[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

No one is trouncing on it. I think SS is a great solution too! It's nice to have A CHOICE.
Again, my only complaint was the FUD that was being spread about switching themes using an installer or manually installing it.

And that is what it is FUD.

So why are you coming down on this thread like a ton of bricks? Mind you, you've done that in a quite number of them.

[Randman]

And now, we are reminded again of how Zimp has almost 30,000 posts here.

[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

And I will say it again.

SS is safer than manually installing themes or using an installer the same way wearing a helmet to use the bathroom is safer than not wearing one.

It's a hell of a lot easier.

Look, smeger has done an amazing job in creating the apps he has. I've seen nothing from him that tells me he disparages other methods to the point they are deemed utterly unusable.

What I have seen, is marketing his product in all fairness and to highlight he benefits they bring over older methods. That's how it works, Zim. It's not FUD.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

So why are you coming down on this thread like a ton of bricks? Mind you, you've done that in a quite number of them.

version, read what I have said. I have said many times I have no problems with haxies themselves. Just the FUD that is being spread by those who make them.

And is that wrong? To dismiss FUD and not leave people in the dark?

You know how many people that have messaged me in the past month asking how I themed Tiger without Shape Shifter?

How they was told they would RUIN their computer if they tried?

It's gotten absurd.

Originally Posted by version

It's a hell of a lot easier.

Easier than what? I ran the smooth-stripes installer. It took a minute tops.
I had my theme installed.
Now, if you are talking MANUALLY then yes, it is quicker.

Look, smeger has done an amazing job in creating the apps he has. I've seen nothing from him that tells me he disparages other methods to the point they are deemed utterly unusable.

smeger has on many occasion including this thread try to scare people into believing manually installing themes was evil and could hose your system.

Tell me version. Where do you think these people hear this from?

What I have seen, is marketing his product in all fairness and to highlight he benefits they bring over older methods. That's how it works, Zim. It's not FUD.

Fairness? Scaring people and exaggerating if fair?

Ok. If you say so.

I know a handful of people that are a lot happier with their system since I've told them that it was FUD.

They tried it themselves, got back on AIM surprised their system booted up.

Thought they were great hackers because they accomplished such hackery that was told with screw up their system.

Heck version, I have many times HOT SWAPPED my extras file in the middle of using my OS with NO PROBLEMS.

And I am hardly a "l33t" user.

[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

version, read what I have said. I have said many times I have no problems with haxies themselves. Just the FUD that is being spread by those who make them.

And is that wrong? To dismiss FUD and not leave people in the dark?

You know how many people that have messaged me in the past month asking how I themed Tiger without Shape Shifter?

How they was told they would RUIN their computer if they tried?

It's gotten absurd.

Zim - I haven't seen anyone say here that it would ruin your computer, and I mean in this thread. It is perfectly honest and reasonable to say it is easier. If something can be done in x amount steps less than another method, then the chances of something going wrong become less.

I do think you're over-reacting to things, and looking for things to back up your current thoughts on changing themes.

Easier than what? I ran the smooth-stripes installer. It took a minute tops.
I had my theme installed.
Now, if you are talking MANUALLY then yes, it is quicker.

smeger has on many occasion including this thread try to scare people into believing manually installing themes was evil and could hose your system.

Tell me version. Where do you think these people hear this from?

Fairness? Scaring people and exaggerating if fair?

Ok. If you say so.

I haven't seen many themes with an installer. The ones I come across, which aren't guikits, involve firing up Terminal and copying System files.

smeger is selling a product, it is obvious what advantages it brings to the table. I don't see him scaring people, but making them aware. There's nothing wrong in that.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

Zim - I haven't seen anyone say here that it would ruin your computer, and I mean in this thread.

Really?

Originally Posted by smeger

This is demonstrably not the case. I'm not aware of a single occurence in which installing ShapeShifter has necessitated reinstallation of the operating system. I'm aware of uncountable occurrences in which using ThemeChanger, Duality, or Installer packages resulted in hosed operating systems. Theme creators spent more time answering support emails than they did making themes.

I mean, think about it! If someone who doesn't know the innards of the operating system replaces an obscure file needed to boot the OS with one from a different version of the OS and then reboots, he's screwed. If the method he used to replace it didn't keep a backup, he can't even use single-user-mode to fix it. These aren't academic test cases - this is what used to happen, regularly.

Whereas if ShapeShifter were to somehow get completely screwed, you just hold the shift key down as you boot to disable APE and then turn it off, and you're golden.

These are quite clearly different levels of danger.

Again, you know how to do it manually, I'm not in any way disputing that. But claiming that the two methods are equally dangerous to the general public is completely incorrect, pure and simple.

It is perfectly honest and reasonable to say it is easier. If something can be done in x amount steps less than another method, then the chances of something going wrong become less.

Like I said, I used an installer. Not SS. How is that less safe?

I do think you're over-reacting to things, and looking for things to back up your current thoughts on changing themes.

Please do. Notice most of the people that have had to reinstall, had to because of user error. And even then, they didn't HAVE to install.

I haven't seen many themes with an installer. The ones I come across, which aren't guikits, involve firing up Terminal and copying System files.

Check out Max's smooth stripes installer. It's an Apple installer. Works just like one .

smeger is selling a product, it is obvious what advantages it brings to the table. I don't see him scaring people, but making them aware. There's nothing wrong in that.

You make people aware and tell them the facts. You don't exaggerate and promote FUD to try to sell your product.

And yes, there are (and were) people using SS because they thought it was the ONLY safe way to theme. That the other ways would screw up their system.

And they thought that lie because they had been told that lie.

Me trying to put that lie to rest isn't doing anything wrong. It's just dispelling the FUD.

Buy SS and haxies because you don't want to do it yourself. Buy it because it's a great app. Buy it because you change themes a lot.

But don't buy it because you think any other way will ruin your system, and MAKE you have to reinstall.

That is indeed FUD.

[Zimphire]

BTW smeger check out this

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...r+hosed+system

Originally Posted by aManDrinksMilk

Well I was using Shapeshifter, changing from theme to theme. I had just installed the Quake theme.. But then i decided to install the Blue Metal theme. I restart my computer. My finder is down. No desktop icons no search, nothing. My finder just doesn't work anymore... It very weird that now when i start my computer i have a Quake loading screen a Blue metal Log in screen, a Blue metal Finder that I see if i click finder in the dock fast enough, and all the applications that work (almost everything, safari msn messger iTunes etc etc etc) have a Shinabi skin. Now what happened???

I guess he has to reinstall eh?

Not that it was SS fault. But hey, I am just being honest.

[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Really?

He isn't saying it will screw it, but it can without due diligence, more than one needs when using Shapeshifter.

Like I said, I used an installer. Not SS. How is that less safe?

Please do. Notice most of the people that have had to reinstall, had to because of user error. And even then, they didn't HAVE to install.

Check out Max's smooth stripes installer. It's an Apple installer. Works just like one .

Ok, cheers.

You make people aware and tell them the facts. You don't exaggerate and promote FUD to try to sell your product.

And yes, there are (and were) people using SS because they thought it was the ONLY safe way to theme. That the other ways would screw up their system.

That is indeed FUD.

He isn't lying, he just isn't. That's how I see it. He's also promoting a product he sells, and one which lives up to the claim it makes. If he thinks it's a better, and a safer solution - and lots of us do, too - then why would you expect him to talk up the hand hacking method?

I mean, I don't see many people here having a go at Apple for claiming they have the world's fastest computer, or OS.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

He isn't saying it will screw it, but it can without due diligence, more than one needs when using Shapeshifter.

Oh please version, he was exaggerating. using FUD.

"Fear Uncertainty and Doubt"

that is exactly what he is doing.

He isn't lying, he just isn't.

Well if he actually believes it, then I don't know what to say. Before recently it took him awhile to admit that it was just the OLD extras.rsrc that was causing people to "have" to reinstall their OS. Before he was just saying it was happening randomly.

That's how I see it. He's also promoting a product he sells, and one which lives up to the claim it makes. If he thinks it's a better, and a safer solution - and lots of us do, too - then why would you expect him to talk up the hand hacking method?

It's one thing to think it, and another to repeat it, esp when the facts say otherwise.

I mean, I don't see many people here having a go at Apple for claiming they have the world's fastest computer, or OS.

You haven't seen the threads in here about it then.

Or other places.

Apple lost a lot of credibility in the claim department because of that.

But anyhow, I just showed how SS screwed up someone's computer.

Something that I was told couldn't happen.

I guess I should start spreading my own FUD about the horrors of Shapeshifter not letting you access your Finder, or how it doesn't patch a lot of apps leaving them in Aqua, or the slowdown it causes...

But that would be silly, petty, and dishonest.

[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Oh please version, he was exaggerating. using FUD.

"Fear Uncertainty and Doubt"

that is exactly what he is doing.

Well if he actually believes it, then I don't know what to say. Before recently it took him awhile to admit that it was just the OLD extras.rsrc that was causing people to "have" to reinstall their OS. Before he was just saying it was happening randomly.

I honestly see it differently to you. Even this thread was pretty innocuous from the start.

Apple lost a lot of credibility in the claim department because of that.

Ah, but how many Mac users actually thought they had lost credibility? I still see the same erroneous statements being made about OS X, Macs, and their perceived speed.

Anyway, I do think you're getting bent out of shape over nothing.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

I honestly see it differently to you.

How can it be seen any other way?

Even this thread was pretty innocuous from the start.

yes, but before yet another user got sucked up by the "safe FUD" I wanted it to be made known beforehand.

There is nothing wrong with correcting misleading information.

What I see here is people jumping my case for trying to make it clear.

Ah, but how many Mac users actually thought they had lost credibility?

How many Mac users believe it when Apple says their computers are TWICE as fast? I am betting only the naive.

Anyway, I do think you're getting bent out of shape over nothing.

Not bent out of shape at all.

This is just me, someone that has been in the OS X themeing culture since the start, Just dispelling some myths about themeing.

[Zimphire]

BTW, I want everyone to know I am not saying one shouldn't use SS. By all means use it. It's a great app, and helps themers do things they normally wouldn't be able to do without it.

And for that, Unsanity, and smeger should be applauded.

For that reason, and that reason alone it makes SS worth it.

No FUD is needed to sell that product.

Esp now any competition is gone.

[Rosyna]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

BTW smeger check out this

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...r+hosed+system


I guess he has to reinstall eh?

Not that it was SS fault. But hey, I am just being honest.

Congratulations, you just proved everyone else's point. This guy was having problems because he had installed a theme that modified Extras.rsrc. This install went bad.

I suggest actually reading a thread in the future before you use it to prove a point. Especially when this thread just disproves your theory.

[ZXspectrum]

Originally Posted by Rosyna

I suggest actually reading a thread in the future before you use it to prove a point. Especially when this thread just disproves your theory.

which theory??? do you pepole really thinks that he can post 200 times a day jump from a forum to a forum and make sense...you are taking him to series. he is just toying with you let him talk.

***"Have the courage to be ignorant of a great number of things, in order to avoid the calamity of being ignorant of everything"






.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by Rosyna

Congratulations, you just proved everyone else's point. This guy was having problems because he had installed a theme that modified Extras.rsrc. This install went bad.

No, my point about people blaming certain things on certain apps or installers fault when it was user error that caused it.

Installers didn't cause this. Manually installing didn't cause this.

Users installing old themes that didn't mean to be installed with that OS caused this.

What would happen if someone tried to install say SS version 1 on Tiger?

If it wouldn't boot, or mess up their system, would it be SS fault? Would that make SS dangerous? Of course not.

saying so would be spreading FUD.

I suggest actually reading a thread in the future before you use it to prove a point. Especially when this thread just disproves your theory.

It did no such thing.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by ZXspectrum

which theory??? do you pepole really thinks that he can post 200 times a day jump from a forum to a forum and make sense...you are taking him to series. he is just toying with you let him talk.

Does suzy need a tampon?

[ZXspectrum]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Does suzy need a tampon?

you hate that don't you? JerryZ i am scaring off your customers

BTW - it will be my honour if you will post No.30,000 on this thread, i think it's possible.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by ZXspectrum

you hate that don't you? JerryZ i am scaring off your customers

You are doing what? My what?

Tell me ZX, what do I sell? I have nothing to gain by dispelling this FUD.
Not a dang thing.
Just like with Apple and the mhz thing. I thought it was lame too, and mentioned it.

BTW - it will be my honour if you will post No.30,000 on this thread, i think it's possible.

Tell you what, you get your panties out of the perpetual knot, and I'll think about it.

Deal?

[ZXspectrum]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Tell you what, you get your panties out of the perpetual knot, and I'll think about it.

Deal?

you should really go back to "Clinically Insane", i think your condition is getting worse by the post

[MacDog]

Zimph... w

You have ZERO credibility, and you're trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throat. The problem is that very few (if any at all here) share your opinion, and the only FUD here is the ridiculous poopie your're spreading.

Nobody was "Scared" into buying anything and nobody here believes otherwise (except you of course).

Nobody actually believes that it's easier or safer to edit files manually and nobody here can believe that you would be stupid enough to actually try to get anyone at all to believe that.

And finally, I'm fairly certain that nobody really cares what you have to say about this anymore because you apparently just like to see your name on posts here... so I propose the mods lock this useless thread.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by ZXspectrum

you should really go back to "Clinically Insane", i think your condition is getting worse by the post

I am not the one acting like a women with an attitude problem ZX. That would be you.

Pot, Kettle, Black.

It cracks me up that you even have a problem with it.

Keep on acting like a jerk, and I will continue to make fun of you for it.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by MacDog

Zimph... w

You have ZERO credibility,

I have zero credibility? WTH? Do you even know me or anything about me to even make such claims? I didn't think so.

and you're trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throat.

Not an opinion. As I have posted many examples.

But hey, if feel free to prove me wrong.

The problem is that very few (if any at all here) share your opinion,

Actually quite a few people do.

and the only FUD here is the ridiculous poopie your're spreading.

Then BY ALL MEANS prove me wrong.

Nobody was "Scared" into buying anything and nobody here believes otherwise (except you of course).

Again, I have been told otherwise by people that have bought SS because of the self install Boogyman they were told about that will make them have to reinstall their OS.

Nobody actually believes that it's easier or safer to edit files manually

Well good thing no one was trying to say that. You really need to pay attention.
This shows me you really didn't read what I had to say, just knee-jerked.

and nobody here can believe that you would be stupid enough to actually try to get anyone at all to believe that.

How do you know? You don't even know what I was saying. You proved that above.

And finally, I'm fairly certain that nobody really cares what you have to say about this anymore because you apparently just like to see your name on posts here... so I propose the mods lock this useless thread.

How silly.

YEAH MODS LOCK IT!!! Some people have a problem with truth being told.

HOW DARE I!!

I am such a horrible guy.



Next time if you are going to try to "call me out" at least don't do it without baseless accusations, and please try to at least know what I was talking about.

I wonder if virus companies that spread FUD, get the same defense from it's users.

I don't think anyone dispelling that myth got flamed as much.

People need to put the zeal down.

But just for you I will repeat what I have been saying.

1. SS IS easier than installing themes by hand
2. SS and installers are equally as easy
3. SS and installing themes manually are equally as safe.
4. SS and installing themes through an installer are equally safe.
5. User error can screw up either one. That does not make the process itself less safe. That just means people can be idiots sometimes.

I don't think anyone should really have a problem with me saying that.

SS is a great app, that does great things. And I have no problem with the app itself.

[smeger]

So it seems that in this thread I've been called a liar and accused personally of spreading FUD by Zimphire. Polite. Courteous. Civilized.

I don't like FUD and I don't like being accused of spreading it. I hope that you'll realize that you're wrong. But I don't hold out much hope of it.

Zimphire, I've refuted your points here and in other threads, and I don't plan to do it again. The only thing new that you've added to this conversation since my last post was your link to this thread which you claim is an example of ShapeShifter hosing a system. If you read this link, that you added to this thread, you'll see that the person in question's problems were caused BY USING A PACKAGE INSTALLER, not by ShapeShifter.

The most common way that people have hosed their systems by manually swapping files was by applying a 10.2 theme that included a localized Finder.rsrc file to a 10.3 operating system. The localized Finder.rsrc contained non-graphical resources that had the same ID as those in 10.3, but were of a different format. This caused the Finder to crash on launch. People also applied themes that contained a hacked CoreGraphics executable. CoreGraphics changes in nearly every operating system. This caused an unbootable computer.

The installer packages contained these files and did not contain any checks to see whether these files would work with the user's operating system.

When ShapeShifter applies a theme, it only modifies the graphical resources in a resource file, preventing the first issue, and it never patches executable code like CoreGraphics, preventing the second. Ergo, safer. No FUD.

Where's my apology?

[smeger]

By the way, chatelp, I'm sorry that this thread about your product has been crapped on so hard. Zimphire, this is a beautiful way to encourage new software developers to keep producing stuff of this nature!

(yes, that was sarcasm)

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by smeger

So it seems that in this thread I've been called a liar and accused personally of spreading FUD by Zimphire. Polite. Courteous. Civilized.

smeger you did indeed spread FUD in this thread. And about the lying thing, I never called you a liar, I said you very well could believe this.

I don't like FUD and I don't like being accused of spreading it. I hope that you'll realize that you're wrong. But I don't hold out much hope of it.

Well I've been doing both for about what 5 years now. If I was wrong, you'd think I would have ran into some snags.

Zimphire, I've refuted your points here and in other threads, and I don't plan to do it again.

No, you made excuses and you were vague. Like saying that manually installing themes could cause you to hose your system. You never refuted any of my points. Well not successfully.

You also forget to mention (in the past, and you allude to it in this post), only if you installed a theme from an OLDER OS. Which = user error. The process ITSELF is NOT dangerous.

The only thing new that you've added to this conversation since my last post was your link to this thread which you claim is an example of ShapeShifter hosing a system.

Example of someone CLAIMING it did. Just like you CLAIMED someone manually installing a theme hosed their system. Which it did not either. Someone installing an OLD theme hosed their system.

So if you want to go around telling people that installing OLD themes for OLD OSs is dangerous, and that they shouldn't do it. Be my guest. You'll have no complaints here.

If you read this link, that you added to this thread, you'll see that the person in question's problems were caused BY USING A PACKAGE INSTALLER, not by ShapeShifter.

Yes smeger I addressed that already. And it WASN"T THE PACKAGE INSTALLERS FAULT either. It was the person RUNNING the package installer.

What SS does, is make theming IDIOT proof. That doesn't mean it's really any SAFER, that means it's not as easy for IDIOTS to mess up their stuff.

And NEW installers handed out by theme makers like Max should have no problems what-so-ever in installing correct themes.

Like I said, when I modified Smooth Stripes I manually HOT SWAPPED the Extras.rsrc then logged out then back in several times in one day till I got the resource right.

If the process itself was SO dangerous, my odds of screwing my system up would have been great.

It's not the process that is dangerous.

The most common way that people have hosed their systems by manually swapping files was by applying a 10.2 theme that included a localized Finder.rsrc file to a 10.3 operating system.

INDEED! That isn't just the MOST COMMON way, that is the ONLY way I have seen it hose someone's system. And even then it wasn't HOSED that someone NEEDED to reinstall like you claimed. Again, that isn't the fault of the process, but the user. So that doesn't make the PROCESS of doing it any less safe.

The localized Finder.rsrc contained non-graphical resources that had the same ID as those in 10.3, but were of a different format. This caused the Finder to crash on launch. People also applied themes that contained a hacked CoreGraphics executable. CoreGraphics changes in nearly every operating system. This caused an unbootable computer.

The installer packages contained these files and did not contain any checks to see whether these files would work with the user's operating system.

When ShapeShifter applies a theme, it only modifies the graphical resources in a resource file, preventing the first issue, and it never patches executable code like CoreGraphics, preventing the second. Ergo, safer. No FUD.

Where's my apology?

No, the process IS NOT SAFER. Both PROCESSES ARE JUST AS SAFE.

Like I said, SS is safer than installers or manually installing the way wearing a helmet to use the bathroom is safer than not wearing a helmet.

Someone that is clumsy and can't walk might indeed benefit from wearing a helmet to the bathroom.

But most people don't even think about it.

So if you want to say SS is safer in that way, fine. But the processes itself isn't safer.

And it surely doesn't make up for any problems SS would cause.

Again, until you can admit the process itself isn't any more dangerous, I don't know what to tell you.

It's not the process that is dangerous. It's the USER that is.

Just like 99% of the problems people post in here that they have about SS (aside from the not working in all applications and the sluggishness in Tiger) are USER errors as well. And I would NEVER blame SS for it either. It doesn't CAUSE the problem.

So if you said "Installng old themes from old OSes is more dangerous than using ShapeShifter", I would have to indeed agree with you.

You are STILL trying to spread the FUD I see however.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by smeger

By the way, chatelp, I'm sorry that this thread about your product has been crapped on so hard. Zimphire, this is a beautiful way to encourage new software developers to keep producing stuff of this nature!

(yes, that was sarcasm)

When did I say a bad thing about his product smeger? When did I tell him he needed to stop?

As a matter of fact, I had nothing but GOOD things to say about APE and SS, that they were GREAT APPS.

I know you say sarcasm, but that is a cop out and you know it.

[version]

Originally Posted by smeger

By the way, chatelp, I'm sorry that this thread about your product has been crapped on so hard. Zimphire, this is a beautiful way to encourage new software developers to keep producing stuff of this nature!

(yes, that was sarcasm)

Yeah, that's the sad part. Someone actually creates something to help other people, and look what happens. Ya know, I'm just as guilty for stepping in, but damn zim, you just can't let something go and look at the wider picture.

I mean, it's amazing we ever invented computers in the first pace, what with being able to do calculations with an abacus and all.

Also, it is sad to see someone as cool as smeger being called all sorts. The guy has only ever been courteous, fruendly and funny in here, as well as being a dev. for Macs. That's good enough in my books to earn big respect.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

Yeah, that's the sad part. Someone actually creates something to help other people, and look what happens.

Me saying it's a great app and that most other haxies are too?

THE SHAME!!!

Ya know, I'm just as guilty for stepping in, but damn zim, you just can't let something go and look at the wider picture.

Wider picture? That it's ok to spread FUD to try to sell a product, or gain a market?

Also, it is sad to see someone as cool as smeger being called all sorts.

What has he been called?

The guy has only ever been courteous, fruendly and funny in here, as well as being a dev. for Macs. That's good enough in my books to earn big respect.

Oh I have respect for him as a dev. No doubt. But should I just ignore anything someone does just because they were nice?

Symantec makes nice programs for the Mac, and I am sure they are nice too.

But that doesn't mean when they yelled FIRE in a crowded theatre, that we shouldn't speak out about it.

Funny how i never saw the same attack on users attacking Symantec for the same thing.

[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

When did I say a bad thing about his product smeger? When did I tell him he needed to stop?

As a matter of fact, I had nothing but GOOD things to say about APE and SS, that they were GREAT APPS.

I know you say sarcasm, but that is a cop out and you know it.

You crapped all over his post by saying this.

Zim:
Actually, that is not true. Haxies are modifications. And they do effect your computer.

It just modifies the resources in a different way.

Not that modifying your computer is bad no matter how you do it when you know what you are doing.

This FUD is silly. Unsanity should really stop promoting it.

You said that in the second reply here. That's not cool.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

You crapped all over his post by saying this.

I crapped on (not his thread BTW ZXspectrum posted it) by telling the truth? Even smeger corrected it.

I think the original post should have said that it'll leave your filesystem free of modification.

Did he crap all over the thread?

You said that in the second reply here. That's not cool.

Was it not cool when smeger did it too?

Come on version, you are digging too hard to try to pin something on me.

What is sad is, someone can't disagree with someone or discuss something with someone without people getting all zealous and apologetic and pissy with anyone that DARE question anything.

It's 100% silly.

You would have thought I said something about someone's mom.

[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Me saying it's a great app and that most other haxies are too?


Funny how i never saw the same attack on users attacking Symantec for the same thing.

It is really impossible to nail you down into admitting that what you're doing is just not called for. It is pointless discussing, I mean arguing, with you. You very rarely back down over a thing, that's cool, it's your right. But it just come across as bad vibes to me.

You might cloak your argument behind kind words on the thing you're attacking. But it's a very thin veil.

Anyway, just because some people choose to take the stance that Shapeshifter is safer than manually copying files into your System folder, doesn't mean you should berate them for it.

Many, many people can see the huge gulf in usability, safety, and functionality between skinning OS X with Shapeshfter or doing the old install by brute force method.

[version]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

I crapped on (not his thread BTW ZXspectrum posted it) by telling the truth? Even smeger corrected it.


Did he crap all over the thread?

Was it not cool when smeger did it too?
.

There's a hell of a big difference between your comments and smeger's.

Also, truth is subjective, you know that. But that's the hinge in al lof this, that Shapeshifter really is a safer way to theme. Well, I might be wrong in saying that in your eyes, but I believe it., and that's all I really care about.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

It is really impossible to nail you down into admitting that what you're doing is just not called for.

Cause I am not doing anything wrong.

Was article not called for? Was threads about such a thing not called for?

I mean I am sure they are nice guys making nice Apple products for the Mac.

HOW DARE THE REGISTER POINT OUT WHAT THEY DID WAS SPREADING FUD!!1

It is pointless discussing, I mean arguing, with you. You very rarely back down over a thing, that's cool, it's your right. But it just come across as bad vibes to me.

Do a search in this whole forum of me apologizing to many people when I was wrong. Please stop making baseless accusations.

This kind of FUD is what I am talking about. No one can discuss anything honestly anymore. Just full of sarcasm, baseless accusations and all out silliness.

You might cloak your argument behind kind words on the thing you're attacking. But it's a very thin veil.

I am not ATTACKING anything. Just like The Register wasn't ATTACKING Symantec. They was just INFORMING.

Anyway, just because some people choose to take the stance that Shapeshifter is safer than manually copying files into your System folder, doesn't mean you should berate them for it.

Wait, I am getting berating for taking the stance that it's not ANY safer, and I am getting berated for it. Is that somehow better? That is exactly what you are doing.

Many, many people can see the huge gulf in usability, safety, and functionality between skinning OS X with Shapeshfter or doing the old install by brute force method.

Many people have been misinformed as well. As I have seen over the past 5 or more years in the theming community.

"OMG How did you do that without SS?!"
"I installed manually"
"Didn't that screw up your system, I was told it did, and you have to reinstall"

I get sick of hearing that .

As far as SS or any products by that company goes, I have nothing but good things to say about them. I am glad they offer all those hacks to make people happy. I am glad they found a market, and is flourishing in it.

I myself used to use MightyMouse when I was using a non-drop shadow mac to give me a drop-shadow. I couldn't have done it without Unsanity.

Just like I love Macs, and OS X. I can't think of any other OS I would want.

that doesn't mean I bought Apple's mhz boasts, or that I didn't make fun of them for saying such things.

And me making comments about it is not rude or disrespectful.

I actually got offended that Apple thought it's users were that stupid.

When someone went and debunked Apple's claims, there was a lot of pissy Mac users yelling at those that supported said facts. Called them names etc. Got pissy at them even.

I'd rather know the truth, that be apologetic to FUD.

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by version

There's a hell of a big difference between your comments and smeger's.

For example? You just claimed me correcting him was the bad part. But ok. Give an example.

Also, truth is subjective, you know that.

It is? Who is teaching you this?

But that's the hinge in al lof this, that Shapeshifter really is a safer way to theme.

Just like wearing a helmet is safer while using the bathroom than not wearing a helmet.

Just like wearing protective glasses all day long is safer on your eyes than not wearing them.

I think SS is great. But it's overkill for me. I don't switch themes. I only use one theme. It's not a complicated one either.

It also runs on my computer without any 3rd party haxie running swapping resources on the fly. (Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I am just anal retentive)

I had a few incompatibility problems and inconsistencies that I really didn't want to deal with in SS.

But having that choice TO use it is an important one.

I've been bad-mouthed for not using SS, and been called a moron/idiot for not using it. I find it amusing

[MacMan4000]

let it die. we all have our opinions and we all don't care what each others opinions are... let it die.

[MacDog]

[ArcticBear]

Zimphire, you are in fact correct in a lot of what you said, BUT:

1. The thread was about a new haxie (not even produced by Unsanity).
2. It was not about Unsanity spreading "FUD." The first mention of "FUD" in this thread is in your reply, though, yes, you could infer a whole argument from some part of the original post,... which you did...

So you are right, but irrelevant. You're pushing for "truth", but not every mention of the truth is a good thing. Example:

Suppose one of your friends, someone you grew up with, is running for local public office, mayor or such. One of the items in his platform is pushing for good working conditions and health insurance for laborers. And you knew this guy picked his nose right up through the 6th grade. That's related to health, right?

So whenever people talk about this guy running for office and his plans you always, always add, "Well, he picked his nose all the way through 6th grade... I mean, he's a great guy, but you know, he picked... No, really, HE'S AWESOME. I think you SHOULD vote for him. He picked his nose, but that shouldn't stop you from voting..."

Granted, it's the truth. But it's also destroying his good public reputation, and doing so unnecessarily. It really makes no difference to his platform whether he picked his nose or not.

In much the same way, it really makes no difference to the original topic whether someone posted something that could be taken as pushing "FUD".


Congrats to chatelp for getting this haxie out the door. I hope you keep developing it. In whatever way I can do this, I apologize for the thread hijacking.

Thanks to smeger, Kate, ZXspectrum, version, everyone really for sensible posting.

No thanks to Zimphire. I'm sure you're a nice guy, who is kind to animals and all that, but... take a break, huh?

[Hi I'm Ben]

Pleases stop trashing all the threads that come out in the GUI Forum. It's annoying and the section of the forum is hurting enough. Don't respond to this either. Just read and accept it.

Originally Posted by Zimphire

For example? You just claimed me correcting him was the bad part. But ok. Give an example.

It is? Who is teaching you this?

Just like wearing a helmet is safer while using the bathroom than not wearing a helmet.

Just like wearing protective glasses all day long is safer on your eyes than not wearing them.

I think SS is great. But it's overkill for me. I don't switch themes. I only use one theme. It's not a complicated one either.

It also runs on my computer without any 3rd party haxie running swapping resources on the fly. (Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I am just anal retentive)

I had a few incompatibility problems and inconsistencies that I really didn't want to deal with in SS.

But having that choice TO use it is an important one.

I've been bad-mouthed for not using SS, and been called a moron/idiot for not using it. I find it amusing

[Zimphire]

I don't believe trying to educate the masses about mis-information is trashing threads, but ok.

I'll take in consideration.

And thanks ArticBear for at least having the guts to agree with me.

Originally Posted by ArcticBear

Thanks to smeger, Kate, ZXspectrum, version, everyone really for sensible posting.

One name doesn't belong in that group as far as "sensible posting" goes.

BTW maybe the mods will break the thread into two.

Put the "Safe themeing" talk into this thread

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...59#post2552659

Any other discussion about said topic could go in there as well.

[Randman]

Actually, just about any thread that deals with theming and we have at least a post from Zimp talking about manually installing themes.
That's fine for you and we get that you prefer your way. That doesn't mean that others are wrong. As pointed out, this thread was originally about a haxie produced by someone else other than the folks at Unsanity. It does what it says but for many people who use themes, it doesn't work. Then the thread was hijacked into the pros/cons of APE and Shapeshifter, much of what was bandied about was incorrect.

Let it die.

[Zimphire]

REPLY TO RANDMAN IN CORRECT THREAD
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...59#post2552659
Why you had to keep this one going off track with your personal jabs is beyond me. If you truly wanted to let it die, you'd have never posted it

[TheSpaz]

Zimphire... you're an idiot.

Just give up... nobody supports you. They're doing the same thing to you as they did to me when I made the thread about the stupid menu item hilights. Nobody cares I guess.

[Ji Eun]

ah, the woefully undermoderated MacNN GUI Forum

[chatelp]

if you want to discuss about the bugs you encountered with Unifier, problems with ShapeShifter, feature request.... just come to my homepage, there is a "comment" feature, it'll work just like a forum.
And i'll try to keep the thread on the right track

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by TheSpaz

Zimphire... you're an idiot.

TheSpaz, your nick suits you well.

Just give up... nobody supports you.

You obviously have never read this forum. Many people have indeed said I was right.

Not that I needed them to say I was right to be right. Stop being silly.

They're doing the same thing to you as they did to me when I made the thread about the stupid menu item hilights. Nobody cares I guess.

No, no they aren't. Your thread was a bit different. And you probably got treated that way for calling people idiots.

Pot, kettle, black.

[brutal]

Ok, sorry if I ruin this thread by actually asking about something Unifier-related, but why can't Firefox be unified?

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by brutal

Ok, sorry if I ruin this thread by actually asking about something Unifier-related, but why can't Firefox be unified?

Because it's not a true OS X app.

[chatelp]

Originally Posted by Zimphire

Because it's not a true OS X app.

true, which is why a lot of people tend to prefer Camino over Firefox.

[chezpaul]

How many times do I have to say this... Put Zimph on IGNORE !!!!
I've had him for maybe two years now and macnn forums are so much better.

Even this thread was cool.


About this little haxie... will it work on itunes, ichat etc ?

[Zimphire]

Originally Posted by chezpaul

How many times do I have to say this... Put Zimph on IGNORE !!!! :

Hey, I've been telling people that for years too.

The people that actually use the ignore feature instead of using self restraint, I usually don't want responding to me anyhow.