[Weyland-Yutani]

This is primarily directed at you Mac-users who don't speak English as a primary language - unless you are using the OS in another language than English.

Apple has localized the Mac OS for quite a few languages but I am curious how many actually use this option. Do you use the OS in English even if it isn't your native toungue? If so, why? And if not, what language do you use the OS in?

I'll start!

English is not my native tounge and I use the Mac OS in Spanish. I feel comfortable with it and the technical terms aren't confusing in Spanish.

[tae667]

I use OS X in Finnish. Apple has translated OS X way better than Microsoft or Linux folks translated their products.

[TETENAL]

I don't see why anyone would prefer English when your native tongue is available.

[dlefebvre]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I don't see why anyone would prefer English when your native tongue is available.

To me, English is more adapted to computing than anything else. It's efficient, short and to the point. I find French version of OS to be anything but intuitive. Some translation are awkward at best and usually longer so the menus are more confusing. Using English apps with a French OS is sometimes weird. Maybe it makes more sense in France, but here in Quebec some of the translation don't cut it for me.

[OwlBoy]

Oh! I thought the poll was is "OS" was a word in another language for a second there...

-Owl

[paul w]

Ha! Even though I've worked on many a French OS over the last 8 years, my computer will ALWAYS be in English (my mother tongue). Period.

I agree that I really don't like the French translation of menu computer terms and menu items.

[Sarc]

I speak perfect English and Spanish, however I use my OS in English because 1) many apps don't have Spanish Localizations, and I don't want to have an hybrid GUI. 2) Computing is built around English, all the terms, parts, etc. Plus it makes much more sense to have the OS in English when you read some technology white paper, or a tech support page. 3) For practice purposes, so I don't loose it.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by dlefebvre

To me, English is more adapted to computing than anything else. It's efficient, short and to the point. I find French version of OS to be anything but intuitive. Some translation are awkward at best and usually longer so the menus are more confusing. Using English apps with a French OS is sometimes weird. Maybe it makes more sense in France, but here in Quebec some of the translation don't cut it for me.

French version
The French have quite a few problems with their localization, because 1 the terminology is very different and 2 French words often tend to be even longer than German ones sometimes ...

Unfortunately, many French seem to have a lot more trouble using English software (a friend of mine works for a well-known German software company and they presented software at the Apple Expo in Paris -- the French did like the software, but most of them said: oh, there's no French version ...).

[Goldfinger]

I use my OS in Dutch, I don't even notice the difference between Dutch or English apps really.
Sometimes I do change my OS to French or German or Italian or English or something else Just for fun.

[effgee]

English all the way - tried German (gave me the giggles), French (menus need a 30" widescreen monitor), plus I speak English at least 12 hours a day so anything else would feel odd. My Winbox however runs a (legal *gasp*) German version of WinXP Pro because clients frequently ask me stuff like "how do I open file XYZ you sent me?". In that case it's kinda useful to not have to translate everything in your head first. And - overall, German goes very nicely with Windows XP - a bit rigid, not too flexible and kinda harsh.

[Scifience]

English is my native language, but I use OS X in Japanese simply because I am still working on learning it, and looking at it all day helps to make it stick in my head better.

[historylme]

Originally Posted by Sarc

I speak perfect English and Spanish, however I use my OS in English because 1) many apps don't have Spanish Localizations, and I don't want to have an hybrid GUI. 2) Computing is built around English, all the terms, parts, etc. Plus it makes much more sense to have the OS in English when you read some technology white paper, or a tech support page. 3) For practice purposes, so I don't loose it.

I feel the same.

[Psychonaut]

I too am a native English speaker, but in customizing my new PowerBook, I went so far as to order it installed with a Western Spanish keyboard. It hasn't been all that hard in getting used to, since I've used computers in the Dominican Republic before. The Spanish translation of menu items (etc.) can be lengthy, but it certainly helps for someone studying the language. (If only it was easier to switch back and forth between Spanish, Italian, German, and Arabic, then I'd be set.)

Edit: Oh, and when I type in English (which is most of the time) it makes it really difficult to spell check since it will use a Spanish dictionary set by default. So that sucks. Anyone know how to change that?

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by effgee

English all the way - tried German (gave me the giggles), French (menus need a 30" widescreen monitor), plus I speak English at least 12 hours a day so anything else would feel odd. My Winbox however runs a (legal *gasp*) German version of WinXP Pro because clients frequently ask me stuff like "how do I open file XYZ you sent me?". In that case it's kinda useful to not have to translate everything in your head first. And - overall, German goes very nicely with Windows XP - a bit rigid, not too flexible and kinda harsh.

What was so funny about the German version?

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Psychonaut

Edit: Oh, and when I type in English (which is most of the time) it makes it really difficult to spell check since it will use a Spanish dictionary set by default. So that sucks. Anyone know how to change that?

Right-click in a text field such as a reply field in this forum, choose Ortografía and from the submenu choose Ortografía... and then a floating window opens. In a pulldown menu choose Inglés instead of Español.



cheers

W-Y

[OreoCookie]

There's also Multilingual available. Obviously it won't catch things that are written differently in two languages, e. g. colour vs. color.

[turtle777]

You forgot the MOST likely choice:

* English is my native language and I also use English

What else is an native English speaker supposed to click if he uses English ?

-t

[Chuckit]

As stated in the first post: nothing. This poll is for foreigners and English-speakers using another localization.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

I don't see why anyone would prefer English when your native tongue is available.

One reason would be that there's been a few cases I read about where programs will not work correctly if using some foreign language OS.

I'm multilingual and type in a few different languages, but my install OS is American (the original).

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by PacHead

One reason would be that there's been a few cases I read about where programs will not work correctly if using some foreign language OS.

I'm multilingual and type in a few different languages, but my install OS is American (the original).

That's Windows. For instance French characters are converted to kanji which is nothing too serious if you're just talking about your mp3 collection. The other way around was worse, the Japanese anti-virus program was practically unusable (every character was substituted by a square) ...

I've never had problems on OS X ...

[effgee]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

What was so funny about the German version?

I don't remember the exact wording (only language installed on my machines is US English) but there were some rather odd/whacky translations in System Preferences (Panther), for example (Network prefs, IIRC) - I'll look them up over the weekend after I took a peek at my Dad's B&W G3.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by dlefebvre

To me, English is more adapted to computing than anything else. It's efficient, short and to the point.

Fine, but of what use is that if you don't understand it? I'll take a 20% longer word that I understand over an English one any time.

Originally Posted by PacHead

One reason would be that there's been a few cases I read about where programs will not work correctly if using some foreign language OS.

Luckily Mac OS X' multi-language capabilities are excellent and things like this practically don't happen.

[Judge_Fire]

I use English.

I started out before localisations existed and even today, many pieces of software don't have Finnish localisations, resulting in stupid context switches.

Besides, the Finnish terminology is IMHO really artificial. I encounter the English language terminology in both spoken Finnish and of course much of the online materials, like, umm, here.

I am biased however, as my job is at an international university department, where we operate in English anyway, as to accommodate the high percentage of international students.

Still, Finland is one of these Nordic countries, where TV is NOT dubbed, English is spoken widely and I've honestly seen more people use the English UI than the Finnish, regardless of their background.

J

[olePigeon]

I have a question for non-English speakers. What's the "o" and "O" in "Mo," "MO," "Ko," and "KO" stand for? In English we use "b" for "bits" and "B" for "bytes" like "kb" and "KB."

[olePigeon]

Google's my friend. It means "octet."

[Oisín]

I've set up different users with different languages. Normally, I use Danish, just because I've always been used to having Windows in Danish and it doesn't feel weird for me to have it in Danish - after all, when I talk about computers 'n stuff, I normally do it in Danish, and I think it adapts quite well, probably because we retain so many of the English words and make up so few for ourselves. Although some of the translations in OS X do seem rather odd. That might just be because I'm used to Windows; I still think 'Vis' (Show/View) is a more descriptive word to use for the third menu from the left than 'Oversigt' (overview, survey, list, summary, general overview), but I don't think about it much.

As Goldfinger, I don't even notice if I switch to a non-localised program, though; whether it's in Danish or English makes absolutely no difference for me. The only contexts where it might make a difference would be programs like Photoshop, where I wouldn't be able to understand quite a few of the more specialised options in Danish (not that I understand them fully in English, but I think I have a better overall understand them in English than I would in Danish).

However, just for those times where I need to know the names of some particular menu points, etc., in another language, I've set up users that have everything in English, Chinese, Swedish, French, Spanish, and Norwegian (yeah, I'm digging fast user-switching). I've only used them a few times, but it's an easy way to add an extra bit of functionality for me.

olePigeon: Just for clarification (since you just asked 'non-English speakers'), Ko, Mo, Go, etc. are only used in French. As far as I know, French is the only language that doesn't use KB, MB, GB, etc. It always looked silly to me: if it says XXX Ko, I always think of cows (ko = cow in Danish), and that it should be Køer (plural form); and if it says XXX Go, I always think either of going somewhere, or of Japanese games.

[olePigeon]

Ku is cow in German. Kuli Ku means Cool Cow. Sounds funny in German.

What's Cool Cow in Danish?

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Ku is cow in German. Kuli Ku means Cool Cow. Sounds funny in German.

What's Cool Cow in Danish?

Haha, kule Ku, never thought of that! (I thought it was Kuh, though?)

In Danish: Cool ko - or kølig ko, if you mean cool in the literal, temperature-related sense...

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Haha, kule Ku, never thought of that! (I thought it was Kuh, though?)

In Danish: Cool ko - or kølig ko, if you mean cool in the literal, temperature-related sense...

It is "Kuh." And "Cool Cow" is actually "kuehle Kuh" (you can replace the ue with an umlauted "u"... I'm on my Windows Box at work and don't want to bother looking up how to type a u-umlaut).

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Person Man

It is "Kuh." And "Cool Cow" is actually "kuehle Kuh" (you can replace the ue with an umlauted "u"... I'm on my Windows Box at work and don't want to bother looking up how to type a u-umlaut).

But only if you're actually talking about a cow that's sort of cold, right? If it's just a cool cow, it would still be coole Kuh, right? (I don't know, my German sucks; I'm just guessing, basically)

Well, the Germans I know would probably say either “krasse Kuh” or “geile Kuh” (grammar? spelling?), anyway...

[olePigeon]

I was trying to spell it phonetically. Been about 10 years since I've used any German.

Still funny.

[wataru]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

That's Windows. For instance French characters are converted to kanji which is nothing too serious if you're just talking about your mp3 collection. The other way around was worse, the Japanese anti-virus program was practically unusable (every character was substituted by a square) ...

I've never had problems on OS X ...

I occasionally run into bugs, especially in AppleScript, that prevent apps from working when OS X is in Japanese. This may be fixed in Tiger, but every once in a while there are also examples like LaTeX Equation Editor.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by wataru

I occasionally run into bugs, especially in AppleScript, that prevent apps from working when OS X is in Japanese. This may be fixed in Tiger, but every once in a while there are also examples like LaTeX Equation Editor.

Hmmm, I see. I have never used OS X primarily in Japanese, so I guess Western languages cause less problems ...

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Oisín

As Goldfinger, I don't even notice if I switch to a non-localised program, though; whether it's in Danish or English makes absolutely no difference for me. The only contexts where it might make a difference would be programs like Photoshop, where I wouldn't be able to understand quite a few of the more specialised options in Danish (not that I understand them fully in English, but I think I have a better overall understand them in English than I would in Danish).

The weird thing is. I have this job that I have to earn some extra money and I use a Win2K computer in English there but I hadn't even noticed that the thing was set in English ! And I've been working there for about a month now. Last week I said to myself: "hmm that's weird, there seems to be something with the Dutch on this computer, oh no wait ! It's in English!"

I guess that's one of the advantages of growing up in a multilingual environment. (Dutch, French and English for me, and a bit of German, I'm sad that my German isn't all that good) Altough I must admit that working on a French OS is weird sometimes since the terminology is quite strange sometimes.

I learned a lot of Enlish by watching tv since I was very little. We don't do dubbing here in Belgium. Subtitles all the way. Dubbing should be forbidden, movies and tv are such a good way to learn other languages IMO.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

I learned a lot of Enlish by watching tv since I was very little. We don't do dubbing here in Belgium. Subtitles all the way. Dubbing should be forbidden, movies and tv are such a good way to learn other languages IMO.

Totally agree. Plus, it's a good way of learning to be a (fairly) fast reader in your own language. Even if it's an English show (or a Danish one), I can't help but read the subtitles. Of course, if it's an Iraqi movie or something similar, I have only the subtitles to lean on. But they don't show that many Iraqi movies here...

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Totally agree. Plus, it's a good way of learning to be a (fairly) fast reader in your own language. Even if it's an English show (or a Danish one), I can't help but read the subtitles. Of course, if it's an Iraqi movie or something similar, I have only the subtitles to lean on. But they don't show that many Iraqi movies here...

When I'm in Greece I read all the Greek subtitles even when watching the same American TV shows I watch at home... great way to pick up vocabulary in Greek.

The only dubbing they do is with Spanish and Mexican soap operas. Those are (very poorly) dubbed into Greek, and the reason is that a small but significant percentage of their target audience can't read very well (from the 1930s-1950s in many poor villages, many girls were pulled out of school after 1st or 2nd grade to help out at home). They dub (with much better quality) most cartoon shows aimed at little children, too (for obvious reasons).

The last time I was in Greece, I saw a French movie on TV in the village tavern. Since I don't speak French I had to rely entirely on the Greek subtitles. Amazingly I could understand most of it, but it sure gave me a big headache. Plus I had to deal with all the older folks constantly asking me if I could understand the spoken words because they thought it was in English (despite my telling them repeatedly that it was French).

[Sealobo]

my native language is traditional chinese but i prefer using an english interface anyway. this is because chinese script is more comfortable to read from top-down and then right-to-left.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Sealobo

my native language is traditional chinese but i prefer using an english interface anyway. this is because chinese script is more comfortable to read from top-down and then right-to-left.

Just turn your screen/machine 90º to the right, then you can read it the traditional way

I often think the anti-aliasing of the fonts makes especially traditional characters quite hard to read. It's easier with simplified, obviously, since they tend to have less strokes. But I still think characters are best on paper.

[wataru]

I disagree. For complicated Hanzi, no antialiasing means missing out on entire strokes sometimes. Even back in OS 9, Osaka (the default Japanese font) was always antialiased throughout the whole system, even where other fonts weren't. If it hadn't been antialiased, it would have been illegible at all but very large sizes.

[Oisín]

I don't think I expressed myself very clearly...

Completely un-anti-aliased characters will of course be very hard to read (as they are in Windows if you don't turn on anti-aliasing). What I meant to say was that, unless we're talking quite large sizes, characters tend to be a trial for the eyes on computers, anti-aliased or not. In my opinion, characters just are not well-suited for computer screens.

[SimpleLife]

Originally Posted by dlefebvre

To me, English is more adapted to computing than anything else. It's efficient, short and to the point. I find French version of OS to be anything but intuitive. Some translation are awkward at best and usually longer so the menus are more confusing. Using English apps with a French OS is sometimes weird. Maybe it makes more sense in France, but here in Quebec some of the translation don't cut it for me.

I agree.

Also, most available software is in English, so it becomes bothersome for me to see both languages at the same time.

[wataru]

Originally Posted by Oisín

I don't think I expressed myself very clearly...

Completely un-anti-aliased characters will of course be very hard to read (as they are in Windows if you don't turn on anti-aliasing). What I meant to say was that, unless we're talking quite large sizes, characters tend to be a trial for the eyes on computers, anti-aliased or not. In my opinion, characters just are not well-suited for computer screens.

I don't think they're that bad with antialiasing. Really, though, the issue is that screens' DPI is too small. If (when?) they approach or exceed that of paper, the issue will be moot.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Ku is cow in German. Kuli Ku means Cool Cow. Sounds funny in German.

Only in theory.

Cow is spelled KUH, and I have never heard kuli to mean cool in German. German language took over the English cool and uses it as if it were a native German word.

-t

[Buckaroo]

Oops, strike my vote.

[MacManMikeOSX]

It's like pulling teeth to get Hebrew or Arabic support for anything, so English is my compromise language.

[darcybaston]

how do I get the bash shell into french?

[OreoCookie]

There is no localized version for the unix underpinnings. English is the standard there, and other countries will have to get used to it.

Some other OS have localized shell environments, e. g. Linux or FreeBSD.

[Sven G]

I always use Mac OS X (and Windows, Linux, etc.) in Italian, whenever possible.

À propos, talking about Windows, it's very interesting how the French translate their Start button/menu, like here (see also here, for a more detailed view).

That's a good way of doing things, in one's original language, IMHO: not like in Italy (and probably other countries, too: see the German "Denglish", for example), where the Start menu indeed was "Avvio" in Windows 95, but afterwards, strangely, became "Start" in subsequent versions (IE4+, if I'm not mistaken): the French might be a little exaggerated, sometimes, but at least they always try to properly translate everything in their language - which doesn't always happen, in other countries, sadly...

P.S.: Another, related example of a good, native translation of a concept is the Swedish dator, which is similar to the French ordinateur - alias computer, of course. But most languages simply use "computer", without even trying to translate it - strange. Anyway, it's always better to use native languages, rather than Macaronic English, isn't it (a rather funny advertisement, at least, the last one)...?

[Mastrap]

I tried German once, when I was in Germany, just for shits and giggles. Switched back after ten minutes. Terrible language for an OS.