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MacOS Mojave.
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Chongo
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Jun 4, 2018, 05:05 PM
 
macOS Mojave was announced today. I watched most of the the presentation. I must have missed the part where it was announced that apfs was coming to Fusion drives. It was mention near the end. Did anyone else catch if apfs support is coming?
( Last edited by Chongo; Jun 4, 2018 at 10:46 PM. )
     
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Jun 4, 2018, 05:21 PM
 
Yes, I remember hearing that.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Chongo  (op)
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Jun 4, 2018, 05:55 PM
 
Odd that Fusion Drive APFS support is not mentioned in the press release or on the preview page.
     
reader50
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Jun 4, 2018, 06:23 PM
 
Not a lot that interests me so far in Mojave. Dark Mode and APFS updates. APFS for fusion is a good step. But it was promised already for High Sierra. A point on screen reads "Improved hard drive performance" -- as Apple is pushing APFS, they must have improved the performance on HDs. That sounds encouraging, but they don't supply a percentage.

I'd be very interested in Apple publishing the full APFS low-level documentation. Without that, all the 3rd party utilities are stalled. And even Linux can't add an APFS driver. Because APFS is undocumented outside of Apple.
     
And.reg
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Jun 4, 2018, 07:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
MacOS Mojave was announced today. I watched most of the the presentation. I must have missed the part where it was announced that apfs was coming to Fusion drives. It was mention near the end. Did anyone else catch if apfs support is coming?
It was distinctly in the bottom right on that background slide with that array of other features that they didn't have time to cover toward the end.
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turtle777
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Jun 4, 2018, 07:50 PM
 
I’m still on Sierra.
First time since 10.0 that I didn’t ’t update immediately. Have all the bugs in High Sierra finally been squashed ?

Perhaps I’ll go straight from Sierra to Mojave.

-t
     
And.reg
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Jun 4, 2018, 08:08 PM
 
Dark Mode...
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Chongo  (op)
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Jun 4, 2018, 08:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by And.reg View Post
It was distinctly in the bottom right on that background slide with that array of other features that they didn't have time to cover toward the end.
     
subego
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Jun 4, 2018, 09:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
I’m still on Sierra.
First time since 10.0 that I didn’t ’t update immediately. Have all the bugs in High Sierra finally been squashed ?

Perhaps I’ll go straight from Sierra to Mojave.

-t
I updated recentishly... I’m not noticing any difference.
     
mindwaves
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Jun 4, 2018, 09:56 PM
 
It is macOS now, not MacOS. Looking forward to the dark mode, but I doubt that I would use it, but I will give it a try. The new security benefits including limiting trackers is good. Maybe it will have me delete my Safari tracking extensions finally. The new Finder is good with the ability to preview metadata along with a large picture of the file is good, ala Explorer in Windows before. However, the ability to rotate files and annotate files within the Finder is nice. Sometimes my pictures get rotated somehow and I need to rotate them back.

Continuity Camera on Mac is a huge benefit. Taking a picture and immediately using it without using AirDrop is very useful.
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Chongo  (op)
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Jun 4, 2018, 10:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
It is macOS now, not MacOS. Looking forward to the dark mode, but I doubt that I would use it, but I will give it a try. The new security benefits including limiting trackers is good. Maybe it will have me delete my Safari tracking extensions finally. The new Finder is good with the ability to preview metadata along with a large picture of the file is good, ala Explorer in Windows before. However, the ability to rotate files and annotate files within the Finder is nice. Sometimes my pictures get rotated somehow and I need to rotate them back.

Continuity Camera on Mac is a huge benefit. Taking a picture and immediately using it without using AirDrop is very useful.
The OP was on my iPad, auto capitalize ya know. I did not catch it before I posted.
     
turtle777
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Jun 4, 2018, 11:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I updated recentishly... I’m not noticing any difference.
LOL, you’re not helping... Apple.

I might as well stick with Sierra 😊

-t
     
subego
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Jun 4, 2018, 11:32 PM
 
Well, it didn’t break anything.
     
mindwaves
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Jun 4, 2018, 11:41 PM
 
For iOS, one of the biggest and most useful news is the Mac-Automator related actions for iOS. You can say "Hey Siri, going home," for example and have the air conditioner turn on, play music, and map the route back home.
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subego
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Jun 5, 2018, 12:24 AM
 
“Would you like me to search the web for ‘going home’?”
     
turtle777
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Jun 5, 2018, 12:29 AM
 


-t
     
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Jun 5, 2018, 08:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I'd be very interested in Apple publishing the full APFS low-level documentation. Without that, all the 3rd party utilities are stalled. And even Linux can't add an APFS driver. Because APFS is undocumented outside of Apple.
They've published the source code. I can understand that Linux would have issues with that (they can't clean room it if the only documentation is the source) but a 3rd party utility can certainly look at the code.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
And.reg
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Jun 5, 2018, 10:26 AM
 
Hey serious question concerning Quicktime 7 Pro.

So, I still use Quicktime 7 Pro to stitch videos together or occasionally remove the audio track in the file, or export just the audio only to AIFF, and then save the file. I use Quicktime 7 Pro to do all of this because it's super fast and all and doesn't require reprocessing the video. But, if macOS Mojave drops support for 32-bit apps, then I would lose Quicktime 7 Pro, so, what app could I substitute it with that has these basic features?

Edit: Nevermind, macOS Mojave will still support legacy 32-bit apps:
https://www.macrumors.com/2018/06/05...t-32-bit-apps/
( Last edited by And.reg; Jun 5, 2018 at 01:03 PM. )
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CharlesS
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Jun 5, 2018, 11:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
They've published the source code. I can understand that Linux would have issues with that (they can't clean room it if the only documentation is the source) but a 3rd party utility can certainly look at the code.
They have? Can you post a link?

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Jun 5, 2018, 03:49 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
The new Finder is good with the ability to preview metadata along with a large picture of the file is good,
Although I'd settle for a Finder that didn't take 8 and a half minutes to populate a window with a list of my applications.
This space for Hire! Reasonable rates. Reach an audience of literally dozens!
     
Chongo  (op)
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Jun 5, 2018, 05:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I updated recentishly... I’m not noticing any difference.
Flash, fusion, or HDD?
     
subego
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Jun 5, 2018, 06:02 PM
 
Flash.
     
Chongo  (op)
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Jun 5, 2018, 09:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
I updated recentishly... I’m not noticing any difference.
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Flash, fusion, or HDD?
Originally Posted by subego View Post
Flash.
Hmmm. I have a 3TB Fusion Drive.

What is supposed to be the benefit of APFS over HFS+?
     
Thorzdad
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Jun 6, 2018, 03:20 PM
 
It looks like Open GL and Open CL will be deprecated in Mojave, with Apple pushing developers to adopt Metal.
It also appears that, other than older Mac Pros that support Metal, Mojave will not support any Mac made before 2012.
Per Ars Technica.
     
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Jun 6, 2018, 06:45 PM
 
This may be the excuse MS needs to start dropping support for Java Minecraft ports.
     
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Jun 7, 2018, 07:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
They have? Can you post a link?
https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu

It is supposed to be the entire kernel, which should include APFS source.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jun 7, 2018, 07:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by Thorzdad View Post
It looks like Open GL and Open CL will be deprecated in Mojave, with Apple pushing developers to adopt Metal.
It also appears that, other than older Mac Pros that support Metal, Mojave will not support any Mac made before 2012.
Per Ars Technica.
They killed a whole bunch of iMacs at once, there. It seems that Quartz will run only on Metal from now on, so any Mac on Mojave needs to support that.

OpenGL is indeed deprecated, but remains supported for now. It would be possible to make another OpenGL implementation and run on top of Metal, or on bare metal, but only on the Mac. No such tricks for iOS.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
BLAZE_MkIV
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Jun 7, 2018, 08:15 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
They've published the source code. I can understand that Linux would have issues with that (they can't clean room it if the only documentation is the source) but a 3rd party utility can certainly look at the code.
It just means you need to have one person produce a spec of the API from the code and a second person re-implement it.
     
CharlesS
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Jun 7, 2018, 11:27 AM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu

It is supposed to be the entire kernel, which should include APFS source.
I don't think it is, though. The filesystems on Darwin are plugins, not part of the kernel itself. That Github repo appears to be just a mirror of this package:

https://opensource.apple.com/source/xnu/xnu-4570.41.2/

However, the HFS sources (for example) are in a different package:

https://opensource.apple.com/source/hfs/hfs-407.30.1/

If I poke through the HFS sources, pick a filename, and then search the Github repo for it, it's not there:

https://github.com/apple/darwin-xnu/...trlist.c&type=

So I think the APFS sources are still not available. Thanks for getting my hopes up

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Jun 7, 2018, 11:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
I don't think it is, though. The filesystems on Darwin are plugins, not part of the kernel itself.
I thought that the root-and-boot file systems were not plugins but included in the kernel? Maybe that changed, it's not like I've been following kernel development.

So I think the APFS sources are still not available. Thanks for getting my hopes up
Sorry! There are at least two Linux plugins out there, though, so some people have figured out at least the fundaments of the format.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
CharlesS
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Jun 7, 2018, 03:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Sorry! There are at least two Linux plugins out there, though, so some people have figured out at least the fundaments of the format.
Yeah, and I've read some of those papers, but there are still a lot of question marks that will be cleared up if and when Apple releases the official spec. I'm curious as heck as to how some things work, so I wish they'd hurry up and release that spec already

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Jun 8, 2018, 04:46 AM
 
Love the dark mode, dynamic stacks and desktop
     
mindwaves
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Jun 8, 2018, 10:10 AM
 
Looking forward to this release as High Sierra didn't really have anything. Will use stocks and news app and maybe control center once I buy a house. Hope that the Mac App Store has more of a selection as Chrome, Firefox, Skype, and others are MIA. Stacks may be nice, but I hope that it is customizable such as stack all pictures modified today. The ability to run automator actions and combine multiple file types within the Finder will be nice, as I work in an environment with a lot of PDFs.
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Jun 9, 2018, 05:40 PM
 
Well this changes some of my plans radically. I was saving up (and girding myself) for the parts and time to upgrade my 2007 iMac's processor - and go to an SSD while I was at it - so it would run a newer OS. It sounds like that's out the window now, at least in terms of using "the latest" OS...

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Jun 9, 2018, 06:09 PM
 
I did a 2007 iMac CPU upgrade for a relative. It took awhile, but the iFixit instructions were clear. No issues along the way, and HS worked fine after. Using the macrumors hacks to install. Bonus speedup, as the new CPU was both a later version, and a higher clock speed.

As to needing a Metal-compatible GPU, MacVidCards has decided to flash replacement MXM cards for iMacs.
     
CharlesS
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Jun 9, 2018, 07:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by mindwaves View Post
Looking forward to this release as High Sierra didn't really have anything.
You mean other than that new, redesigned file system that we'd been eagerly awaiting for like 15 years?

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mindwaves
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Jun 10, 2018, 09:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
You mean other than that new, redesigned file system that we'd been eagerly awaiting for like 15 years?
Sorry, I mean nothing visually new (to me).
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Jun 11, 2018, 05:34 AM
 
Well, you want a file system to be boring. And so far I have to say, that there were zero stories about APFS problems on a large scale — and Apple switched file systems on a billion devices! That's an impressive feat that they should get more credit for.

To be honest, I was hoping that Apple would release a new APFS-based Time Machine, but alas, no luck this year I am still hopeful that they will add user data checksumming, at least on mac OS. Technically, it is possible … 
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reader50
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Jun 11, 2018, 11:38 AM
 
++ to file checksums.

Not only are they possible, 3rd parties could probably add them. If the APFS documentation were released. It's tempting to think Apple is withholding the docs to kill off 3rd party utilities. But it's most likely so they can still change things around.
     
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Jun 11, 2018, 01:23 PM
 
Why would Apple want to kill off third party utilities?

They initially committed to releasing docs of APFS during 2017, but apparently failed on that. Perhaps they ran into more problems with it (which might also be why the Fusion drive support was late).
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
reader50
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Jun 11, 2018, 02:39 PM
 
Whether or not Apple wants to kill off 3rd party utilities, that is happening. The lack of APFS docs, SIP without workarounds for developers, and locking down the restore image (which is used by 3rd parties as a basis of bootable utility media).

According to Coriolis's post, Apple used to work with devs before implementing core changes. But they didn't bother for all of the above issues. Just left 3rd party utility devs hanging. Three times in a row. It would be easy to see a pattern here.
     
CharlesS
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Jun 12, 2018, 02:38 AM
 
The APFS documents do claim that Apple plans to release the specification at some future date. Fingers crossed.

I do notice that TechTool Pro has added the ability to rebuild APFS volumes, which means that either Apple has private shared the docs with certain developers, or MicroMat is doing something terrifying.

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Jun 12, 2018, 03:38 AM
 
Given the relationship between MicroMat and Apple*, I don't think it is out of the question that Apple has shared some information here.

* For a while a copy of TechTool Pro was included when you bought AppleCare.
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Jun 12, 2018, 05:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
* For a while a copy of TechTool Pro was included when you bought AppleCare.
ObNitpick, but since it supports your point: It wasn't TechTool Pro, but a special version called TechTool Deluxe. Apple apparently sourced MicroMat to make a special tool that they handed out with AppleCare. I'm sure it shares a lot of code with TechTool Pro, but it implies an even closer relationship between Apple and MicroMat than Apple cutting them a check.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jun 12, 2018, 06:05 AM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
Whether or not Apple wants to kill off 3rd party utilities, that is happening. The lack of APFS docs, SIP without workarounds for developers, and locking down the restore image (which is used by 3rd parties as a basis of bootable utility media).

According to Coriolis's post, Apple used to work with devs before implementing core changes. But they didn't bother for all of the above issues. Just left 3rd party utility devs hanging. Three times in a row. It would be easy to see a pattern here.
SIP is another thing, and it (together with the Mac App Store sandboxing rules) is killing some useful tools, but APFS killing those two tools? Defragmentation makes no sense on flash drives, the only thing APFS supports, and really made precious little sense before that. What did iPartition do that Disk Utility didn't, and didn't CoreStorage already kill off that tool? The file system shouldn't really do anything to a partition manager, but I can well see an LVM changing things.

I can well see Apple killing some tools with their actions, but they're doing it by being a bull in a china shop, not by malicious intent. They probably don't see the need for these tools (if you know something about their history, this is more than understandable - defragmentation became a thing because of DOS and its reliance on FAT, a file system without a free space bitmap) and see them as collateral damage.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jun 12, 2018, 05:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by reader50 View Post
I did a 2007 iMac CPU upgrade for a relative. It took awhile, but the iFixit instructions were clear. No issues along the way, and HS worked fine after. Using the macrumors hacks to install. Bonus speedup, as the new CPU was both a later version, and a higher clock speed.

As to needing a Metal-compatible GPU, MacVidCards has decided to flash replacement MXM cards for iMacs.
That sounds hopeful. Perusing the iFixit instructions, it looks kind of lengthy - you basically completely disassemble the machine to get at the CPU - but not terribly complex. Along the way, upgrading the hard drive would be trivial.

It does look like a replacement video card would be needed if I wanted to go past HS. That's getting into more complex territory by itself, but if I can swap the CPU, I guess that would be fairly easy...

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Jun 12, 2018, 06:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
Perusing the iFixit instructions, it looks kind of lengthy - you basically completely disassemble the machine to get at the CPU - but not terribly complex. Along the way, upgrading the hard drive would be trivial.
This is an accurate description. I did change the HD, and the AirPort card along the way. Plus a RAM upgrade.

The replacement T9300 (2.5GHz) Socket-P CPU is cheap. You can get it for about $15 if you're willing to wait on shipping from Asia. You do need to change the AirPort card too, as HS dropped the drivers for the old AirPort card. (ethernet port still works).

Search eBay for "BCM94322MC" and you can get one for $9 delivered. That's an N300 part, same performance as the one you have. If you need an 802.11ac card, you'll have to research it further.
     
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Jun 13, 2018, 01:04 AM
 
Dark Mode is sweet, but not sweet enough for me to buy a new MBP.
     
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Jun 13, 2018, 08:40 AM
 
Mojave confirmed to be the very last version to support 32-bit apps.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Jun 13, 2018, 12:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Mojave confirmed to be the very last version to support 32-bit apps.
High Chaparral disabled the Amazon freebie 32 bit Final Cut I have. (10.1.4) My brother made a qualifying purchase on Amazon that gave him a free download. He knew I had an iMac so he choose Final Cut. I'm going to have to squirrel away some pennies and upgrade due to the fact I have several home videos saved with that version of FC.
     
 
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