Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Neo-Progressivism is a cancer within our society

Neo-Progressivism is a cancer within our society (Page 8)
Thread Tools
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Nov 20, 2015, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
Yeah, you hang out with Day-Day and Smokey doing a blunt and hoping Debo doesn't show up.
You know that was actually pretty funny.

OAW
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:47 AM
 
The disappointment I feel over this fevered indoctrination is overwhelming. WTF is wrong with these people, they're just little boys!

Most males do not hurt females or other males, or even dogs and cats. Yet they’re all treated as potential perpetrators, and our boys feel the weight of this prejudice.

Here was my son’s takeaway from the assembly: “Men are just monsters that society needs to put in little cages.”
Men are not monsters | Fox News
( Last edited by Cap'n Tightpants; Nov 21, 2015 at 03:08 AM. )
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:57 AM
 
This one is worse, though, IMO.

Kindergarten Teacher Will Let Boys Play With Legos ‘When Hell Freezes Over’ to Promote Gender Equality | MRCTV

Let's hold back the mental development of preschool boys, just to promote what she feels is gender equality, and then makes it worse by repeatedly lying to these little boys:

A kindergarten teacher in Bainbridge Island, Washington, has banned boys from playing with Legos as part of the fight for gender equality.

The Bainbridge Island Review reports Captain Johnston Blakely Elementary School kindergarten teacher Karen Keller intentionally excludes boys from playing with Lego building blocks. Allegedly, this is in attempt to help girls.

Keller told the Bainbridge Island Review, “I always tell the boys, ‘You’re going to have a turn’ — and I’m like, ‘Yeah, when hell freezes over’ in my head. I tell them, ‘You’ll have a turn’ because I don’t want them to feel bad.”

According to Keller, playing with building blocks like Legos helps children develop spatial and math skills. Girls, therefore, are at a disadvantage in developing those skills because Legos are not marketed towards girls.

In order to remedy this disparity, Keller originally tried to entice girls to play with Legos by offering them in girly colors, pink and purple. When the girls were not interested in playing with the toys — but the boys were — Keller decided to ban boys from playing with the Legos entirely.

Keller purchased LEGO Education Community Starter Kits for three classrooms. She justified the decision by saying, “While it’s not necessary to board up the playhouse and adopt the babies out, concrete steps can be taken to ameliorate the gender gap in the kindergarten and present engaging ways to develop girls’ spatial skills.”
My disgust for these people is growing by the day.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 11:50 AM
 
What is this thread about now?

Some weird people doing some weird things which Tightpants thinks is a movement because of the friends he has that he feels are a representative sample?

The difference between this population and the Christian lobby that Tightpants wants to compare them to is that the Christian lobby was/is a lobby. What power does the woman who thinks that Lego is not equal to both genders have?

This stuff isn't a movement, nor is it something new, it is a continuum of society reinventing itself socially to correct for past racism, bigotry against gays, legitimate gender inequality, and past injustices. Along the way there are over compensations and under compensations, but that's just a byproduct of this change and discovery of who we are as a society and what values we share.

If the Internet existed during times of slavery and you could go back in a time machine I'm sure you'd find similar conversations and debates consisting of people looking for that sweet spot of fairness, equality, and peace.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 11:57 AM
 
To me a movement isn't a population that perhaps wins a few court cases, perhaps leads to some bigger court cases and moves the legal needle, it is changing the fabric of the people that decide on the outcomes of these court cases by using their influence of power/money.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What is this thread about now?
For pointing out how neo-progressive ideology is shit. You've tried to do this already:

I don't see the point of this thread.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 12:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
What is this thread about now?
The through-line is bad and/or misapplied sociology theory. Often resulting free speech implications.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 12:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's the same scenario when he was "cornered" regarding his opinion WRT "systematic oppression". That wasn't a real attempt at communication either, just another racially-charged hate mob. He tried to speak and was promptly shouted down (see the famous Bernie Sanders speech video for another example).
It's hard for me to make this call, because Wolfe's answer was completely off the mark, and was delivered with a heaping handful of condescension.

If Wolfe responded to this question the way Sanders would have, and then got shouted down? That would demonstrate your claim. I can't make the jump using an example where the person in question is being dismissive the way Wolfe was.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 12:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
For pointing out how neo-progressive ideology is shit. You've tried to do this already:




I guess it originally started as about progressivism, then it became about something to do with universities, and now you've found or made up a label that you seem content with. But why is this 8 pages worthy? I guess it gives BadKosh something to froth about, and something to keep you and OAW energized, but really, what's the big deal?

People pushing the needle in terms of what sort of prejudice, inequality, and essentially cohabitation with other human beings is deemed acceptable or unacceptable is good for society. Slavery didn't end because some people just got tired of owning slaves, it ended because we as a society decided that we were going to end this. There are still many injustices in the world. There are and always will be over and under-compensations to correct these injustices, this is nothing new.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
No, the most hilarious thing is that you believe I was talking about race, and you're still trying to push that it's about race, and you'll ALWAYS think of it as about race. The article is about fluffy bunnies in college being upset that someone who is part of their school's faculty dared bring up that they should be mindful of other people's beliefs and opinions too, that it isn't a one-way street. Then, to show how incredibly open-minded and tolerant she was, a girl started screaming and cursing at a member of the faculty for implying that students should even hear any other perspectives, to the approval of all her cohorts standing around her.

How did this come to be? Well, I'll tell you. They're being taught:

- "Safe Spaces" are more important than getting an education (they won't be prepared for the private sector)
- that feelings mean more than knowledge (they'll be grossly ignorant to what anyone outside their echo chamber thinks)
- and the most damning thing of all, that their perception of the world is the only one that matters

All of that in an environment that never challenges them. Behold the over-privileged, intolerant, "special", little monsters we're creating, gods help us all when they come into power.
Free speech is so last century. Today’s students want the ‘right to be comfortable’ » The Spectator
The pinnacle of this bullshit: https://pjmedia.com/trending/2015/11...y-white-people

Take the case of this poor, wilting flower. Nissy Aya is now in her fifth year of undergraduate study at Columbia University. She was supposed to graduate last year with the rest of her class, but finds herself -- totally not her fault -- on track to graduate next year.

Ms. Aya says that she has experienced much angst and anguish while taking Columbia's Core courses, studying the greatest, the most powerful, the most tolerant civilization in the history of the human race -- Western civilization. It seems that Ms. Aya has feelings of inadequacy when reading all these books by dead white males.
I don't even... WTF?!? I do see one of the major issues here. 6 years for a 4 year degree? At Columbia? I'll bet her GPA is amazing.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:06 PM
 
The thing that has been drawing me to this thread a little is actually BadKosh, and the back-and-forth between OAW, Tightpants, and subego.

I think this is a fundamental difference in human beings. Some are content with simple ideas and narratives. Perhaps they have been repeated so often they must be true, and questioning often becomes confrontational because it is painful to have a worldview stripped naked like this.

BadKosh is certainly not unique in being seemingly uncomfortable with complexity, and being more comfortable with reducing complexities to simple narratives and generalizations, like PoS liberals being the subject of whatever ire is being expressed and countless other sorts of things he has said over the years. I don't know if this is a lack of intellect or an insecurity, but it's certainly a common trait.

Then you have OAW, Tightpants, and subego, and I certainly fall into this category too, where we cannot be content with pointing to a single thing and agreeing upon it, we have to pick things apart and make them increasingly complex as we delve deeper and deeper into layers of complexity and reasoning (some of this being thought exercises), trying to tip the balance of the other person's thinking.

You'll find that the latter generally gets annoyed at the former, and the former is unable or unwilling to delve into the depth that the latter does.

Then, you have jerks like me that poke holes in the deep divers telling them that they are spinning their tires and wasting their time
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
It's hard for me to make this call, because Wolfe's answer was completely off the mark, and was delivered with a heaping handful of condescension.

If Wolfe responded to this question the way Sanders would have, and then got shouted down? That would demonstrate your claim. I can't make the jump using an example where the person in question is being dismissive the way Wolfe was.
He quite literally never had the opportunity. He was ambushed by a racially-charged hate mob, with megaphones, screaming "Black Power". He wasn't dismissive, he was probably scared, and rightfully so.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:11 PM
 
I'm starting to think that the truth usually resides in a balance. It's not always a balance of ideological statements, but the thought process that is behind these ideological statements.

For example, here Tightpants is basically saying "f the *label*", and OAW is trying to convince him that his reasoning is flawed. The truth is probably somewhere in the sorts of considerations that inspires OAW to challenge Tightpants, and in the essence of what Tightpants is feeling/thinking.

Or maybe there is no truth.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I guess it originally started as about progressivism, then it became about something to do with universities, and now you've found or made up a label that you seem content with. But why is this 8 pages worthy? I guess it gives BadKosh something to froth about, and something to keep you and OAW energized, but really, what's the big deal?
They're destroying our education system with their PC, ignorant, anti-intellectual garbage. That's not a "big deal"? And that's just one facet of the problem.

People pushing the needle in terms of what sort of prejudice, inequality, and essentially cohabitation with other human beings is deemed acceptable or unacceptable is good for society. Slavery didn't end because some people just got tired of owning slaves, it ended because we as a society decided that we were going to end this. There are still many injustices in the world. There are and always will be over and under-compensations to correct these injustices, this is nothing new.
There are many injustices in the world, and perhaps they should go to those areas (Africa, the ME, mainland Asia) and combat them? Compared to what the average person deals with in those places, minorities here are the most privileged people in the world.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
He quite literally never had the opportunity. He was ambushed by a racially-charged hate mob, with megaphones, screaming "Black Power". He wasn't dismissive, he was probably scared, and rightfully so.
We're talking about different situations. This wasn't at the parade.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Qiana_Jad...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I'm starting to think that the truth usually resides in a balance. It's not always a balance of ideological statements, but the thought process that is behind these ideological statements.

For example, here Tightpants is basically saying "f the *label*", and OAW is trying to convince him that his reasoning is flawed. The truth is probably somewhere in the sorts of considerations that inspires OAW to challenge Tightpants, and in the essence of what Tightpants is feeling/thinking.

Or maybe there is no truth.
The truth is arrived at by means of vigorous debate.

The problem is people saying "we are correct, therefore debate is unnecessary and unacceptable".
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
They're destroying our education system with their PC, ignorant, anti-intellectual garbage. That's not a "big deal"? And that's just one facet of the problem.
Sorry, this is stupid.

The whole point of our education system is free, critical thinking. No single ideological viewpoint is a threat to free, critical thinking. In fact, often times being exposed to different viewpoint sharpens our ability to think critically. There are so many different viewpoints and, perhaps more importantly, thought processes, that you simply aren't going to cover all of them in any university no matter what teachers and viewpoints are installed.

Therefore, there are no ideological viewpoints that should pose a threat to any form of education. There are some people, as I've described above, BadKosh et all, that are going to cling to whatever simple narratives work for them, but the remedy isn't to swap out one form of indoctrination for another, or somehow try to rid a system of any kind of ideological viewpoint. These people are what they are, only they can change themselves.


There are many injustices in the world, and perhaps they should go to those areas (Africa, the ME, mainland Asia) and combat them? Compared to what the average person deals with in those places, minorities here are the most privileged people in the world.
I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The thing that has been drawing me to this thread a little is actually BadKosh, and the back-and-forth between OAW, Tightpants, and subego.

I think this is a fundamental difference in human beings. Some are content with simple ideas and narratives. Perhaps they have been repeated so often they must be true, and questioning often becomes confrontational because it is painful to have a worldview stripped naked like this.

BadKosh is certainly not unique in being seemingly uncomfortable with complexity, and being more comfortable with reducing complexities to simple narratives and generalizations, like PoS liberals being the subject of whatever ire is being expressed and countless other sorts of things he has said over the years. I don't know if this is a lack of intellect or an insecurity, but it's certainly a common trait.

Then you have OAW, Tightpants, and subego, and I certainly fall into this category too, where we cannot be content with pointing to a single thing and agreeing upon it, we have to pick things apart and make them increasingly complex as we delve deeper and deeper into layers of complexity and reasoning (some of this being thought exercises), trying to tip the balance of the other person's thinking.

You'll find that the latter generally gets annoyed at the former, and the former is unable or unwilling to delve into the depth that the latter does.

Then, you have jerks like me that poke holes in the deep divers telling them that they are spinning their tires and wasting their time
I aim not to be annoyed by anyone. Each person contributes their own thing, and value can be found in most things if one is willing to look and listen.

You said "maybe there is no truth". I argue the starting point is "all things are true".
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 01:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The whole point of our education system is free, critical thinking. No single ideological viewpoint is a threat to free, critical thinking.
What about the viewpoint "arguments which challenge my viewpoint are not allowed"?

The Yale professors offered their viewpoint and the result was a call for them to be fired.

Seeing as how this is the exact opposite of the exposure to different viewpoints we both agree is vital to critical thinking, how is my concern misplaced?
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Sorry, this is stupid.

The whole point of our education system is free, critical thinking. No single ideological viewpoint is a threat to free, critical thinking.
It's quite amazing how out of touch you are. The neo-progressives are silencing those who disagree (see: "crybullies"), so in essense they're violating the tennents you just espoused. They're avoiding debate, can't take any form of criticism, and they refuse to even allow opponents to even speak.

I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.
I'm sure. It's quite self-explanatory.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
You said "maybe there is no truth". I argue the starting point is "all things are true".
Correct! And when you refuse to even discuss issues you only damage your own platform, not theirs.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by subego View Post
What about the viewpoint "arguments which challenge my viewpoint are not allowed"?

The Yale professors offered their viewpoint and the result was a call for them to be fired.

Seeing as how this is the exact opposite of the exposure to different viewpoints we both agree is vital to critical thinking, how is my concern misplaced?

Sure, but this happens everywhere, not just in education, and the bottom line is that what I said still holds true: no staff, faculty, or other students should pose a threat to independent critical thinking, no matter what they think.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
It's quite amazing how out of touch you are. The neo-progressives are silencing those who disagree (see: "crybullies"), so in essense they're violating the tennents you just espoused. They're avoiding debate, can't take any form of criticism, and they refuse to even allow opponents to even speak.


I haven't looked at this issue, but like I said to subego, this happens *everywhere* in life. It happens in business, sports, media, politics, etc. If you are this upset about this happening in education, shouldn't you be at least as equally upset when this happens in the media and certain viewpoints aren't represented? Heck, there are entire cable news networks that sort of carry the mantle of presenting a particular ideological point of view, shouldn't you be worried about indoctrination happening there?

Like I said, there will always be people that are indocrinatable, you can't change that.
     
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:41 PM
 
Well this thread has certainly taken a constructive turn. So I'll contribute in kind. As Subego has noted Mr. Wolfe was tone-deaf at best and condescendingly dismissive at worst. There's that "spectrum" that he was talking about. I'm not exactly sure where Mr. Wolfe falls on that spectrum. Certainly not like I am with CTP. What I do know is that this is an era of renewed activism in the African-American community. The issues themselves are nothing new. But that Ferguson situation that went down just a few miles down the street from my home I believe was a seminal moment in American history. My gut tells me that kids will be reading about it decades from now because it was the beginning of something impactful. Whether that change results in a net positive or negative for American society as a whole remains to be seen. But as the song says ... change is gon' come. The #BlackLivesMatter movement had its genesis in Ferguson. Not that it was about Mike Brown because it's way deeper than that. But it was the catalyst. The proverbial straw that broke the camel's back so to speak. It touched off an era of renewed scrutiny over issues of police brutality against minorities. Which then inspired renewed scrutiny of racial hostility towards minorities of predominately white campuses. If all this had gone down just 3 years ago Mr. Wolfe would probably still have a job. Not that the underlying issues would have been different because they aren't. But in all likelihood it would have been met with a resignation that African-Americans know all too well ... that's just how it is to be black in America. And while some would prefer it remain that way that's just not the era we are living in anymore because things are ... different. 3 years ago I would have said there's no way in hell those brothers on the Mizzou football team would have stood united and refused to play ... risking their scholarships in the process ... and ended up toppling the president of the University of Missouri system itself and the chancellor of the Mizzou campus. And let's make no mistake about it. Those guys are out not because they appealed to the intellect or the sense of justice of the Mizzou power structure. They are out because they hit them in their wallet. Which unfortunately is the only language some people understand. The college master at Yale still has her position because there's no money on the line. Now personally, I don't have an issue with Mr. Wolfe being toppled. The black students tried repeatedly to work with him and get him to take their concerns seriously and he was decidedly unresponsive. Not so much with the lady at Yale. She only sent out a bone-headed email. Which IMO places her more on the "tone-deaf" side of the equation. And I just don't think she should be fired over that.

OAW
     
OAW
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2001
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 02:56 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Sure, but this happens everywhere, not just in education, and the bottom line is that what I said still holds true: no staff, faculty, or other students should pose a threat to independent critical thinking, no matter what they think.
This is how I see it. Having courses, lectures, speeches, etc. on campus should be allowed. Even when offensive viewpoints are being expressed. That's what campus "free speech" is all about. But white dudes in blackface at a Halloween party or yelling the N-word out of the window of some Confederate flag adorned pickup truck at black students is NOT a "free speech" issue. Throwing cotton balls all over the front lawn of the Black Cultural Center is NOT a "free speech" issue. There is no intellectual justification for that. That is simply creating a racially hostile environment. And anyone trying to conflate the two either simply isn't the brightest or is choosing to be deliberately obtuse.

OAW
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 03:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by OAW View Post
This is how I see it. Having courses, lectures, speeches, etc. on campus should be allowed. Even when offensive viewpoints are being expressed. That's what campus "free speech" is all about. But white dudes in blackface at a Halloween party or yelling the N-word out of the window of some Confederate flag adorned pickup truck at black students is NOT a "free speech" issue. Throwing cotton balls all over the front lawn of the Black Cultural Center is NOT a "free speech" issue. There is no intellectual justification for that. That is simply creating a racially hostile environment. And anyone trying to conflate the two either simply isn't the brightest or is choosing to be deliberately obtuse.

OAW

I agree completely (although I'm not aware as to the details of this incident), but I hope that the consideration of using legislation and mantles of power to correct this sort of undesirable behavior is temporary, and that eventually human beings correct themselves so that this doesn't happen often, and when it does we can kind of police each other the way they chastise and vehemently disapprove of groups like the KKK or Westboro Baptist (not necessarily to make a direct comparison).

The same applies with Affirmative Action and other legislation like that: perhaps necessary and constructive stimulants to a newer way of thinking, but I hope that eventually human beings can stop bickering over this kind of stuff and stop being douches a little less often.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I haven't looked at this issue, but like I said to subego, this happens *everywhere* in life. It happens in business, sports, media, politics, etc. If you are this upset about this happening in education, shouldn't you be at least as equally upset when this happens in the media and certain viewpoints aren't represented? Heck, there are entire cable news networks that sort of carry the mantle of presenting a particular ideological point of view, shouldn't you be worried about indoctrination happening there?

Like I said, there will always be people that are indocrinatable, you can't change that.
You believe that in these schools only one ideological side should be heard? It isn't the fact they aren't represented, students and faculty with other opinions attend, they simply aren't allowed to speak.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 04:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
You believe that in these schools only one ideological side should be heard? It isn't the fact they aren't represented, students and faculty with other opinions attend, they simply aren't allowed to speak.

Everything I said still applies. Certain opinions and speech are suppressed and denied light and exposure in countless areas of life.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Everything I said still applies. Certain opinions and speech are suppressed and denied light and exposure in countless areas of life.
Fair enough, I'll just leave this right here: Christianity and creationism forced on public school students in Louisiana.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Hawkeye_a
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Apr 2000
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 08:18 PM
 
Ben Shapiro: Toughen Up Spoiled Children (Speaking at University of Missouri, November 2015)
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 09:17 PM
 
For the love of...

University of Ottawa yoga class scrapped over "cultural issues" | News | Ottawa Sun

Student leaders have pulled the mat out from 60 University of Ottawa students, ending a free on-campus yoga class over fears the teachings could be seen as a form of "cultural appropriation."
Jennifer Scharf, who has been offering free weekly yoga instruction to students since 2008, says she was shocked when told in September the program would be suspended, and saddened when she learned of the reasoning. Staff at the Centre for Students with Disabilities believe that "while yoga is a really great idea and accessible and great for students ... there are cultural issues of implication involved in the practice," according to an email from the centre. The centre is operated by the university's Student Federation, which first approached Scharf seven years ago about offering yoga instruction to students both with and without disabilities.

The centre goes on to say, "Yoga has been under a lot of controversy lately due to how it is being practiced," and which cultures those practices "are being taken from." The centre official argues since many of those cultures "have experienced oppression, cultural genocide and diasporas due to colonialism and western supremacy ... we need to be mindful of this and how we express ourselves while practising yoga." The concept of cultural appropriation is normally applied when a dominant culture borrows symbols of a marginalized culture for dubious reasons -- such as the fad of hipsters donning indigenous headdresses as a fashion statement, without any regard to cultural significance or stereotype.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 10:01 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I just don't get why you are getting so upset. People go too far sometimes and not far enough at other times. No news here.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 10:02 PM
 
You know what's worth actually upset about? Financial interests using their power to affect politics this way.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 21, 2015, 11:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
I just don't get why you are getting so upset. People go too far sometimes and not far enough at other times. No news here.
I know you don't. I'm simply passionate about individual rights, and because it's not just random occurrences in Western schools, it's a trend.

Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
You know what's worth actually upset about? Financial interests using their power to affect politics this way.
Indeed, I agree, and it would be a good thread subject.
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 12:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants View Post
I know you don't. I'm simply passionate about individual rights, and because it's not just random occurrences in Western schools, it's a trend.
It probably is a trend, but I still think it's a symptom of a much larger progression, and one that is very positive. Namely, an attempt to sculpt our society to be one that is equal and fair to everybody, and perhaps sort of repositioning where religion and science fit in. If we were to chart the trajectory of whatever you want to call this, it would generally be moving upward, but of course there are going to be blips and setbacks like the ones you have cited in this thread.

But what you are doing is getting upset at these blips and setbacks, and not seeing what this is a part of. It's not to make our culture into some sort of weird place where these blips and setbacks represent some sort of prominent/consensus way of looking at the world.

To be clear about what I mean about repositioning where religion and science fit in, this is another good example of the sort of struggle that is a part of the trajectory of whatever this is we're identifying (and I think we are seeing the same thing). There was a time when the church thought some things about the world we now know to be false (e.g. the world being flat). There are those that would rather there be no religion, and those that want to keep things more or less the way they were. Whatever happens, it is clear that this is going to have to be reconciled with what science has told us about the age of the earth, etc. As an expression of this struggle we see crazy shit like the Westboro Baptists, ISIS, etc.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 01:50 AM
 
I find that a large number of neo-progressives believe that the "ends justify the means", that's what manuals like Rules For Radicals teach. That "whatever you can take from someone else is fine, it's their fault for not watching their own interests". The problem is, when you learn to justify wrong actions in the name of what you want, what you feel is "right", then you learn to accept progressively worse tactics. Stalin's Russia didn't spring up overnight, and what Marxists are saying in our universities now about Whites sounds frightfully similar to what Germans were saying about Jews in the early-30s. Now: Black Power! Then: White Power! Radicalism of this sort doesn't just die out as long as it has fuel, and that fuel is social acquiescence. Why would they stop if the "powers that be" quickly cave to their demands and give them what they want, just to appear fair? You don't foster equality by espousing inequality, and chopping down the freedoms of some to seemingly elevate others has never worked. These aren't "blips and setbacks" they're core institutional changes, and not towards progress. It's a marked regression.

This is picking up steam in colleges, from what I can tell, and what do you think will happen when those who have "acquiesced" to these Social Justice demands for so long finally decide that they've had enough? (I'm already starting to hear early sounds of grumbling from those areas.) The people in those minorities will become targets by many and the backlash will be shocking. I don't want to see that, it's absolutely not something I'd condone or support. The last thing I want is to check the news and see campuses at war. But if they continue to disenfranchise (and even expel) those in the majority for exercising their freedom of expression, just to satisfy the very vocal minority, that's exactly what will happen.
( Last edited by Cap'n Tightpants; Nov 22, 2015 at 02:15 PM. )
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 10:32 AM
 
Ignorance and beliefs over facts is whats driving it. its a lack of actually teaching how to identify facts and ignore emotional BS. Kids are being taught to follow their emotions instead of observing the reality around them. This has been instilled on the ignorant little kids and is what is poisoning our country. Kids and to a large part their lousy parents don't want to accept that some other kid is a better performer than their kid is. This has been used by the left to divide us into groups. We are no longer a unified nation. Liberal indoctrination is making everyone a victim. The fact is that some people ARE better than others. Dividing us is a bad idea....for US.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 12:10 PM
 
BadKosh, do you think we should keep a database of Muslims?
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 12:51 PM
 
What does this have to do with progressivism?
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 12:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
BadKosh, do you think we should keep a database of Muslims?
If you believe Jack Chick™, we have that covered. It won't be hard to include Muslims along with al the Proddies we keep track of.
45/47
     
subego
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Chicago, Bang! Bang!
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 12:55 PM
 
No, NOT BLACK LEAF!
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 01:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by BadKosh View Post
What does this have to do with progressivism?
Because the majority of your rants are driven by your emotional BS, as is the idea of keeping a database.
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 01:09 PM
 
45/47
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 01:33 PM
 
More "Rules" victims?.
Gifford v. Erwin - Alliance Defending Freedom

Gifford v. Erwin
Friday, November 20, 2015

Description: Cynthia and Robert Gifford live in a barn they built on their farm and have occasionally hosted weddings on the first floor and the surrounding backyard area. Cynthia serves as a wedding coordinator for those events and does everything but officiate the ceremony. On Sept. 25, 2012, Melisa McCarthy called Cynthia, inquiring about the use of the farm for her upcoming same-sex ceremony. Because of her Christian faith’s teachings on marriage, Cynthia politely made it clear to McCarthy that she and her husband don’t host and coordinate same-sex ceremonies but left open the invitation to visit the farm to consider it as a potential reception site. Instead, McCarthy and her partner filed a complaint with the Division of Human Rights. After the agency ruled that the Giffords were guilty of “sexual orientation discrimination,” it fined them $10,000 plus $3,000 in damages and ordered them to implement re-education training classes designed to contradict the couple’s religious beliefs about marriage.
45/47
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 01:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post

Nothing?

A small group is not a representative sample.
     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
I keep waiting for radfems to do that with a Quran, but we know that'll never happen (despite the fact that Islam is orders of magnitude more draconian towards women than the RCC). Femen has shown up topless at muslim events, but they quickly learned what real intolerance looks like and are promptly dragged away while being kicked and beaten to within an inch of their lives.

NSFW https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMnFwvemTUc

(I support Femen, if you're wondering, they're just about the only feminist group who seems to understand the real hierarchy of threats to women's rights.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
BadKosh
Professional Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Just west of DC.
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 03:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Because the majority of your rants are driven by your emotional BS, as is the idea of keeping a database.
So AGAIN you claim to be a psychic or some such? Do you see everything as a stereotype and every situation as some fictional soap opera plot? You are the one with all the emotion driven posts and crap you never seem to be able to defend.
     
besson3c
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: yes
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 05:17 PM
 
I normally hate these sort of memes that show up in my Facebook feed, but this one is well done:

     
Cap'n Tightpants  (op)
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Shaddim's sock drawer
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 05:34 PM
 
Well done? It's horribly vapid.

"Nope. I believe in Jesus and want this country to be more Christian."

Well, you're wrong. Next.

(That has nothing to do with Sharia law, however. Which is far more foul than any Christian doctrine.)
"I have a dream, that my four little children will one day live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin,
but by the content of their character." - M.L.King Jr
     
Chongo
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: Offline
Nov 22, 2015, 05:50 PM
 
Meanwhile in the UK...

Britain's biggest cinema chains have banned the screening of a film in which the Archbishop of Canterbury and members of the public recite the Lord’s Prayer – because they say it could be offensive to movie-goers.
Odeon, Cineworld and Vue have refused to show the one-minute film the Church of England planned to run in cinemas across the UK before the new Star Wars blockbuster, which opens a week before Christmas.
Last night the Church of England threatened legal action against the cinemas, saying it was the victim of religious discrimination.
The astonishing decision to block the film was made even though it was given a Universal certificate by the British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) – meaning anyone, of any age, can watch it – and approved by the Cinema Advertising Association (CAA).


Read more: Archbishop Welby's fury at cinema ban on 'offensive' Lord's prayer | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
45/47
     
 
Thread Tools
 
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:48 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2017 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.,