[rudynorff]

Hello,

I just checked out the Beta and I love it. The dock is great, the navigation is great and I like the GUI!

The only thing that concerns me is the Finder. I think it is a good replacement for the old Finder, but in my oppinion the following things are missing :

- Forward and Backward Button (like the ones in Netscape)
This could be useful if you were using the Icon-View.
- Directory Up (the explorer for windows has this feature)
Again this would only be very useful for the Icon-View.
- Favorites Bar (again a netscape feature)
This would be very neat for quick access to your folders.

And I don't get why the Finder is written in Carbon, why isn't it written
in Cocoa, doesnt make any sense to me ?

But if Apple adds these few things and if Fireworks ships for OS X and some other apps I wouldNt waste a second buying this thing!

Have a good night,
Rudy

[Lapeyre]

Hello Rudy,

I have a great work around for you :

1) Open Netscape

2) Enter the address :

file:///add_your_hd_name_here/




And if you have partitions, dont use your HD name but your computer name in the address...

Then you will have the Finder of your dreams ! Not very practical for duplicating, creating aliases, moving or deleting files for example, but who cares... It will be an excellent Finder-Launcher and it will even make previews most of the time ! + Being a Favorite (or AppleMenu like) compatible solution = you won't have to use these too big Finder buttons anymore because you will always have direct access to what you wan't (direct access to folders, of course, but even to their content !!!!!!! What a feature! ) and not only to the same very few folders + Making smaller windows than the Finder buttoned ones will be possible, ...

And I don't get why the Finder is written in Carbon, why isn't it written
in Cocoa, doesnt make any sense to me ?

Carbon is being promoted by Apple as every bit a valid development environment for OS X as Cocoa. What better way to prove it to concerned developers than to write half the native OS X apps with it?

You shouldn't see Carbon as a second-class citizen to Cocoa.

Carbon represents the "Mac way of programming" - it lets code be written in C++, using PowerPlant if desired and resources, and calling traditional Mac OS style APIs.

Cocoa represent the "NeXT way of programming" - it uses Objective-C, frameworks, and different API calls.

Ultimately, a program written in Carbon or Cocoa can do exactly the same thing, it is just the path used to get there. The great thing about Mac OS X is that many different development environments are available - Carbon, Cocoa, Java, Unix shell, Perl, on and on...

Don't forget too that there are probably a lot of programmers inside Apple who are more comfortable programming with C++ and the Mac OS toolbox. They are not all seasoned NeXT programmers.

[baliset]

This idea you have about a "web browser" type interface for the file system sounds suspiciously like what Microsoft did with Windows. I think the concept is fundamentally flawed

------------------
Nathan Zamprogno,
Manager, Baliset Solutions
[email protected]

[kennedy]

You guys, be nice!
Rudy didn't say that's *all* he wanted in the Finder...
he said that's all he wanted to add.

Rudy, you have a back button... that "dotted arrow pointing left" is
a back button. Not sure why they didn't provide a forward button...
if you have a back, you can (and probably should) have a forward.

And like you, I do like having the up-button... and would recommend
Apple add it... but note that you do have an up-menu -- that selection box with the name of the directory on it.

And finally, there is two forms of Favorites provided: 1) the bar (Cmd-B toggles it on and off) with a nice set of common targets (and I am sure most the Mac'ers here would agree with wanting Apple to make that set of buttons customizable); and 2) the Favorites directory (press Favorites in the bar above) can contain links/aliases to most anything.

And magicgwok already answered your last question very well, so you should be happy!

Oh, and welcome to the forum (despite the bit of heat ya got to start)!

If you hit command-uparrow in a finder window you'll go up to the parent directory/folder of the directory you're currently in. Just like in OS 9.

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Life is what happens to you when you have something else planned. --Mark Roberts

[kennedy]

Yeah, but its broken... it only works some of the time.
I've never been able to go up twice in a row.
And when it does "work", it changes the mode to icon.

A *working* Up button should be added... and Cmd-Up should
be bound to that as well. I argue for the button because
I hate switching from keyboard to mouse (or vice-versa)...
and the Finder is definitely mouse-oriented.

In contrast, put a Up button on Terminal that automatically
types 'cd ..' for me, and it will *never* get used... I'd
rather leave my hands on the keyboard and type the 5 chars.

[rudynorff]

If you hit command-uparrow in a finder window you'll go up to the parent directory/folder of the directory you're currently in. Just like in OS 9.

Hello,

you're right, but wouldn't it be much better if Apple put this "directory up" thing as a button in the finder. I think many beginners would appreciate if all the important features would be listed as buttons.

Well, that's just my idea,
maybe you've got other prespectives,
bye, Rudy

I have been using OSX beta now for a considerable amount of time. I am a programmer by trade whose work is totally windows centric, but use macs for all "creative" purposes. I was hired because I can code for both (and unix) so for me, X has been a blast. I can get all of my coding done in CodeWarrior. As for the "Desktop" (It ain't the finder folks) I think it is a total joke. It appears to be about 30% finished. and they claim that they have been working on it for 2 years now. I understand it is beta, but it seems to be almost pre alpha.

first I just want to say that I understand this is beta software, and that it is supposed to be "rough around the edges", but come one folks, they have been working on this OS now for 3 years, and they have been showing us this new finder thing for over a year now.

things I hate about it:

1) it doesn't remeber settings. I am constantly clicking on the stupid "maximise" button and then resizing slightly, because the windows always seem to come up in the same default size after a reboot. It doesn't open the actual window if you do an option open of a folder. In OS9, if you option click on a folder, it opens that folder's window, and closes the parent window's folder, and it REMEMBERS all the nice lovely settings one used for that "child" window, size, view, icon size, etc. in OSX, it REPLACES the contents of the current window with the contents of the folder you option clicked on, so you spend 30 seconds changing the attributes for the new contents so you have the view settings you thought you would get. finally, after every reboot, all my icons on the desktop are lined up in a row on the right hand side, so I spend time putting them back where I left them when I shut down, which is another niggly point, all you can do is shutdown. where did the restart menu item disappear to?

2) it doesn't print.
The greatest thing I love about the OS9 finder is that you can PRINT the contents of a folder... apparantly no one at apple cares about this functionality, because, like windows, it now can't print at all. there is no "print window..." or "page setup..." menu item anywhere.

I want to be able to get more than one info window on screen at any time, so that i can compare dates and times and other info of two files. only one Inspector window is available at any time.

apple scripting: half the things I could tell the "finder" to do, the "desktop" says it doesn't understand, yet, the entries in the "desktop's" applescript dictionary are an exact clone of the "finder's".

these are not questions about whether you like the look of the new desktop better than the finder, or whether the dock is doing what it should, these are fundamental questions about functionality, and why this "beta" is more like an alpha.

all in all, i would have to say that if the current "desktop" took one to two years to develop, it needs about 2 more years of work before it will be able to be used the way it is advertised.

Tim

[ShortcutToMoncton]

For a programmer, Tim, I think you sure miss quite a few fundamental things about how OS X is coming along.

AppleScript: Go look at Sal's post, the HUGE one. Basically, in there somewhere he says that AppleScripting isn't fully implemented yet. I have no idea...go ask him. Seriously. He seems to know about that topic....

The whole system can't print yet (won't recognize most printers, anyway). If they are planning on adding this functionality, which I assume they would ( ), I think they would remove any "Print" commands in the menu so as to be less confusing.... Maybe I'm totally screwed up, but that just seems logical......

As for settings...again, I'm assuming here, but I think they'll be added later. Remember, Tim, this beta is trying to get all the stuff WORKING together. Remembering the folder's correct size is important in a final release, but hardly relevant when you're trying to make sure it's actually running like it's supposed to.

Personally, I would consider most of your points "niggling" things - things that seem obvious to include in a final release, but not necessary when trying to get stuff like the actual USE of the OS implemented.

Anyway, that's my view on the world...how off-base it is, I don't know.....

greg

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Though the day's been
really long
I still feel I'm close to
nowhere....

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Hey...I was just thinking....maybe Apple is trying to pull another "no floppy" move!!!!

I think they're NOT GONNA INCLUDE THE OPTION TO PRINT!!!!

Yep, I can see it now...

"The Internet is the way to go...printing is archaic. Each Apple computer comes standard with a 56k modem which allows....."

greg



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Though the day's been
really long
I still feel I'm close to
nowhere....

[fmalloy]

The true realization of the paperless office?

[qnc]

lol

Save the rain forest make paper from pulping windows!!!!

What do you want from a beta, a final version. I supose they should have not bothered asking our opion. Anyway if your such a good programmer can't you hack these things to it yourself.

Oh send us all a script of it when your done!!!!