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Jim Paradise · May 4, 2007, 10:48 PM

I gave my TiBook the kiss of death earlier this week, and am considering purcashing a MacBook Pro to replace it. However, the cost of the mid-range MBP would be more than purchasing the low-end MacBook and an iMac via the education discount, so I'm also considering that. Minus the taxes, the mid-range MBP is as much as I'm willing and able to spend. The pluses of purchasing the mid-range MBP are the RAM, the 256MB graphics card, and that teeny bit of extra speed on the processors.

On the other hand, I could get a low-end MacBook that would be fine for classes, and an iMac to leave at home to do my other work. I'd have a lot of hard drive space between the two computers, one computer that could burn DVDs still, and if one of the two messed up, I would still have a computer to work on.

I'm leaning towards the MBP because my Powerbook was very useful as both a laptop and desktop, and I think the mid-range MBP would fill its shoes nicely. (I also like the backlit keyboard...) So, are there any widespread issues affecting the current MBPs that I should be worried about?

mduell · May 4, 2007, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Paradise

So, are there any widespread issues affecting the current MBPs that I should be worried about?

Only that it's on the verge of being updated. Intel will release their new mobile platform on May 9th, and tons of other OEMs (Dell, Sony, Asus, HP, etc) have already announced their new laptops. New features include faster FSB, faster CPUs, more memory, flash acceleration, etc.

RogueSqdn · May 4, 2007, 11:14 PM

I'm in upgrade limbo.

Try to be patient if you want a MBP, though. For me, patience is the only issue now, as I've gotten my credit cards paid off and now just have to wait for Apple. That could go a few different ways, though... new MBPs could be announced next week, or maybe not until WWDC. Hell, it's possible that we could have to wait until October and Leopard's release, but I doubt Apple would wait that long.

My instinct is WWDC, though.

dagamer34 · May 4, 2007, 11:27 PM

Updates for the Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro (current gen) took 3 months from when Intel announced availablity of Core 2 Duo chips in July. I'd say Apple's going to wait until when Leopard is announced to release them along with LED-based MacBooks/MacBook Pros. It's very costly to update a line of notebooks multiple times as there's a lot of QA and design each model must go through. Always easier to do all desired model changes at once rather than in increments if possible.

So like I said, my bet is new MacBook Pros around Sept/Oct and that's why I went ahead and bought my MacBook Pro now. No reason to wait, the current MBP is still one of the best laptops ever made.

Jim Paradise · May 5, 2007, 04:16 PM

I don't mind waiting for a few weeks before I make my purchase, although June is a little late for my needs. The main two problems seem to be the battery bulge and the latch bulge. I'd rather not have my computer warping out of the box. Other than that, the current MBPs seem to be excellent machines.

G. I. · May 5, 2007, 04:59 PM

Current MBP screens are crap. I'd wait for the LED backlighted ones.

CollinG3G4 · May 5, 2007, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by G. I.

Current MBP screens are crap. I'd wait for the LED backlighted ones.

Lies!

Kenneth · May 5, 2007, 06:35 PM

^^
I think the current MBP screen is decent. Of course, there is always something better in the future release.

Outstanding issue? Apple support should be a good place to look.

TailsToo · May 5, 2007, 07:44 PM

I've been totally happy with mine!

dagamer34 · May 5, 2007, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by G. I.

Current MBP screens are crap. I'd wait for the LED backlighted ones.

Saying things like that means you are easily swayed by future technology and will never be happy with what is available.

nate_02 · May 6, 2007, 08:49 PM

I do agree with G. I. that the current MBP screens aren't very good. i think the screen on my PB G4 1.5 is better. The matte screens look kinda grainy, and seems like all the ones I've seen have uneven illumination.

EndlessMac · May 6, 2007, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by nate_02

I do agree with G. I. that the current MBP screens aren't very good. i think the screen on my PB G4 1.5 is better. The matte screens look kinda grainy, and seems like all the ones I've seen have uneven illumination.

How about the glossy screens? Anyone have any experiences with them? I'm thinking about buying a MBP sometime in the future so I would also like to know people's opinions on the current MBPs.

The screen on my PB G4 1ghz is ok but not great. I'm hoping that the technology would improve as opposed to being worst as some people are implying.

G. I. · May 7, 2007, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by dagamer34

Saying things like that means you are easily swayed by future technology and will never be happy with what is available.

It's not about future technology. The MBP CD2 screens are poor compared to other normal TFTs, like the MacBook's. Last time I saw a bright light stripe at the bottom of the screen it was a 700USD Gericom-whatever laptop. I don't care about grainy coating but the backlighting and the viewing angle were pathetic on the MBP CD2s I saw.

JKT · May 7, 2007, 06:29 AM

Other issues based on 3 years of using the Powerbook in my sig (assuming these are still there from the Al Powerbook design... correct me if these have been fixed):

1. Uneven lighting across the screen, and scratches from the keyboard occur unless you use a screen protector
2. Pitting of the aluminium around the wrist rest and button if you happen to have sweat at the "wrong" pH.
3. Dark patches appearing on the left (in particular) and right side of the screen when the fans are blowing (temporary as it is due to the screen heating up - they disappear when it cools again but ugly as sin when they are there)
4. Dirt and scratch prone (the Al design is nigh on impossible to keep free of salt and other stains, and don't even think of using it on a less than clean surface)
5. Poor location of the security lock hole (it prevents you from using some USB devices in the port next to it, if you use it).
6. The ExpressCard port is still the smaller 34 in the MBPs (doesn't apply to my Powerbook of course, but worth pointing out).
7. Relatively poor Wi-Fi reception compared to other laptops (it is not bad, but not great either).

mac128k-1984 · May 7, 2007, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

Other issues based on 3 years of using the Powerbook in my sig (assuming these are still there from the Al Powerbook design... correct me if these have been fixed):

I don't know what generation PB you had versus what I owned but the PB AL that I owned did not have the issues you mention.

1. Uneven lighting across the screen, and scratches from the keyboard occur unless you use a screen protector
2. Pitting of the aluminium around the wrist rest and button if you happen to have sweat at the "wrong" pH.

Lighting was even, no scratches from the keyboard, as for #2 my pH could be different.

3. Dark patches appearing on the left (in particular) and right side of the screen when the fans are blowing (temporary as it is due to the screen heating up - they disappear when it cools again but ugly as sin when they are there)

No issues on mine

[QUOTE]4. Dirt and scratch prone (the Al design is nigh on impossible to keep free of salt and other stains, and don't even think of using it on a less than clean surface)
Definitely - I think there's no way around this, but then tghe MBs are no better. My white MB is showing tiny little scratches even though I take excellent care of it

5. Poor location of the security lock hole (it prevents you from using some USB devices in the port next to it, if you use it).

No Argument here,

6. The ExpressCard port is still the smaller 34 in the MBPs (doesn't apply to my Powerbook of course, but worth pointing out).

I don't use a expresscard so no comment

7. Relatively poor Wi-Fi reception compared to other laptops (it is not bad, but not great either).

Again a result of using aluminum.

Bottom line, the PB and MPB are not perfect but many of the issues you mention do not effect all owners. My PB screen was excellent, the keyboard did not scratch the screen and the fans did not effect the display. The alu skin does scratch, and is easlily deformed, i.e., a soft metal and it does hamper wireless reception.

nate_02 · May 7, 2007, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by G. I.

It's not about future technology. The MBP CD2 screens are poor compared to other normal TFTs, like the MacBook's. Last time I saw a bright light stripe at the bottom of the screen it was a 700USD Gericom-whatever laptop. I don't care about grainy coating but the backlighting and the viewing angle were pathetic on the MBP CD2s I saw.

The glossy screens don't have the grainy issue, but they can still have uneven illumination. I am picky about my screens, so that's one of the first things I notice. I have several friends with MBPs, and they love them and have had no issues. So it all comes down to how picky you are.

mac128k-1984 · May 7, 2007, 10:26 AM

Glossy screens tend to oversaturate colors too. This may not be a big for some, and it could be a huge deal for others. Glare can also be a problem but to be honest it doesn't bother me.

NeutrinoMan · May 7, 2007, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by nate_02

The glossy screens don't have the grainy issue, but they can still have uneven illumination. I am picky about my screens, so that's one of the first things I notice. I have several friends with MBPs, and they love them and have had no issues. So it all comes down to how picky you are.

I disagree with this on several levels.

First, the screen grain issue affects MBP 15" models, matte AND glossy. The 17" is unaffected by screen grain, but BOTH models, the 15" and 17", suffer from uneven illumination (one of the reasons I'm excited about upcoming LED displays). For more information on the screen grain issue, see this thread.

It's true that there are some good screens on current MBP models, and I'm sure your friends love them. But in investigating this issue, I've looked at about 30 display models in different cities, and can say with certainty that this generation of MBPs has "crap screens". More properly put, a high percentage of machines are affected by grain and uneven illumination.

This has nothing to do with pickiness. This has to do with getting a usable screen that doesn't cause eyestrain - not much to expect for the $$$$$$$ investment in an MBP. Apple would have been better off sticking with screen technology from the PB G4 generation - those screens were fine.

For those of you that have a good screen in this generation of MBPs, I'm happy for you. But don't try to diminish this issue - for anyone in the market right now, I would not purchase without hauling the machine out of the box and inspecting the screen first.

And considering new models are on the horizon... if you can wait, it would probably be prudent to do so. There's not only the issue with the screens, but now we've got battery life issues popping up as well.

JKT · May 7, 2007, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by mac128k-1984

Lighting was even, no scratches from the keyboard, as for #2 my pH could be different.

My AlBook is the second generation (out of the four Powerbook models).

The aluminium pitting is a very well known issue with the AlBooks and I would be extremely surprised if the MBPs don't suffer from it.

Either they have improved things in the later model screens, or I have just been seriously unlucky. I have had three screens on my Powerbook now and all three have had uneven lighting. I also now have a scratch on my screen from the JKL keys (from the one and only time I forgot to use my screen protector, natch). It isn't visible during use unless the screen is dark but is very visible when the screen is off.

The darkening of the screen occurs when the CPU is maxed and the fans are going full blast (e.g. during and after playing a game). Again, I doubt if this has been fixed in later models as it is caused by the hot air being directed onto the screen when vented out the back by the hinge. As the hinge mechanism and venting is essentially the same in all AlBooks I would imagine they all suffer from it.

SierraDragon · May 7, 2007, 12:15 PM

Originally Posted by NeutrinoMan

...I would not purchase without hauling the machine out of the box and inspecting the screen first.

Hopefully that applies to any product we buy, esp. ones that cost thousands of dollars! IMO it certainly is not rocket science to check out the products one buys - and then exchange if needed under the 14 day no-questions-asked warranty.

I manage TiBooks, AlBooks, MBPs and towers, including personal ownership of a PB G4 and a C2D MBP that run Aperture and Adobe apps. Of course the 3 GB RAM of the MBP is limiting, but after a few months I am extremely pleased by the MBP overall.

The current MBPs are excellent laptops in every way, and IMO most of the negative commentary above (many from wags who do not own one) is readily resolved by basic prudent purchasing policy. The are all very good laptops for their times, each generation improving. The current C2D MBPs are excellent.

All that said, IMO the next MBP revision is close enough that unless one's need is urgent at this point one should wait to see the next revision before buying. And personally I think the iMac plus MB is a bad idea, just buying a lower end desktop plus a low end laptop; weak + weak does not = strong. Better to max a MBP and add a second monitor and external hard drive.

Also note that the laptop/desktop files coordination routine is a PITA. The only reason to intentionally deal with it is to gain the extra power/RAM/hard drives of a strong desktop, and that means a tower. iMacs are not appreciably stronger than a MBP, making them of limited value when compared against MBPs with their portability and Mac Pro towers with their unequaled power. IMO.

-Allen Wicks

rehoot · May 7, 2007, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by G. I.

Current MBP screens are crap. I'd wait for the LED backlighted ones.

Huh? The screens look good to me.

rehoot · 10:15 PM

Originally Posted by nate_02

I do agree with G. I. that the current MBP screens aren't very good. i think the screen on my PB G4 1.5 is better. The matte screens look kinda grainy, and seems like all the ones I've seen have uneven illumination.

I have a PB G4 and a Mac Pro with a new cinema screen. The PB G4 is very dim compared to the MBP and any other new screen. Have you ever compared them side-by-side? Maybe I saw an unusually good MBP screen or I am overly sensitive to the dimness issue and didn't notice uneven illumination. I do have wicked eye strain, but I have that regardless of which screen I use.

goMac · May 8, 2007, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

2. Pitting of the aluminium around the wrist rest and button if you happen to have sweat at the "wrong" pH.

Still an issue.

nate_02 · May 8, 2007, 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by rehoot

I have a PB G4 and a Mac Pro with a new cinema screen. The PB G4 is very dim compared to the MBP and any other new screen. Have you ever compared them side-by-side? Maybe I saw an unusually good MBP screen or I am overly sensitive to the dimness issue and didn't notice uneven illumination. I do have wicked eye strain, but I have that regardless of which screen I use.

Yes, my PB G4 screen is dimmer than the new MBPs, and I would like to have a brighter screen, however the uneven illumination just bugs me to no end. It is possible you saw a MBP that doesn't have the uneven illuminatoin issue. I am curious to see the new LED backlit screens.

ajprice · May 8, 2007, 09:44 AM

Only issue I know of is the bulging batteries.

Subaru_Nation555 · May 8, 2007, 11:58 AM

I currently have a DP Quicksilver and a 12" PowerBook. I am planning on replacing both with a MBP sometime next year. It is nice having the laptop for portability and the desktop for speed (relatively) and expandability but coordinating files between the two, as SierraDragon mentioned, is a pain. If it were me I'd invest in one strong machine but wait for the next revision if you can.

Jim Paradise · May 8, 2007, 02:47 PM

Well, I'll wait a few weeks. I'm not to keen on having a MBP with a hinge or battery bulge, nor do I want to deal with screen problems or "pitting." File syncing won't be a problem for me if I do decide to go with two computers.

NeutrinoMan · May 8, 2007, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jim Paradise

Well, I'll wait a few weeks. I'm not to keen on having a MBP with a hinge or battery bulge, nor do I want to deal with screen problems or "pitting."

That's a good decision. After I bought a 15" MBP a couple of months ago and had to return it due to a bad screen, I got gunshy about ordering again, so I've gone an uncomfortably long time without a laptop. Perhaps a few weeks more might just do the trick:

MacBook Pro update planned for June with new display

The current MBPs are fine machines, but to say they are "excellent" is gratuitous gushing if you ask me. Bulging batteries, poor battery life, grainy and uneven screens do not make an excellent machine IMHO.

EndlessMac · May 8, 2007, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Subaru_Nation555

I am planning on replacing both with a MBP sometime next year. It is nice having the laptop for portability and the desktop for speed (relatively) and expandability but coordinating files between the two, as SierraDragon mentioned, is a pain. If it were me I'd invest in one strong machine but wait for the next revision if you can.

That is a good point. Coordinating my laptop and tower is definitely a pain. I don't think it's something I would want to do in the future any longer. I'll miss the faster speed of a tower but if I get the fastest apple laptop at the time it will serve my needs for several years.

I'm hoping that the new apple laptop screens are much better to look at. Every laptop screen I have every used (including PC laptops) aren't that great. Desktop CRT monitors are just so much more enjoyable to look at. I get less eye strain and more accurate colors with CRT monitors. I'm hoping that laptop screens will progress much further in a shorter time.

Aron Peterson · May 9, 2007, 08:50 AM

New MBPs should run at up to 2.6Ghz with 4MB cache. New MBs will have Intel GMA X3000.

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05...es_santa_rosa/

Simon · May 9, 2007, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

New MBPs should run at up to 2.6Ghz with 4MB cache. New MBs will have Intel GMA X3000.
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05...es_santa_rosa/

Your source mixed up the specs. The fastest Merom you can put on a SR board is the T7700, but it runs at 2.4 GHz.

Intel specifies the T7700 as a 2.4 GHz Merom CPU with 4 MB L2 cache. I have no idea where they got the 2.6 GHz number from. The X7800 is expected to run at 2.6 GHz, but it's a Merom XE and won't be for sale until late 2007.

mduell · May 9, 2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by Aron Peterson

New MBPs should run at up to 2.6Ghz with 4MB cache. New MBs will have Intel GMA X3000.
Intel 'Santa Rosa' blooms into Centrino Duo, Pro | Reg Hardware

And to continue the nitpicking on Aron Peterson, the MB graphics should be X3100 not X3000.

Aron Peterson · May 9, 2007, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

And to continue the nitpicking on Aron Peterson, the MB graphics should be X3100 not X3000.

Well, X3000 is the name of the series which includes the X3100. I read that it's still slower than the lowest end integrated solutions from Nvidia and ATI though. At least the X3000 series finally gives the MacBook proper T+L in hardware, 32 bit FPP, and Open GL 2.0 support. Clockspeeds start at 400Mhz for the low end model and rise to 667Mhz.

highstakes · May 9, 2007, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by ajprice

Only issue I know of is the bulging batteries.

Yeah, that and the cpu-idle noise, fan issue is what I've heard of so far.

Muffin · May 10, 2007, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by JKT

My AlBook is the second generation (out of the four Powerbook models).

Either they have improved things in the later model screens, or I have just been seriously unlucky. I have had three screens on my Powerbook now and all three have had uneven lighting. I also now have a scratch on my screen from the JKL keys (from the one and only time I forgot to use my screen protector, natch). It isn't visible during use unless the screen is dark but is very visible when the screen is off.

We have used a Shaggymac screen protector with our Rev A 12" PB and still have a perfect screen.