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Mac OS X 11
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HamSandwich
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Dec 1, 2014, 01:50 PM
 
Howdy!

Any news yet? What to expect? What do you really want? What can be changed? More colorful? I find the colors in Yosemite a bit more European (I always thought OS X design was rather American instead of European, now trying to bridge the difference).

Anything else? I don't get so much the point of Yosemite. Is there a difference... I like the colors!

PeterParker
     
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Dec 1, 2014, 02:57 PM
 
Perennial favorite: new file system. More likely: refactoring some old libraries in Swift for improved performance and security. Appearance is a fool's game to guess, but from experience they will tone down the current one a bit, as that is what they usually do after a big change.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
ibook_steve
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Dec 1, 2014, 06:30 PM
 
What are "American" colors vs. "European" colors?

Steve
Celebrating 10 years and 4000 posts on MacNN!
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 1, 2014, 11:47 PM
 
@Steve
European colors have health insurance.

I'm more concerned about changes under the hood, because apart from slow and steady tweaks, the visual design seems to have a good basis. (It's a bit too clinical and not whimsical enough for me, but ok.) New filesystem: check. Apple tackled a big problem with Swift, and I expect a long, gentle migration over the next 5-10 years. I think Apple should also invest more time in improving stability (which seems antithetical to migrating all APIs and exchanging the file system). Apart from that, I feel a little as if Apple should focus more on making good apps, e. g. the early iLife apps were lighthouse apps, reasons to buy a Mac. I don't feel that this is the case right now.
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Ham Sandwich
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Dec 2, 2014, 11:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by PeterParker View Post
Any news yet? What to expect? What do you really want?
An operating system with all of my bug fix requests fulfilled.

(Disclaimer: The above message was intended to be sent with size 96 text, a bold, thick font, and lots of exclamation marks.)
     
ghporter
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Dec 2, 2014, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@Steve
European colors have health insurance.
Favorite. Reply. EVER!

Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
     
cgc
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Dec 2, 2014, 10:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@Steve
European colors have health insurance.
Yet they wait in lines for medical treatment...
Originally Posted by OreoCookie View Post
@Steve
I'm more concerned about changes under the hood, because apart from slow and steady tweaks, the visual design seems to have a good basis. (It's a bit too clinical and not whimsical enough for me, but ok.) New filesystem: check. Apple tackled a big problem with Swift, and I expect a long, gentle migration over the next 5-10 years. I think Apple should also invest more time in improving stability (which seems antithetical to migrating all APIs and exchanging the file system). Apart from that, I feel a little as if Apple should focus more on making good apps, e. g. the early iLife apps were lighthouse apps, reasons to buy a Mac. I don't feel that this is the case right now.
I wish Apple would focus on eliminating bugs but that's hard to sell as reliability doesn't get lauded until a release has been out in the wild for some time...not sexy enough, unfortunately.
"Like a midget at a urinal, I was going to have to stay on my toes." Frank Drebin, Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult
     
OreoCookie
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Dec 3, 2014, 10:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by cgc View Post
Yet they wait in lines for medical treatment...
… if they are British colours, then yes, but German Farben don't have to wait in lines.
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Spheric Harlot
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Dec 3, 2014, 04:01 PM
 
Except in the emergency room on weekends (unless it's serious), or at the pediatrician during cold season. Last time I was a medical emergency, it was late at night, and I was tended to within minutes.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 5, 2014, 01:13 PM
 
I'd really like to see touch added so we can have an iPad Air like machine that will run OS X and include USB and mouse. I think Apple could completely take over all sales of the Surface Pro if they did this.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 5, 2014, 03:13 PM
 
I'm pretty sure that Apple's LEAST worry is taking over all sales (WHAT sales?) of the Surface Pro.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 5, 2014, 05:38 PM
 
Sure, it isn't of great concern to Apple but…

I bought a Lenovo Thinkpad 8 about 6 months ago and really love the device--overall probably just as much as my iPad. It is an 8" screen full computer that does everything that a full desktop computer does, and does it very well, and morphs almost seamlessly from handheld computer to a desktop computer. But it has some annoyances and quirks, some due to Windows 8, others to the implementation. I continually wish that Apple had done the same thing exactly (and not a 10" or bigger version but a 1920x1080, 8" version). Apple would have done it right.

Apple saw that others completely dropped the ball on MP3 players, smartphones and tablets, did each of these right and made huge new markets. Again others have dropped the ball on 8" full computers and I think this is another market that Apple could own to huge success and profit.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 5, 2014, 06:08 PM
 
They did. That's why the iPad exists.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 5, 2014, 06:27 PM
 
They didn't. That's why iOs and Mac OS X are so completely different.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 5, 2014, 06:40 PM
 
They swooped in and fixed tablet computing.

That's why iOS and OS X are so completely different.

Windows 8 didn't fix anything except marketing, and broke both tablet and desktop interfaces in the process.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 5, 2014, 06:45 PM
 
They swooped in and fixed tablet computing for some users. But the iPad still is not really tablet "full computing" but tablet "partial computing."
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 5, 2014, 07:08 PM
 
And that was the revelation.

The iOS approach makes a great experience for almost everybody who needs/wants a tablet (and only those), and the OS X approach makes a great experience for almost everybody who needs/wants a traditional computer (and only those).

The hybrid approach makes a shitty experience for everybody.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 5, 2014, 07:17 PM
 
By saying that "the hybrid approach makes a shitty experience for everybody" you've proven my point. There is a very lucrative market for Apple in doing the hybrid approach well.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 5, 2014, 08:25 PM
 
I'm saying that Apple have a market because they DON'T do a hybrid approach.

Look, this has been argued a thousand times to hell and back:

Apple are keeping the platforms separate because they think that fusing them results in a worse experience for both sides, rather than an improvement for both. They're not about compromise: if it's not a BETTER solution, they won't do it. They've been extremely clear about it, and everything they've done in the past few years (especially with iOS 8 and Yosemite) drives the point home and makes it clearer.

It may be that you think this could work, and maybe somebody, some day, will make a solution that will satisfy you. Right now, the only people trying it are Microsoft (and they've failed to the point where they're rolling back everything "hybrid" about their approach as fast as their pedals will run backwards), and it ain't gonna be Apple that build your box.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 5, 2014, 09:27 PM
 
OK, I'll make a prediction--Apple will build and begin selling just such a "box" in less than a year (maybe even the next few months). Here's what I think:

Let's call this totally new type of computer the xPad (see note below as to why this would be a great name). It will be about the size of the iPad mini but the shape of the iPhone 6 plus. It will run OS X and have an onscreen mousepad (which you can use or not, depending on the application). It will connect seamlessly to your iPhone (already partially implemented in Yosemite) but with an iPhone 6 plus and an xPad working together, each become much more powerful (computingwise). When you walk into your office your Apple physical keyboard, Apple physical mouse and Apple 4K monitor will seamlessly connect to the xPad (all proprietary, no other brands of peripherals will work). You can be in a meeting with just your xPad, start a sentence in a document and finish the sentence on the keyboard and monitor in your office without doing anything. Go home and do the same thing, never turning the xPad off.

This is exactly the kind of computing experience that business is right now desperate for and will pay big bucks for. The xPad will be, by far, the most profitable product in Apple history. It will be the thing that finally and completely relegates Windows and desktop computers to a tiny niche market. Apple will be worth twice the market cap that it is today and, within 18 months, Microsoft will be on the verge of extinction. Your statement that Microsoft is rolling back everything "hybrid" is proof that this will happen. The name xPad would be perfect because it would create a bond between Microsoft's last really successful business product, Windows XP, and the xPad (as well as the link to OS X).

I may be completely off but I don't think so, this market is just too lucrative for Apple to pass up. If I am completely wrong, please start a thread about this time next year titled "WizOSX was way off" ha, ha.
     
sdp4462
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Dec 5, 2014, 11:37 PM
 
If all they did was return full RSS support as they had in Safari 5.1.7 and Mac os 10.7.5, I would be both grateful and ecstatic.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 6, 2014, 03:58 AM
 
RSS support is back in Safari in Yosemite.
     
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Dec 6, 2014, 09:47 PM
 
Laptops with touchscreens are completely dead, according to Digitimes. Yes, it's paywalled now, but google around and you can find enough of it quoted. No manufacturer is currently working on any new traditional laptops with touchscreens, as consumers have shown that they absolutely don't want them. There is some work being done on completely reversible flip models, but those are effectively tablets with a loose keyboard. MS is walking back from the Windows 8 changes in Windows 10.

Outcompete the Surface? All Apple has to do for that is release a first party keyboard case. Not that they need to - there are enough third party available - but Apple makes great hardware, so maybe. You may be thinking of the Surface Pro, but that is the category that is completely dying.

Originally Posted by WizOSX
Let's call this totally new type of computer the xPad (see note below as to why this would be a great name). It will be about the size of the iPad mini but the shape of the iPhone 6 plus.
What does this mean - an iPad mini with a 16:9 display?

Originally Posted by WizOSX
It will run OS X and have an onscreen mousepad (which you can use or not, depending on the application). It will connect seamlessly to your iPhone (already partially implemented in Yosemite) but with an iPhone 6 plus and an xPad working together, each become much more powerful (computingwise)
So a computer that is powerful enough to run OS X well - which means at least the power of a 2011 Macbook Air or so, and at the very least 4 gigs of RAM - is going to be noticeably faster by adding a wireless connection to an iPhone? Not even considering what ISA it will use, just plain speed of light is going to make that not feasible. A modern CPU sends signal across wires that are millimeters long, and you plan to send it wirelessly to something meters away and it will somehow be faster?

Originally Posted by WizOSX
When you walk into your office your Apple physical keyboard, Apple physical mouse and Apple 4K monitor will seamlessly connect to the xPad (all proprietary, no other brands of peripherals will work).
Apple's keyboards do that today - Bluetooth. So does any other Bluetooth keyboard. Wireless displays are so-so because of the lag, but you CAN do it with an Apple TV if the app supports it, so Apple could just add the support to the OS if they wanted to. If you want a mouse for some reason, it would be trivial to add.

Originally Posted by WizOSX
You can be in a meeting with just your xPad, start a sentence in a document and finish the sentence on the keyboard and monitor in your office without doing anything. Go home and do the same thing, never turning the xPad off.
This is pretty much exactly what handoff is. All you've done is move it to a single device, where every application suddenly has to have two interfaces.

Originally Posted by WizOSX
This is exactly the kind of computing experience that business is right now desperate for and will pay big bucks for.
So why don't they all buy Surface Pros for everyone? That would at least be close to this thing you're speaking of. The main use case you've pointed out - that you can continue your writing on the big keyboard - is covered by Handoff in Yosemite.

Originally Posted by WizOSX
The xPad will be, by far, the most profitable product in Apple history.
Because making big profits off of sales to the enterprise usually works so well. Also, how? Because it costs less to make that today's laptops? Hardly. So it would have to sell for more. Do you really think that businesses will pay more for a feature they can already get in Yosemite, and which isn't all that impressive to begin with.

I'm stopping here, because the one and only thing you've mentioned as a feature is that you can continue on something you began writing on an iPad, something you can do today on Yosemite, and the only real advantage over a laptop is that it is smaller to carry around. An 11" MBA isn't exactly bulky.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 7, 2014, 06:58 AM
 
Nice summary there.

I'll just add that there is no need for an app to support the external monitor: iOS has supported global monitor mirroring via AirPlay for years now.

Just select it, and everything you do is shown on the AppleTV-connected display.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 7, 2014, 07:06 AM
 
Originally Posted by WizOSX View Post
I may be completely off but I don't think so, this market is just too lucrative for Apple to pass up. If I am completely wrong, please start a thread about this time next year titled "WizOSX was way off" ha, ha.
No need.

Your predictions are the same that people have been making for years, and with most vehemence since Windows 8 was previewed, and threads telling these folks that they were way off have been regular fixtures on all major Internet forums since then.

The complete flop of Microsoft 's Surface, and their total back-pedalling in Windows 10 should have finally put those voices to rest...yet here you are.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 7, 2014, 11:09 AM
 
I completely agree with the comments saying that everything needed for my "perfect business oriented hand-held Apple computer" are really all here now. Apple just needs to bundle them into exactly the right package--which is what they do so well. Over the last few weeks I've observed people I know who attend lots of administrative meetings deciding that the iPhone 6 plus is the "almost perfect" device for most of their computing needs. They love the 16:9 display (moreso than the iPad dimensions, which they are using now). They are perfectly willing to pay over $1000 for this device on which Apple makes about $500--more profitable than any laptop. They never want to carry a laptop into a meeting again and especially not anything like a Surface. They seem to have just two major wishes concerning the iPhone 6 plus--that it was maybe 5% bigger in height and width and that it could somehow do some "real" computing (document and/or spreadsheet) easily when necessary.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Dec 7, 2014, 04:41 PM
 
So, an iPad mini running iWork and/or Microsoft Office?

Done.
     
WizOSX
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Dec 7, 2014, 05:43 PM
 
….....................
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot
So, an iPad mini running iWork and/or Microsoft Office?

Done.
Yes, you're right, it is quite close to what I'm talking about. To be closer to what I'm talking about it would have to be slightly smaller and in a 16:9 shape--i.e. halfway between the iPhone 6 plus and the iPad mini and be able to do phone stuff. The biggest remaining problem for me, and those friends in administration whom I was referring to, is that document creation is still awkward and not terribly effective in iOs. Microsoft Office on iPad is a huge improvement over iWork in that regard. There are specific things that Apple could do in iOs 9 to really help on this issue.

However, I don't want to hijack this thread any more than I already have. It is a thread about OS X, not iOs. I would like to discuss how Apple could improve document creation on iPad/iPhone and also discuss some of the points that P raised. For example, I've just given up on Bluetooth keyboards on my iOs devices, I don't think it really does what I was suggesting very well in the office context. I don't know if anyone here would be interested in contributing to discussions about fixing the shortcomings of iOs in these regards? If so, I could start a couple of threads elsewhere.

So, I take back my original point about wanting touch in OS X 11 in the hope that maybe, someday, iOs will be improved enough to let me use it and cease using OS X--after 30+ years and counting.
( Last edited by WizOSX; Dec 7, 2014 at 06:14 PM. Reason: clarity)
     
Ham Sandwich
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Dec 7, 2014, 05:49 PM
 
If the day comes that a $600 iPad+4G can code in LaTeX as quick as on a Mac, run all my R and unix scripts, develop software with the command line tools, and run my email client for work, with a slightly bigger screen, then I'll be set. Those are my absolute needs, and even the top of the line iPad doesn't do it for me, so I'll have to agree with Spheric on this one.
     
Sabrino190
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Dec 9, 2014, 11:51 PM
 
I'd really like to carcasa galaxy s5 see touch added so we can have an iPad mini like machine that will run OS X and include USB carcasa piel galaxy s5 and mouse.
( Last edited by Sabrino190; Dec 25, 2014 at 10:04 PM. )
     
   
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