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chechare · Jan 19, 2002, 07:27 PM

i've seen the 12 inch ibook and the display is just amazing. I admit, it is rather small, but resolution is astounding and brightnes is par none. It's even better, by far, than the one in the upper level G4PB. But, i have not seen the 14' models. Are they the same as the 12 inch, or are they more common like the ones found in past PB, likw wallstreet, or pismo?
And is the new battery in the upper Ibook really that much a difference?

Justin W. Williams · Jan 19, 2002, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by chechare:
i've seen the 12 inch ibook and the display is just amazing. I admit, it is rather small, but resolution is astounding and brightnes is par none. It's even better, by far, than the one in the upper level G4PB. But, i have not seen the 14' models. Are they the same as the 12 inch, or are they more common like the ones found in past PB, likw wallstreet, or pismo?
And is the new battery in the upper Ibook really that much a difference?

I visited the CompUSA an hour away from my apartment this afternoon hoping to find a new iMac to play with, but I only found the new 14" iBook. I didn't like it. It defeats the whole idea of the iBook to me: portability. The thing is about the size of an average PC laptop. Screen seemed the same, and I didn't really look for anything about a battery.

Just my two cents. I would HIGHLY recommened you go look at a local store at the new 14" iBook to make your decision. I am glad I didn't get one. I love my 12"'s size

jwtseng · Jan 19, 2002, 09:36 PM

The 14.1 inch iBook is EXACTLY the same as the 12.1 inch Combo iBook as far as the motherboard is concerned. The only difference is an extra 128mb memory (filling up your ONLY RAM expansion slot) and the extra screen *size*. Even the resolution is the same at 1024*768, just on a bigger screen (fewer dpi). Oh, and it's $300 more. Worth it? It's your call, but I wouldn't touch it.

seanyepez · Jan 19, 2002, 09:40 PM

I like the 14-inch iBook. It has a nice screen. It's basically a Pismo without dual-battery capabilities and another 100 megahertz on the clock speed.

It's not for everyone. I, for one, would take the 14-inch iBook for additional screen real estate and the larger battery. Heat dissipation is also better.

unfaded · Jan 19, 2002, 11:01 PM

Christ, the 14" is ugly as sin. So much wasted space around the keyboard it's not eve funny.

Just look at the two side by side, that did it for me. I would never get a 14" iBook, even though I could very much use the extra space and want it badly.

seanyepez · Jan 19, 2002, 11:23 PM

I think the 14-inch iBook is a nice machine. The extra space around the keyboard looks good.

daimoni · 12:11 PM

.

vvedge · Jan 20, 2002, 01:18 AM

I didn't think Apple could ruin the iBook, but the 14 inch ibook comes very close...

I wouldn't pay 1799 for a combo when it came out...

Unless you're dying for the bigger screen, I dont see the market for this..

(though I did see someone walk out with one at my local Apple Store... I just stood there and laughed)

who knows... maybe this new form factor will allow a G4 in there someday...

chechare · Jan 20, 2002, 01:48 AM

ok, i've got an idea about what you guys think as far of design, size and weight. Now, how about the display quality? I know the 12' is awsome, very bright and very easy to see from the sides, way better than the BowerBook. What do you think of the 14's image quality, is it just as good as in the 12' ? By the way, i have no way of comparing the two personally. We don't have that many Apple suppliers in Mexico, and the only few don't have machines in stock.

chechare · Jan 20, 2002, 01:52 AM

and by the way, i Do like the extra real estate in the 14', even if it's at the same resolution. And i think my eyes would appreciate the extra size after a coupple hours of reading or working on it.

seanyepez · Jan 20, 2002, 02:03 AM

I think the 12-inch iBook is comfortable for casual use, but I wouldn't seriously use that display for longer than an hour. My eyes wouldn't be able to take it.

Image quality on the new iBooks leaves a lot to be desired. It's not quite as dense and detailed as the smaller ones. At the same resolution, you're not going to get any more desktop real estate (obviously), but your eyes are going to appreciate the larger display.

In terms of brightness, the new iBook's screen isn't as densely lit. It's still more comfortable, though.

jcadam · Jan 20, 2002, 03:03 AM

If you're willing to spend $1799 on an iBook, why not spend a few hundred more and get the 550mhz TiBook? It's screen is better than 14" iBook for sure (cool wide-aspect deal). Plus you get a G4 and Radeon graphics (if you do games, it's nice), the thing will have a longer life-span than an iBook for sure.

If you get an iBook, stick with the 12 incher, oh yea, and I wouldn't touch the 500mhz (66mhz bus) model with a 50 foot pole.

I use my 600mhz/12" iBook daily and I'd say that the LCD is easier on my eyes than my obscenely large 20" Apple Multiple Scan monitor sitting on my desktop (makes me want to upgrade that sucker to a new Apple LCD, after using the iBook screen, all CRTs seem fuzzy, argh).

unimacs · Jan 20, 2002, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by unfaded:
Christ, the 14" is ugly as sin. So much wasted space around the keyboard it's not eve funny.

Just look at the two side by side, that did it for me. I would never get a 14" iBook, even though I could very much use the extra space and want it badly.

It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks that. We have an older more colorful ibook and are in the market for a new laptop. While I was never that thrilled about the shape of the old ibook, both the new ibook and tibook I find to be rather straight, boxy and boring, especially when open. The 12" ibook is kind of cute and the tibook's wide screen grabs attention, but the 14" ibook, well, it looks like a giant wasteland around the keyboard. No color, no curves or nice lines, - just flat.

After spending an hour or two looking at Apple's new laptops at the Apple store, I think I'm going to miss our old key-lime one.

[ 01-21-2002: Message edited by: unimacs ]

iDaver · Jan 21, 2002, 01:03 AM

Get the 14" if your eyes are bad (everything will appear slightly larger) or if you have need of slightly longer battery life. Otherwise, it's identical to the 12" except for the price. Lots of folks in the forums had been pining for a larger iBook screen but since the 14" came out, I've seen very few positive comments. I looked at one at the Apple Store and have a neutral opinion; not too bad, not too good. Love my 12".

chechare · Jan 21, 2002, 02:08 AM

Most of you agree the 14' looks bad. the machine i mean. But how's the screen quality now compared with a TiBook, it must be kind of the same, isn't it? except for the side, of course

ramenite · Jan 21, 2002, 01:13 PM

I was debating myself on getting a 14" or a 12" iBook. I decided on the 12"

You aren't really going to get more room on the 14" screen, everything is just going to look bigger. Not to mention that the bigger battery is just there to power the screen. Depending on what you are doing, you MAY see a little longer battery life. It does have a faster combo drive, but I've had a 4x burner for years now, and the speed has never bohtered me. As far as the extra ram goes, that extra 128 takes up the other slot. You can upgrade to 384 for $50. On the other had, Crucial has a 256 meg stick for $71.

I got the 600mhz 12" iBook, and ordered a 256 meg stick though crucial.com. paid just over $1,500 for the setup(educational discount with Apple) And the smaller form factor should let me toss it in my backpack and forget about it. If I need to be on it for a while at home, that's what the vga output is for :-) I already have a usb keyboard and mouse.

I think the hardest part now is waiting for it to get here (darn 7 day wait for it to ship)

mgl · Jan 21, 2002, 01:30 PM

The 14" iBook is the Dell Latitude of Apple laptops. That is, it's the same size and weight of a standard corporate laptop. The wonderful size of the iBook is gone without adding the power of the PowerBook.

The main reason to get the 14" iBook is if your eyes won't allow you to use a 12" iBook. Not everybody can live with a small screen, and for those people, the choices are to run a 12" iBook at 800x600, to buy the 14" iBook, or to buy a PowerBook. The PowerBook isn't much more than a 14" iBook but not everbody can afford it so the 14" iBook does have a niche to fill. However, if my eyes couldn't stand 1024x768 on a 12" iBook, I'd rather run it at 800x600 than get a 14" iBook. 800x600 looks pretty decent on a 12" iBook. Try it before you make your decision.

Arkham_c · Jan 21, 2002, 03:01 PM

Originally posted by mgl:
However, if my eyes couldn't stand 1024x768 on a 12" iBook, I'd rather run it at 800x600 than get a 14" iBook. 800x600 looks pretty decent on a 12" iBook. Try it before you make your decision.

I switched my iBook to 800x600 to test this. The image is VERY blurry in comparison to the sharp 1024x768 picture. If I had to run like that all day, I would never have bought my iBook.

If you can't run on a 12" and you can't afford the G4 laptop, the 14" ibook may make sense. I think with OSX's ability to scale text and icons so smoothly, you can always make it suit your needs.

vanguard · Jan 21, 2002, 05:40 PM

Almost everybody seems to agree that the 14" is not a nice machine. That's pretty surprising to me. I have a 12" icebook and I love it. However, if there is one compliant that I have it would be the screen size.

My computer is named eyechart.

Nawus · Jan 21, 2002, 10:26 PM

After seeing the 14", boy am I glad I got the 12"!
The form factor just isn't there when the 12" is so comfortable to carry around. I would have paid a little more for a Tibook than get a 14: ibook. JMO.

seanyepez · Jan 22, 2002, 02:21 AM

The larger notebook isn't meant to retain the iBook's status as a subnotebook; the smaller one is.

molala · Jan 22, 2002, 05:12 AM

i thought the 14" iBook looked ok, i actually liked all that smooth space around the keyboard. but it's just not cute, which is exactly what the 12" iBook is, and that's important. plus the 1 lb. difference is really noticeable. i liked both their screens, they were both bright (brighter than a Pismo anyway).

Krusty · Jan 22, 2002, 10:40 PM

No opinion on which is "better" since I've never seen the 14 in person. Just wanted to add that besides the screen and battery life -- the 14 combo drive has a faster burner than the one in the 12.
12 = 4x4x6
14=8x8x8
While its no gain in functionality, 4x to 8x is one of the more important speed jumps for burning CDs -- from "glacially slow" to "tolerable".
I for one am a bit disappointed in both models. I was really dreaming of a 13.0 in the same form factor as the 12.1 -- all the portability with a 15% larger screen at the same rez. Alas, I'm apparently not in Apple target demographic (at least for portables).

JeffZPgh · Jan 23, 2002, 12:23 AM

Finally played with a 14" tonight at the local CompUSA - I can't believe how crappy it is. The screen literally just looks magnified - and is blurrier. I agree with the comments about all the empty space looking ridiculous. It reminds me of a light gray Toshiba laptop from 7 years ago, just less thick. Fugly.

And the 500-600 speed bump must have really just been a baby step. I didn't notice much difference at all between my 500 and this new CPU/bus configuration. They can keep them.

Jeff

graffix · Jan 23, 2002, 01:21 AM

And the 500-600 speed bump must have really just been a baby step. I didn't notice much difference at all between my 500 and this new CPU/bus configuration. They can keep them.

I agree... I bought the 500/combo the day after they were announced, and one of my buddies recently bought the 600/combo. I was amazed that perceptually, both computers responded pretty much the same.
I think the main benefit to the faster processor/bus is if you're more into playing games/rendering movies where moving a lot of data across the bus is the bottleneck.
My buddy kept trying to prove to me his iBook was faster in some respects, but only by a couple of seconds most of the time.
I run OSX 10.1 also, and it runs really nice... at least as good as my 9500 with G3/400 upgrade runs OS9.1. I'm happy with that.
Cheers
g.

AIOg3guy · Jan 23, 2002, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by graffix:

I agree... I bought the 500/combo the day after they were announced, and one of my buddies recently bought the 600/combo. I was amazed that perceptually, both computers responded pretty much the same.
I think the main benefit to the faster processor/bus is if you're more into playing games/rendering movies where moving a lot of data across the bus is the bottleneck.
My buddy kept trying to prove to me his iBook was faster in some respects, but only by a couple of seconds most of the time.
I run OSX 10.1 also, and it runs really nice... at least as good as my 9500 with G3/400 upgrade runs OS9.1. I'm happy with that.
Cheers
g.

Sadly, the bottleneck for OS X isn't the processor, its really Apple's inability to move certain tasks to the video card. Pretty much all g3's are going to run OS X about the same. I would say my 600 mhz iBook is only about 10-15% faster than my 333mhz AIO g3. I was expecting more of a speed jump. I don't believe that 500mhz vs. 600mhz is even detectable for 9 out of 10 users.

If and when Apple gets its act together and fixes the load that graphics put on the CPU, you'll probably see more of a difference in G3 performance per MHZ.

Of course, OS 9 is lightning fast on anything greater than a speedy 603, so that doesn't even factor in.

-Aiog3guy

WinnerMac · Jan 23, 2002, 02:32 AM

I agree! 12" is better in term of portability, cost, and quality of resolution. Besides if u need a bigger lcd, u can always buy an external lcd i.e. 15 or 17" if u need it bigger to use at home or office since ibook comes w/ video port. External Lcd prices will certainly come down in prices in the near future.

Michael T. Doyle · Jan 23, 2002, 05:14 PM

My 12" just barely fits comfortably on my tray table on an airplane when I go mobile. I'd doubt the 14" would fit as well (my Wall Street and Pismo never did).

mike one · Jan 23, 2002, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by AIOg3guy:


Sadly, the bottleneck for OS X isn't the processor, its really Apple's inability to move certain tasks to the video card. Pretty much all g3's are going to run OS X about the same. I would say my 600 mhz iBook is only about 10-15% faster than my 333mhz AIO g3. I was expecting more of a speed jump. I don't believe that 500mhz vs. 600mhz is even detectable for 9 out of 10 users.

Of course, OS 9 is lightning fast on anything greater than a speedy 603, so that doesn't even factor in.

-Aiog3guy

i'd have to agree. my g3 350 and ibook 600 with 256 / 384 MB respectively feel about the same in OSX.

OS9 is a rocket on the ibook, that is why it is my primary OS.

"back to the lecture at hand:"

i'd go with the 12" over the 14" anyday.
i sat at my ibook for about the past 3-4 hours typing up slides for a meeting this afternoon, and my eyes don't feel anything but joy.

Oink · Jan 24, 2002, 12:19 AM

Originally posted by WinnerMac:
I agree! 12" is better in term of portability, cost, and quality of resolution. Besides if u need a bigger lcd, u can always buy an external lcd i.e. 15 or 17" if u need it bigger to use at home or office since ibook comes w/ video port. External Lcd prices will certainly come down in prices in the near future.

External LCD? I thought the iBooks only had RGB out, not VGA. I may be selling my Ti400 and contemplating either 2 iBook 600, 12" or the 550 Ti...

Oink · Jan 24, 2002, 12:35 AM

Just checked the specs. iBooks do have vga ports, for mirroring only, not for dual displays. Please disregard my previous post.

zigzag · Jan 25, 2002, 07:36 PM

I think what chechare wants to know is, apart from the form factor, how do the screens compare in terms of image quality, i.e. brightness, sharpness, etc?

I haven't compared them directly, so I'm just guessing, but I would expect that the 14" would be less sharp and more grainy, since it has the same resolution at a larger size, like a blown-up photo. But then, if each pixel on the 14" is correspondingly larger, that theory goes out the window. Anyone know the answer to this?

As for form factor, I agree that the main attraction of the iBook is its compactness and I don't see much demand for the 14". If I wanted a larger screen, I'd spend the extra $$ and get a TiBook, which is lighter and has a G4 among other things. But maybe chechare prefers a lower resolution on a bigger screen for his eyesight.