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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > macOS > I'm going to throw this thing out the window if it doesn't stop breaking Google.

I'm going to throw this thing out the window if it doesn't stop breaking Google.
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shifuimam
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Nov 11, 2009, 11:26 AM
 
I've had this problem before. My PowerMac G4 running Leopard (10.5.8) arbitrarily refuses to load any Google or Yahoo sites.

This includes sites that are owned by Google and Yahoo, like YouTube and Flickr and Orkut and Blogger.

This is the only machine on my LAN that does this. Putting it in the DMZ of my router does not fix it. Flushing DNS does not fix it - it doesn't appear to be a DNS issue, since I can't access these sites by IP, either.

This keeps happening, and it's really starting to piss me off. I'm not running anything like PeerGuardian, so I'm not seeing any logical reason for why this keeps happening.

I recall last time I was advised to delete some file that may have gotten corrupted. I'll try to find the old thread and do that again, but that doesn't answer the more important question of why the hell does this keep happening.

Any ideas? This is driving me CRAZY, and I hate having to use Bing to search for stuff from this machine.
     
Simon
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Nov 11, 2009, 11:29 AM
 
What do you mean by "arbitrarily refuses to load any Google or Yahoo sites"? Does this mean the sites don't load a in a browser or does it mean you can't ping them? Assuming pinging works, have you tried different browsers?

What do nslookup and traceroute say?

Are you using OpenDNS?
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 11, 2009, 11:30 AM
 
None of that stuff works. The OS flat-out refuses to connect to any Google or Yahoo site by any means. I've tried Safari, Firefox, and IE for Mac. I've tried using every command line network tool to connect. It absolutely will not work.

I take that back - nslookup shows the same IP that pinging shows, although I cannot route to that IP (e.g. ping and traceroute say "no route to host").

I am not using OpenDNS, although I previously tried using that as a means to fix this problem.
     
Andy8
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Nov 11, 2009, 11:56 AM
 
Have you setup another user account to give that a try?
     
Andy8
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Nov 11, 2009, 11:58 AM
 
Are you running Little Snitch?
     
cgc
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Nov 11, 2009, 12:13 PM
 
A program never "arbitrarily refuses to load" any site...you or a program you installed is doing that. The problem is remembering what you installed that could stop Safari and Firefox (e.g. probably a firewall).
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 11, 2009, 12:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Andy8 View Post
Have you setup another user account to give that a try?
Yes. No dice.

Originally Posted by Andy8 View Post
Are you running Little Snitch?
No.

Originally Posted by cgc View Post
A program never "arbitrarily refuses to load" any site...you or a program you installed is doing that. The problem is remembering what you installed that could stop Safari and Firefox (e.g. probably a firewall).
It's not just "a program". It's the entire operating system.

I hardly ever use this machine. All I have installed on it is Firefox, Office, and CS3, and I rarely use the latter two suites of applications. The only applications running in the background at any time are VineVNC server, the drivers for my Logitech mouse, and Witch (cmd+tab replacement).

Looking back at an old thread on this same problem, the only way I was able to fix it was by downloading and installing the 10.5.8 combo updater.

There is something in the core OS that is causing this problem. I don't have a clue what it could be, but I'm fairly certain it's nothing I'm doing. If you'd like, I can kill both VNC and the Logitech software, but since I run both of those on my iBook without a hitch, I don't think that's necessarily what's causing the problem - particularly since it starts happening out of nowhere.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 11, 2009, 12:46 PM
 
Also, to reiterate what I've already tried:

using other DNS servers
flushing the DNS cache
flushing the routing tables
removing the ethernet interface and re-adding it
creating a new location in the networking preferences pane
installing an Airport card and using that instead of ethernet to connect to the network
setting up a static DHCP IP on my router (using MAC registration), releasing the old IP, and picking up a new one
putting the machine in the router's DMZ
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 11, 2009, 12:50 PM
 
new things to try:

new account
combo updater
archive-install
     
Andy8
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Nov 11, 2009, 12:55 PM
 
When your not running the VineVNC server this problem still persists?
     
Simon
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Nov 11, 2009, 01:14 PM
 
I'll bet you this will work.

1.) Install a vanilla OS X
2.) Do not install CS3 or Office

Both of those installers have caused countless occurrences of uttermost weirdness for seevral people I know. I'm 99% certain it's not the "Core OS" as you called it, but rather one of those two installers (or updaters to those apps).
     
CharlesS
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Nov 11, 2009, 01:29 PM
 
Make sure you don’t have something funky in your /etc/hosts file.

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ghporter
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Nov 11, 2009, 01:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Make sure you don’t have something funky in your /etc/hosts file.
This was my most promising thought too. Find and rename the file then see what happens. I believe the /hosts file is global for all locations but not necessarily for all accounts; renaming the file should be a good step and will eliminate some sort of hijinx involving a host entry.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
besson3c
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Nov 11, 2009, 02:02 PM
 
I would suggest breaking this up into smaller, very isolated, thoughtful tests. Otherwise you will be overwhelmed by the number of variables and false leads. As it stands, I'm already confused as to what you've tried and what the results were.

Start with a very basic test such as:

telnet www.google.com 80

If you cannot establish a connection to the Google pool, you can forget about a web browser. If you are being routed to a different site, that will be revealing too in terms of giving us a place to focus.

Would you mind going through this step by step with us? Otherwise, I think you will find that everybody will introduce many new variables and we'll end up grasping at straws rather than going through this more methodically?
( Last edited by besson3c; Nov 11, 2009 at 02:10 PM. )
     
besson3c
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Nov 11, 2009, 02:03 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter View Post
This was my most promising thought too. Find and rename the file then see what happens. I believe the /hosts file is global for all locations but not necessarily for all accounts; renaming the file should be a good step and will eliminate some sort of hijinx involving a host entry.
It is for all accounts. It controls network requests for that entire machine.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 11, 2009, 02:18 PM
 
Nothing funky in either /etc/hosts or /private/etc/hosts - just your run of the mill 127.0.0.1 localhost business.

I can't telnet to google. It comes back with "connection refused" on each of three tries to different IPs and then says "unable to connect to remote host".

I really don't want to reinstall OS X as the solution to this. I'll try reinstalling the combo updater, but I'd also really like to know why the hell this keeps happening.
     
besson3c
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Nov 11, 2009, 02:23 PM
 
Okay, how about:

telnet 209.85.229.104 80
traceroute 209.85.229.104
sudo cat /etc/resolv.conf

(209.85.229.104 is one of the IPs in the Google pool)


You shouldn't have to reinstall OS X, that would be the ultimate straw grasp, IMHO.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 11, 2009, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Okay, how about:

telnet 209.85.229.104 80
traceroute 209.85.229.104
sudo cat /etc/resolv.conf

(209.85.229.104 is one of the IPs in the Google pool)


You shouldn't have to reinstall OS X, that would be the ultimate straw grasp, IMHO.
Got no route to host messages on telnet and traceroute both. My resolv.conf has one single line in it - nameserver 192.168.1.1, which is the IP of my router and the nameserver that shows up automatically in System Preferences for my network connetion.
     
imitchellg5
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Nov 11, 2009, 04:37 PM
 
I have no clue what y'all are talking about, but damn, what a weird issue.
     
besson3c
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Nov 11, 2009, 04:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
Got no route to host messages on telnet and traceroute both. My resolv.conf has one single line in it - nameserver 192.168.1.1, which is the IP of my router and the nameserver that shows up automatically in System Preferences for my network connetion.
Your DNS server is a private IP address? Does your router double as your DNS server? Is it a homemade router of some sort, perhaps another computer doing NAT?

How about this?

host forums.macnn.com 192.168.1.1
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 11, 2009, 04:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Your DNS server is a private IP address? Does your router double as your DNS server? Is it a homemade router of some sort, perhaps another computer doing NAT?
That's normal for many home products. They do DHCP and will broadcast themselves as DNS too but store one's ISP DNS in its settings. OS X 10.5 and higher will, however, use manually-entered DNS before network-supplied DNS.
     
besson3c
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Nov 11, 2009, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
That's normal for many home products. They do DHCP and will broadcast themselves as DNS too but store one's ISP DNS in its settings. OS X 10.5 and higher will, however, use manually-entered DNS before network-supplied DNS.
Really? I didn't know that... I don't think I've ever had a router than served up DNS on a private IP. Shif, what DNS IP addresses is your router configured to use?

I'm not necessarily thinking that this is DNS related, just trying to cover all bases here in a systematic and methodical fashion.
     
Cold Warrior
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Nov 11, 2009, 05:11 PM
 
I've seen this countless times from stuff like Linksys in a Mac's network DNS settings: the router's private IP listed.
     
besson3c
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Nov 11, 2009, 05:14 PM
 
add this command to your list of things to try then, Shif:

host forums.macnn.com 208.67.222.222
     
patrix
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Nov 11, 2009, 07:38 PM
 
traceroute google.com

or

traceroute whatever.ip.google.has

This should tell you where the routing fails and will probably give the biggest clue of all.

(I just did it and google seems to block traceroute requests so it might not get far, but if it doesn't get out of your local network then you at least know the problem is there, and can pinpoint WHERE in the local network - your mac or your router?)

Patrix.
     
ghporter
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Nov 11, 2009, 11:07 PM
 
Patrix, you're about 7 replies too late; besson3c suggested that earlier today.

shiff-sorry, but I'm stumped by this one. Most of the time this sort of selective failure is DNS related with a small number of screwy hosts file cases. Your problem is just weird.

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 13, 2009, 01:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
add this command to your list of things to try then, Shif:

host forums.macnn.com 208.67.222.222
What would that do for me? I can get to MacNN just fine...
     
besson3c
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Nov 13, 2009, 02:01 PM
 
I didn't know that you were posting on the same machine with the problem... Just trying to cover all bases. I'm not expecting to find a smoking gun with this stuff, I'm just trying to get a better perspective of the overall picture.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 18, 2009, 10:14 PM
 
Well, my PowerMac decided to quit booting OS X off its internal drive, so this may be a nonissue if I end up having to completely reinstall.

Sigh.
     
Big Mac
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Nov 19, 2009, 03:10 AM
 
Why am I not surprised?

shifu, you're a Windows user. Why are you here?

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
besson3c
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Nov 19, 2009, 03:24 AM
 
Where did that come from, Big Mac? Bizarre...

I'm just wondering why you seemingly gave up on trying to solve your networking/Google problem, shif? There were people here, myself included, that seemed pretty anxious to try to help. You're obviously quite computer savvy, but all of us need to bounce some ideas off of people, nobody has all the answers.
     
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Nov 19, 2009, 04:45 AM
 
@Big Mac
This forum is open to anybody, Mac users don't belong to some secretive sect, we welcome others here at MacNN. Besides, the problem is Mac-related.
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shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 19, 2009, 07:55 AM
 
Besson: I didn't give up. I got busy on some other things in life for a few days, and when I went to boot up my G4 again, it wouldn't boot. I don't know what the problem is. It doesn't see the internal drive as bootable from the OF bootloader.

I booted off both a full Leopard installation and a Leopard installer from a FW hard drive, and the boot device/startup disk selector in both sees my internal drive and its Leopard installation - but if I select it from either of those and reboot, OF still doesn't see it. I tried an archive&install to no avail.

Next move is to image it onto another drive in case something is physically wrong with this hard drive. if that doesn't do it, I'm just going to format and reinstall.
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 19, 2009, 07:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Why am I not surprised?

shifu, you're a Windows user. Why are you here?
Um, because I use and own Macs?

Macs aren't my primary machines, but I still use them from time to time. No reason to hate on me for not being a cultist type.
     
CharlesS
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Nov 19, 2009, 04:18 PM
 
So the install went through all right, but it just doesn’t show up in the boot selector?

I’m assuming you’ve probably already tried the standard stuff like zapping the PRAM, running fsck on the drive, etc., right?

Ticking sound coming from a .pkg package? Don't let the .bom go off! Inspect it first with Pacifist. Macworld - five mice!
     
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Nov 19, 2009, 05:10 PM
 
My iPhone 2G would not load any Google sites through our work WLAN. Everything else worked, and all other devices worked just fine. Our network admin got curious, then frustrated and eventually gave up
     
shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 19, 2009, 08:20 PM
 
I haven't tried zapping PRAM, mostly because I keep forgetting to. I may give that a shot tonight if I feel like messing with that machine.

I did run Verify Disk from Disk Utility in Leopard on my FW drive, and it came back perfectly fine.

Also: yeah, doing an archive&install completed without errors, but it still isn't showing up in the bootloader. I haven't tried a different HDD yet, though...
     
CharlesS
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Nov 19, 2009, 10:12 PM
 
Have you tried putting the drive in a different enclosure?

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olePigeon
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Nov 19, 2009, 10:35 PM
 
Make sure Content Filtering is off if you have Parental Controls enabled.
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shifuimam  (op)
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Nov 20, 2009, 07:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post
Have you tried putting the drive in a different enclosure?
I don't currently have a FW enclosure I could try it in, unfortunately. I have one somewhere, but it's still packed.

Originally Posted by olePigeon View Post
Make sure Content Filtering is off if you have Parental Controls enabled.
They weren't enabled. The problem literally started happening out of nowhere - no new software installed, no system settings changed from before it broke.
     
bishopazrael
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Nov 20, 2009, 09:15 PM
 
Just a crazy thought, but maybe someone's set something in your router? If you've done all this, you might as well and try a hard reset of your router.
Backups are like guns and condoms. It's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
     
   
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