[Simon]

MacRumors claims here that Apple is indeed hard at work developing the G5 iMac and that the G5 will be in the next iMac revision.

I don't know about their credibility, but they put it on their page 1. Normally the stuff they doubt is on page 2...

[rjenkinson]

that's been fairly obvious ever since the emac was updated.

-r.

[brucewayne]

While a G5 iMac would certainly rock, I really hope that they can do it but retain the moveable screen. I think it's a design that they could keep for much longer than they did with the original iMac design that got bothersome when the "updates" began to be just colour changes. I could see the FP iMac - as a design - still seeming fresh and futuristic for another 5 or 6 years, if not more.

Of course, I think heat distribution more than anything else is going to determine how long they can keep it's present form.

[Ryan Becker]

Don't hold your breath on that G5 iMac...

Think about how long it took the iMac to go G4, and that came after everything else, and also came with a complete body redesign.

I expect no less from a G5 iMac, and that's gotta be some time away still...

-Ryan

[Lateralus]

No, the G5 has to be going into the iMac if Apple wants to save it. Fact of the matter is that the iMac has gone from the machine that saved Apple to the boat anchor of the entire desktop line. Much of this is a direct result of Apple's flub ups, from not including as good of a GPU as they could, to not including anywhere near enough memory, to not including sufficient storage for the price range, and not updating the machine frequently enough and not even trying to be competetive on pricing. But none of those things are what has made the G5 iMac a must: The fact that the G4 has pretty much stalled is what has. The latest, quite likely the final G4, has only reached 1.5GHz. Taking the iMac from 1.25GHz to 1.5GHz over a span of 8 months would be a joke. And it would pretty much turn away any potential iMac buyers who are waiting to snag one up as soon as it gets a G5.

Frankly, the iMac has turned into a performance/cost joke, and Apple is aware of this. The only way around it is the G5 and more agressive pricing.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
No, the G5 has to be going into the iMac if Apple wants to save it. Fact of the matter is that the iMac has gone from the machine that saved Apple to the boat anchor of the entire desktop line. Much of this is a direct result of Apple's flub ups, from not including as good of a GPU as they could, to not including anywhere near enough memory, to not including sufficient storage for the price range, and not updating the machine frequently enough and not even trying to be competetive on pricing. But none of those things are what has made the G5 iMac a must: The fact that the G4 has pretty much stalled is what has. The latest, quite likely the final G4, has only reached 1.5GHz. Taking the iMac from 1.25GHz to 1.5GHz over a span of 8 months would be a joke. And it would pretty much turn away any potential iMac buyers who are waiting to snag one up as soon as it gets a G5.

Frankly, the iMac has turned into a performance/cost joke, and Apple is aware of this. The only way around it is the G5 and more agressive pricing.

The iMac is a consumer machine, not a pro machine, period.

Keep holding yer breath cause that G5 aint gonna be in there for a long time....

-Ryan

[Lateralus]

Then you must think Apple to be stupid.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
The iMac is a consumer machine, not a pro machine, period.

Keep holding yer breath cause that G5 aint gonna be in there for a long time....

At first this logic seems to make sense: The iMac is a consumer machine and they don't need/can't afford a G5.

Think again.

What is keeping the G5 out of there? The PowerMac will be getting >2Ghz soon. The eMac already has rather fast G4s (at least fast in the sense of the 7447's max clock). The PowerBooks obviously won't get a G5 until there is a specific notebook/low power version available in bulk.

So, why shouldn't the iMac get one? It makes just as much sense to say it will get a <2Ghz G5 at the current price tag than to say it will get a 1.5GHz G4 at a lower price point. I believe it's pretty much equally possible in the meantime. The iMac really needs a kick. The new eMac is shipping. The iMac concept is awesome, but its specs are falling behind.

[Ryan Becker]

I will not argue this point!! You guys can keep on dreaming all you want...

Keep holding your breath....

-Ryan

[Lateralus]

If you do not wish to debate the point, then you shouldn't have posted in the thread.

[Simon]

Oh well, too bad.

Actually this is what such a forum is for. To discuss and debate opinions.

Ryan, what makes you so certain? Do you believe Steve can't surprise and delight us anymore? Seriously, I'm curious.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by Simon:
Oh well, too bad.

Actually this is what such a forum is for. To discuss and debate opinions.

Ryan, what makes you so certain? Do you believe Steve can't surprise and delight us anymore? Seriously, I'm curious.

I am not discussing an opinion, I am stating a fact.

-Ryan

[Lateralus]

...Right.

[Simon]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
I am not discussing an opinion, I am stating a fact.

Since probably about 99% of the members of this forum don't know about this fact yet, could you give us some more info? URL? Press release?

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by Simon:


Since probably about 99% of the members of this forum don't know about this fact yet, could you give us some more info? URL? Press release?

Nope.

-Ryan

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
Nope.

-Ryan

Then shut the hell up, you stupid ****.

[Lateralus]

Naw.... He's on the fast track to respect and admiration here at the forum.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by Luca Rescigno:
Then shut the hell up, you stupid ****.

Wow, well aren't you a mature one!?

-Ryan

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
Naw.... He's on the fast track to respect and admiration here at the forum.

This isn't HighSchool, and I couldn't care less about what anyone thinks of me...

-Ryan

[Luca Rescigno]

At least I know the difference between "prediction" and "fact."

[Lateralus]

I think I know why you were banned from Apple Discussions now.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
I think I know why you were banned from Apple Discussions now.

No, no you don't....

-Ryan

[Luca Rescigno]

A prediction based on past history is often a good way of finding out how things in the future will turn out. If you base your prediction solely on how long it took the G4 to get to a laptop, then yes, you would expect that a G5 iMac would be about one year away. However, at that time, the G3 still had quite a bit of room to grow, and Apple could continually bump the PowerBook's speed while using G3 processors.

That's not the case now. The iMac has at most one more revision coming - 1.5 GHz G4. After that, there aren't any faster G4s coming, so it can't go anywhere. Yet you say it is a "fact" that iMacs will not have G5s for a while. Either you have a time machine or you have some inside info if it is actually a "fact" you are reporting, and you won't show us either one. So no one here has any reason to believe you. You have zero credibility. Don't get offended when others don't immediately agree with some random guy just because he insists he's right. Show us proof or get off your high horse.

[tae667]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
I am not discussing an opinion, I am stating a fact.

-Ryan

The only fact is that iMac is selling more than poorly because it's price/performance ratio is awful. How likely do you think that average shopper is going to switch to iMac when it is slower than the 2 years old PC which the iMac is supposed to replace? If it has G5 then it's a whole other story: people start to say "64bit? Wow!".

And iMac is not a consumer machine, middle range system costs almost 2400$ in Europe and that's not what consumers are willing to pay. Prosumer for it's price(not performance), but not consumer.

Apple knows these facts and it's about time they do something about it. Otherwise iMac dies.

[VolleyGirl]

I've had my checkbook and pen ready since late last year. I need a new computer (to replace my B&W G3) for a home-based graphic design business. If Apple updates iMac to G5 and offers greater RAM capability, I'll probably opt for that rather than buy a low-end G5 desktop. I want at least a 20-in. screen (I have a new G5 PowerMac and 23-in. Cinema Display at work).

Come on Apple! Don't make me wait 'til July or later.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by VolleyGirl:
I've had my checkbook and pen ready since late last year. I need a new computer (to replace my B&W G3) for a home-based graphic design business. If Apple updates iMac to G5 and offers greater RAM capability, I'll probably opt for that rather than buy a low-end G5 desktop. I want at least a 20-in. screen (I have a new G5 PowerMac and 23-in. Cinema Display at work).

Come on Apple! Don't make me wait 'til July or later.

Buy the low end G5 desktop.

-Ryan

[Spartan24]

LOL, some of you seem to make it sound like anyone who has recently purchased an Imac must have a screw loose somewhere. I recently purchased the 20" - 1.25 and absolutely love it.

Personally, I find it plenty quick enough for everything I do with small business and web design. I don't play games on it and know that if you are a serious gamer or heavy into media work this probably isn't the machine for you. However, the current Imac, IMHO, is a great looking, exceptoionally quiet, small footprint machine with a great OS and performs admirably against most windows PC's with much "faster" clock speeds.

I think because many of you are far more technically aware that the average computer user, you tend to over criticize even thought this current IMac would more than satisfy 75% of the computer users in the world. Granted, not everyone is as happy with the design as I am, but still there are plenty of people who would love to have one. I would agree that the price point is a bit high and really suspect that, more than speed or design, has something to do with sales. So, if they put a G5 in this machine, so what?? Maybe a large spreadsheet will open 1 second faster??

Don't mean to offend anyone, but sometimes we forget how good some of these machines are right now, and I am more than satisfied with the current Imac and suspect there are quite a few others out there that are too.

[Lateralus]

This has nothing to do with 'sufficient technology' though. The fact is that Apple is trying to promote itself as being at the forefront of the tech wave. The iMac, right now, offers a cost-performance ratio that would have competed well with PCs in 2002.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
This has nothing to do with 'sufficient technology' though. The fact is that Apple is trying to promote itself as being at the forefront of the tech wave. The iMac, right now, offers a cost-performance ratio that would have competed well with PCs in 2002.

Precisely. Not only does the iMac not stack terribly well cost/performance wise against PCs, but it doesn't even stack up that well against other Apple offerings.

An all-in-one machine is basically disposable. Essentially the disposable market is broken into 2 groups: cheap and laptop. The iMac is neither.

Its an eMac with an LCD screen priced like a PowerBook you can't take with you. Sure, the display is nice, but I don't think a lot of buyers are interested in buying a $1300 display (in the case of the 20") that is permanently attached to a disposable desktop computer.

I'm not saying there are no buyers for it or that such buyers are stupid (although it strikes me that they must much more disposable income than I do). I'm just saying there aren't very many of them.

A statement which I think is born out by pathetic iMac sales over the last few years.

Its a lovely computer and I certainly wouldn't complain if someone gave me one, but the reasons for it's poor sales are pretty obvious.

A G5 would make it price/performance competitive with PCs and within the Apple product line-up.

[Ryan Becker]

This is so ridiculous....

You guys do realize that there are purposes for Macs other than just competing with PCs, right? And, you do realize that the iMac is the bottom of the line Apple, right? And, you do realize that the G5 just came out, right? Put it all together folks....

It sounds to me like you guys are envious of the all-in-one iMac, but wish it could perform like your towers... well, sorry, but it's just never gonna happen!

I'm sorry to be rude, but the iMac will not be G5 for quite some time, and if you think otherwise, you are only fooling yourself.

-Ryan

[Lateralus]

You Apple apologists are very funny. Mostly because you don't see how naive and foolish you look.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by PowerMacMan:
You Apple apologists are very funny. Mostly because you don't see how naive and foolish you look.

I am not apologizing for anyone or anything, I'm just speaking the realistic truth. I don't care how fast PCs are, that has NOTHING to do with the iMac.

And, you are the one who is naive and foolish if you think the iMac will be G5 any time soon. Just because you think it should be G5 does not mean that it can or will be. It's almost certain that the iMac will have to be redesigned to work with a G5. And, sure, Apple's probably already working on it, but that doesn't mean it's ready to go public.

-Ryan

[slider]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
Don't hold your breath on that G5 iMac...

Think about how long it took the iMac to go G4, and that came after everything else, and also came with a complete body redesign.

I expect no less from a G5 iMac, and that's gotta be some time away still...

-Ryan

I hardly think that's a reliable guide to the future of updates for the iMac. For one the G4 was at a complete stand still, sort of speak. I think Apple will make the iMac as appealing as possible. The nature of the design demands a higher price, I think adding a G5 is the single most realisitc way to increase sales of the unit.

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by slider:
I hardly think that's a reliable guide to the future of updates for the iMac. For one the G4 was at a complete stand still, sort of speak. I think Apple will make the iMac as appealing as possible. The nature of the design demands a higher price, I think adding a G5 is the single most realisitc way to increase sales of the unit.

A G5 will not work in the current iMac design. To start, the mother board has to be different, and I don't think they could fit it in that hub. Second, the G5 is really hot, and the iMac's cooling system wouldn't be able to handle it.

With all the changes that would have to be made to make a G5 work in the current iMac design, it's more likely a G5 iMac would be a complete redesign, just like the G4 iMac was to the G3 iMac.

-Ryan

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
A G5 will not work in the current iMac design. To start, the mother board has to be different, and I don't think they could fit it in that hub. Second, the G5 is really hot, and the iMac's cooling system wouldn't be able to handle it.

With all the changes that would have to be made to make a G5 work in the current iMac design, it's more likely a G5 iMac would be a complete redesign, just like the G4 iMac was to the G3 iMac.

-Ryan

The G5 is not a hot processor. The cooling system in the Power Mac G5s was designed with future, high-clocked, G5s in mind.

Also, what makes you so sure that a G5-based motherboard could not fit in the iMac dome? I don't see why it wouldn't...

Tell us some of the changes that will need to be made to the iMac to accommodate a G5. I really am curious, since you know.

[Ryan Becker]

The G5 is not a hot processor.

The G5 is hot. And, it's hotter than the G4 that the iMac is designed to cool.

The cooling system in the Power Mac G5s was designed with future, high-clocked, G5s in mind.

And you don't think they would have to do this with the iMac as well?

-Ryan

[Lateralus]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
The G5 is not a hot processor.

The G5 is hot. And, it's hotter than the G4 that the iMac is designed to cool.

The cooling system in the Power Mac G5s was designed with future, high-clocked, G5s in mind.

And you don't think they would have to do this with the iMac as well?

-Ryan

1) No it isn't.

I somehow doubt you have ever been near a 7455 running at anything above 1.2GHz. They are VERY hot processors.

2) No: The Power Mac was designed to cool Dual processors, eight sticks of RAM, PCI-X cards and flaming high end AGP 8x graphics cards such as the 9800 Pro. The iMac, comparatively, has far less components to cool.

[iDaver]

I suggest that the iMac will be redesigned; it will have a G5 processor; it will still have its fully adjustable display; and it will be on the market just as soon as IBM works out their production problems with low power G5s; probably this summer.

Ryan Becker states that the iMac is the bottom of the line Mac. It is not. That distinction goes to the eMac which currently kicks the iMac around, performance wise. The adjustable LCD display isn't enough for most people to justify paying the iMacs' premium prices.

I believe and I hope Apple believes there is a need for a midrange desktop computer which is much better than an eMac but not as good as a Power Mac. A redesigned iMac with a single 1.8 Ghz G5 processor (along with the improved bus this would allow) would fill that need nicely. Improved performance will help it sell better than current iMacs, if the price is right.

I don't think a G4 speed bump will help much but we might see one more of those (perhaps this month) before a G5 iMac becomes reality. The recent eMac upgrade almost demands such an iMac speed bump.

[KEL9000]

cooligy They claim they wiil be in consumer PCs be the end of the year and Apple is one of there customers. This would be perfect for the 100W P4 and a G5 iMac. Also with the release of the Power5 the G6 should not be far behind.

[Simon]

New rumors to bring this thread back on topic.

AppleInsider claims here that Quanta is scheduled to deliver a new notebook for Apple in June. Now since new PowerBooks have just arrived in April this seems to be bull. Even more since DigiTimes (the source of this info) has a very bad credibility record.

However, for the believers MacBidouille has an interesting interpretation here. They claim Apple has always contacted their LCD products to notebook manufacturers including the G4 iMac. This could mean that Quanta is manufacturing a new iMac for Apple to be released in June.

Doesn't sound extremely likely, however, there is an iMac promo ending in June and there's WWDC. So we would be expecting new models by than anyway. Duh. And since that still doesn't tell us what CPU the new iMac will be running, double-duh.

[slider]

Originally posted by iDaver:
I suggest that the iMac will be redesigned; it will have a G5 processor; it will still have its fully adjustable display; and it will be on the market just as soon as IBM works out their production problems with low power G5s; probably this summer.

Ryan Becker states that the iMac is the bottom of the line Mac. It is not. That distinction goes to the eMac which currently kicks the iMac around, performance wise. The adjustable LCD display isn't enough for most people to justify paying the iMacs' premium prices.

I believe and I hope Apple believes there is a need for a midrange desktop computer which is much better than an eMac but not as good as a Power Mac. A redesigned iMac with a single 1.8 Ghz G5 processor (along with the improved bus this would allow) would fill that need nicely. Improved performance will help it sell better than current iMacs, if the price is right.

I don't think a G4 speed bump will help much but we might see one more of those (perhaps this month) before a G5 iMac becomes reality. The recent eMac upgrade almost demands such an iMac speed bump.

This sounds reasonable, although I would guess that a 1.6 G5 before a 1.8, but Apple does often surprise

[preslove]

If the iMac was only gonna get a g4 speed bump then it would have gotten it by now. The fact that it's taking so long suggests that they are doing something major that needs substantial engineering i.e. a g5 upgrade.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
The G5 is hot. And, it's hotter than the G4 that the iMac is designed to cool.

You should really read up on these chips, because it's quite clear that you don't know much about them.

The G5 1.4 970FX is actually MUCH COOLER than the G4 1.5 in current PowerBooks.

G4 1.5 max - 30 Watts at 1.3 V, or probably about 28 W at 1.25 V.
G5 1.4 typ - 12.3 Watts
G5 1.4 max ~ probably around 23 Watts
G5 1.8 max ~ depends on voltage, but probably around 30ish Watts for an iMac version

In other words, it's not unreasonable to expect to be able to use a G5 1.6-1.8 in an iMac. Ryan, about the only thing I agree with you about is that the new G5 iMacs will have a complete redesign. However, that redesign process would have started a long time ago, and is likely already finished. Thus, here are my predictions (for WWDC 2004):

20"
G5 1.8 GHz 970FX
600 MHz bus
Radeon 9600 Pro 64 MB
Single-channel DDR333 memory - 256 MB built-in
ATA100 7200 rpm 80 GB hard drive
SuperDrive 8X DVD+/-RW
Firewire 400
USB 2
Bluetooth option
802.11g option
Integrated speakers
$1949

17"
G5 1.8 GHz 970FX
600 MHz bus
Radeon 9600 Pro 64 MB
Single-channel DDR333 memory - 256 MB built-in
ATA100 7200 rpm 80 GB hard drive
SuperDrive 8X DVD+/-RW
Firewire 400
USB 2
Bluetooth option
802.11g option
Integrated speakers
$1599

15"
G5 1.4 GHz 970FX
467 MHz bus
GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 64 MB
Single-channel DDR333 memory - 256 MB built-in
ATA100 7200 rpm 80 GB hard drive
Combo Drive
Firewire 400
USB 2
Bluetooth option
802.11g option
Integrated speakers
$1149

[iDaver]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:


In other words, it's not unreasonable to expect to be able to use a G5 1.6-1.8 in an iMac. Ryan, about the only thing I agree with you about is that the new G5 iMacs will have a complete redesign. However that redesign process would have started a long time ago, and is likely already finished. Thus, here are my predictions (for WWDC 2004):

Sounds like a good prediction to me although I'd expect bigger hard drives in the 17" & 20". Maybe not since these are "consumer" machines.

[Simon]

Sounds like a guess most people here could agree with.

Only problem is that it requires Apple to manufacture two different and new boards. Apple (almost) never does this. Normally they redesign a board and then either give it to the whole line or, if the line has two different boards, the lower end model has the old board and the high end model gets the new board.

If you take Eug's guess and drop the 15" model all together you get rather likely specs. And no, Apple doesn't need it. The 15" screen shows no more resolution than any iBook's screen. The iBook is already cheaper and more compact. The eMac is a desktop and offers higher resolution at a lower price tag. Claiming Apple needs a G5 attached to a non-removable 15" TFT means really seeing a lot of sale in a very narrow market.

[Luca Rescigno]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
This is so ridiculous....

You guys do realize that there are purposes for Macs other than just competing with PCs, right? And, you do realize that the iMac is the bottom of the line Apple, right? And, you do realize that the G5 just came out, right? Put it all together folks....

1) The purpose of the Mac is to be sold, to make money for Apple. Obviously they'd like to sell in any way possible, and one of those ways is by appealing to people who would normally buy a PC. Otherwise they only have the Mac faithful to rely on for sales.

2) The iMac is not bottom of the line. Well, spec-wise it is, but no machine costing $1300-$2200 is "bottom of the line." That's midrange, and it should have midrange specs (i.e. dual G4 or single G5).

3) The G5 did not just come out, it has been out for about a year. Well, technically they've only been available for eight months, but they've been part of people's perception of Apple for almost a year.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Simon:
Sounds like a guess most people here could agree with.

Only problem is that it requires Apple to manufacture two different and new boards. Apple (almost) never does this. Normally they redesign a board and then either give it to the whole line or, if the line has two different boards, the lower end model has the old board and the high end model gets the new board.

If you take Eug's guess and drop the 15" model all together you get rather likely specs. And no, Apple doesn't need it. The 15" screen shows no more resolution than any iBook's screen. The iBook is already cheaper and more compact. The eMac is a desktop and offers higher resolution at a lower price tag. Claiming Apple needs a G5 attached to a non-removable 15" TFT means really seeing a lot of sale in a very narrow market.

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if they dropped the 15", but I'm thinking they'll keep it, purely for cost reasons.

15" LCD computers still sell well overall (although I agree many do prefer 17" screens). Not that this is necessarily representative, but I personally know of people who want a desktop Mac but want to spend less than $2000 Canadian including the RAM upgrade and sales tax, and they don't like the eMac. CAD$2000 is about US$1450, which is just over the price of the 15" iMac after all is said and done. (Some might upgrade to the 17", but the cost is very high comparatively.) And it'd make a nice educational unit for those who don't want CRT AIOs. In fact, I'd guess the 15" iMac market is signficantly bigger than the 20" iMac market.

Only problem is that it requires Apple to manufacture two different and new boards. Apple (almost) never does this. Normally they redesign a board and then either give it to the whole line or, if the line has two different boards, the lower end model has the old board and the high end model gets the new board.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are people suggesting a G4 low end and a G5 high end? I'm talking G5 across the board (no pun intended) and the 15", 17", and 20" would all use the same base motherboard, with spec differences of course. This is what's done for the Power Macs currently for example. (The 1.6 in fact uses the same motherboard as the dual 2.0, but down specs the busses, and doesn't add the PCI-X support, extra CPU connector, or extra memory slots.)

Now, if the GeForce FX 5200 Ultra requires a design change for the 15", Apple could just use a Radeon 9200 instead (assuming they aren't using daughter cards). IIRC, the 9200 and 9600 are interchangeable.

[Ryan Becker]

There will be no G5 iMac in 2004.

-Ryan

[preslove]

Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
There will be no G5 iMac in 2004.

-Ryan

This dude will not stop being a D!ck in 2004.

-Andrew

[Ryan Becker]

Originally posted by preslove:
This dude will not stop being a D!ck in 2004.

-Andrew

Call me what you want, I really don't care.

I'm the only one being realistic in this thread... everyone else is just dreaming.

-Ryan