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You are here: MacNN Forums > Enthusiast Zone > Art & Graphic Design > quark suxx azzzzzzzzzzz...

quark suxx azzzzzzzzzzz...
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art_director
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Feb 21, 2004, 04:56 PM
 
i just finished building a file that's due yesterday fast. i go to save and quark 6 says it cannot find the volume or some shiit. i tried again and it said the file was already open.

i wish quark could explain what good their application is if i CAN'T SAVE MY FOOKING WORK!!!!!!!!

i've finally had it. indesign here i come.
     
art_director  (op)
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Feb 21, 2004, 05:21 PM
 
interesting...

the document that i could not save was first a qxd.5 document. i saved it as a new file* to get the graphic elements and began working on a new ad.

so i go back, create a new document in qxd.6 and wala, no issues. what a funky program. can you smell it?




* i know, i know, sloppy art director move. it should be a template but i'm lazy and it was the fastest way to get movin'.
     
RedStar
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Feb 21, 2004, 10:02 PM
 
The few assignments I've had involving quark at school have been pretty disastrous as well. With the 3 different versions of quark we run in our lab it is almost impossible to keep track of what file is what. During my portfolio development class this semester I tried opening three seperate quark documents and none would open. It is very frustrating losing work not because of neglect or a mistake, but because your software is temperamental.

I know this isn't as bad as losing an important document for a client, but it is annoying nonetheless.

</quark rant>
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 21, 2004, 11:03 PM
 
quarks had that problem for ages, since 3 I think.



in other news:
QUARK RULZ INDESIGN DROOLZ.
     
art_director  (op)
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Feb 22, 2004, 08:52 AM
 
as a freelancer i'm usually brought it for the quick turnaround jobs. it's not unusual to be given *very short* periods of time to pull off difficult projects. and my next job is based on how i deliver with the current task before me. missing even one deadline can cost me a lot of money. mine is a position that cannot afford a half-baked design application solution like quark 6, 5, 4...

for the reasons stated above i've seen many freelancers switching to indesign. they all swear that it's far more stable and reliable than quark. not having integrated it into my workflow i cannot say whether this is true. regardless, anything's worth a try given the choicse on the table.
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 22, 2004, 12:57 PM
 
heheh actually for all my indesign hate I use it about 50% of the time, if only so I *know* how to use it. I don't enjoy using it as much as quark, but I also don't enjoy using word either, but I still do.
     
art_director  (op)
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Feb 22, 2004, 01:17 PM
 
okay, zook, we know you love qx. but honestly, are there things about id that you like *more* than qx? if so, what moght they be?

i've heard that id makes flawless pdfs every time. 'course, i don't have much problem with that in qx.5.
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 22, 2004, 02:45 PM
 
i don't really have a problem making flawless pdf's unless *I* screw something up. That aside, I like ID's customizable shortcuts, I wish every program under the sun had this. I like "fit image to box" "fit box to image" and such, but I'm not sure if qxp6 has this, I haven't used it much yet. I still can't get into id/s pallet happy interface, I really wish adobe would give us a way to design our own pallets.

The vector tools in id are nice too, but I'd rather use a real vector program.
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 22, 2004, 02:47 PM
 
oh yeah and ID has nicer icons. Its 'collect for print' or whatever its called does a better job than quark's but thats what flight check is for anyway.
     
art_director  (op)
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Feb 23, 2004, 08:45 AM
 
wow, design your own palettes would be bad azz.

flight check? hmmmm...i have a hard time justifying purchasing such an expensive app when qxd is supposed to do that anyway. if id does a better job i'd say that's another feather in adobe's hat.
     
JacobyO
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Feb 23, 2004, 10:19 AM
 
Much of the time, the saving issue is caused by trying to save over a document that was created in an earlier version. Save it with a modified name and try. If that still doesn't work then jump up and down and curse. That's what I do.

I have posted about this many times. Indesign has quite a few features that Quark doesn't have. Many of them are overkill and should be done in Illustrator or photoshop but some of them are really cool. ID definitely has more options in its collect for Print feature. Quark will collect everything you need to print the job but ID can collect some of the things you may want to give your prepress guy in order to get more done that just pressing print.

ID has more built in control of PDF creation as would be expected, but if you have Acrobat Pro and have a bunch of Distiller job styles created for the different PDF purposes then Quark is quicker at getting what you need out. No extra steps in the App, just make Postscript and drag to distiller.

The Quark 6.1 update did fix one major issue I had with the first release. When you wanted to save to a Q5 document you would choose the 5 format in the save window but it wouldn't take until you hit it again. That has been fixed now. They have also added an Excel Import feature right into the import dialogue. I have yet to use it but I am sure it will come in handy someday.

I would switch over to indesign but unfortunately it just not accepted by the people I have to send files to. If it were just printers then I would find a printer who does accept it, but unfortunately most of the fies I do have to be sent to Magazine publishers who are still living well into the stone ages.

Almost forgot...

Customizable palettes might be the best idea I have heard yet.
     
bluedog
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Feb 23, 2004, 12:04 PM
 
Not that this will help you with that past job. But in Quark, I've run across the 'cannot save glitches' before and solved it by doing the following:

Open a new document and COPY/PASTE the entire contents into the new document. This isn't REALLY feasible for longer documents, but works like a charm for shorter ones (which is most of what I have anyhow).

I believe the problem is in how quark likes to hang onto the document that is open and keeps the file active. This is unlike Photoshop in that an open document is entirely in memory or in PS's own caching mechansisms.

If Quark loses its connection to a fileserver, or someone 'loses' its place as to where the open document is -- fubar! Presto magico and you can't save your file.

Ciao for now.
     
graphicpush
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Feb 23, 2004, 12:29 PM
 
Although I have used Quark for years and years (mostly version 4.1), I have never had any problems with saving documents either on Windows or Mac OS9. That being said, I have started doing all my work in InDesign and haven't looked back. Its just so superior in just about every way that I can't even begin to list them all.

Art Director, convert. Come to the light. Enjoy perfect workflow, awesome table design and intelligent pallettes. Bath in the beauty of Photoshop and Illustrator integration, advanced style sheets and sweet, sweet typographic control.
Kevin
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Corys
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Feb 23, 2004, 02:03 PM
 
Originally posted by graphicpush:
Although I have used Quark for years and years (mostly version 4.1), I have never had any problems with saving documents either on Windows or Mac OS9. That being said, I have started doing all my work in InDesign and haven't looked back. Its just so superior in just about every way that I can't even begin to list them all.

Art Director, convert. Come to the light. Enjoy perfect workflow, awesome table design and intelligent pallettes. Bath in the beauty of Photoshop and Illustrator integration, advanced style sheets and sweet, sweet typographic control.

I'm with you on this one...I was a diehard Quark user...UNTIL Indesign CS came out..

I'm in the process of switching everything over to indesign. Quark 6's lackluster features nailed the coffin for me..

there are just too many small bonuses with indesign that makes my life so much easier..
www.prepressforums.com
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andi*pandi
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Feb 23, 2004, 02:25 PM
 
Um, zookie, QX 4 has "fit image to box." I use it all the time!

cmd-shift-f, cmd-shift-option-f (proportionate)

I have also had the save as problem in quark 4. Usually I just rename it and am good to go. My first step with any "unable to save" issue.

Have reserved thoughts on ID until work actually implements it. Expect my report sometime in 2005.
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 24, 2004, 06:24 AM
 
andi: oh ****, who'da thunk it?

a/d: ID's job collect features are better than quarks, but neither can hold a candle to flightcheck. which I guess is a good thing for the flightcheck boys, but its kinda inconvinient for the rest of us.
     
designbc
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Feb 24, 2004, 09:33 AM
 
But the new Acrobat Professional also does a great job on preflight. Doesn't it?
There is no spoon
     
art_director  (op)
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Feb 25, 2004, 07:36 PM
 
bastards...


my biggest client alerted all freelancers and agencies they employ to upgrade to be prepared to accept qx 6 files by mid-january. as many would have done i bought the upgrade and i hate it. now that client has informed everyone that they will not be upgrading to qx 6 until an image updating issue is resolved with qx.

so, why are the bastards at qx still fooking with that web shiit when their bread and butter clients are being ignored?

anyone exchanging native id files with native qx files? no offense to the younger members but i'm looking for real world design and production experience. what are the pros? cons? any MAJOR work-stopping issues? major files conflicts?

i'm thinking anything would be better than having qx 6 rename files for me arbitrarily. not to mention the image swapping crap my client speaks of.

thx.
     
siliconwarrior
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Feb 26, 2004, 03:33 PM
 
Are you talking about opening QX files in ID? In my production experience (prepress) it has often been quicker to open an old QX4 job in ID and give it a quick check before output (ID can help here by highlighting any issues such as missing fonts) than opening it in QX6 and wrestling with all the bugs and glitches.

The only drawback is that as far as I know there's no way of changing back to QX - not that I intend to anyway, I can only hope that I can ditch QX as soon as possible.
Silicon-Age Warrior
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 27, 2004, 04:46 AM
 
a/d: *nelson* HAW HAW *points and laughs at your suffering*

I know I'm not in the minority, because I've heard this complaint ALOT, but everytime I've attempted converting a QXP document to ID its screwed it up enough to the point where I end up redoing it. Again, I might be in the minority. Actually I lie, not everytime does it screw it up.... about... 3/10 times it actually works. Anytime I start throwing in multiple pages the more pages the more odds of it screwing it up. ID's all cool and all if thats your chosen page layout program, but don't try to screw with its quark conversion.
     
JacobyO
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Feb 27, 2004, 10:32 AM
 
I would agree with godzookie on that one. If you don't have to open a QX file in ID then don't. You are just asking for trouble. While I have had success you just never know what you might have missed. Especially if you are opening a file that you didn't build.
     
art_director  (op)
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Feb 27, 2004, 08:13 PM
 
okay, so what the fux up with qx renaming files and sheet?
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 28, 2004, 10:05 AM
 
quark renames files? Your comp is possessed. I still got my copy of quark 4 lying around that actually works properly, want it?
     
godzookie2k
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Feb 28, 2004, 10:06 AM
 
i think quark should start selling quark 4 again. except with multiple undos. Just say like: "ok guys, look, we ****ed up, so like, we're selling the good version again. Our bad. But to make up for it we paid an indian guy a few bucks to jam in multiple undos. happy?"
     
art_director  (op)
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Feb 28, 2004, 11:29 AM
 
Originally posted by godzookie2k:
i think quark should start selling quark 4 again. except with multiple undos. Just say like: "ok guys, look, we ****ed up, so like, we're selling the good version again. Our bad. But to make up for it we paid an indian guy a few bucks to jam in multiple undos. happy?"


a hardy AMEN to that. qx.4 was stable, consistent and usable for every day workflow. this qx.6 is piss-poor trash. damn, shoulda' pirated it instead of paying for the crap.
     
JacobyO
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Mar 1, 2004, 10:46 AM
 
I haven't had any stability issues with Quark 6. Stability has never really been my issue with Quark. As for the renaming files... I have no idea what is going on with your machine but I have never had that happen.
     
art_director  (op)
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Mar 1, 2004, 11:06 AM
 
Originally posted by JacobyO:
I haven't had any stability issues with Quark 6. Stability has never really been my issue with Quark. As for the renaming files... I have no idea what is going on with your machine but I have never had that happen.

you would be the only person i've ever heard of that hasn't had stability issues with qx.
     
almaink
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Mar 2, 2004, 07:39 AM
 
Originally posted by art_director:
you would be the only person i've ever heard of that hasn't had stability issues with qx.
Not that I think it's better than ID but I havn't had any issues with Q6 except poor documentation. It took me a week to find a way to use my Imagesetter PPD from OS9.
almaink
     
ghost_flash
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Mar 8, 2004, 01:21 PM
 
All you who are thinking of upgrading to Q6 do know that InDesign can open Q files right?
Anyone should be able to handle ID files. I had a client that demanded I use Quark, and I said, sure, sure ok, that will be twice as much money, unless I use ID. He called back an hour later. Use ID. The printer can handle those files...... nutball.
     
JacobyO
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Mar 8, 2004, 01:49 PM
 
Yes we do know that it can open QX files. However you can't save a QX file out of ID therefore it is useless if the pub or printer doesn't accept ID files.
     
ghost_flash
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Mar 8, 2004, 02:47 PM
 
Originally posted by JacobyO:
Yes we do know that it can open QX files. However you can't save a QX file out of ID therefore it is useless if the pub or printer doesn't accept ID files.
They can accept a PDF though right?
     
JacobyO
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Mar 8, 2004, 04:17 PM
 
Not always. Most of the Publications I have to deal with are stuck in the dark ages. They don't even accept Quark 5 files. They only accept Quark 4 files and you can't tell them differently.
     
redrockdes
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Mar 8, 2004, 06:35 PM
 
I am about to install the 6.1 updater, but I don't think it will fix the biggest problem I've had with Quark 6 -- which is -- when I do a "save as" another file name, Quark keeps the previous file name in the identity of the document. So when I create a PDF, I have to be very careful to manually type in the new file name instead of automatically seeing the same file name with the ".pdf" extension.

I guess this is supposed to be an advantage for people who try to synchonize content, but it should be a feature that I can "opt out" of.

Does anybody know if there is a way to get around this obstacle?
     
godzookie2k
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Mar 9, 2004, 03:14 PM
 
ghostflash: yes and we all also know that ID loves bungling quark files.
     
things
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Mar 9, 2004, 06:22 PM
 
Originally posted by JacobyO:
Not always. Most of the Publications I have to deal with are stuck in the dark ages. They don't even accept Quark 5 files. They only accept Quark 4 files and you can't tell them differently.

They will soon be forced to use ID. There are alot of Design students that are only working in ID, not quark. It's much cheaper than Quark.
     
godzookie2k
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Mar 10, 2004, 02:40 AM
 
yeah and they just won't get hired if they don't know both.
     
mitchell_pgh
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Mar 10, 2004, 09:36 AM
 
To be honest, I think AMAZING designers can use either program without many problems.

Most use Quark because it's been around the longest, they know how to use it (probably because that is what they originally learned, and they aren't interested in relearning an application)

Newer designers prefer InDesign because it's more like Photoshop and Illustrator.

That being said, I've seen some amazing designs in Indesign that are UNPRINTABLE. Just because you are creative and know how to use a design application doesn't mean you can actually make things work.

I say, to each their own. I'm a Quark person, and I'm happy enough with 6 to stick with it.
     
JacobyO
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Mar 10, 2004, 10:15 AM
 
Originally posted by redrockdes:
I am about to install the 6.1 updater, but I don't think it will fix the biggest problem I've had with Quark 6 -- which is -- when I do a "save as" another file name, Quark keeps the previous file name in the identity of the document. So when I create a PDF, I have to be very careful to manually type in the new file name instead of automatically seeing the same file name with the ".pdf" extension.

I guess this is supposed to be an advantage for people who try to synchonize content, but it should be a feature that I can "opt out" of.

Does anybody know if there is a way to get around this obstacle?
The reason names stay in a document is because they have a "layout" name as well as a file name. Since QX6 allows multiple layouts within the same file they made it so you can give each layout it's own name. When you open a document from an earlier version of Quark the "layout" name takes on the document name. If you want to change that go to the Layout menu and then to layout properties. That is where you can change the name. With the 6.1 updater it makes it so that the PDF now defaults to using the filename_layoutname.pdf naming convention. The old version only used the Layout name when creating a PDF.
     
redrockdes
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Mar 11, 2004, 10:28 PM
 
Thanks very much for explaining that!
     
gadster
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Mar 12, 2004, 08:35 AM
 
Originally posted by ghost_flash:
They can accept a PDF though right?
Exactly, so you could just place ID generated pdf pages as images into a Quark file and supply them with that.

Seriously.

The officious idiots, they're everywhere!
e-gads
     
siliconwarrior
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Mar 14, 2004, 07:44 AM
 
Amen.
Silicon-Age Warrior
     
   
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