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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 144)
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Eug
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Feb 20, 2008, 01:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by exca1ibur View Post
This is my whole point. Moving forward. They don't have to replace the DVD format in a few years. My point is a transition. If every manufacture sold Blu-ray only players right now, that is still can hit 100% of the DVD media market. There is no difference compared to people running out now and picking up an HD-DVD device now to play only DVDs. My point is If the price is right in the next few years, are you saying you would buy an upscaled DVD player, instead of a Blu-ray player? This is more or less what I see happing, this has nothing to do with the optical media itself as it won't affect it at all. You can still buy DVDs, plus Blu-ray movies. Once the hardware is there the transition would be of no risk to the consumer for either format. At that point it's up to the studios on which way they want to go. At that point it wouldn't screw over the consumer at all. You can still keep your 150+ plus DVD collection and, can moving forward to Blu-ray by doing nothing more than buying the media at this point.
Your original suggestion was that companies could drop DVD player manufacturing in 2 years.

Originally Posted by you
Being backwards compatible, within a few years of having everyone making players and competition dropping prices, why bother making standalone DVD players in the next two years or so?
My point is that although I might buy a Blu-ray player if the price is right, not everyone is willing to spend even just $200 for that player. It may not be "risk", but for some people spending that $100-150 more would just be a waste of money. My mom has a DVD player which is fine for her. If it breaks in 2010, I'd recommend to her to buy another one, for $39, or maybe $59 to get DVD upscaling.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 02:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Your original suggestion was that companies could drop DVD player manufacturing in 2 years.
They can, will, they... who knows? It's is possible as it doesn't affect anything as far as media. It's still a 100% media coverage for DVD no matter what happens. Since the money is made on the movie sales it doesn't kill anything but streamline the process of manufacturing one player vs two.

My point is that although I might buy a Blu-ray player if the price is right, not everyone is willing to spend even just $200 for that player. It may not be "risk", but for some people spending that $100-150 more would just be a waste of money. My mom has a DVD player which is fine for her. If it breaks in 2010, I'd recommend to her to buy another one, for $39, or maybe $59 to get DVD upscaling.
Which is why I just said depending on the price, at that point. The manufacturing price isn't going to be high for the entire lifetime of the format, I'm sure we can both agree. Also in 2010, I'm sure the majority of the market will be high definition, getting a hi-def player at that point has a lot more value then that it does now.
( Last edited by exca1ibur; Feb 20, 2008 at 03:16 PM. )
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 02:31 PM
 
Chinese no-name manufactures will continue to make cheap DVD players for Walmart's rummage table, but the brand manufactures will only make BluRay players by the end of 2009. There is no money for them to make in the $40 segment.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 02:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by TETENAL View Post
Chinese no-name manufactures will continue to make cheap DVD players for Walmart's rummage table, but the brand manufactures will only make BluRay players by the end of 2009. There is no money for them to make in the $40 segment.
That's why they sell in the $99 segment of course.

Or do you actually think that name brand Blu-ray players will be commonplace in 2009 with an MSRP of $99? Note that ALL new Blu-ray players must support at least Profile 1.1.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 02:43 PM
 
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Funny how that article hits on all the things that we've been saying for months.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 03:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Toshiba helped design the Cell chip in Sony's PS3, and is Cell's manufacturer already. Such collaborations are quite commonplace, and have little to do with the hi-def war.

I disagree with all three points.

1) According to statements by various insiders, only one studio was pushing for the extra DRM, and that was Fox.

2) The studio reps told us directly. They didn't want to make all discs combos because of consumer confusion. Whether it was true or not (and it WAS probably true), the believed that combo discs would cause some consumers to be confused. And plus combo discs cost more to make.

What would have been nice would have just been to price HD DVD software cheaper (instead of making combo discs cost more), but of course the studios didn't want to do that either.

3) MS already said they had no desire to WAIT for HD DVD drives to be put into the Xbox 360, only to increase cost. The technology was not quite ready for volume production at Xbox 360 levels in 2005, so this was a non-starter.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
1) According to statements by various insiders, only one studio was pushing for the extra DRM, and that was Fox.
FIne. But acording to all the rumors Fox went blu exclusive because of this and because Fox went blu Warner followed.

So at the end of the day the "less DRM" that gomac kept pushing as a plus might have been the tipping point that ended all this.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 03:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
That's why they sell in the $99 segment of course.

Or do you actually think that name brand Blu-ray players will be commonplace in 2009 with an MSRP of $99? Note that ALL new Blu-ray players must support at least Profile 1.1.
Maybe by 2010 I could see this happen. We might see them start to cripple the DVD versions of movies, if they really want to push BD.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
FIne. But acording to all the rumors Fox went blu exclusive because of this and because Fox went blu Warner followed.
Um, no. The rumors say that Fox was going HD-DVD in January until they received an additional payoff.

Looks like DRM wasn't all that important in the end for Fox. Money seemed to be the deciding factor.
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Feb 20, 2008, 03:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by Brien View Post
Maybe by 2010 I could see this happen. We might see them start to cripple the DVD versions of movies, if they really want to push BD.
Unlikely. DVD is the big cash cow for the foreseeable future.

The studios are VERY hesitant to do anything to jeopardize DVD sales. Even by 2010, the installed base of Blu-ray will be small compared to DVD. To put it another way, even if new player sales are tipped in Blu-ray's favour by 2010 (and I think that's unlikely), most players in people's homes will still be DVD, not Blu-ray.

In fact what I expect over the next several years for big disc releases:

Basic ("crippled") DVD version + Special edition DVD + Blu-ray - 3 separate SKUs for one movie release.


Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Um, no. The rumors say that Fox was going HD-DVD in January until they received an additional payoff.

Looks like DRM wasn't all that important in the end for Fox. Money seemed to be the deciding factor.
Well, what I had heard was that Fox was considering going HD DVD for a Toshiba payoff, but then talked to Blu-ray who gave them a payoff to say Blu. Who knows how serious that consideration was though (assuming the rumour isn't totally false to begin with). It could have been a ploy to leverage more cash out of the Blu-ray side.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 04:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Um, no. The rumors say that Fox was going HD-DVD in January until they received an additional payoff.

Looks like DRM wasn't all that important in the end for Fox. Money seemed to be the deciding factor.
"The public backing by Fox comes amid wavering support from the computer industry due to Blu-ray's restrictive copy-protection scheme."

"But Fox and other studios like the strict technology that will prevent consumers from utilizing future movies as freely as current DVDs. HD DVD employs more lax copy controls and ensures support for streaming movies to different locations throughout the home.
"We believe that Blu-ray not only has the superior technology and backing in terms of strength to market but also the superior content protection," Fox Filmed Entertainment co-chairman James Gianopulos told attendees "
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 04:23 PM
 
Question, Blade Runner. I hve both players now. which to buy, BD or HD? Both are the same price.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chongo View Post
Question, Blade Runner. I hve both players now. which to buy, BD or HD? Both are the same price.
They are the same so I don't see why you would want the one that will have zero resell value.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
FIne. But acording to all the rumors Fox went blu exclusive because of this and because Fox went blu Warner followed.

So at the end of the day the "less DRM" that gomac kept pushing as a plus might have been the tipping point that ended all this.
They *originally* went exclusive because of the DRM. But they were considering a switch to HD DVD until a Sony payoff came. That's what caused the Warner switch.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
They are the same so I don't see why you would want the one that will have zero resell value.
I don't know about you, but I don't buy movies based on their future resale value. If they're the same price I'd go with the Blu-Ray now, but if you can get a significant discount on the HD DVD version I'd say go for it.

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Feb 20, 2008, 04:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
I don't know about you, but I don't buy movies based on their future resale value. If they're the same price I'd go with the Blu-Ray now, but if you can get a significant discount on the HD DVD version I'd say go for it.
Since the question was clearly based on "they are the same price" what answer could have I have given that would satisfy you? Should he go up to the cash and say "I hear HD is dead can I get a "significant discount"?
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
They *originally* went exclusive because of the DRM. But they were considering a switch to HD DVD until a Sony payoff came. That's what caused the Warner switch.
Ok so you have proof to back this up or just what you heard from rumor sites? If you don't have any proof then we are just going to have to go with information is KNOWN and Fox has said because of the DRM.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 05:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
The studios are VERY hesitant to do anything to jeopardize DVD sales. Even by 2010, the installed base of Blu-ray will be small compared to DVD. To put it another way, even if new player sales are tipped in Blu-ray's favour by 2010 (and I think that's unlikely), most players in people's homes will still be DVD, not Blu-ray.

In fact what I expect over the next several years for big disc releases:

Basic ("crippled") DVD version + Special edition DVD + Blu-ray - 3 separate SKUs for one movie release.
Not necessarily. More Blu-ray players won't do anything to DVD sales as you can still play them. Also they are already starting on selected titles (Fox) to have DVD versions for ripping to media players included with the Blu-ray version. No idea what the quality is compared to DVD as I haven't bought any that do this yet. However, this could possibly be 1 SKU now. Same with the player. 1 SKU.

BTW. New Line was another company that had big issues with region coding. This is why their HD-DVD versions were months late.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 05:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Or do you actually think that name brand Blu-ray players will be commonplace in 2009 with an MSRP of $99? Note that ALL new Blu-ray players must support at least Profile 1.1.
By the end of 2009 they will be at $150 I estimate. There are way more people who are interested in a $150 BluRay player than in a $99 DVD player. So that's where the money is for the brand manufacturers.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 06:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Well, what I had heard was that Fox was considering going HD DVD for a Toshiba payoff, but then talked to Blu-ray who gave them a payoff to say Blu. Who knows how serious that consideration was though (assuming the rumour isn't totally false to begin with). It could have been a ploy to leverage more cash out of the Blu-ray side.
According to sources Fox actually called Robbie Bach at Microsoft a few days before CES and told them that they were going HD-DVD.
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Feb 20, 2008, 06:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
I doubt it. Apple is all about ecosystems and lifestyles, and Bluray just doesn't fit with Apple's product ecosystem. Remember the digital lifestyle with all your Apple devices working together? Bluray doesn't fit at all with the AppleTV.

Heck, the complete lack of a Apple display with HDCP should be a clear indication.
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Feb 20, 2008, 07:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I doubt it. Apple is all about ecosystems and lifestyles, and Bluray just doesn't fit with Apple's product ecosystem. Remember the digital lifestyle with all your Apple devices working together? Bluray doesn't fit at all with the AppleTV.

Heck, the complete lack of a Apple display with HDCP should be a clear indication.
Ya and they made the same mistake with not shipping combo drives because they were too focused on iMovie which steve apologized for years later.

As much as they all want us to use Apple TV they can't resist customer demand and they will just lose money to people buying them and installing them after the fact to use as a STORAGE MEDIUM.

And I know plenty of people who want to buy a Tower and a 30" LCD and ask me if they can use it as their main TV system and if it supports BR.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 07:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
I doubt it. Apple is all about ecosystems and lifestyles, and Bluray just doesn't fit with Apple's product ecosystem. Remember the digital lifestyle with all your Apple devices working together? Bluray doesn't fit at all with the AppleTV.
Yeah right! Blu-ray (and HD-DVD for that matter) fits within the concept of an Apple program called Final Cut. You see people who do video sometimes like to make movies. Not all of destined for web distribution.
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Feb 20, 2008, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
Ya and they made the same mistake with not shipping combo drives because they were too focused on iMovie which steve apologized for years later.
You're right. Apple went into music and completely didn't build an ecosystem around it. My mistake.

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
As much as they all want us to use Apple TV they can't resist customer demand and they will just lose money to people buying them and installing them after the fact to use as a STORAGE MEDIUM.
You can't just ask customers what they want and then try to give that to them. By the time you get it built, they'll want something new.
Gee. Who said that again?

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES View Post
And I know plenty of people who want to buy a Tower and a 30" LCD and ask me if they can use it as their main TV system and if it supports BR.
Apple doesn't make any 30" Cinema Displays that support HDCP, and open source operating systems don't support HDCP.

Everything you're insisting flies right in the face of what Apple does. Why would Apple purposely add features that compete with their own services? It would be like Sony putting HD-DVD in a Vaio. Would Sony put HD-DVD in a Vaio if consumers demanded it? Hell no.

Originally Posted by climber View Post
Yeah right! Blu-ray (and HD for that matter) fits within the concept of an Apple program called Final Cut. You see people who do video sometimes like to make movies. Not all of destined for web distribution.
I'm sure Apple might include Bluray burners on the Mac Pro for unencrypted content creation, but the debate which Eug brought up specifically excludes the Mac Pros.
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Feb 20, 2008, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
That's kind of a worthless post. "I wonder what Apple now will do now that Blu-ray has won...?" They don't even try to answer.
At least they brought up the point that for better or worse - Apple is dead set on digital downloads and the death of optical media. So most likely they won't do anything. At least not in the imminent future.

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Feb 20, 2008, 08:06 PM
 
The thread that will not die...

All I want to know is how long until I can buy Bourne and Serenity on Blu-Ray.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Everything you're insisting flies right in the face of what Apple does. Why would Apple purposely add features that compete with their own services? It would be like Sony putting HD-DVD in a Vaio. Would Sony put HD-DVD in a Vaio if consumers demanded it? Hell no.
I don't know. By your logic, Apple shouldn't include drives capable of reading DVDs or CDs in their computers because it competes with content sold on iTunes. I would also hasten to point out (again) that Apple's service doesn't compete with BR as a format so much as it competes with Netflix, since you can't actually buy HD movies with it.

However, I don't expect Apple to rush to include BR drives until the burners get to the price where having an iMac with a BR burner would be a viable option. Being able to both view and author HD discs (not to mention back up large amounts of data) would be more compelling than just being able to view movies on your computer. Still, if BR takes off in a big way, I could see them offering some kind of home theater-like system, or even incorporating a BR player into Apple TV. (Apple TV/iTunes would handle rentals while BR would be used for things people want in their library permanently.)
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 08:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
However, I don't expect Apple to rush to include BR drives until the burners get to the price where having an iMac with a BR burner would be a viable option.
I agree, however look at the people ordering the Macbook Air with an SSD drive for $1300 more, for less space. After seeing that I think anything is possible from Apple.

Only thing I see realistic from them is to go with readers for the consumer line, and burners for Pros (Authoring). You can get a BD-ROM drive for about $200 now retail, in bulk or as BTO it should be that big a hit. Since all the monitor lines are dated, the next batch might support HDCP.
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 08:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by icruise View Post
I don't know. By your logic, Apple shouldn't include drives capable of reading DVDs or CDs in their computers because it competes with content sold on iTunes. I would also hasten to point out (again) that Apple's service doesn't compete with BR as a format so much as it competes with Netflix, since you can't actually buy HD movies with it.
There is also the technical issues. For an operating system to support Bluray, it has to support HDCP. For an OS to support HDCP, it needs to support a private HDCP path in the kernel. This means that open source kernels can't support HDCP. OS X has an open source kernel, and therefore can't support HDCP, and further more, can't support Bluray.

Apple could change this situation and fork the kernel. Obviously they've done something for the AppleTV. But it goes far beyond releasing a new version of DVD Player.app. In addition, Apple's hardware doesn't support HDCP. If Apple were actually serious about Bluray, they would have started the HDCP transition on the hardware last year, and Leopard should have shipped with HDCP.

These are all problems that DVD doesn't have. A DVD doesn't need special kernel private paths or encryption schemes in your display. Plus, Apple released their DVD support back in like 1998, before they had any sort of competing service.

Originally Posted by icruise View Post
However, I don't expect Apple to rush to include BR drives until the burners get to the price where having an iMac with a BR burner would be a viable option. Being able to both view and author HD discs (not to mention back up large amounts of data) would be more compelling than just being able to view movies on your computer. Still, if BR takes off in a big way, I could see them offering some kind of home theater-like system, or even incorporating a BR player into Apple TV. (Apple TV/iTunes would handle rentals while BR would be used for things people want in their library permanently.)
Again, I see Apple cutting optical drives from consumer machines before BR drives would come down to a reasonable price. For backups, Apple is pushing Time Capsule. For moving large amounts of data to others, Apple is pushing .Mac. It just doesn't make much sense to include a drive that doesn't work with Time Machine or any other Apple services.
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Feb 20, 2008, 09:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Again, I see Apple cutting optical drives from consumer machines before BR drives would come down to a reasonable price.
I bet they have Blu-ray in Macs by the middle of the summer and that downloads don't ever really take off for normal people. What's the difference between pay-per-view movies and download rentals anyway? Why would people want that?

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Feb 20, 2008, 10:09 PM
 
Apple doesn't need to support HDCP to support Blu-Ray as a DRIVE. There's a significant difference between using it as a storage device and using it to watch movies. Although they would probably want to officially support it 100% or not at all, they could still sell drives as an option.

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Feb 20, 2008, 10:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
I bet they have Blu-ray in Macs by the middle of the summer and that downloads don't ever really take off for normal people.
Again, as it stands, Bluray on the Mac is little more than a pipe dream. The existing hardware is incompatible even with a Bluray drive, and the existing kernel won't work. Apple probably doesn't want to make the OS X kernel closed source and add a bunch of DRM crap to the system in order to support Bluray.

Bluray burning and creating of non encrypted content I could see, but there is no significant demand for that on consumer systems. Most consumers would be just fine burning HD content to dual layer DVD's, once Bluray gets their spec all figured out for DVD support. And that would work with existing hardware.

Originally Posted by mrtew View Post
What's the difference between pay-per-view movies and download rentals anyway? Why would people want that?
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you implying that pay per view and on demand are not popular? Or are you implying they are so popular that the AppleTV can't expect to compete with them?
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Feb 20, 2008, 10:16 PM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Apple doesn't need to support HDCP to support Blu-Ray as a DRIVE. There's a significant difference between using it as a storage device and using it to watch movies. Although they would probably want to officially support it 100% or not at all, they could still sell drives as an option.
Of course, but why would Apple bother adding that as an option? A consumer who wants a Bluray drive can add it themselves. Apple would rather push their own solutions for consumers that need mass storage, such as Time Capsule.
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Feb 20, 2008, 10:41 PM
 
Apple could if they realize that there are people that need to store items onto a BR disc, or author them. You can author your own discs without HDCP.

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Feb 20, 2008, 10:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
Again, as it stands, Bluray on the Mac is little more than a pipe dream. The existing hardware is incompatible even with a Bluray drive, and the existing kernel won't work. Apple probably doesn't want to make the OS X kernel closed source and add a bunch of DRM crap to the system in order to support Bluray....
I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you implying that pay per view and on demand are not popular? Or are you implying they are so popular that the AppleTV can't expect to compete with them?
Why do all the Windows machines have Blu-ray if Apple can't? Just because it's open source? If they introduce Blu-ray drives on all their machines with full Blu-ray support next month how will you explain it?
I've never heard of anyone watching a movie on pay-per-view but I see the channels on my guide so I guess a few people must be into it. But whether it's popular or not I'm still genuinely asking what's really the difference between it and AppleTV rentals as far as a normal person would care care? I just can't picture most people downloading a movie. Most of the people I know can't even wrap their minds around Blu-ray yet.

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Feb 20, 2008, 11:16 PM
 
     
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Feb 20, 2008, 11:53 PM
 
There's a LaCie BURNER drive out there now for $399. And it works on the Mac, despite the crap goMac is talking about.

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Feb 21, 2008, 12:27 AM
 
All the info I find says all you need to have is a compiant Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive, HDCP compliant video card, and a your software player. Right now it Sony and Cyberlink are the only ones I can find. Nothing I can find points to anything needing to be touched in the kernel for an OS.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 02:16 AM
 
Yeah, goMac's gone off the deep end this time. There are already people using BluRay drives on Mac. The current version of Toast for Mac supports it.

Movies can't be far behind. I'm surprised the Pro's dont' already have BR drives, but now that there are drives coming out thin enough for iMacs and laptops, it won't be too much longer.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 03:15 AM
 

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Feb 21, 2008, 07:10 AM
 
They seem REALLY happy! What kind of price are they going for now! Prize for lowest spotted!

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Feb 21, 2008, 07:49 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
Yeah, goMac's gone off the deep end this time. There are already people using BluRay drives on Mac. The current version of Toast for Mac supports it.

Movies can't be far behind. I'm surprised the Pro's dont' already have BR drives, but now that there are drives coming out thin enough for iMacs and laptops, it won't be too much longer.
Actually he hasn't gone off the deep end. If Apple does not close their kernel and add the necessary HDCP code, any Blu-Ray movie watching they add will have to be scaled down to SD video. This isn't a problem on Windows because their source is already closed and they have added the HDCP required code.

Support for the drives themselves is already there, but I agree that Apple will not add the drives as an option as long as they can't be used 100%.

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Feb 21, 2008, 09:22 AM
 
No surprise but it official now. Paramount to go Blu.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 09:31 AM
 
So, with these HD-DVD players going so cheap, does anyone know if the drives inside them are standard IDE drives, and if they can be used as a cheap HD-DVD read-only drive?

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Feb 21, 2008, 09:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by starman View Post
So, with these HD-DVD players going so cheap, does anyone know if the drives inside them are standard IDE drives, and if they can be used as a cheap HD-DVD read-only drive?
The one in my HD-D2 is definitely not.

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Feb 21, 2008, 10:08 AM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
Actually he hasn't gone off the deep end. If Apple does not close their kernel and add the necessary HDCP code, any Blu-Ray movie watching they add will have to be scaled down to SD video. This isn't a problem on Windows because their source is already closed and they have added the HDCP required code.

Support for the drives themselves is already there, but I agree that Apple will not add the drives as an option as long as they can't be used 100%.
I think he's off the deep end and you're exaggerating. Apple has always been part of the consortium and I'm no engineer, but I'd wager doughnuts to dollars there's a way to negotiate any technical hurdles without unduly compromising OS X's principles.

Blu-Ray is now the format for next generation movies and while Apple clearly will be the pioneer in leading people away from optical storage, there will still be BD-friendly Macs in the near future.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 11:10 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
Yeah, goMac's gone off the deep end this time. There are already people using BluRay drives on Mac. The current version of Toast for Mac supports it.

Movies can't be far behind. I'm surprised the Pro's dont' already have BR drives, but now that there are drives coming out thin enough for iMacs and laptops, it won't be too much longer.
Computer data functionality is a completely different kettle of fish from movie playback.

Hell, one could use an HD DVD drive on a Leopard beta Mac back in 2006, but that meant absolutely nothing for commercial HD DVD movie playback support obviously.


Originally Posted by starman View Post
Apple doesn't need to support HDCP to support Blu-Ray as a DRIVE. There's a significant difference between using it as a storage device and using it to watch movies. Although they would probably want to officially support it 100% or not at all, they could still sell drives as an option.
That would be pointless. If they're going to sell the drives, they need a movie playback solution as well, or else they're going have a bazillion pissed off customers. For those who just want the drive, they can just buy a 3rd party drive.
     
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Feb 21, 2008, 11:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by Helmling View Post
I think he's off the deep end and you're exaggerating. Apple has always been part of the consortium and I'm no engineer, but I'd wager doughnuts to dollars there's a way to negotiate any technical hurdles without unduly compromising OS X's principles.

Blu-Ray is now the format for next generation movies and while Apple clearly will be the pioneer in leading people away from optical storage, there will still be BD-friendly Macs in the near future.
Sorry, but what do you base your opinion off of? It's just your gut feeling? Because the HDCP requirements exist. You can look them up.

Their are only two ways Blu-Rays will ever play on OS X:
1) The current system is left unchanged and all movies will be down-scaled to SD quality.
2) The OS X kernel, which is open source, will be forked and the source will be closed. HDCP required pathways will be added and full Blu-Ray functionality will be available.

The only other option would be if the Blu-Ray consortium gets rid of the HDCP requirement, and that just isn't going to happen.

Edit - none of this precludes Apple from including Blu-Ray drives for authoring and backup purposes. This only speaks to playback of DRM'd Blu-Ray movies. But the chance of Apple including a gimped system is very slim. You can already buy external Blu-Ray drives if you want that functionality.
( Last edited by jokell82; Feb 21, 2008 at 11:26 AM. Reason: clarification)

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Feb 21, 2008, 11:36 AM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
down-scaled to SD quality
540p actually.

2) The OS X kernel, which is open source, will be forked and the source will be closed. HDCP required pathways will be added and full Blu-Ray functionality will be available.
Is it definitely a part of the XP kernel, or can it be in the realm of video drivers alone? I never did quite understand this. If XP must support it inherently in the kernel, at what point was HDCP support added? Was it added in say SP1 or was it always present in XP?
     
 
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