[fobside]

link

so basically theyre creating a cd that doesnt work...great.

[nonhuman]

Next thing you know, CDs will come with EULAs and you won't even be allowed to complain that they don't work with any of your cd-playing devices.

[grand illusion]

why don't the music companys just lower the prices of their cd's...how many of you would be willing to pay, oh say $5 a pop for an original cd?

[chris v]

Here it is, plain and simple. Are you listening, record labels?

If it's copy-protected, I'm not buyin' it!

You think they saw sales slump last year?

I think a lot of people feel the same way.

CV

[Adam Silver]

Yeah, the $12 to $18 I spend on a CD is killing me financially.

[Beewee]

Hopefully these things aren't as "copy-proof" as possible. and some guy will either make a program that can rip the music off or a burner that does the same.


"Don't steal music "

[cdhostage]

I do not steal music, dammit! I do not desrve this crap! I have bought several hundred CDs and ripped them all to MP3 and use my iMac as my advanced music station. Soon I will get an iPod and use that as mymobile music base. Grr. Are you kidding me? No music on Macs, let alone ripping them!?! I am a loyal customer.

I agree. Let us boycott all copyright-protected CDs.

[starfleetX]

Originally posted by Beewee:
<STRONG>Hopefully these things aren't as "copy-proof" as possible. and some guy will either make a program that can rip the music off or a burner that does the same.</STRONG>

Not likely. If I understand this "method" correctly, the computer's CD-ROM would simply choke on the disk, not playing it at all because of the errors.

However, you could play the CD on a stereo, use a cable from the sound-out of the stereo to sound-in on your Mac/PC, record to an AIFF/WAV, and then convert that to an MP3. It's certainly not convenient, but it should work.

[kman42]

I can't say that I have never pirated an MP3 to see if I like the music, but I always buy the disc if I do even if I only like a couple of the songs. It's only fair to the artist. But if record companies start copy-protecting music so that I can't even rip them or play them on my mac, then to hell with them. I will pirate all music that cannot be played or ripped on my mac.

This is of course assuming that someone will find a way to rip it. I'm optimistic of this as there are a lot more people trying to rip music than copy protect it. However, the music industry has more money than god and I'm sure they will eventually come up with a scheme that is unbreakable (new CD players, perhaps?). Therefore, it is imperative that they feel the pain long before they get to that point.

kman

[Adam Silver]

It's called DVD Audio. It'll be years (if ever) before it catches on.

DVD Audio was delayed thanks to the person who found the hole in DVD Video encryption. It's been around for a while now, but I have only seen one DVD Audio disc, it was Blue Man Group's music.

[Euphrates]

I don't see how this is justified by the record labels. Just because they claim they will accept refunds doesn't mean that they can go around selling overpriced CD's that probably work on my old stereo or my computer, not to mention the iPod I am considering. The militant tactics of the record companies are not working, and I feel that the only thing we can do is to refuse those CD's. Hopefully they will choose sucky music to sacrifice to the record company's cause.

(they better not touch my Radiohead )

[jamesa]

I will boycott these CDs. There's a feedback page - for gods sake, go send them some feedback!
http://www.universalstudios.com/home...gi?email_id=14

I think it will actually increase piracy - people who normally would buy CDs to use on their PCs will be forced to get it off the web, ripped by people with advanced audio equipment that can take an optical out of the CD player and rip it onto the computer using USB. Slow (takes as long as the CD), but they'll get out.

But, FFS, please go feedback to Universal!

-- james

[scaught]

while this wont affect me at all (i wont be purchasing the movie soundtrack to "the fast and the furious" or pretty much any other major label crap release anytime soon), im SURE that we'll see a rather large stink raised about this decision not only from consumers (who might as well be yelling at a wall), but big companies that manufacture MP3 playing devices such as RIO, iomega, apple, etc. if you cant rip this CD, you cant use the device, the device will be worthless. im sure litigations towards this end are already under way.

[FERRO]

This wont matter...

You can always copy it the old fashioned way, just get a cord from an out port to an in port and record... to what ever device... if its a computer you can chop it up anyway you want... using some simple software... this wont stop anyone... I dont steal music... I hardly ever buy new music, but this crap is starting to change my mind... I would suggest we all do it now just to spite these capitalist totalitarians... besides I recently heard of a small hand held sized device that turns any source of audio into high quality mp3 anyway...

this doesnt copy-protect anything...

And I second that boycott...

E PLURIBUS UNIX
-----------------------------

[nonhuman]

I just sent a nice long letter to Universal decrying this "copy protection" system and listing out and explaining all the reasons that I think it is a bad idea and why it won't work. I also told them that as long as this system is in the works I will not be buying cds from them and will encourage everyone else to do the same. So consider this my encouragement to you to not buy any cds from Universal until this lunacy is put to an end.

[scaught]

this in my eyes is a copyright violation.

in purchasing a copy of a piece of music, im granted certain rights. among them, to make copies for personal use. i can copy a CD or a record to a cassette tape. i can copy that CD to an MP3 player. this protected CD infringes not only on my rights to do this, but also the companies who make MP3 players. in my understanding, all companys who make MP3 players, recordable media, etc, pay a certain percentage fee to some sort of "record industry fund" to accomodate for people using the device within those guidelines (per the audio home recording act of 79 (i think?)).

[Euphrates]

Good for you nonhuman, tell us when (if) you get a reply.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by jamesa:
<STRONG>I will boycott these CDs. There's a feedback page - for gods sake, go send them some feedback!
[URL=http://www.universalstudios.com/homepage/html/contact_us/contact_form.cgi?email_id=14]http://www.universalstudios.com/homepage/html/contact_us/contact_form.cgi?email_id=14[/UR L]

I think it will actually increase piracy - people who normally would buy CDs to use on their PCs will be forced to get it off the web, ripped by people with advanced audio equipment that can take an optical out of the CD player and rip it onto the computer using USB. Slow (takes as long as the CD), but they'll get out.

But, FFS, please go feedback to Universal!


-- james</STRONG>

Thanks for the link, James! I just sent them a note expressing my outrage. I will stop buying any Universal products as well!

[GK]

in purchasing a copy of a piece of music, im granted certain rights. among them, to make copies for personal use.

How much longer though ?


A CALL TO END COPYRIGHT CONFUSION
Jack Valenti of the Motion Picture Association of America warned
technology firms that if they do not encrypt their digital
content to ensure copy protection, then the federal government
will institute its own standards. Congress may be preparing to
pass the Security Systems Standards and Certification Act (SSSCA)
proposed by Sen. Fritz Hollings (D-S.C.) as early as next year.
The SSSCA requires digital rights management to be incorporated
in any "interactive digital device" and prohibits the creation,
sale, or distribution of any such device that lacks "certified
security technologies" authorized by the Commerce Department.
Free speech proponents such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation
are opposed to the bill, which they claim will choke technology
and act against fair-use rights. However, the Commerce
Department's Bruce Mehlman believes that a government-instituted
digital rights management standard would offer more fair-use
rights than a standard created by the private sector.
(Wired News, 18 December 2001)

[nonhuman]

Originally posted by GK:
<STRONG>However, the Commerce
Department's Bruce Mehlman believes that a government-instituted
digital rights management standard would offer more fair-use
rights than a standard created by the private sector.
(Wired News, 18 December 2001)</STRONG>

Eh? How can government imposed legislature offer more freedoms than standards created in the private sector?

[jamesa]

Originally posted by nonhuman:
<STRONG>

Eh? How can government imposed legislature offer more freedoms than standards created in the private sector? </STRONG>

because, quite simply, the Govt will allow some "fair use" while the record companies will go hell for leather to prevent it.

I urge you all again - if you haven't sent feedback to the above link, please, do it.

If these assholes (and I don't use that term lightly, either) don't decide to allow CDs to be played in CD-Roms, there's an expensive way around this.

Beat these assholes

No matter how advanced they get, we can always beat them. That little wonder above will take optical out of a CD player (you need a good CD player with an optical out in the first place, like how you connect and record MD recorders) and then will go USB in to your Mac. Perfect copy - it'll just take as long as the record (no more 5x ripping).

I've not just bought an iPod to have these assholes stop me from using it.

-- james

[nonhuman]

Ok, I finally got a reply to my letter to Universal. Here it is:

Thank you for your feedback regarding copy protected CDs. We
appreciate your opinion, as the consumer experience with the music we all
love has always been a priority at the Universal Music Group.

Unfortunately, over the last few years, the music industry has been faced
with a growing problem of unauthorized CD "ripping" leading to illegal
Internet distribution of music - a practice that is hurting everyone from
recording artists to songwriters to record stores. This illegal copying is
taking place on a massive scale, with literally millions of copies being
made without any compensation to the creators of the music. If a way is
not found to protect the music from these abuses, recording artists,
songwriters and many others will be deprived of their livelihoods. The
changing economics could cause fewer new artists to get a chance to find
their audience.

Universal Music Group is committed to protecting the rights of our artists,
songwriters, and copyright holders, and, like the rest of the entertainment
industry, is evaluating emerging technologies to assess their viability while
also attempting to maximize the consumer experience. In addition,
Universal is exploring new ways to make music available in a variety of
online formats. We are also working with technology companies on new
offline formats that appeal to consumers.

We have licensed copy protection technologies developed by others and
are experimenting with the integration of those technologies into some of
our CDs as a first step in measuring their effectiveness in an evolving
marketplace. While the CDs with copy protection may not be playable in a
limited number of CD players, UMG is currently working with our
technology providers to achieve 100% playability. We also hope to
include Macintosh-based playability on copy-protected discs in the future.
We have not finalized our plans for 2002 nor have we made a commitment
to put copy protection on all of our CD releases.

UMG has also established www.musichelponline.com to provide
consumers with support and to answer any questions you may have
concerning copy protected CDs.

We appreciate your business, and your support for the musicians who
bring so much to all of our lives.

Apparently they're all about protecting the rights of the artists...

[osiris]

I just received an email from Universal's "MusicHelpOnline Support" - and well, basically it's a "too damn bad" letter, though tastefully worded, of course. I won't be so tasteful here.

Let's see - I buy a new CD - I can only play it on new devices and definately not my Mac - I can't transfer tunes to my iPod... the very basis of human trust between the consumer and the corporation collapses to oblivion.

My 18.99 CD for a .24 cents worth of plastic (plus a much earned cut to the artist of course - heck, make it $5.00 per artist - that leaves 13.99 for marketing, advertising, packaging and all the corporate bullcrap that adds up to $18.99)

Not anymore.

This is war people. steal music now. steal their movies too. they think we are all theives, so behave like one.

[fobside]

Originally posted by osiris:
<STRONG>This is war people. steal music now. steal their movies too. they think we are all theives, so behave like one.</STRONG>

haha, you heard the general. i dont think this will result in anymore stealing of music. people hate the idea but i bet most people will cave in and purchase the cd. i dont think people are willing to deal without music they like.

mac users are a unique group though. i think the music industry think 5%...who cares? but i agree that its stupid what theyve done. theyve broken the chain in terms of digital media. its all stuck on CDs now.

[kidtexas]

Nonhuman, I got that same reply today in the mail too. Took them long enough to get back to me...

Side note: DVD Audio - might catch on - equally "promising" is Sony's Super Audio CD format - as of now, both have about the same amount of support - I think SACD might be a little better quality (as well as being backwords compatible to a certain extent with CD players), but DVD Audio has been out a little longer and has a few more releases.

Anyway, as many of you have stated, I don't steal music - I have downloaded some mp3's (mainly some live songs and a couple of other songs too see if I liked an album), but the majority of my collection is the 5-600 CD's I have. I have no problem buying music, even paying $18/CD (despite the GIANT markups).

The problem is that even if you do (and I will...) buy these protected CD's, they WON'T play in your Mac, they may not even play in your CD player. Thats an issue. By "protecting" their product, they are harming it. That is what makes me angry - these CD's aren't just going to be copy-proof CD's; the copy protection interferes with some players playing them at all.

Hopefully everybody on this board will send feedback to the above link, and get others to do the same.

[osiris]

Originally posted by fobside:
<STRONG>

haha, you heard the general. i dont think this will result in anymore stealing of music. people hate the idea but i bet most people will cave in and purchase the cd. i dont think people are willing to deal without music they like.

mac users are a unique group though. i think the music industry think 5%...who cares? but i agree that its stupid what theyve done. theyve broken the chain in terms of digital media. its all stuck on CDs now.</STRONG>

You are incorrect sir - people will steal, especially me - an idiot who all these years actually bought CDs and protested AGAINST Napster.

[nonhuman]

The only problem with this boycott for me is that the cds that I would buy are such that MP3s aren't really good enough. The format just doesn't do justice to the likes of Bach, Mussorsky, Paganini, etc. For other stuff that I would buy (jazz and classic rock mostly) I prefer original recordings on vinyl. Are they doing this same crap with DVD-A and SACD? Or is it just your run of the mill cds?

[mrfrost]

I only "steal" cd's that I do not plan on buying anyway.

[driven]

Originally posted by kman42:
<STRONG>I can't say that I have never pirated an MP3 to see if I like the music, but I always buy the disc if I do even if I only like a couple of the songs. It's only fair to the artist. But if record companies start copy-protecting music so that I can't even rip them or play them on my mac, then to hell with them. I will pirate all music that cannot be played or ripped on my mac.

This is of course assuming that someone will find a way to rip it. I'm optimistic of this as there are a lot more people trying to rip music than copy protect it. However, the music industry has more money than god and I'm sure they will eventually come up with a scheme that is unbreakable (new CD players, perhaps?). Therefore, it is imperative that they feel the pain long before they get to that point.

kman</STRONG>

Here here ... I think you will find many folks who agree with you.

[driven]

Originally posted by scaught:
<STRONG>this in my eyes is a copyright violation.

in purchasing a copy of a piece of music, im granted certain rights. among them, to make copies for personal use. i can copy a CD or a record to a cassette tape. i can copy that CD to an MP3 player. this protected CD infringes not only on my rights to do this, but also the companies who make MP3 players. in my understanding, all companys who make MP3 players, recordable media, etc, pay a certain percentage fee to some sort of "record industry fund" to accomodate for people using the device within those guidelines (per the audio home recording act of 79 (i think?)).</STRONG>

Actually there is already a congressman starting to make some noise about this.

I suggest that you write YOUR congressman and get his or her panties in a wad about it too.