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Office for Mac 2011: First look (Page 2)
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P
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Feb 15, 2010, 03:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Ding ding! We have a winner. It's Word 6, the most hated version of Word ever (and the only version to fully share a codebase with Windows).
And we were stuck for it for 4 years. Windows had Office 4.3 (which, OK, was more or less the same as 4.2, the one that had Word 6. And we got Word 6.0.1), Office 95 and Office 97 before we got Office 98 - no wonder Word 5.1a had a cult following. Even I liked Word 5.1, and I really had a problem with Word earlier on.

Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Originally Posted by kmkkid
Just out of curiosity; with the majority of people now using widescreen monitors, wouldn't it make more sense to have the ribbon at the side of the window instead of taking up precious vertical space?
That was already tried: it's called the Formatting Palette.
And it even sort of works, but the Formatting palette does not use Fitt's law, and the buttons are organised in lines. The logical way to organize them on a vertical palette is in columns - any Dock-like OS feature works like that. Besides, the Formatting palette was yet one more feature beside the old toolbars and the menubar, and one that didn't do all that the others did.

This doesn't mean that it will work for sure, but the Ribbon makes more sense than most interfaces for a try: The buttons are much higher than normal, making them a better click target for a vertical bar.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Feb 15, 2010, 03:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
And we were stuck for it for 4 years. Windows had Office 4.3 (which, OK, was more or less the same as 4.2, the one that had Word 6. And we got Word 6.0.1), Office 95 and Office 97 before we got Office 98 - no wonder Word 5.1a had a cult following. Even I liked Word 5.1, and I really had a problem with Word earlier on.
5.1a had some odd quirks - like the non-standard (at the time) drop-down is-it-a-button-is-it-a-menu toolbar items, and a couple of other weirdnesses (though *nowhere* near the insane plethora of redundant re-inventing of the same wheel in four different places despite the existence of a ten-year standard we have today).

I stuck with it until Office v.X for native OS X compatibility. By that time, my dependence upon Word had diminished to a point where I no longer cared too much about its glacial nimbleness.
     
voodoo
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Feb 15, 2010, 10:23 PM
 
I was really pleased with Office 98. That one was very good, Office-wise. I guess Office 2008 has been the second best - but damn it needs to start up faster.

So, here's hoping Office 2011 brings some much needed snappiness™ on the Mac!!
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cgc
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Feb 16, 2010, 06:55 PM
 
Wow, didn't think there was so much anti-Office sentiment in here. I agree it's not nearly as snappy as it's Windows counterpart and the omission of VBA may be an issue for some, but it's not as bad as many people think. For the record, I use Nisus Writer Pro for most of my work but use Office 2008 for those times I must collaborate with classmates or others.

The best part is I paid $19.95 as part of a deal my employer (US Government) made with Microsoft. I look forward to Office 2010 but am not sure if I'll upgrade...
     
TheoCryst  (op)
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Feb 16, 2010, 06:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by cgc View Post
Wow, didn't think there was so much anti-Office sentiment in here.
Really? I always thought there was even more...

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
bishopazrael
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Feb 16, 2010, 09:19 PM
 
Hey Theo,
from an average users stand point. I'd love it if Outlook would sync to the iphone with calendar categories like iCal does. Can you tell me if I should look forward to that or forget it? My company is buying 6 iphones and what kills me is that your company does nothing to address this.

Your company shows by its actions that it could care less about supporting the iPhone in what appears to be sour grapes. "We didn't invent it so **** the iphone users" seems to be the mantra of the MBU. You guys refuse to say why you refuse to support the iphone. This was the reason I made my company switch from Office to iWork. Small loss I know to you guys, but then again its not like you guys show that you REALLY care. I don't know when the last time was MS even bothered to ask people what they want.

Sorry to rant but its just my pet peeve that such a huge chunk of the market can be ignored for so long. How many mac users also use MS office and entourage and have an iphone, but if they want catagories.... sorry its only iCal for you!
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AKcrab
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Feb 16, 2010, 09:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by bishopazrael View Post
... Rant ...
Are you sure you should be pointing the finger at M$ and not ?
     
TheoCryst  (op)
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Feb 16, 2010, 09:36 PM
 
AKcrab is right: all the Exchange syncing (and thus Outlook syncing) is written entirely by Apple -- Microsoft had nothing to do with it, and a million new versions of Outlook won't change their implementation. If they failed to implement a feature that you consider crucial to your business, let them know.

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bishopazrael
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Feb 16, 2010, 10:09 PM
 
Either way it just seems childish that the 2 companies just agree that its a crucial item and get it fixed.
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TheoCryst  (op)
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Feb 16, 2010, 10:18 PM
 
Well, now that's hardly fair. In this situation, Microsoft is licensing a means of communication to Apple, who can then choose to implement as much or as little as they choose.

You wouldn't blame Microsoft that Adium can't video chat via Google Talk, you wouldn't blame OpenOffice.org that iWork can't read ODF documents, and you shouldn't blame Microsoft that Apple's implementation of Exchange syncing is incomplete.

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Schwieb
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Feb 17, 2010, 02:09 AM
 
Hey Theo--

Ping me at work so I know who you are...

Schwieb
     
DrTacoMD
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Feb 17, 2010, 10:26 PM
 
Ooh, the ribbon looks hott. As long as the perf is better than '08, I'm game. I wonder when we'll get to see Outlook...
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Thinine
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Feb 19, 2010, 11:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Schwieb View Post
Hey Theo--

Ping me at work so I know who you are...

Schwieb
It's a trap!
     
P
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Feb 20, 2010, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Really? I always thought there was even more...
We hate on it because we care... If Office sucked, I wouldn't bother - I'd just use any of the many other options. There are many Word clones out there that do most of what I need, Filemaker trumps Access and Keynote absolutely kills Powerpoint. I care because Word is still better than its clones, and Excel is an incredibly powerful program. It's just that Excel had all the features I use around version 3, and Word around 5 or 6, and after that nothing much happened. Some pieces are positively rotting from lack of attention - the Analysis Toolbox, for instance, could kill Minitab if anyone spent 5 minutes updating the interface from 1985 and adding just a few more functions (like a normality test - yes I can do them manually, but the algorithms are all long and annoying).

And there you got me ranting again.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
bishopazrael
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Feb 24, 2010, 12:57 PM
 
Well I just saw the first pics on Cnet of the new Office.

Its nice. It looks like it might work well.

But that's not stopping my company from transitioning from Office to iWork. We'll revisit this whole mess in a few years, but for now iWork offers a unified, simple, uncluttered, directed experience. Office is just too bloated, to convoluted.
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Feb 25, 2010, 12:03 AM
 
I can't imagine stuffing all the functionality of the Formatting palette and more into a toolbar, even a double-sized one.
     
Cold Warrior
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Mar 19, 2010, 02:53 PM
 
In case this thread has the MBU's attention, this is a very frustrating item in Entourage:

If an account has IMAP IDLE support, but the connection drops, Entourage pops up an alert telling you this, and all account checking or connection re-establishment is stopped until the user manually closes the alert dialog.

It would be very nice if the disconnect was simply logged and reattempted instead of putting all activity on indefinite hold. Thunderbird behaves like this and I can leave it open all day knowing that it'll reconnect to IMAP IDLE without any user intervention.
     
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Mar 22, 2010, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Thinine View Post
It's a trap!
No doubt!! That was TheoCryst's last post in the forums.
     
slugslugslug
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Mar 30, 2010, 09:10 AM
 
Boy Genius Report has some screenshots:



TheoCryst, Schwieb, I hope you guys don’t work on the UI, because I actually don’t like to just insult other forum members’ work. But wow, this thing is looking ugly. Harder on the eyes than 2007’s ribbon, even (I can’t remember how bad 2010 looks). At least on the Mac, the Ribbon doesn’t mean there’s no standard menu bar. Functions are way harder for me to find in Office 2007 vs. 2003 because of that on my work windows box.

Anyway, unless I become really conversant with VBA soon, I may not bother moving away from 2008 on my Mac.
     
0157988944
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Mar 30, 2010, 01:54 PM
 
I was hoping that the Mac team would be able to figure out the whole "show only applicable formatting options" thing, but then we got the full-blown ribbon. <3 iWork.
     
OreoCookie
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Mar 30, 2010, 02:16 PM
 
I think it is still the pretties ribbon incarnation, but I still wouldn't like to use it. Fortunately, I don't have to use Microsoft Office at all.
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mduell
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Mar 30, 2010, 02:17 PM
 
Ahh the floppy disk save icon. Only deprecated for a decade or so.
     
DrTacoMD
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Mar 31, 2010, 03:54 PM
 
Interesting. I use Entourage on my personal laptop to connect to an Exchange server, and it's pretty painful. I'm mostly interested in seeing Outlook be awesome -- I'm not too picky about the ribbon. (though anything will be better than 2008's wildly-resizing, way-too-tall-for-a-13"-screen palette thing.
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Spheric Harlot
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Mar 31, 2010, 04:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by adamfishercox View Post
I was hoping that the Mac team would be able to figure out the whole "show only applicable formatting options" thing, but then we got the full-blown ribbon. <3 iWork.
The thing is that the people who design Office really haven't the slightest ****ing clue WHY iWork is so much better.

They pretty up the toolbar and add huge insulting colorful icons because they think screenshots is what it's about. But then I go into the "View" menu (incorrectly named "Ansicht" rather than the Mac-standard "Darstellung" in the German localisation) to Configure the Toolbar… the same way it's done in every other Mac application… Whoops.
Suddenly I'm spending *my* time trying to work out what some crackhead team of engineers working within the constraints of twenty years of complete bullshit figured was an interface they (as engineers) could live with.

Sorry Microsoft, but my time is worth money, too, and you really need to spend ten ****ing seconds on realizing who is paying who in this scenario.

They just. Don't. Get. It.
     
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Mar 31, 2010, 04:48 PM
 
Bashing MS for their interfaces is like shooting fish in a barrel, but I have to say that they are at least TRYING to do something now. The old multiple-toolbar setup on Windows was horribly broken (and don't get me started on Clippy) and the post-2007 interface is at least an attempt to improve. I happen to think that the standard Mac interface is better, but I'm not going to tell them to stop experimenting.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
turtle777
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Mar 31, 2010, 06:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by mduell View Post
Ahh the floppy disk save icon. Only deprecated for a decade or so.
Pfff, that's like bashing Apple for using the term Folders for file hierarchy structures.

Fun while you're at it, but really a useless waste of time.

-t
     
imitchellg5
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Mar 31, 2010, 06:48 PM
 
That is a really ugly interface. It's way too cluttered. There is a lot of wasted space as well, I have the feeling that it'll be very cramped on 13' MacBook screens. More reasons why I love iWork.
     
TheoCryst  (op)
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Apr 2, 2010, 04:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
No doubt!! That was TheoCryst's last post in the forums.
Aww, I miss you guys too! But no, it was nothing so sinister. I've just been busy with work and other things out in the Real World™, so I decided it would be a good decision to take a break from the forum.

A break which I'm specifically, er, taking a break from, to tell you all that I'm alive and well, and looking forward to coming back to the forum at some point in the future!

Hugs and kisses all!

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
imitchellg5
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Apr 2, 2010, 04:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
things out in the Real World™
Wait, what??
     
TheoCryst  (op)
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Apr 2, 2010, 04:54 PM
 
Not the TV show, the other real world. You know, with the trees, and the... squirrels, and...

um...

Oh, beer. Lots of beer.

Any ramblings are entirely my own, and do not represent those of my employers, coworkers, friends, or species
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 2, 2010, 04:54 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Bashing MS for their interfaces is like shooting fish in a barrel, but I have to say that they are at least TRYING to do something now. The old multiple-toolbar setup on Windows was horribly broken (and don't get me started on Clippy) and the post-2007 interface is at least an attempt to improve. I happen to think that the standard Mac interface is better, but I'm not going to tell them to stop experimenting.
They've been doing that since Word 6.0.

The problem is that they keep experimenting and tweak until the screaming from their test subjects dies down a little, and then release that.

They have apparently never tried to understand the CONCEPTs behind what Apple's doing.

I don't think they even realize that there IS a concept.
     
imitchellg5
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Apr 2, 2010, 05:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Not the TV show, the other real world. You know, with the trees, and the... squirrels, and...

um...

Oh, beer. Lots of beer.
Oh, THAT place!
     
Spheric Harlot
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Apr 2, 2010, 05:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by TheoCryst View Post
Not the TV show, the other real world. You know, with the trees, and the... squirrels, and...

um...

Oh, beer. Lots of beer.
Carry on - see you after summer!

     
turtle777
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Apr 2, 2010, 08:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Carry on - see you after summer!

You mean, when there is no more beer ?

-t
     
Atheist
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Jun 2, 2010, 10:08 AM
 
Anybody here playing around with Beta 3? I'm trying to get Outlook to talk to my corporate Exchange server 2003 but it just shows a yellow (instead of green) indicator next to the account and nothing else. No messages, nothing in the console log. I'm confident I'm using the correct setup info and credentials. (this is over a VPN connection)

Just curious if anyone's had any luck with Outlook.
( Last edited by Atheist; Jun 2, 2010 at 10:22 AM. )
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 2, 2010, 10:11 AM
 
For some reason I can't download beta 3. I guess M$ removed me from the beta?
     
Art Vandelay
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Jun 2, 2010, 12:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Atheist View Post
Anybody here playing around with Beta 3? I'm trying to get Outlook to talk to my corporate Exchange server 2003 but it just shows a yellow (instead of green) indicator next to the account and nothing else. No messages, nothing in the console log. I'm confident I'm using the correct setup info and credentials. (this is over a VPN connection)

Just curious if anyone's had any luck with Outlook.
I'm under the impression that the new Outlook only uses EWS which requires Exchange 2007 or higher.
Vandelay Industries
     
Atheist
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Jun 2, 2010, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by Art Vandelay View Post
I'm under the impression that the new Outlook only uses EWS which requires Exchange 2007 or higher.
Since Outlook 2010 on Windows supports Exchange Server 2003, I was assuming Outlook 2011 on OS X would support it as well. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to get a definitive answer.
     
Art Vandelay
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Jun 2, 2010, 02:20 PM
 
PC Outlook still supports MAPI. MAPI is never coming to the Mac since it's being phased out in favor of EWS. The only way Mac Outlook would be able to connect to pre-2007 Exchange is through IMAP and WebDAV. I'm pretty sure that MacBU is ditching those for Exchange connectivity.
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jmiddel
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Jun 4, 2010, 12:02 AM
 
It's not so much that I find Office 2008 sluggish, it's that it is buggy. Sure, fast it ain't ever, but what is bad are things like word count not updating, the cursor becoming invisible, or it just crashing when doing a simple save. Excel is just retarded! I can't wait for a new version, this one must be the worst iteration of office ever.
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 7, 2010, 08:58 PM
 
Beta 4 has pretty icons. Apparently I'm back on M$'s friend list.
     
rickey939
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Jun 7, 2010, 11:18 PM
 
Is Outlook fully functional yet?
     
Andy8
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Jun 9, 2010, 07:10 PM
 
Microsoft says Office for Mac 2011 will be 32-bit only

On the heels of releasing security updates for previous versions of Office, Microsoft on its blog Tuesday said that the 2011 version of the Office for Mac suite will be 32-bit only. The focus of development has been on improving compatibility between Mac and Windows platforms, according to product unit manager Jake Hoelter, and so Office has not been completely transitioned over to Cocoa. Unless the entire suite is written in Cocoa, it cannot take advantage of 64-bit processing.

Parts of the suite that are written in Cocoa include the ribbon user interface imported from Windows, and Outlook, which is replacing the Mac-exclusive Entourage. The main advantage of switching to 64-bit would be memory, as the program could for instance better handle large Excel spreadsheets and PowerPoint presentations. Even Windows users should probably stay with 32-bit though, according to Hoelter, as it offers the best compatibility. Office for Mac 2011 is due in the fall.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Jun 9, 2010, 07:14 PM
 
Who cares?

Why does it matter in the slightest whether the Office Suite goes 64-bit?
     
Eden Aurora
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Jun 9, 2010, 07:27 PM
 
i care. i want 64-bit.
goes to show that Micropoopie isn't committed to the Apple platform. in fact, they are scared, very scared.....so they intentionally make inferior products.
I eat turtle soup for breakfast
     
AKcrab
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Jun 9, 2010, 07:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eden Aurora View Post
i care. i want 64-bit.
Why?
     
slugslugslug
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Jun 9, 2010, 10:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eden Aurora View Post
… Micropoopie…
Really?

I doubt it’ll much matter to people why you care.
     
Cold Warrior
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Jun 9, 2010, 10:08 PM
 
Given limited time and prioritized work efforts, I'd rather have an improved O2k10 32-bit than a less-improved 64-bit app suite.
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 9, 2010, 10:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eden Aurora View Post
i care. i want 64-bit.
goes to show that Micropoopie isn't committed to the Apple platform. in fact, they are scared, very scared.....so they intentionally make inferior products.
Then I guess that since iTunes isn't 64-bit, Apple isn't committed to itself, right?
     
imitchellg5
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Jun 9, 2010, 10:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by rickey939 View Post
Is Outlook fully functional yet?
As far as I can tell, however, it's a fan of using lots of CPU cycles.
     
 
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