[Some Guy []]

please stop being such anal idiots... 5g48 was posted on apple ADC site for free to most devs, so it isn't pirated.

[Norm1985]

Originally posted by Some Guy []:
<STRONG>please stop being such anal idiots... 5g48 was posted on apple ADC site for free to most devs, so it isn't pirated.</STRONG>

Yes, but not all devlopers, and the majority of people with 5G48 I bet you have pirated it and aren't even devlopers for Apple. Please stop this flaming.

[moki]

Originally posted by Some Guy []:
<STRONG>please stop being such anal idiots... 5g48 was posted on apple ADC site for free to most devs, so it isn't pirated.</STRONG>

No one has access to 5G48 legally without an NDA that strictly prohibits the vast majority of the discussion that goes on here.

Thanks for doing your job, Scott_H et al. Many people do appreciate your work here, myself included.

[starman]

moki,
Listen to yourself. The NDA has been a thorn in developer's sides for years from the standpoint of communication. Apple doesn't have a forum for developers to talk about the software, so we fly blind. If you would get off your soapbox and try to understand what a difficult position it is for us, then maybe, just MAYBE you'll stop being such a cheerleader. Microsoft has a private forum, why doesn't Apple?

Mike

[Thomas76]

I am developer, but mac developer for 3 months ago only.
I don't have any 10.1 prerelease so.

Many osX users are still using 10.0.4, I use this version too and I don't plan to search for a pirated 5Gxx on irc chat, BBS or something like I did when I was 16...
But if I ask about 10.1 it's because I want to know what 5G48 users are thinking about, what are the improvements and so on.
I don't trust official keynotes, users opinion is more reliable to my mind, that's all.

[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: Thomas76 ]

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by starman:
<STRONG>moki,
Listen to yourself. The NDA has been a thorn in developer's sides for years from the standpoint of communication. Apple doesn't have a forum for developers to talk about the software, so we fly blind. If you would get off your soapbox and try to understand what a difficult position it is for us, then maybe, just MAYBE you'll stop being such a cheerleader. Microsoft has a private forum, why doesn't Apple?

Mike</STRONG>

Why don't you go make one then? I'm sure MacNN is just as scared of Apple Legal looking at this as Moki is of the DMCA. Too bad it seems no one here gives a damn to what happens to MacNN. You think they want to fight Apple Legal - with all those "Ad Council" and charity ads? Might as well just shut this place down and save everyone the trouble.

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Nebrie:
<STRONG>

Why don't you go make one then?</STRONG>

Uh, lets see, cause it'd have the exact same probs as this one?
What sense does that comment make? Apple prohibits the discussion yet doesn't provide a forum. If he were to provide a forum for such discussion, it would only be shut down by Apple...

[TheBum]

Originally posted by Some Guy []:
<STRONG>please stop being such anal idiots... 5g48 was posted on apple ADC site for free to most devs, so it isn't pirated.</STRONG>

I'll tell you what. If MacNN allows information to be posted about obtaining builds for people who aren't developers and gets sued, let's have them send the bill to you. You have a couple of million dollars laying around, don't you?

I agree with Thomas76. I bought OS X AND the Public Beta. That's alot of $$$.

Now for the last 3 months or so I have been booting in OS 9. Why? Why do you think!?... I have been a hardcore Mac user since 1994 yet I feel cheated by Apple whilst being kept in the dark by the appaulling state of their software and being told to wait an extra 6 months for 'the real thing' (remember waiting 6 months from PB to 10?

Mostly the sluggish speed has hindered myself. I can't use 10.0.4 even similarly to the way I work and play in OS 9 where I am like a nervous wreck doing about 4 or 5 things at any one time whizzing around like a female cat on heat.

So what do I do with OS X? I don't have it installed.
What do I do with the box it came in? Didn't I like pay $100+ for all this? For what use?

Do y'all know what I do most lunch times at work? I read these very MacNN forums! I have learnt alot from these forums. I have been given hope and faith has been restored in Apple because of the 10.1 hype I notice from these boards. Thank You forum posters. Thank You very much. Thanks for helping me troubleshoot in times of need, thank you for the technical support I should really get from the guys I purchased from. Thank you for all the experienced knowledge that is offered right here right now...

The truth be here. Not like on some packaging that influences you hence being tricked into buying a product that doesn't live up to the claims made by the manufacturers.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

[Some Guy []]

Originally posted by TheBum:
<STRONG>

I'll tell you what. If MacNN allows information to be posted about obtaining builds for people who aren't developers and gets sued, let's have them send the bill to you. You have a couple of million dollars laying around, don't you?</STRONG>

Yes, i will do that as well as get a DS3 or 2 so i can host it for others. Be less of a tard and read my post again, never did i say where or how to get the "pirated" versions of it. The entire point of my post was for the pricks to realise that just cause you have a developper build doesn't mean it's freaking pirated.

stop being sissy prats.

all of you who complain about "pirate builds" and NDAs are just sissy faggots who are too ****en gay to WAREZ themselves the builds that they KNOW they want.

i'm running 48 and i love it. sucked in to you if you disagree.

[xi_hyperon]

By flaming people who are doing their job here, or people who respect the NDA, you certainly don't raise the collective IQ of these boards. If you have a problem with Scott, moki or anyone else here because of their opinions, then why not go about it in a constructive way, rather than spewing the first vitriolic thought that enters your mind (anal idiot, tard, sissy prat, cheerleader etc). Otherwise take your little toys and go troll somewhere else.

[Scott_H]

Originally posted by Some Guy []:
<STRONG>please stop being such anal idiots... 5g48 was posted on apple ADC site for free to most devs, so it isn't pirated.</STRONG>

I'm sure most of the poeple posting here have pirated versions. I have no way of knowing what is pirate and what isn't. I run under the assumption that developers are using apple's mailing list to deal with problems.

I'm going to move this one over to Suggestions and Comments. Where we can continue this discussion of MacNN policies. If you care about this issue you'll click through. I'll get one of the admins to hit the thread and post on this issue.

[gorgonzola]

We have indeed received emails from Apple in the past requesting us to edit out some sensitive information regarding prerelease builds of Mac OS X and related software products, and as this is a news site, not a rumors site, we like to be careful while at the same time allowing our members to discuss these topics which are of widespread general interest.

As Andrew said, the vast majority of the members on this forum who have build 5G48 (or any 5xxx series build, for that matter) have not obtained it legally, and those who have received an ADC mailing of the build (which is, of course, legal) are under various nondisclosure agreements that prohibit them from detailing the things that have been detailed in this forum.

Our policy is to allow discussion of prerelease and pirated software, specfically for the reason of allowing developers and such to interact with users, and to allow our members to have access to this information ahead of time, but we draw the line at actually helping someone pirate the software (where to obtain the build(s), how to deal with installation problems, etc.).

We think it's a fair policy, and we think the overwhelming majority of our members find it fair and more than generous as well.

HTH
-gzl.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by Scott_H:
[QB]

I run under the assumption that developers are using apple's mailing list to deal with problems.

/QB]

That's the point that they are trying to make. THERE IS NO APPLE MAILING LIST FOR DEVELOPERS TO DISCUSS THIS TYPE OF ISSUE!!

Now, what, aside from e-mailing Apple and requesting such a forum (because we've all tried NUMEROUS TIMES and they NEVER LISTEN), do you suggest we do????

[dbogdan]

Originally posted by gorgonzola:

Our policy is to allow discussion of prerelease and pirated software, specifically for the reason of allowing developers and such to interact with users, and to allow our members to have access to this information ahead of time, but we draw the line at actually helping someone pirate the software (where to obtain the build(s), how to deal with installation problems, etc.).

We think it's a fair policy, and we think the overwhelming majority of our members find it fair and more than generous as well.

Well put Gorgonzola!! And Scott H - you've been doing a fine job at administration (notwithstanding the various kibbitzing that's accumulated lately)...

I'll be the first to state that I have grabbed "nonofficial" beta releases from time to time. When I've had problems I have come to these boards to see if I'm alone or if anyone else has found a workaround. If I was alone or found no recourse, I accepted it and moved on. I never expected technical assistance or any sort of guidance for something that I implictly knew I wasn't entitled to anyway... others should remember that they are on their own when it comes to these things. Plus -- what's the big deal with having problems with the beta releases? I've used them to measure the milestones and functionalities and nothing else. When the "real" thing comes around, I am among the first to grab my wallet and jump on the bandwagon...

Let's look at this in context: If Apple were really, really pissed and serious about stopping the various leaks, they would actually go for blood. They know, as do the majority of readers/users in these fora, that the leaks, however lacking or superlative they may be, are actually free publicity for Apple. In this time of slumping economy and the subsequent watching of the company coffers, any free publicity (hopefully good) is worth its weight in gold. I'm also personally of the opinion that many of these "leaked" releases are in fact trial balloons - put out there to see if certain features will, in fact, fly as intended. The recent spate of overwhelmingly positive reviews of 10.1 has had the effect of invigorating the user base. As for me, I've got my OSX/OS9.1 Coupons lying right here on my desk, just waiting to hear where I'm to send the $20 for the release. I'm so moist, I went out to the store and bought a box of Depends to use when I read the OSX forums

Thanks again you guys for taking the time and spending the energy to administrate, moderate, placate, aggravate, pontificate and ejudicate. If I'm the only one who says thank you, then so be it. Thank you!!


[ 09-09-2001: Message edited by: dbogdan ]

[starman]

Person Man hit the nail on the head....

THERE IS NO APPLE FORUM/DISCUSSION/MAILING LIST/ETC. FOR DEVELOPERS!

It's been this way for as long as I can remember (since 1991). The closest was certain forums on AppleLink, but that's long dead. I've asked Apple to create developer forums and they refuse.

Don't think that developers have a place to go because if they did, they wouldn't need to post here.

Mike

[TNproud2b]

am I missing something here?

Fully half of the content in the OSX General forum is related to 'pirated' builds...

Why was just one thread locked? (somebody asked about hardware support in one of these 'pirated' builds).

Don't stop now. There are tons of threads that need locked.


I don't see how discussing a pirated build of OSX is improper. Certainly, having members post links to warez sites to obtain these builds is improper - but that isn't being done.

Dozens of MacNN members have admitted in their posts that they 'warezed' the 'pirated' build they were writing about...only to have moderators participate in the discussion as if there was nothing wrong with it.

carry on.

[ 09-10-2001: Message edited by: TNproud2b ]

[starman]

I don't understand this either. Put it this way - people have been posting screenshots of pre-release builds, and macnn.com is hosting this. However, it's improper to ASK for HELP about a pre-release build. It's almost like the forums are "one-way"; you can read what people have to say about pre-release builds, but you can't start two-way tech support discussions about it. Hmm...ok, but isn't even MENTIONING pre-release builds in ANY shape or form putting macnn.com at risk? Hosting the posts about pre-release Apple software should have one rule - don't do it. Either support it all, or don't support it all. If you start picking and choosing which posts to lock, then the line between what's ok and what's not becomes fuzzy. Since Scott admits that he thinks most people that have it are pirates, why risk Apple's wrath? For those of us like myself that have legit copies of it, we don't even have a place to discuss it!

It would be nice if Apple created a developer's forum.

Mike

[AppleGuy]

Look, I started a separate thread about this but this is a good place to post this too.

These forums have gotten TOO slow to actually use and the Developer forum, where I go to read (I am a developer) is open to the public and that sucks.

I read on MacMinute this morning that MacNETv2 started a private, members only developer forum. The speed is great and the forum is secure no one can pop in and say something stupid.

We need a place like this, if apple doesn't do it, who cares? macNET did it and I think we should bring the developers over there and get something done. http://www.macnet2.com

AppleGuy

[gorgonzola]

For those of us like myself that have legit copies of it, we don't even have a place to discuss it!

It would be nice if Apple created a developer's forum.

I FULLY sympathize with you, but you must understand that the vast majority of members who are discussing DON'T have legit copies, and we really have no way of screening people who have legit copies and people who have warez. We would LOVE to do it if we could, but we have too many members and it's simply impossible. An Apple list would be the perfect solution.

Put it this way. We're a news site. People posting *information* about pirated builds in our forums serves to bring news to the community. When it turns into "I warezed a 5G48 image and it won't boot on my QuickSilver," we don't want to go there.

If you have any suggestions to remedy this, please let us know! The problems are these:

(a) The vast majority of our forum members who have developer seeds have illegal pirated copies.
(b) While we can make a private forum, we then have to approve access for each member. Do ADC members have an ID or something that *we* can use to verify that the person is actually ADC Select/Premier? Apple employees will obviously have access, and obviously will have @apple.com addys, which is easy enough, but it's the other people who are the main reason for making the forum.

We would not mind making such a forum at all, if it was feasible to approve ADC IDs in some form or another.