWeb 5.5 will be the first version of OmniWeb to be based on WebKit rather than WebCore, taking advantage of all of the latest performance enhancements in Safari 2 as well as making it easier to stay on top of those changes in the future.

So, where are we now?

At this point, we have OmniWeb 5.5 running on top of a slightly customized WebKit, with our thumbnail tabs (except for a bug with loading frame sets in background tabs), workspaces, bookmarks, custom cookie handling, ad blocking (by ad size, third party sites, or regular expression), some of our site preferences (font style, inline images, JavaScript and Java and cookie controls, and the browser identification/masquerade setting), our source code editor, downloads, and our context menus.

We're still missing some of our mouse and keyboard interactions (you can't option-drag a link to drag out a window, click-hold a link to get a context menu, or click on a blocked ad to load it), zoomed editing, some site preferences (including animation controls), page info, activity monitor, authentication in the source view, password autofill, autocomplete, the ability to show HTTP requests, save as (single page) PDF, and probably some other things I'm forgetting.

In other words, we've made quite a bit of progress on quite a few of the major features of OmniWeb, but there's still a lot of work to do before 5.5 really feels like an upgrade to 5.1. (I've been trying to use 5.5 as my primary browser lately, but whenever I move from basic browsing to doing any sort of web work I end up switching back to 5.1. Fortunately, with persistent workspaces already implemented I'm able to switch back and forth without losing all my context.)

It's a bit early to say exactly when OmniWeb 5.5 will enter public beta, but we'll try to provide more frequent status updates as we get closer. Stay tuned!

Cheers,
Ken

acollins · Feb 14, 2006, 09:05 PM

What are the odds that OW 5.5 will abandon the drawer implementation for tabs in favor of a pane like Mail.app, Journler, iTunes, etc.?

JKT · Feb 15, 2006, 05:03 AM

Hopefully none. A pane sucks as SafariStand demonstrates.

threestain · Feb 15, 2006, 08:41 AM

just want it to emerge soon...

acollins · Feb 15, 2006, 09:31 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

Hopefully none. A pane sucks as SafariStand demonstrates.

I've never used SafariStand, but I don't think that one example of an implementation that didn't work forecloses the possibility that the OmniGroup could implement the same idea in a way that works well. Are there specific aspects of the SafariStand implementation that you think don't work?

JKT · Feb 15, 2006, 12:06 PM

It isn't the implementation - the flaws would be the same if OmniGroup did it with OW. It is simply far too cramped. Due to my toolbar, I'd lose at least a full tab from view if it was a pane. It would also make it more difficult to drag and drop things to the desktop or bring windows behind to the front as there would be no gaps top and bottom (and fwiw, I do use Exposé 99% of the time but there are occasions when I don't). I would also lose the ability to make my window go fullscreen just by hiding the drawer.

SafariStand is free so you may as well download it and try it out. It makes using Safari a lot more bearable and tries to implement most of OmniWeb's features in Safari. Not a bad effort but still a long way short of OW, though.

BZ · Feb 15, 2006, 01:12 PM

Well, if all that is in 5.5 is the webkit, OmniWeb is going to start to die a slow death.

The other browsers are just flying forward with speed and features while OmniWeb hangs behind, resting on some of them.

BZ

Thinine · Feb 15, 2006, 02:15 PM

Moving to a newer WebKit is "flying forward with speed and features."

OAW · Feb 15, 2006, 02:21 PM

It doesn't seem to me that OmniWeb is lacking in features. In fact, it is one of the most full-featured browsers available for OS X. The problem with OmniWeb is speed and rendering accuracy. Moving to the new WebKit will take care of that. Once that happens, OmniWeb will essentially be "Safari on steroids" ... much like Shiira is. At that point, it will come down to whether or not you like OmniWeb's tab implementation. And if you want to pay for it's feature set.

OAW

TimmyDee51 · Feb 15, 2006, 02:51 PM

OmniWeb will essentially be "Safari on steroids"

Well said. For me, OW has already been worth the money, so this will be icing on the cake.

BZ · Feb 16, 2006, 12:27 PM

I think OmniWeb needs more than a few 2004 features to stand out and get people to buy it again (sales must be slipping). I say this as a long time owner and user of OmniWeb.

- Speed: It has to be AT LEAST as fast as Safari. At least.
- Better RSS. Something along the lines of Safari, although if they figured out a way to do a better "portal" type RSS feed look, that would be great (see http://www.netvibes.com).
- More bookmark features. Check for duplicates etc.
- More integration of features found in FireFox Extensions (auto-update, html code, more status reports).

Again, OmniWeb kicked ass last year, but people are catching up in all of their features.

BZ

plastiqueusa · Feb 16, 2006, 01:01 PM

It would be nice to see some sort of Firefox plug-in compatibility, if possible, or at least the ability to point to online blacklists/whitelists for ad-blocking (a la Filterset.G updater).

NeXTLoop · Feb 16, 2006, 01:53 PM

BZ hit the nail on the head. I've been a registered user of OmniWeb for years. I even have it installed right now. But it's increasingly painful to use due to its slowness. And given how much other browsers have caught up with it in terms of features, there's less and less motivation to use it at all.

Originally Posted by BZ

I think OmniWeb needs more than a few 2004 features to stand out and get people to buy it again (sales must be slipping). I say this as a long time owner and user of OmniWeb.

- Speed: It has to be AT LEAST as fast as Safari. At least.
- Better RSS. Something along the lines of Safari, although if they figured out a way to do a better "portal" type RSS feed look, that would be great (see http://www.netvibes.com).
- More bookmark features. Check for duplicates etc.
- More integration of features found in FireFox Extensions (auto-update, html code, more status reports).

Again, OmniWeb kicked ass last year, but people are catching up in all of their features.

BZ

BZ · Feb 16, 2006, 01:58 PM

I have asked about the FireFox pluggins and that is not possible as they are a different code base.

OmniWeb could point to an online list though.

BZ

JKT · Feb 16, 2006, 02:26 PM

OK, let's turn this thread into a what we would like to see in OmniWeb 6 to keep it ahead of the pack - in addition to the above:

1. A really good archiving feature.
2. Improved Workspace interface and management.
3. The ability to export/e-mail Workspaces for use by non-OW users (e.g. as a bookmark file or list of URLs).
4. A really good printing toolset so that you could choose what you want to print and rearrange things on the page in a preview to make sure everything prints OK.
5. An equivalent of the FireFox Web Developer extension built-in (this should probably happen with the switch to WebKit as it is already being added).
6. Nested tabs? Maybe if it worked. It seems like a good idea until you look at how much space it might require (see how iRider does it).
7. The "pinned" tabs is a nice feature from iRider too - I'd like the equivalent in OmniWeb.
8. While hovering the mouse over the tab, why not show a mid-sized preview of the page as well as its title?
9. The ability to export and share your blocked ads list.
10. Clean and colour coded formatting of CSS and Javascript as well as the HTML when using the reformat command in Source view.
11. A send page function like Safari's Mail contents of this page feature.

I'm sure there's more stuff I'd like to see, but can't recall it all at the moment...

:dragonflypro: · Feb 16, 2006, 04:07 PM

As the sole browser for X that I have to (and have) paid for, I am increasingly irritated that it has not been updated.

Shiira has come from the ground up since OW 5.1 was released. Granted it may not be as involved as OW, but seriously…

It's said, because OW is the UI/Feature king. It is neglected… as are it's customers.

T

JKT · Feb 16, 2006, 07:45 PM

12. An equivalent to the private browsing feature of Safari.
13. The ability to be prompted for all cookies to be put back in as a preference...
14. An Autofill routine that actually works would also be nice.

Macanoid · Feb 20, 2006, 07:41 AM

I don't really miss any features in OW, it's powerful enough as it is, plus it has an excellent interface (love the thumbnail tabs!!) All I want is speed, nothing more. Hope they release the 5.5 soon. Even a public beta would be nice

Targon · Feb 20, 2006, 08:11 AM

Why don't Omni just grab the Shiira source and continue developing that? Its already significantly more responsive than Safari, has more features and functions than Safari and has a far better Tabbed interface (for PowerBook users) than OW. Shiira is very stable 1.2.2

All Omni have to do is add their Add blocking, site preferences and JavaScript options, the rest is pretty much ready to roll. Added Bonus Shiira allows us to select a custom style sheet..something Omni have never bothered with providing.

juanvaldes · Feb 20, 2006, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by acollins

What are the odds that OW 5.5 will abandon the drawer implementation for tabs in favor of a pane like Mail.app, Journler, iTunes, etc.?

I have it on good authority this has not changed.

Macanoid · Feb 20, 2006, 08:28 AM

what about a release date then - more news on that by any chance?

juanvaldes · Feb 20, 2006, 08:29 AM

only the gods know that.

Macanoid · Feb 20, 2006, 08:31 AM

- shame I don't believe in gods......

His Dudeness · Feb 20, 2006, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

OK, let's turn this thread into a what we would like to see in OmniWeb 6 to keep it ahead of the pack - in addition to the above:

1. A really good archiving feature.
2. Improved Workspace interface and management.
3. The ability to export/e-mail Workspaces for use by non-OW users (e.g. as a bookmark file or list of URLs).
4. A really good printing toolset so that you could choose what you want to print and rearrange things on the page in a preview to make sure everything prints OK.
5. An equivalent of the FireFox Web Developer extension built-in (this should probably happen with the switch to WebKit as it is already being added).
6. Nested tabs? Maybe if it worked. It seems like a good idea until you look at how much space it might require (see how iRider does it).
7. The "pinned" tabs is a nice feature from iRider too - I'd like the equivalent in OmniWeb.
8. While hovering the mouse over the tab, why not show a mid-sized preview of the page as well as its title?
9. The ability to export and share your blocked ads list.
10. Clean and colour coded formatting of CSS and Javascript as well as the HTML when using the reformat command in Source view.
11. A send page function like Safari's Mail contents of this page feature.

I'm sure there's more stuff I'd like to see, but can't recall it all at the moment...

12. Scratch'n'sniff capability.

BZ · Feb 23, 2006, 04:52 PM

Can't we get someone from OmniGroup to step up and say something?

They used to be so chatty.

BZ

JuxtaPosition · Feb 23, 2006, 07:25 PM

Code now, chat later.

code
code
code
code
code
code
code

BZ · Feb 24, 2006, 04:01 PM

I know it is crazy to have a company with coders AND marketing people.

BZ

BZ · Mar 9, 2006, 05:54 PM

Bump for no luv from OmniGroup.

BZ

Macanoid · Mar 10, 2006, 04:47 AM

I wish there was some update news as well - just a hint will do

Cadaver · Mar 10, 2006, 10:51 PM

Vaporware?

Krypton · Mar 11, 2006, 06:34 AM

Originally Posted by Cadaver

Vaporware?

It is being worked on, but unfortunately it is securing the level of man power that befits their least profitable product.

threestain · Mar 12, 2006, 07:57 PM

5.1.3 is out now...

Macanoid · Mar 13, 2006, 03:34 AM

5.1.3 is nice, but the reason we're talking about 5.5 is that it will have a new a much faster engine so it'll load the pages much much faster. Speed is the only thing OW5 lacks unfortunately - in every other respect it's way ahead of other browsers......

BZ · Mar 14, 2006, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by Krypton

It is being worked on, but unfortunately it is securing the level of man power that befits their least profitable product.

I think one of the reasons it is their least profitable product is because the release schedule and enhancements have lagged behind all the other products.

BZ

threestain · Mar 14, 2006, 08:21 AM

frankly, I'd buy ow if it became a lot quicker. and I love safari.

Amorya · Mar 14, 2006, 11:03 AM

I have bought OW. But I'm using Safari now, because OW's rendering engine is a little too old, and the aformentioned speed issues. 5.5 should fix both... bring it on!

Amorya

Cadaver · Mar 15, 2006, 12:37 AM

I bought a license for OW a long time ago myself. The feature set of OW can't be beat, but its way, way too slow and crash-prone for use.

JKT · Mar 15, 2006, 09:03 AM

Surprised no one has posted this yet, but Ken Case has notified the OmniWeb mailing list that OmniWeb 5.5 is (as of Friday just gone) in private beta testing.

Macanoid · Mar 15, 2006, 09:12 AM

where can I sign up for this??? If at all possible of course. Would love to try test it!!!

JKT · Mar 15, 2006, 11:35 AM

I suspect that their list of private beta users is full already (as it is limited) but the fairly big hint as to where you can find out more was in my last post...

Macanoid · Apr 4, 2006, 11:22 AM

Just found this info on 5.5: OW build info

King Bob On The Cob · Apr 4, 2006, 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by Macanoid

Just found this info on 5.5: OW build info

I spent all day trying to guess where the file itself would be, but I couldn't get it... Damn, I guess I'm just going to have to wait like everyone else.

juanvaldes · Apr 4, 2006, 11:53 PM

....

Macanoid · Apr 5, 2006, 03:53 AM

Coudn't find it either - would love to try it!

TheIceMan · Apr 5, 2006, 04:12 AM

Yeah same here. Come on Omni guys, we wanna give OW 5.5 a spin. We promise to be law-abiding beta testers.